Question on shaft that came on my fitted irons.

[MFSOT]

I was fitted for T200s recently, just picked them up and was a little confused to see TT XP95’s S flex on them. During the same fitting I was fitted for a Epic Max LS with Mitsubishi MMT 60 S. The fitter did say that my driver swing speed was way faster compared to my irons from what he normally sees with my driver speed 105+. Curious thoughts on this combo, and if anyone else has a similar set up. I’m a big guy 6’5 240lbs, I’m not sure if I’m just in my head about lighter shafts, I certainly don’t care if I hit them good.

Admittedly this was my first fitting in 20 years, I wasn’t getting the data from the fitter, he just kept handing me different lengths/shafts. So I’m assuming this is what we ended up with for my fitting. Hindsight I know I should have been asking which shaft, etc.. but that ship has sailed, just wondering if this sounds on the up and up to those that know gear.

This was at a retailer, they’re local so I want to know if I can trust them going forward, as I’d probably stop into them first due to proximity.

I have a fitting set up with Club Champion to get a second opinion and feel better about knowing I was fit properly.

[cnosil]

Read this:  https://pluggedingolf.com/there-is-no-perfect-fit/

You went to a fitting and the fitter put you in clubs that he felt worked best for you.  Just because they aren't what you think you should have doesn't mean it is wrong.   I don't see anything wrong with the combo but you haven't provided any numbers from your fitting. 

 You mentioned that you were fit at a "retailer";  that could be lots of things as Club Champion is a retailer as is Dick Sporting Goods. 

 

 

 

[MFSOT]

53 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Read this:  https://pluggedingolf.com/there-is-no-perfect-fit/

You went to a fitting and the fitter put you in clubs that he felt worked best for you.  Just because they aren't what you think you should have doesn't mean it is wrong.   I don't see anything wrong with the combo but you haven't provided any numbers from your fitting. 

 You mentioned that you were fit at a "retailer";  that could be lots of things as Club Champion is a retailer as is Dick Sporting Goods. 

 

 

 

I wasn’t really given numbers except my driver swing speed, again, admittedly that’s my fault ultimately for not asking, but also feel the fitter should’ve gone over that stuff with me after. I don’t have an idea of what I ‘should’ be in, last fitting in 03/04 I was put into TT DG S300s, doesn’t mean that’s what I should be in now, I get it, just wanted to get some opinions on if that iron/driver combo sounded off.

[MFSOT]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

Read this:  https://pluggedingolf.com/there-is-no-perfect-fit/

Good read, thank you.

Edited April 27, 2021 by MFSOT

[Pkc]

20 hours ago, MFSOT said:

I was fitted for T200s recently, just picked them up and was a little confused to see TT XP95’s S flex on them. During the same fitting I was fitted for a Epic Max LS with Mitsubishi MMT 60 S. The fitter did say that my driver swing speed was way faster compared to my irons from what he normally sees with my driver speed 105+. Curious thoughts on this combo, and if anyone else has a similar set up. I’m a big guy 6’5 240lbs, I’m not sure if I’m just in my head about lighter shafts, I certainly don’t care if I hit them good.

Admittedly this was my first fitting in 20 years, I wasn’t getting the data from the fitter, he just kept handing me different lengths/shafts. So I’m assuming this is what we ended up with for my fitting. Hindsight I know I should have been asking which shaft, etc.. but that ship has sailed, just wondering if this sounds on the up and up to those that know gear.

This was at a retailer, they’re local so I want to know if I can trust them going forward, as I’d probably stop into them first due to proximity.

I have a fitting set up with Club Champion to get a second opinion and feel better about knowing I was fit properly.

I’m also 6’4” but 185lbs.  I don’t think the shaft necessarily is wrong just because of your driver shaft.  Some people swing lighter weight shafts better and others heavier.  If you feel unsure I’d definitely get a second opinion, hopefully they put you in a 1/2” long shaft and had you hit on a strike plate or sticker to see if you’re also upright.  I’m typically with most brands, but brands do vary, my norm is 1 degree upright and 1/2” longer shafts with midsize grips for my larger hands.  I personally prefer d4 to d5 weight combo for my 4 iron to wedges, with a minimum of a 120 grams shaft, current are KBS tour V tour spec S+, 125 grams.  But my swing speed for 6 iron was 91 mph average, driver is usually 110 or just over.  I’ve always had a good experience with club Champion employees knowing how to fit.  Just don’t go in expecting a miracle, I usually look for the shaft/head combo with the best dispersion and then look at distance from there.  For myself I like to see a spin rate of 5,900-6,300, peak height around 90-105 feet and a decent angle around 49%, Club Champion uses a 6 iron to fit, good luck.  

[MFSOT]

9 minutes ago, Pkc said:

I’m also 6’4” but 185lbs.  I don’t think the shaft necessarily is wrong just because of your driver shaft.  Some people swing lighter weight shafts better and others heavier.  If you feel unsure I’d definitely get a second opinion, hopefully they put you in a 1/2” long shaft and had you hit on a strike plate or sticker to see if you’re also upright.  I’m typically with most brands, but brands do vary, my norm is 1 degree upright and 1/2” longer shafts with midsize grips for my larger hands.  I personally prefer d4 to d5 weight combo for my 4 iron to wedges, with a minimum of a 120 grams shaft, current are KBS tour V tour spec S+, 125 grams.  But my swing speed for 6 iron was 91 mph average, driver is usually 110 or just over.  I’ve always had a good experience with club Champion employees knowing how to fit.  Just don’t go in expecting a miracle, I usually look for the shaft/head combo with the best dispersion and then look at distance from there.  For myself I like to see a spin rate of 5,900-6,300, peak height around 90-105 feet and a decent angle around 49%, Club Champion uses a 6 iron to fit, good luck.  

Ya, this is part of why I’m suspect, not strike plate or sticker, the fitting just felt off in hindsight. I still haven’t even unwrapped the clubs and am thinking about just returning them - what are the chances that CC fits the exact same? It’d be pretty funny if they did, but I doubt it. The CC fitting is definitely for peace of mind, this was my first fitting in 20 years and I just kinda went with the flow, but realized afterwards some things felt off.

I basically had to push him towards the T200 to try, because they were most similar to my old irons 704CBs. He kept trying to push me towards something he had in stock, a cobra major GI iron, because I was hitting the 7i 200+.. I was like dude I don’t want to hit my 7i that far. Also didn’t compare the T200s properly to other players irons which is more my style and suits my game better than a major GI.  So again, hindsight, I probably didn’t get the best fitting

EDIT* I did end up with +1/2, but standard lie, which I asked about and they just said I could have them bent if I’m not hitting them good. Titelist does seem to be a little more up than most, but still I would’ve thought a 1up as well.

Edited April 27, 2021 by MFSOT

[jddaigneault]

4 minutes ago, MFSOT said:

Ya, this is part of why I’m suspect, not strike plate or sticker, the fitting just felt off in hindsight. I still haven’t even unwrapped the clubs and am thinking about just returning them - what are the chances that CC fits the exact same? It’d be pretty funny if they did, but I doubt it. The CC fitting is definitely for peace of mind, this was my first fitting in 20 years and I just kinda went with the flow, but realized afterwards some things felt off.

I basically had to push him towards the T200 to try, because they were most similar to my old irons 704CBs. He kept trying to push me towards something he had in stock, a cobra major GI iron, because I was hitting the 7i 200+.. I was like dude I don’t want to hit my 7i that far. Also didn’t compare the T200s properly to other players irons which is more my style and suits my game better than a major GI.  So again, hindsight, I probably didn’t get the best fitting

EDIT* I did end up with +1/2, but standard lie, which I asked about and they just said I could have them bent if I’m not hitting them good. Titelist does seem to be a little more up than most, but still I would’ve thought a 1up as well.

I would say that if you decide to get another fitting you want to make sure you're getting a lot of data, asking a TON of questions, and giving input. He may have been pushing you towards a GI iron because your dispersion was all over the place, and the T200s would be harder to control. Hard to know without getting clarification. I would imagine some people are perfectly happy to go in, get handed clubs, hit them, say cool and walk out with them without a second thought. 

If you are someone who wants to dig into the data and be a bit more of a club junkie and really know your stuff, I would recommend going somewhere like club champion where you know you are working with a trained fitter. Just know they are 100% going to try and fit you into some silly upcharge shaft combinations. 

Is your tempo slow and smooth, or fast and aggressive? If you are a smooth swinger, than the light shaft is likely a good fit. 

[MFSOT]

9 minutes ago, jddaigneault said:

I would say that if you decide to get another fitting you want to make sure you're getting a lot of data, asking a TON of questions, and giving input. He may have been pushing you towards a GI iron because your dispersion was all over the place, and the T200s would be harder to control. Hard to know without getting clarification. I would imagine some people are perfectly happy to go in, get handed clubs, hit them, say cool and walk out with them without a second thought. 

If you are someone who wants to dig into the data and be a bit more of a club junkie and really know your stuff, I would recommend going somewhere like club champion where you know you are working with a trained fitter. Just know they are 100% going to try and fit you into some silly upcharge shaft combinations. 

Is your tempo slow and smooth, or fast and aggressive? If you are a smooth swinger, than the light shaft is likely a good fit. 

I’m definitely a data junky, and I’m mad at myself for not asking more, but was just concentrating on hitting. I will definitely ask more questions. As to the Dispersion, the T200s had the tightest dispersion by far, tight dispersion with a little fade, about 170-180 which is right where I want my 7i, in the end he agreed with me, but it took me pushing him that direction. He kept coming back to the distance of the GIs and saying I’d figure out how to get them under control when I got used to them. The GIs, I was all over the place with, I know that seems odd, but I hated the feel, I was left, right, straight, it was a mess. 

I’m more of a smooth swinger with irons, yes.

[Pkc]

29 minutes ago, MFSOT said:

I’m definitely a data junky, and I’m mad at myself for not asking more, but was just concentrating on hitting. I will definitely ask more questions. As to the Dispersion, the T200s had the tightest dispersion by far, tight dispersion with a little fade, about 170-180 which is right where I want my 7i, in the end he agreed with me, but it took me pushing him that direction. He kept coming back to the distance of the GIs and saying I’d figure out how to get them under control when I got used to them. The GIs, I was all over the place with, I know that seems odd, but I hated the feel, I was left, right, straight, it was a mess. 

I’m more of a smooth swinger with irons, yes.

That’s pretty good distance from a 7 iron, was that carry or overall?  I carry my 6 iron, 181 yards with 91mph swing speed, tour average for a 6 iron is 185 range with 93-94 mph swing speed.  My 7 iron carry is 172 with a 90-91 mph swing speed.  And I use S+ or X shafts in most of my clubs.  I know the loft is stronger on your 7 iron verse my 7 iron since I play ZX7’s and the t200’s are 2 degrees stronger but still I would presume your swing speed would be near 90 mph if that’s carry distance and not overall.  If it’s overall, doesn’t mean much, their could be a lot of roll involved with low spin numbers or low landing angle, too many variables.  Trackman posts it’s pga tour stats if you want a reference for number before you go in for a fitting.  Just don’t expect a fitter to magically make a club that gives you those numbers.  

[MFSOT]

9 minutes ago, Pkc said:

That’s pretty good distance from a 7 iron, was that carry or overall?  I carry my 6 iron, 181 yards with 91mph swing speed, tour average for a 6 iron is 185 range with 93-94 mph swing speed.  My 7 iron carry is 172 with a 90-91 mph swing speed.  And I use S+ or X shafts in most of my clubs.  I know the loft is stronger on your 7 iron verse my 7 iron since I play ZX7’s and the t200’s are 2 degrees stronger but still I would presume your swing speed would be near 90 mph if that’s carry distance and not overall.  If it’s overall, doesn’t mean much, their could be a lot of roll involved with low spin numbers or low landing angle, too many variables.  Trackman posts it’s pga tour stats if you want a reference for number before you go in for a fitting.  Just don’t expect a fitter to magically make a club that gives you those numbers.  

That was carry, it’s been a month or so now so my memory is a bit fuzzy, I’d say the majority were right in that range. I play my 20 year old 704CBs 7i 165-170, 6 175-180, so presumably the tech in the T200s gave me that bump. I’m generally a fairly long hitter, which coming back to my original question, it seemed odd to get such a light shaft. Unfortunately I don’t have the data, so I’m just throwing out guesses now. CC will give me all the data I need and I’ll feel comfortable after that fitting. 

I’m not expecting magic from a fitter, but I do think it’s reasonable to expect my 7i to stay in the 165-175 range coming from 20 yr old irons, if not go up a bit, which is fine, I guess my larger point was the fitter was freaking out about the GIs 7i going 200+ sometimes 210 and I thought that was insane, where’s that leave my PW/GW and my gaps? I mean I suppose I could just take the other woods out of my bag except D at that point and have a bunch of wedges ha.. Really though I’m a feel player, I can’t feel the ball on the face of the GIs, I hate the toplines, and I hit them worse, so it was just a non starter for me.

I’ll definitely reference the trackman stats, thank you, I wasn’t aware of that.

[Pkc]

1 hour ago, MFSOT said:

That was carry, it’s been a month or so now so my memory is a bit fuzzy, I’d say the majority were right in that range. I play my 20 year old 704CBs 7i 165-170, 6 175-180, so presumably the tech in the T200s gave me that bump. I’m generally a fairly long hitter, which coming back to my original question, it seemed odd to get such a light shaft. Unfortunately I don’t have the data, so I’m just throwing out guesses now. CC will give me all the data I need and I’ll feel comfortable after that fitting. 

I’m not expecting magic from a fitter, but I do think it’s reasonable to expect my 7i to stay in the 165-175 range coming from 20 yr old irons, if not go up a bit, which is fine, I guess my larger point was the fitter was freaking out about the GIs 7i going 200+ sometimes 210 and I thought that was insane, where’s that leave my PW/GW and my gaps? I mean I suppose I could just take the other woods out of my bag except D at that point and have a bunch of wedges ha.. Really though I’m a feel player, I can’t feel the ball on the face of the GIs, I hate the toplines, and I hit them worse, so it was just a non starter for me.

I’ll definitely reference the trackman stats, thank you, I wasn’t aware of that.

Just so you’re aware, Bryson and DJ 7 iron carry average is just under 200 yards, total is right around 200.  That would mean your swing speed with a 7 iron is 100mph plus and you should be in a tip stiff X stiff shaft.  If 200 yards was overall because it was 7 iron with a 5 iron loft so you got 20 yards of roll, from under 5,000 revs and/or a decent angle of 42-45 I’d understand.  But no way can you swing a light weight stiff shaft and hit a 7 iron 200 yards that’s more carry then most of the longest players on tour.  The average tour player carries 173 yards with a mid 90’s club head speed and an X shaft.  So either the numbers are off or that was a very bad fitting.  I average 290 yards with my driver, play back tees, a 450 yard par 4 for myself is a driver, 8 or 9 iron, playing a 450 yard par 4, are you usually near the 150 yard marker or past it?  If you can hit your 7 iron that far it would equate to a long drive, 320-340 yards, like a DJ or Bryson, which would mean driver wedge on a hole I’d be hitting driver, 8 or 9 iron.  And I play S+ or X shafts.  
link to trackman pga stats:

https://blog.trackmangolf.com/trackman-average-tour-stats/

Edited April 27, 2021 by Pkc

[BKordon]

5 hours ago, MFSOT said:

Ya, this is part of why I’m suspect, not strike plate or sticker, the fitting just felt off in hindsight. I still haven’t even unwrapped the clubs and am thinking about just returning them - what are the chances that CC fits the exact same? It’d be pretty funny if they did, but I doubt it. The CC fitting is definitely for peace of mind, this was my first fitting in 20 years and I just kinda went with the flow, but realized afterwards some things felt off.

I basically had to push him towards the T200 to try, because they were most similar to my old irons 704CBs. He kept trying to push me towards something he had in stock, a cobra major GI iron, because I was hitting the 7i 200+.. I was like dude I don’t want to hit my 7i that far. Also didn’t compare the T200s properly to other players irons which is more my style and suits my game better than a major GI.  So again, hindsight, I probably didn’t get the best fitting

EDIT* I did end up with +1/2, but standard lie, which I asked about and they just said I could have them bent if I’m not hitting them good. Titelist does seem to be a little more up than most, but still I would’ve thought a 1up as well.

Going 1/2 inch long should be 1 degree upright to spec, so this may be part of the reason the fitter left the lie as standard. 

[MFSOT]

2 hours ago, Pkc said:

Just so you’re aware, Bryson and DJ 7 iron carry average is just under 200 yards, total is right around 200.  That would mean your swing speed with a 7 iron is 100mph plus and you should be in a tip stiff X stiff shaft.  If 200 yards was overall because it was 7 iron with a 5 iron loft so you got 20 yards of roll, from under 5,000 revs and/or a decent angle of 42-45 I’d understand.  But no way can you swing a light weight stiff shaft and hit a 7 iron 200 yards that’s more carry then most of the longest players on tour.  The average tour player carries 173 yards with a mid 90’s club head speed and an X shaft.  So either the numbers are off or that was a very bad fitting.  I average 290 yards with my driver, play back tees, a 450 yard par 4 for myself is a driver, 8 or 9 iron, playing a 450 yard par 4, are you usually near the 150 yard marker or past it?  If you can hit your 7 iron that far it would equate to a long drive, 320-340 yards, like a DJ or Bryson, which would mean driver wedge on a hole I’d be hitting driver, 8 or 9 iron.  And I play S+ or X shafts.  
link to trackman pga stats:

https://blog.trackmangolf.com/trackman-average-tour-stats/

The 200 was with a major Game Improvement Distance irons: https://www.cobragolf.com/speedzone-irons was one of the ones I was just hitting crazy long. With a players iron (Titleist T200) my 7i was 170-180, if it were a blade like DJ hits it would probably be more like 160ish,  my current players iron (Titleist 704CB) my 7i is about 170 on avg carry with TT DG S300s. The tech they put in these game improvement irons to get people more distance is crazy, but you get zero feel and have a massive club so you can’t miss the sweet spot.

Your numbers are about like mine I’m 290-300 avg off tee, if I were to play a 450 yard hole, assuming all things equal no wind straight hole, hit the fairway, I’d go D, have 140-160 left and go P(140)/9(150/8(160) - What iron shafts are you gaming, weight/stiffness, certainly there are other factors but our distances seem similar, so curious.

I certainly don’t have a swing speed near DJ or Bryson.

Edited April 28, 2021 by MFSOT

[Pkc]

2 minutes ago, MFSOT said:

The 200 was with a major Game Improvement Distance irons: https://www.cobragolf.com/speedzone-irons was one of the ones I was just hitting crazy long. With a players iron (Titleist T200) my 7i was 170-180, if it were a blade like DJ hits it would probably be more like 160ish,  my current players iron (Titleist 704CB) my 7i is about 170 on avg carry with TT DG S300s. The tech they put in these game improvement irons to get people more distance is crazy, but you get zero feel and have a massive club so you can’t miss the sweet spot.

Your numbers are about like mine I’m 290-300 avg off tee, if I were to play a 450 yard hole, assuming all things equal no wind straight hole, hit the fairway, I’d go D, have 140-160 left and go P(140)/9(150/8(160)

I certainly don’t have a swing speed near DJ or Bryson.

With similar numbers to mine you’d be on the border of stiff to X, luckily KBS makes a bunch of shafts in S+.  And Project X comes in 6.5 or you can tip stiff a regular S shaft.  I used to play S400 for years, the slightly stiffer/heavier version of the S300.  I’m getting older so I now like 120-125 grams better then 130-135.  But dropping from a 125 gram slightly stout shaft to 95 gram slightly weak stiff shaft if your swinging that fast doesn’t sound right.  

[MFSOT]

1 minute ago, Pkc said:

With similar numbers to mine you’d be on the border of stiff to X, luckily KBS makes a bunch of shafts in S+.  And Project X comes in 6.5 or you can tip stiff a regular S shaft.  I used to play S400 for years, the slightly stiffer/heavier version of the S300.  I’m getting older so I now like 120-125 grams better then 130-135.  But dropping from a 125 gram slightly stout shaft to 95 gram slightly weak stiff shaft if your swinging that fast doesn’t sound right.  

Ya, that was my gut, it’ll be interesting to get the results from the CC fitting. Thanks for all your input, I’ll post results end of May when I get the fitting.

Still on the fence about going and trying these T200s on the course, or just returning them. If I try them I essentially own them, I can exchange them for anything I want within 90 days (same value or pay the difference), so my thought process is if they’re way off, take the CC fitting results and have them order that. I guess I’m at the point where I’m not sure I want them to have my $ if the fitting was that off.

[Pkc]

12 hours ago, MFSOT said:

Ya, that was my gut, it’ll be interesting to get the results from the CC fitting. Thanks for all your input, I’ll post results end of May when I get the fitting.

Still on the fence about going and trying these T200s on the course, or just returning them. If I try them I essentially own them, I can exchange them for anything I want within 90 days (same value or pay the difference), so my thought process is if they’re way off, take the CC fitting results and have them order that. I guess I’m at the point where I’m not sure I want them to have my $ if the fitting was that off.

Yeah that’s a tough one, since you don’t know if you’ll get fitted for a shaft Titleist carries normally or if you need tip stiff?  CC carries everything which is good and bad, most manufacturers don’t offer everything to the general public.  My shafts were not available through Srixon, my old shafts were through PXG so I could order straight.  CC charges more since you buy the heads separate from the shaft and pay retail fir each but they do pure the shaft which is nice and manufacturers don’t do that for non pros.  CC can also be more precise in upright, manufacturers only do 1 degree changes, CC did .5 degree change since that’s what I needed.  They also can match swing weights to your liking with ordering the heads separately, I know I like D4,D5.  All things manufacturers don’t offer to non pros.  The only downside, which is big, is I paid 2k for a set that is 1,200 with stock options from the manufacturer or big box store.  

Edited April 28, 2021 by Pkc

[MFSOT]

Just got done my PXG fitting, some numbers while they’re fresh:

Driver Swing Speed: 112-114

7i Swing Speed: 90-92

The fitter said whoever fitted me into a 95G shaft should be fired, and that I need a heavier shaft to control that speed. We worked around the s400, the x100 and finally dialed in on the KBS c-taper S 120. 

Also fitted into the 0311 Gen3 T’s

The T200s ballooned and were definitely giving me some slicing action, as expected by a not so stiff light shaft, guess I won’t be going back to that shop for fititngs anymore.