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Why I don't see a computer replacing a fitting for some time.


HAC

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I am 65 years old.  I played some golf when I was young, but did not play very much for over 30 years (working, kids) until I restarted about 5-6 years ago.  I bought a new driver then, a Ping G driver with a regular shaft and 10.5 degrees of loft.  I have liked the driver and when I first got it I hit the ball about 190-200 with it.  With lessons and more play, I now typically hit the ball about 220-230 (and longer or shorter depending on wind, slope, weather, etc.).  Pretty happy.  But, I need a new five wood and so have been going to demo days at my club with different vendors trying out five woods.  Since I replaced my older irons, hybrids and wedges a couple of years ago, the driver is the second oldest club in my bag.  So, I have also been trying drivers to see if there was any difference.

So, last Friday, TaylorMade came to the club and I scheduled a fitting.  Liked the five wood a lot and may get it - will be trying Callaway in a week and a half when they come and then will make a decision.  Then, we tried drivers.  I hit the Sim2 Max and then the Sim 2 and liked them.  Felt comfortable with the shaft (Ventus Blue 5).  A little better than my current driver but the fitter was not satisfied.  He felt I was hitting the ball too high and had too much spin - my one complaint with my Ping has been that I don't get that much roll.  He gives me a Sim 2 with 9 degrees of loft.  Never in a million years would have thought of going to a driver with 9 degrees of loft at my age.  Huge change.  Really loved it.

Demoed it yesterday on my course, and on my first use of it (3rd hole, par five), I didn't hit it solidly and thought I hit it about 200 yards - I am left handed so it was in the left rough.  Looked in the rough at about 200-210 and could not find the ball.  Kept looking and I found it at about 238 distance from the tee (distance based on golf cart GPS).  The rest of the day I saw drive lengths much further than I typically hit the ball.  On the 14th hole, a par five, I rarely hit the ball more than 220 because of a hill in the landing area.  Hit it past the hill, about 250.  I am so excited.

I will try drivers when the Callaway guy comes to confirm preference, but am so excited about this driver it is hard to wait a week and a half to order it.  

I cannot imagine a computer looking at my current data and coming to the conclusion by the few questions they typically ask that what I need is a 9 degree.  Hasn't happened so far with any website I have tried, including that of TaylorMade!!!  Glad I found a person who wanted to dig a bit deeper.  IMHO, we are not close to a replacing a good fitter.

  • :taylormade-small: Sim 2 Driver Fujikura Ventus Blue 6R shaft
  • :taylormade-small:Sim 2 5 wood Fujikura Ventus Blue 5R shaft
  •  th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0311 Gen 5 Seven Wood Project X Cypher 50 5.5 shaft set to flat with weights set to fade.
  • :titelist-small: H818 Hybrid 25 degrees Tensei ck Series 60 HY regular flex shafts at C4 setting (flat for lefties)
  • :titelist-small: 718 AP1 irons 6-gap Tensei ck Series AMC IR regular flex bent two degrees flat
  • :vokey-small: SM 7 Wedge 58 degrees M grind with 8 bounce Steel shafts wedge flex bent 2 degrees flat
  • :ping-small: Glide 3 52.12 and 56.14 with  Alta CB Red Regular Flex shaft bent 2 degrees flat
  • Go back and forth between :cameron-small: Select Newport 2 putter 34 inch length and :ping-small: Sigma G Tyne putter 33 inch length
  • Bridgestone B X.
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22 hours ago, HAC said:

I cannot imagine a computer looking at my current data and coming to the conclusion by the few questions they typically ask that what I need is a 9 degree.  Hasn't happened so far with any website I have tried, including that of TaylorMade!!!  Glad I found a person who wanted to dig a bit deeper.  IMHO, we are not close to a replacing a good fitter.

Is there some general direction in the industry towards automated fittings? I have not seen much emphasis other than some manufacturer's like PING have online fitting tools. I view these as a way to upsell people on more woods/hybrids/utility clubs and extra wedges than replacing a full fitting. (Or buying straight off the rack in-store based on what is available.) 

Many fitters default to lowering spin above all else to maximize distance in driver fittings with not much discussion to much else like trajectory or dispersion unless you specifically ask. I did a Callaway demo recently because I feel launch on my 9 degree F9 driver is too low with the existing 60 gram stiff shaft which likely costs me 10-20 yards from a theoretical max on good strikes with my speed. 

My best result was a 9 degree head turned down to 8 degrees with a 60X shaft and I was swinging 95 MPH that day. Probably not what you would first think, but the fitters also know yardage will go up when spin goes down (within reason) and that often sells clubs especially at demo days versus a paid fitting or looking at multiple brands. 

:ping-small: G425 MAX Driver & 5W

:cobra-small: Baffler Rail-H 3H-4H

:Sub70: 699 Pro Utility V2 - 4i

:callaway-small: APEX CF19 6-AW

INDI Wedges 52, 56, 60 

 :edel-golf-1: EAS 2.0

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One of our pros was out there when I was getting fitted for the driver, so he was part of the process.  I played a round with the driver a couple of days later (my club has demos, although a lot fewer for lefties like me) and drove the ball significantly longer and as straight or straighter than my current driver.  When (if? see below) I get the club, I will schedule a session with one of our pros to tweak the club, if necessary for me.

I have not ordered the club yet.  I demoed a Titleist driver today (did not like it as much although it was better than my current driver) and will go to another brand fitting a week from Friday when the Callaway rep comes.  

Edited by HAC
  • :taylormade-small: Sim 2 Driver Fujikura Ventus Blue 6R shaft
  • :taylormade-small:Sim 2 5 wood Fujikura Ventus Blue 5R shaft
  •  th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0311 Gen 5 Seven Wood Project X Cypher 50 5.5 shaft set to flat with weights set to fade.
  • :titelist-small: H818 Hybrid 25 degrees Tensei ck Series 60 HY regular flex shafts at C4 setting (flat for lefties)
  • :titelist-small: 718 AP1 irons 6-gap Tensei ck Series AMC IR regular flex bent two degrees flat
  • :vokey-small: SM 7 Wedge 58 degrees M grind with 8 bounce Steel shafts wedge flex bent 2 degrees flat
  • :ping-small: Glide 3 52.12 and 56.14 with  Alta CB Red Regular Flex shaft bent 2 degrees flat
  • Go back and forth between :cameron-small: Select Newport 2 putter 34 inch length and :ping-small: Sigma G Tyne putter 33 inch length
  • Bridgestone B X.
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  • 1 month later...

HAC sorry I’m just seeing this - you and I are similar in age and distance. We also had a TM fitting at our club and the Sim 2 max blew my G410 out of the water.  
 

What couldn’t be touched were my G410 fairway woods. You might give those a try. Very easy to hit. The TMag rep told me is rarely able to beat them in a fitting. 

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 4/29/2021 at 2:57 PM, BMart519 said:

Many fitters default to lowering spin above all else to maximize distance in driver fittings with not much discussion to much else like trajectory or dispersion unless you specifically ask.

Underrated comment. 1000%.

So many captive fittings are very, "nevermind the man behind the curtain" and they just want you to look at the total yards metric. And on firm, summery fairways? Sure, you're probably gonna hit some big ones. But what's your launch and spin look like? what are your standard deviations? how do your misses compare?

I had a driver that had great dispersion and definitely the most total distance, but it hit low bullets. Great in the summers, horrible in the winters. And my misses may still be in the fairway, but a full 30 yards short from what I'd expect. Moved into a driver with 2 degrees more launch, 200 rpm more spin, and much tighter standard deviations. No, my bombs aren't as big as before. But my misses are only being penalized about 10 yards. (I'm slowly learning to be more comfortable with a game that's less about maximizing your potential distance and more about creating the tightest window of possible distances. But this style of golf is incompatible with how most folks are selling clubs these days.)

Driver: :srixon-small: ZX5 LS MkII 9.5* (@ 9.0*) with 46.5" Ventus Blue 6X
3-wood: :taylormade-small: SIM 15* with Diamana Limited 75S
5-wood: :cobra-small: RADspeed 18.5* with Motore X F3 60S
2i: :srixon-small: ZX with SteelFiber i95 Stiff

4hy: :titleist-small: TS3 23* with Tensei AV Blue 70 S
4i-7i :srixon-small: ZX7, 8i-PW Z-Forged, Modus3 Tour 120 S
50*, 55* :cleveland-small: RTX 6 Modus3 Tour 125
60* :cleveland-small: RTX Full Face ZipCore DG Spinner S400
Putter: :callaway-small: Toulon Chicago with a :garsen: Quad Tour or :cleveland-small: HB SOFT Milled 10.5S with UST All-in

Ball: :callaway-small: Chrome Tour (but I might still have some :titleist-small: Left Dashes hanging around)
Bag: :srixon-small: Ltd Edition Tartan, blue/green/yellow

Using :ShotScope: to keep track of my shots

Tested:
:wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged 3i-PW, KBS Tour-V 110S - Official Review
:titelist-small: Blind Ball Test (Ball #3 vs Ball #4) - Unofficial Review
:ShotScope:
 V3 GPS Watch + Tags - Official Review
:OnCore:
 Vero X2 - Official Review

The Stack System - Official Review

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