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Is it time to upgrade...again?


DJ Mico
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We all know that one person--or we are that person--that when they have a bad day on the course, they go to the pro shop/store and buy new equipment. My friends think that is me, but to be fair I just started golfing consistently after I bought a used set of Titleist clubs (driver to putter) for under $300 last year. Since then, I've taken lessons, played a round at least once a week, did two fittings, and saved up to upgrade my bag. I started with a Titleist 983K driver that I got for $20 from Callaway Pre-Owned. I cracked the face after a month and instead of just issuing a refund, I said I was thinking of just buying the 909D3 driver they were selling for $45 and was able to exchange the cracked driver for a "newer" model without any hassle--fantastic customer service. I enjoyed the 909D3 for 3 months until my uncle upgraded from his TaylorMade R15 and passed it on to me. I had been gaming the R15 until December when I upgraded to the Mavrik SZ after a club fitting.

I know that is a lot of changing drivers in a short period of time, and I just got fit, so why could I possibly want to upgrade again? Well, in all honesty, I have grown frustrated with my inconsistencies off the tee, and I am not sure if the driver is really helping me. For reference, here are my Trackman numbers with the R15 and my Mavrik SZ.

1446583220_R1510_21_2020.png.fd64ded0aae9bc1c84824cf871fe8ad8.png

1038210920_Mavrik3.6_2021.png.56de5e543195040c7424426143a5ecbb.png

 

The numbers seem to clearly favor the Mavrik SZ as I am hitting the ball farther, faster, and with tighter consistency metrics, but consistency in my fittings and on the course are very different. It's easy to get into a groove on Trackman or the range. But it is much different to just step up to the tee, hit one drive, and play your next shot. In my last few rounds I have noticed a two-way miss with my driver where I either hit a strong fade or a snap hook. Both of which only go a total distance of about 250 yards and are nowhere close to the middle of the fairway. Like most clubs, once that thought of getting rid of it creeps into your mind, you absolutely stripe one and think you can do that all the time and the cycle of mishits starts again.

Trust me, I love the feeling of sending a solid shot off my Mavrik miles past my playing partners' best drives. But I also loathe mishitting one into the trees and losing strokes because I am short and in the woods and farther away with a more difficult shot to try and make GIR. In evaluating my strike, I tend to hit the middle of the face fairly often, but can feel that at times my club face is closed or open, which causes a bit of a draw or fade. When I really mishit my driver, I miss high and off the toe and end of feeling the club gear back and end up with a bad snap hook. 

I obviously want to improve all of my game but am okay where the rest of my game is for now. The inconsistency off the tee box is really the most frustrating part of my game. I am planning to get a lesson soon and fix/diagnose my swing problems and tinker with adjustments to the sleeve of my driver. However, I have read reviews and understand that the Mavrik SZ is not a "forgiving" driver and is aimed more toward the lower handicapper/consistent ball striker, and, honestly, that isn't me. How much of the inconsistency is just from being new and still learning versus being harmed by playing a driver that requires a higher level of consistency? What would I be giving up in terms of distance on good and how much mishit protection for less than good shots could I expect to see differ in a "more forgiving" driver?

Any help is appreciated 

Driver: :callaway-small: Mavrik Sub Zero 9º

3 Wood:callaway-small: Mavrik 15°

Hybrid: :callaway-small:Mavrik Pro 3 Hybrid 20°

Irons

4-6:titelist-small: T200

7-PW:Miura: CB-301

Wedges

:mizuno-small: T20 50/7 Satin (bent to 48/5); T20 54/14 Blue Ion

:ping-small: Glide 3.0 Eye2 60/8

Putter:odyssey-small: Toulon Design Stroke Lab Las Vegas with H7 neck

Ball: :titelist-small: ProV1

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2 hours ago, DJ Mico said:

We all know that one person--or we are that person--that when they have a bad day on the course, they go to the pro shop/store and buy new equipment. My friends think that is me, but to be fair I just started golfing consistently after I bought a used set of Titleist clubs (driver to putter) for under $300 last year. Since then, I've taken lessons, played a round at least once a week, did two fittings, and saved up to upgrade my bag. I started with a Titleist 983K driver that I got for $20 from Callaway Pre-Owned. I cracked the face after a month and instead of just issuing a refund, I said I was thinking of just buying the 909D3 driver they were selling for $45 and was able to exchange the cracked driver for a "newer" model without any hassle--fantastic customer service. I enjoyed the 909D3 for 3 months until my uncle upgraded from his TaylorMade R15 and passed it on to me. I had been gaming the R15 until December when I upgraded to the Mavrik SZ after a club fitting.

I know that is a lot of changing drivers in a short period of time, and I just got fit, so why could I possibly want to upgrade again? Well, in all honesty, I have grown frustrated with my inconsistencies off the tee, and I am not sure if the driver is really helping me. For reference, here are my Trackman numbers with the R15 and my Mavrik SZ.

1446583220_R1510_21_2020.png.fd64ded0aae9bc1c84824cf871fe8ad8.png

1038210920_Mavrik3.6_2021.png.56de5e543195040c7424426143a5ecbb.png

 

The numbers seem to clearly favor the Mavrik SZ as I am hitting the ball farther, faster, and with tighter consistency metrics, but consistency in my fittings and on the course are very different. It's easy to get into a groove on Trackman or the range. But it is much different to just step up to the tee, hit one drive, and play your next shot. In my last few rounds I have noticed a two-way miss with my driver where I either hit a strong fade or a snap hook. Both of which only go a total distance of about 250 yards and are nowhere close to the middle of the fairway. Like most clubs, once that thought of getting rid of it creeps into your mind, you absolutely stripe one and think you can do that all the time and the cycle of mishits starts again.

Trust me, I love the feeling of sending a solid shot off my Mavrik miles past my playing partners' best drives. But I also loathe mishitting one into the trees and losing strokes because I am short and in the woods and farther away with a more difficult shot to try and make GIR. In evaluating my strike, I tend to hit the middle of the face fairly often, but can feel that at times my club face is closed or open, which causes a bit of a draw or fade. When I really mishit my driver, I miss high and off the toe and end of feeling the club gear back and end up with a bad snap hook. 

I obviously want to improve all of my game but am okay where the rest of my game is for now. The inconsistency off the tee box is really the most frustrating part of my game. I am planning to get a lesson soon and fix/diagnose my swing problems and tinker with adjustments to the sleeve of my driver. However, I have read reviews and understand that the Mavrik SZ is not a "forgiving" driver and is aimed more toward the lower handicapper/consistent ball striker, and, honestly, that isn't me. How much of the inconsistency is just from being new and still learning versus being harmed by playing a driver that requires a higher level of consistency? What would I be giving up in terms of distance on good and how much mishit protection for less than good shots could I expect to see differ in a "more forgiving" driver?

Any help is appreciated 

Using a driver that is more performance vs forgiveness base does make things a little more complicated when you are looking for forgiveness and consistency. It is a difficult decision to make, if you like the Mavrik SZ you can certainly go in that direction, but there are other drivers that fit into the more forgiving category. Those are listed in the most wanted driver testing. You may find that getting a lesson and becoming more acclimated with the driver will help your game because it will force you to really hone in on your craft with the Marvrik as it is less forgiving. Once the two way miss goes you may find your game on the tee box is a bit easier as you only have one problem to focus on correcting. Big thing is focusing on consistent strike pattern once you start delivering the club face more square it opens you up to many possibilities positively If your game improves with a lesson and the Maverick is a better fit, does it make sense for you to go with a more forgiving driver, the other side of that is a more forgiving driver could be a better fit in general over the Mavrik. Test a few to see what works, there are many free fitting oppurtunities with Titleist Thursday fitting session for example

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:ping-small: G425 LST 10.5 Aldilla Rogue White 70s

:titelist-small: TS3 15.5 3W Fuji Speeder Tour Spec

:titelist-small: 818 H1 19deg Hybrid Fuji Atmos White

:mizuno-small: JPX 921 Hot Metal 4-PW Nippon Modus 120s

:vokey-small: SM8 50,54, and 58deg Dynamic Gold Wedge Flex

:taylormade-small:Spider Tour Putter

Vice Pro Plus White or Titleist ProV1x

:ping-small: Hoofer Stand Bag

:CaddyTek: V8 3 Wheel Push Cart

:callaway-small: 300 PRO Rangefinder

Official Nippon Regio B+ Driver Shaft Review

 

 

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2 hours ago, DJ Mico said:

I am planning to get a lesson soon and fix/diagnose my swing problems and tinker with adjustments to the sleeve of my driver. However, I have read reviews and understand that the Mavrik SZ is not a "forgiving" driver and is aimed more toward the lower handicapper/consistent ball striker, and, honestly, that isn't me. How much of the inconsistency is just from being new and still learning versus being harmed by playing a driver that requires a higher level of consistency?

Spending the money on lessons and putting in the work would be the first option. Your inconsistency on the course is because your inconsistency in strike location on the face and based on the numbers you are probably coming from the inside too much. You probably have more of a two way miss with the driver too compared to irons right?

You have the swing speed to play the mavrik and my guess is that in your fitting  it was the driver and shaft setup that kept the attack angle down a bit and spin and launch in more consistent zone.

 

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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27 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Spending the money on lessons and putting in the work would be the first option. Your inconsistency on the course is because your inconsistency in strike location on the face and based on the numbers you are probably coming from the inside too much. You probably have more of a two way miss with the driver too compared to irons right?

You have the swing speed to play the mavrik and my guess is that in your fitting  it was the driver and shaft setup that kept the attack angle down a bit and spin and launch in more consistent zone.

 

If I'm reading the numbers right, (positive path, and positive club face), he's coming in in to out with an open club face... That's going to generate a push fade (starts right, keeps going right).  It might be as simple as setting the face to closed to promote a draw. Otherwise, you probably want to work on hitting a draw and making sure the club face is closed at impact... you will hit more snap hooks, but should lose less far right... just need to find the balance!

For me, a lot of confidence on the tee box comes from having hit enough good drives off the tee box... it's a dumb paradox, but at a certain point you just have to swing away with driver with a decent swing... I've played too much "golf swing" in my life... 

It's not the driver, though I will say changing shafts can always be a fun way to tinker... I've found heavier, non counterbalanced shafts let me feel the head a little better. (or at least convince me I'm feeling the head better), so everything I hit has a 70 gram shaft in it. 

Just figure out WHY the ball is flying a way you don't like and then figure out what is actionable in your swing or setup to change that... can be anything from a grip change to a setting change on the driver... or just consciously turning your wrists over... You can also learn to hit the power fade! Get your club path more negative and leave your hands alone and just play a fade.

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Mavrik 9 degree - Ventus Black 7X

Mavrik 13.5 Degree - Hazardus Smoke

Sub70 19 degree - Proforce V2 8F5

Sub70 4u - Proforce V2 8F5

Sub70 5i - DG S400

Adams CMB 6-GW - Project X 6.0

Sub70 54 (286) and 58 (JB Low Bounce) - S300

SeeMore Trimetal Mallet (Custom fit and built... Kudos to Cody)

And as always, Kudos to Craigers.

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the 1000$ question!!! or more like 600$ one.

Every person have valid point. Most of them will cost you money. Depend on how much you want to invest.

I'd say check youtube video, tons of them, try different thing at the range from those video and see if it change something for you. If it does, perfect, if not, try other thing.

If you have a strong slice ( Mine was 50 yards +) you have 2-3 quick solutions. PING SFT is an anti slicer, generally work very well and will save you money on balls.

Grip and hand position will often help also. For me it was bringing my hand more to the center of my body at address. I allowed me to close the club face more.

I combined both the driver AND the hand position, only lost 1 ball yesterday (first drive without any warmup rushing to the 1st hole), all other 13 drive were acceptable even the mishit one. 

If I use a normal driver now, I usually have a 10-15 yards fade with my old taylormade R5.

With my ping g410 SFT I have 10 straight drive, 3 small fade and normally 1 completely slicing the thing out of the park.

 

 

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I vote to stay with the driver and see where lessons take you. 

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14 of the following:

Ping G400 Max

Cobra King F9 Speedback 3 wood

Callaway Big Bertha Heavenwood

Cobra F9 Speedback 7/8 wood set at 23.5 degrees

Taylormade M4 5 hybrid

Callaway Mavrik Max 6-GW

PXG 0211 5-GW

PXG 0211 sand wedge bent to 53 degrees

Maltby M Series+ 54 degree

Ping Glide 3.0 Eye2 58 degree

Ping Sigma 2 Anser

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5 hours ago, myherobobhope said:

If I'm reading the numbers right, (positive path, and positive club face), he's coming in in to out with an open club face... That's going to generate a push fade (starts right, keeps going right).  It might be as simple as setting the face to closed to promote a draw. Otherwise, you probably want to work on hitting a draw and making sure the club face is closed at impact... you will hit more snap hooks, but should lose less far right... just need to find the balance!

For me, a lot of confidence on the tee box comes from having hit enough good drives off the tee box... it's a dumb paradox, but at a certain point you just have to swing away with driver with a decent swing... I've played too much "golf swing" in my life... 

It's not the driver, though I will say changing shafts can always be a fun way to tinker... I've found heavier, non counterbalanced shafts let me feel the head a little better. (or at least convince me I'm feeling the head better), so everything I hit has a 70 gram shaft in it. 

Just figure out WHY the ball is flying a way you don't like and then figure out what is actionable in your swing or setup to change that... can be anything from a grip change to a setting change on the driver... or just consciously turning your wrists over... You can also learn to hit the power fade! Get your club path more negative and leave your hands alone and just play a fade.

You are correct, I do come very in to out. I'm a former college baseball player, so I have worked hard in the last year to try and eliminate the nasty banana slice that goes farther right than forward. The drives I hit well end up having a beautiful draw to them. Since eliminating the banana slice, I play for a draw, and it usually works. The problem is that sometimes I get a little too draw biased and get a high toe strike that doesn't go very far and goes very far left. Then, I try to tone down the draw and hit a strong power fade--usually when I don't need/want to. 

I definitely am going to take your advice though and just give it a swing. I feel like I've tinkered so much with my driver stance, set up, and everything else before even swinging that all the little tinkering has gotten me to the point that I feel like if my feet or shoulders are not at the perfect spot that I am instantly doomed for a mishit. I'll take a lesson and keep practicing and hopefully not keep wasting so many shots out of the tee box. I'm not a great golfer by any measure, but I at least know that if I get to within 170 yards that I usually only need 3 more shots to finish the hole (approach and 2-putt or approach, chip, and putt). While I would like to get that down, I am more concerned with getting more consistent with the big stick to avoid wasting shots on penalties or escaping from the woods.

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Driver: :callaway-small: Mavrik Sub Zero 9º

3 Wood:callaway-small: Mavrik 15°

Hybrid: :callaway-small:Mavrik Pro 3 Hybrid 20°

Irons

4-6:titelist-small: T200

7-PW:Miura: CB-301

Wedges

:mizuno-small: T20 50/7 Satin (bent to 48/5); T20 54/14 Blue Ion

:ping-small: Glide 3.0 Eye2 60/8

Putter:odyssey-small: Toulon Design Stroke Lab Las Vegas with H7 neck

Ball: :titelist-small: ProV1

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5 minutes ago, DJ Mico said:

You are correct, I do come very in to out. I'm a former college baseball player, so I have worked hard in the last year to try and eliminate the nasty banana slice that goes farther right than forward. The drives I hit well end up having a beautiful draw to them. Since eliminating the banana slice, I play for a draw, and it usually works. The problem is that sometimes I get a little too draw biased and get a high toe strike that doesn't go very far and goes very far left. Then, I try to tone down the draw and hit a strong power fade--usually when I don't need/want to. 

I definitely am going to take your advice though and just give it a swing. I feel like I've tinkered so much with my driver stance, set up, and everything else before even swinging that all the little tinkering has gotten me to the point that I feel like if my feet or shoulders are not at the perfect spot that I am instantly doomed for a mishit. I'll take a lesson and keep practicing and hopefully not keep wasting so many shots out of the tee box. I'm not a great golfer by any measure, but I at least know that if I get to within 170 yards that I usually only need 3 more shots to finish the hole (approach and 2-putt or approach, chip, and putt). While I would like to get that down, I am more concerned with getting more consistent with the big stick to avoid wasting shots on penalties or escaping from the woods.

I was going to write a long response to your first post, but I think you are doing the right thing. A good teaching pro will be able to diagnose your driver swing and get you on the path to better shots.

And, regarding my bolded emphasis, if you are an 11 handicap you are already better than the vast majority who play this game. I understand your sentiment (and I have it, too) but sometimes we don't give ourselves enough credit. I've been playing golf for as long as I can remember (25-ish years?) and only got down to my current handicap/ability level in the past nine months.

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Unofficial WHS Handicap: 8.5 / Anti-Cap: 14.4 (Last Updated Sept. 19, 2021)

Driver: callaway_logo.png.3dd18aa65544000dd0ea3901697a8261.png Callaway Epic Max LS (9°), 45.75", Dumina AutoFlex SF505X | Unofficial AutoFlex Review
17° Hybrid:
callaway_logo.png.3dd18aa65544000dd0ea3901697a8261.png Callaway Super Hybrid, 41.5", Mitsubishi MMT Hybrid 80 TX
18.5° Driving Iron: 
cobra_logo.png.190908c8b4518eec87c087429e4343ee.png Cobra KING Utility (2016 Model), 39.5", Mitsubishi MMT Utility 105 TX
21° Hybrid:
callaway_logo.png.3dd18aa65544000dd0ea3901697a8261.png Callaway Epic Flash, 40", Mitsubishi MMT Hybrid 80 TX
4 Utility: 
cobra_logo.png.190908c8b4518eec87c087429e4343ee.png Cobra KING Utility (2020 Model), 38.5", UST Mamiya Recoil 110 F5
5-AW:  
Sub70_Logo_WhtBlk.jpg.aee386374adf9afd31a02b989c839f9d.jpg Sub70 699 (5-6)/699 Pro (7-AW) Combo Set, 1° Flat, 37" 7 Iron, Mitsubishi MMT Taper 105 TX | Build Thread
54°, 58°:
cobra_logo.png.190908c8b4518eec87c087429e4343ee.png Cobra KING MIM Black, 1° Flat, 35.5", 35.25", Mitsubishi MMT Wedge 105 TX | #CobraConnect Review
Putter:
image.png.49fcc172a1ed0010d930fbe1c5dc8b79.png L.A.B. Golf DF 2.1, 36", 68°, Black with Custom Sightlines, BGT Stability Tour, L.A.B. Press II 3° | Unofficial Review
Grips: 
lamkin.png.5081890e009ae78e16066ee0fd18b7c0.png Lamkin Sonar Tour
Ball: :Snell:Snell MTB-X Optic Yellow

Tracked By: :Arccos: Arccos | #CobraConnect Review
Bag: :1590477705_SunMountain: Personalized 2020 Sun Mountain Sync
Riding On: :CaddyTek: CaddyTek Caddylite EZ V8 | Unofficial Review

WITB? | 2021 Reviewer Maxfli Tour and Tour X Balls2020 Participant #CobraConnect Challenge | 2019 Reviewer Callaway Epic Flash Driver

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I have gone back to a 43.5" length driver, gives up a few yards but the accuracy is tremendous compared to the 45"+ drivers being sold today.  You seem to be hitting the ball plenty far, and once you get a little more confidence with a shorter driver, it will close the distance gap a lot too.  Best of luck!

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May I make a suggestion: get a routine that you use on every drive. You said you tinker with location, stance etc. Figure your best way to line everything up the same way everytime. Set club, set feet, confirm grip, hit ball. This has helped me tremendously. I recommend it.

Just my thought.

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 :ping-small: G400 Max driver, Kuro Kage shaft

:callaway-small: heavenwood

:cobra-small: Hybrids - 3 and 4 set to different settings depending on course. Sometimes a Taylormade 4

Dynacraft CB irons 5-GW

:vokey-small: 54, 58

:taylormade-small: Ardmore 3 putter

 

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Forgiving you say.........you need look no further than the PING G425 (Max or LST).  Talk about simply point and shoot, I've gone from hitting approx. 50% of fairways (G410), to hitting +70% without any fall off in distance.  I know there are longer options out there, but my ego doesn't need to be stroked, what I need is to be playing my 2nd from the short grass over and over (with reasonable distance) and the G425 is the shanizzle where that is concerned. 

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 :ping-small: G425 Driver - 10.5 degree

 :ping-small: G425 3W - 16 degree

 :ping-small: G425 5W - 19 degree

 :ping-small: G425 4 Hybrid - 22 degree

 SRIXON ZX4 5-AW - Nippon MODUS 105 shafts

:scotty-cameron-1: Phantom X 8 Putter - Original "Two Thumb" grip 

Edel Trapper Wedge Lob Wedge 60 Degree Used Golf Club at GlobalGolf.com 54 and 58 degree V-Grind SMS wedges

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1 hour ago, DJ Mico said:

You are correct, I do come very in to out. I'm a former college baseball player, so I have worked hard in the last year to try and eliminate the nasty banana slice that goes farther right than forward. The drives I hit well end up having a beautiful draw to them. Since eliminating the banana slice, I play for a draw, and it usually works. The problem is that sometimes I get a little too draw biased and get a high toe strike that doesn't go very far and goes very far left. Then, I try to tone down the draw and hit a strong power fade--usually when I don't need/want to. 

I definitely am going to take your advice though and just give it a swing. I feel like I've tinkered so much with my driver stance, set up, and everything else before even swinging that all the little tinkering has gotten me to the point that I feel like if my feet or shoulders are not at the perfect spot that I am instantly doomed for a mishit. I'll take a lesson and keep practicing and hopefully not keep wasting so many shots out of the tee box. I'm not a great golfer by any measure, but I at least know that if I get to within 170 yards that I usually only need 3 more shots to finish the hole (approach and 2-putt or approach, chip, and putt). While I would like to get that down, I am more concerned with getting more consistent with the big stick to avoid wasting shots on penalties or escaping from the woods.

Just think about a nice fastball down the middle and take a cut. 
it’s very easy to get in your own way with your golf swing.

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Mavrik 9 degree - Ventus Black 7X

Mavrik 13.5 Degree - Hazardus Smoke

Sub70 19 degree - Proforce V2 8F5

Sub70 4u - Proforce V2 8F5

Sub70 5i - DG S400

Adams CMB 6-GW - Project X 6.0

Sub70 54 (286) and 58 (JB Low Bounce) - S300

SeeMore Trimetal Mallet (Custom fit and built... Kudos to Cody)

And as always, Kudos to Craigers.

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Thanks for the help everyone! I love hearing from my fellow Golf Spies as always. 

Since I moved out of the R15, I have been curious about how the loft sleeve works on the Callaway. I know on the TaylorMade that the adjustments would alter lie angle, face angle, loft and spin--per the below picture.

Why should we believe in the new TaylorMade SIM driver? : Golf Business  Monitor

I have not messed with the Callaway one since I was fit into the Mavrik SZ at standard specs. When I had the R15, I had the loft down 1.5 degrees making my 9.5 driver an 8 degree and played a fairly consistent draw with that driver. Does anyone know how the loft sleeve on the Callaway affects things such as face angle, if at all? I see it says you can turn it up or down a couple of degrees and set the second cog to draw or neutral, but does anyone know how that affects things in the same way the TaylorMade says its sleeve does?

Callaway Custom Driver Shafts with OptiFit 2 Adapter - Just Say Golf

Driver: :callaway-small: Mavrik Sub Zero 9º

3 Wood:callaway-small: Mavrik 15°

Hybrid: :callaway-small:Mavrik Pro 3 Hybrid 20°

Irons

4-6:titelist-small: T200

7-PW:Miura: CB-301

Wedges

:mizuno-small: T20 50/7 Satin (bent to 48/5); T20 54/14 Blue Ion

:ping-small: Glide 3.0 Eye2 60/8

Putter:odyssey-small: Toulon Design Stroke Lab Las Vegas with H7 neck

Ball: :titelist-small: ProV1

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11 hours ago, DJ Mico said:

Thanks for the help everyone! I love hearing from my fellow Golf Spies as always. 

Since I moved out of the R15, I have been curious about how the loft sleeve works on the Callaway. I know on the TaylorMade that the adjustments would alter lie angle, face angle, loft and spin--per the below picture.

Why should we believe in the new TaylorMade SIM driver? : Golf Business  Monitor

I have not messed with the Callaway one since I was fit into the Mavrik SZ at standard specs. When I had the R15, I had the loft down 1.5 degrees making my 9.5 driver an 8 degree and played a fairly consistent draw with that driver. Does anyone know how the loft sleeve on the Callaway affects things such as face angle, if at all? I see it says you can turn it up or down a couple of degrees and set the second cog to draw or neutral, but does anyone know how that affects things in the same way the TaylorMade says its sleeve does?

Callaway Custom Driver Shafts with OptiFit 2 Adapter - Just Say Golf

If you add loft it will shut the face and vice versa for taking loft away.
 

The draw setting is going to shut the face more and the n will keep It wherever it’s set based on the loft choice.

While tinkering can be fun it can lead down a rabbit hole. You were fit to a certain setting based on your swing, deviations in performance from a fitting are typically because of the user not the club. Fixing the swing is going to yield better results in the long run.

If you want to see the affects of the changes on the cog. Go to the driving range and get a bucket. Take 5 swings with your current setting and note the flight and results. Then try different settings and compare it to your baseline 5 swings and note the differences

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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18 hours ago, DJ Mico said:

You are correct, I do come very in to out. I'm a former college baseball player, so I have worked hard in the last year to try and eliminate the nasty banana slice that goes farther right than forward. The drives I hit well end up having a beautiful draw to them. Since eliminating the banana slice, I play for a draw, and it usually works. The problem is that sometimes I get a little too draw biased and get a high toe strike that doesn't go very far and goes very far left. Then, I try to tone down the draw and hit a strong power fade--usually when I don't need/want to. 

I definitely am going to take your advice though and just give it a swing. I feel like I've tinkered so much with my driver stance, set up, and everything else before even swinging that all the little tinkering has gotten me to the point that I feel like if my feet or shoulders are not at the perfect spot that I am instantly doomed for a mishit. I'll take a lesson and keep practicing and hopefully not keep wasting so many shots out of the tee box. I'm not a great golfer by any measure, but I at least know that if I get to within 170 yards that I usually only need 3 more shots to finish the hole (approach and 2-putt or approach, chip, and putt). While I would like to get that down, I am more concerned with getting more consistent with the big stick to avoid wasting shots on penalties or escaping from the woods.

When you said you bought the Sub Zero, and had inconsistencies off the tee, I thought the spin may be too low coming off that head. Turns out it isn’t. So, that leaves me with this: I’m like you... When I get it in my head that a change is needed, I go change the club. In your case, I would DEFINITELY change the driver....... BUT, after another lesson. If you hadn’t been through a fitting I’d have recommended that, but you have. I think a new driver could wait until seeing if the swing issue is really the culprit, and be a reward for fixing said issue if so.

Anyway, since I’ve been you, and I know you’re looking for that post that says, “Yes! Buy a new driver! NOW,” I want to say sorry that I couldn’t be the one that said that....

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Driver: :cobra-small: King F9 Speedback/:callaway-small:Epic Max LS, Xphlexxx Busa 2 Liquid, XX stiff, 45”

Fwy:  :callaway-small: Epic Speed 4w, MMT 80X

Hybrid: :callaway-small: X2 Hot Pro, 20*, Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 105X

Irons: :honma:TR20 Tour P 4-10, :Nippon: Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

All but putter have Lamkin ST+2 Hybrid Calibrate midsize built to oversize +1

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21 hours ago, DJ Mico said:

You are correct, I do come very in to out. I'm a former college baseball player, so I have worked hard in the last year to try and eliminate the nasty banana slice that goes farther right than forward. The drives I hit well end up having a beautiful draw to them. Since eliminating the banana slice, I play for a draw, and it usually works. The problem is that sometimes I get a little too draw biased and get a high toe strike that doesn't go very far and goes very far left. Then, I try to tone down the draw and hit a strong power fade--usually when I don't need/want to. 

I definitely am going to take your advice though and just give it a swing. I feel like I've tinkered so much with my driver stance, set up, and everything else before even swinging that all the little tinkering has gotten me to the point that I feel like if my feet or shoulders are not at the perfect spot that I am instantly doomed for a mishit. I'll take a lesson and keep practicing and hopefully not keep wasting so many shots out of the tee box. I'm not a great golfer by any measure, but I at least know that if I get to within 170 yards that I usually only need 3 more shots to finish the hole (approach and 2-putt or approach, chip, and putt). While I would like to get that down, I am more concerned with getting more consistent with the big stick to avoid wasting shots on penalties or escaping from the woods.

Although I’ve never been fitted myself, I have seen quite a few people get fitted and the generally issue I have with getting fitted for a driver is that you end up hitting the “suggested club” after your normal gamer. From the smash factor, it looks like you were striking the maverick more out of the center of the face, which could just be due to “getting in the groove” as you put it before. I also don’t see any side spin numbers, so I’m not sure if the total carry is accounting for that or just for your ball speed and backspin rate. 
 

As for the working on the swing portion, I used to have the same issue as you with regards to the slice and the biggest thing I would suggest is just practice. It seems like you know what is causing your misses, so only fixing your muscle memory can cure that. The only other though I have is possibly looking to lower your on course swing speed. I know everyone hates to hear that, but that is what has helped my score improve the most. I used to swing for the fences every time and was horribly inconsistent, so I will train on the range to hit further, but use a comfortable swing speed on the course

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Obsessed with the game

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30 minutes ago, SkilledByDesign said:

Although I’ve never been fitted myself, I have seen quite a few people get fitted and the generally issue I have with getting fitted for a driver is that you end up hitting the “suggested club” after your normal gamer. From the smash factor, it looks like you were striking the maverick more out of the center of the face, which could just be due to “getting in the groove” as you put it before.

Nothing prevents you from hitting your club again. Also when hitting your first club you should be warmed up and “in the groove”. Or better yet not just hitting ball after ball and getting in a groove.  

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  :seemore-small: mFGP2

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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10 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Nothing prevents you from hitting your club again. Also when hitting your first club you should be warmed up and “in the groove”. Or better yet not just hitting ball after ball and getting in a groove.  

I get that. I often wonder if a better test would be an on course trackman session where you hit driver on the course, switching between which one you hit first vs second. I love the data as much as anyone, but I know my swing is much more controlled on the course than on the range or on the simulator. 
I believe Rick shiels on YouTube does a good job of testing both concepts 

Obsessed with the game

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1 minute ago, SkilledByDesign said:

I get that. I often wonder if a better test would be an on course trackman session where you hit driver on the course, switching between which one you hit first vs second. I love the data as much as anyone, but I know my swing is much more controlled on the course than on the range or on the simulator. 
I believe Rick shiels on YouTube does a good job of testing both concepts 

I don’t think there is a perfect way.  For example during most wanted testing we hit 3-5 shots before switching clubs and go through the clubs roughly 4 times.  It is hard hitting in a simulator and seeing your trace line on the screen.   I seem to do better when that disappears and I have to rely on memory of previous shots to try and not adapt my swing as much.  

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  :seemore-small: mFGP2

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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