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I am a Sr golfer and thought with a slow swing speed, I needed a Sr Shaft. Well, two times, Driver and  3 wood, I went with a Sr shaft and it's been a disaster. I can hardly hit the ball. It made me think, how many lessons are given and not a thought is given to a proper shaft. It might be a bad matching shaft, not a bad swing. 

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Swing speed is only one factor in selecting shaft flex.  I am assuming you fit your self;  did you do any comparisons or just pick the best available club.    Don't know what your disaster is, but if the instructor isn't a fitter,  they may not try to change your clubs and a bad matching shaft probably wouldn't be a disaster.  

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  Bellum Winmore 787

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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Shaft flex is pretty much irrelevant once you change shaft manufacturers or even different lines within a manufacturers product lines.

Swing speed also not what fitters look at. As Ian from TXG says it’s an input value and what matter more is the output numbers such as ball speed, launch, spin, spin loft, peak height and descent angle.

As for your lessons question a good instructor can tell when a club isn’t a fit for a student and should recommend them getting properly fit.

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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10 minutes ago, NC Golfer said:

Just picked it up off the shelf and picked a club that felt ok on an indoor range and had a good reputation, G400

it is a solid club,  but "it felt ok" isn't really a way to test a club.  at least use your current driver and compare side by side.  if you aren't doing a fitting,  try different shafts and see how they compare.  

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  Bellum Winmore 787

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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There are ZERO standards in golf shafts. One manufacturers regular could be another manufacturers stiff. Felt OK is a recipe for disaster. Unless you are properly fit by a reputable club fitter, you will get more disasters.  Just a question of what magnitude. 

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Professional club maker/club fitter, retired

Founding member, former President, International Clubmakers Guild

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I have 2 fairway. shafts by Mayasaki. They use an ISO shaft rating standard numbering system. It's high time the industry as a whole adopted such a system. The number quantifies characteristics of the shaft. As I understand it adopting such a thing would force compliance and that would increase production cost. Just saying.

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On 4/29/2021 at 8:31 PM, NC Golfer said:

I am a Sr golfer and thought with a slow swing speed, I needed a Sr Shaft. Well, two times, Driver and  3 wood, I went with a Sr shaft and it's been a disaster. I can hardly hit the ball. It made me think, how many lessons are given and not a thought is given to a proper shaft. It might be a bad matching shaft, not a bad swing. 

If anything, Id say shaft flex is looked at way too much.  Theres been various studies that have show that shaft flex really doesnt matter and its really more of a feel thing.

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"I suppose its better to be a master of 7 than to be vaguely familiar with 14." - Chick Evans

Whats in my Sun Mountain 2.5+ stand bag?

Woods: Tommy Armour Atomic 10.5* 

Irons: Mizuno MP Fli-Hi 21* and Mizuno T-Zoid True 5, 7 and 9-irons

Wedge: Mizuno S18 Blue Ion 54*

Putter: Mizuno Bettinardi A-02

Ball: Maxfli Tour X

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I'm 65 and three years ago I spent 5k for a fitting and clubs at TSG. I wanted to make sure as best I could that it was the Indian and not the arrows that were at fault. I had one prior fitting at a Golf Galaxy where a guy had me hit balls off a lie board and then sold me a set of Callaway XR's with graphite senior shafts. I never played well with them. I was a 30 plus handicap at the time. For reference I'm now a 14. So I went to TSG and got fit for Apex 2019's and Tailormade M6 driver and Fairway woods. ALL in STIFF FLEX. The Apex are NIPPON NS950's, the driver is a FUJIKURA TSG PRO XLR8 and the fairway is a OBAN ISAWA RED 75 04. So I asked why the GG fitter put me in senior shafts and he said it was my age. Then why are you putting me in stiff shafts? He said ball speed and swing speed. 
I like to tinker so this year I bought a G410 and G425 LST heads and a FUJIKURA TSG PRO XLR8 that was used in fittings so not "made for" or "made with" and tried it with the 410 and the 425 LST. It's great on the 410 and not so much on the 425 LST. I might try the 425 MAX after I sell the LST. 🙂 
So make sure it's not the Arrow and go get a "good" fitting. Just pay for the fitting and take the "Prescription" and buy a shaft and a head and try it. PGA Superstore is a good place to do that if you don't want to do all this tinkering yourself. And as always YMMV. 🙂

-ckeller52
 
What's in the bag? This is....
IRONS         default_callaway-small.jpg.8d98a06e9125f12a694e88ffcbab3e58.jpg  Apex 19 5-AW NIPPON NS950 S
3 & 4 Irons   Maltby TS-1 Forged NIPPON NS950 S 
WEDGES      PING   Glide 2.0 Stealth 54° & 58° SS
DRIVER       default_taylormade-small.jpg.8a4a9b2a2fac6fe087f1c8c5cb704dbe.jpg  M6 FUJIKURA TSG PRO XLR8 61 S
3 WOOD      default_taylormade-small.jpg.8a4a9b2a2fac6fe087f1c8c5cb704dbe.jpg  M6 OBAN ISAWA RED 75 04
HYBRIDS     cobra King F9 Speedback 3&4  KBS TOUR HB GRAPHITE 75 R
PUTTER      Evnroll-01_1.jpg.c44279091062836814d5f5119fc252ea.jpg ER2cs 370gr The Stability Shaft
Lamkin       Sonar+ Tour Calibrate Standard Golf Grips
I also use Garmin Approach S62 and TecTecTec Range Finder.
And a SkyTrak launch monitor for the three times a week or so I hit the mat. 

 

 

 

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Maybe you need a senior shaft, and maybe not. You need to be aware that the flex in one brand of shafts doesn't equal the same flex in another brand. There are no parameters for shafts from the USGA/R&A, only a max length. You can hit a senior in brand A, and brand B's senior shaft could be equivalent to brand A's regular in flex. Don't just order a shaft because of it's marking. You have to hit it on a monitor and compare it to other brands. Hit senior and regular shafts in all brands and buy the one that performs the best in your opinion. Also try different lengths. Most standard drivers have 46.5" shafts. I purchased a Ping G400MAX with a standard 46.75" shaft. As a fitter, I had the ability to play around with length and weight. I'm a senior, now using a 44" Mits Diamana re weighted, and out-driving virtually everyone I play...and down the middle!

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Certified Club Fitter.

Ping G400 Max Driver 10.5° w/Diamona S+ LTD Blue-Board 70 R Flex

Ping G410 5 Fairway Wood Mitsubishi Tensi Orange R Flex

Ping G410 4-5-6 Hybrids Mitsubishi Tensi Blue R Flex

Ping i500 Irons 5-U w/Recoil SmacWrap F3 Flex (power-spec lofts)

Ping 3.0 Eye2 Glide Wedges 54°-58° w/Recoil SmacWrap F3 Flex

2019 Bettinardi QB6 and 2021 Ping Fetch Putter (depends on the greens)

PING Pioneer Cart Bag

Superstroke Cross Comfort Mid-Size Grips

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Posted (edited)
On 4/29/2021 at 8:31 PM, NC Golfer said:

I am a Sr golfer and thought with a slow swing speed, I needed a Sr Shaft. Well, two times, Driver and  3 wood, I went with a Sr shaft and it's been a disaster. I can hardly hit the ball. It made me think, how many lessons are given and not a thought is given to a proper shaft. It might be a bad matching shaft, not a bad swing. 

I’m also a senior golfer (72 years old two months ago) and have been a professional clubfitter for more than 30 years.  I had surgery in November 2020, followed by a series of serious bone, spinal disc and blood infections as a result of that surgery that caused hospitalization for close to a month and a total of three months of heavy doses of antibiotics (six weeks of which were intravenous injections 4x a day).  This caused a great loss of weight, muscle mass and strength, which slowed my clubhead speed about 5 MPH. I’m very unusual for a senior golfer, in that my driver clubhead speed at age 71 was still close to 100 MPH and with a fairway wood about 93-94 MPH.

Because of the loss in clubhead speed to about 93-94 MPH with my driver, and just below 90 MPH with a 3 or 4 wood, I decided to give R-flex (or firm R-flex) shafts a try in my driver and fairway woods when I began hitting balls and then went back to playing golf last month.  As you have experienced, I suffered from control and accuracy problems with my driver and 4-wood (I stopped gaming a 3-wood) when using these softer-flex shafts. Being a Clubfitter, I made sure to select shafts that had EI curves, weights and flex profiles, plus balance points, similar to what I had been playing in S-flex. However, I was hitting too many hooks and pull-hooks with my driver and 4-wood. I had kept the S-flex shafts in my weak 5-wood (closer to a 7-wood at 20* loft) and my 22* hybrid, as well as in my irons.  My control and accuracy remained good to excellent with these clubs, but alas my driver and 4-wood were not working well for me.  I have switched back to stiff shafts in my driver and 4-wood, and in the one round that I played yesterday using this setup, my control and accuracy was much better.  I’m keeping this setup, as well as working on regaining weight, strength, and flexibility, and I suspect that I’ll be continuing with the stiff shafts in all of my clubs (other than the lofted wedges, where I use “firm flex” shafts).

By the way, as another person mentioned in this thread, I have Miyazaki shafts in the driver and my 4-wood and I love the international flex profile numbering system that Miyazaki uses.  It makes the process of matching flex profiles in your shafts to your swing tempo and the type of zone stiffness profile that you prefer in those shafts.

Edited by funkyjudge
Typos

 

Driver: Ping G425 Max, 9*, Miyazaki  Kuala Mizu Tour Issue 6S, 44.75" playing length

4-Wood: Titleist TS2, 16.5*, Miyazaki Kuala Mizu Tour Issue 7S, 42.75" playing length

5/7-Wood: Callaway Epic Flash Sub Zero set to 20* loft; Tensei Blue 75-S, 41.5" playing length

Hybrids: Exotics EXS Pro (22*), Mitsubishi Tensei Silver 75S

Irons: Exotics EXS220 5-iron and New Level MODB-1 (6-iron through PW), KBS TGI Tour 80 (stiff) shafts

Wedges: New Hogan Equalizer wedges (48* and 56* + Maltby TSW Forged 52-8, all bent 1* weak

Putter: Evnroll ER2, 34”with Gravity Grip

Ball: Snell MTBx

Spoiler

 

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PS - I am in agreement with HDTVMAN that shorter shaft length in the driver (and for me, the fairway woods) will do wonders in helping most amateur golfers find the center of the club face and hit longer and straighter shots with those clubs.  I play my driver at 44.5”to 44.75” long and my 4-wood at 42”.  My weak 5-wood is at 7-wood playing length (41.5”) rather than the 42” to 42.5” playing length that you generally find in modern 5-woods.

 

Driver: Ping G425 Max, 9*, Miyazaki  Kuala Mizu Tour Issue 6S, 44.75" playing length

4-Wood: Titleist TS2, 16.5*, Miyazaki Kuala Mizu Tour Issue 7S, 42.75" playing length

5/7-Wood: Callaway Epic Flash Sub Zero set to 20* loft; Tensei Blue 75-S, 41.5" playing length

Hybrids: Exotics EXS Pro (22*), Mitsubishi Tensei Silver 75S

Irons: Exotics EXS220 5-iron and New Level MODB-1 (6-iron through PW), KBS TGI Tour 80 (stiff) shafts

Wedges: New Hogan Equalizer wedges (48* and 56* + Maltby TSW Forged 52-8, all bent 1* weak

Putter: Evnroll ER2, 34”with Gravity Grip

Ball: Snell MTBx

Spoiler

 

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I'm 74 and still play Stiff shafts  and play to a 9-10 (though they're in the middle of the Stiff spectrum---e.g. Project X Stiffs tend to be a little too stiff). I think my driver swing speed is in the middle to high 90's. But I think the main thing is how you swing, and where do you tend to put the most energy. I've seen guys who swing "slowly" and very fluidly throughout the swing who seem to do well with the softer shafts, but if you're a little aggressive on the downswing (I am), you may still do well with a Stiff shaft. And then, of course, there's the kick point which can make a difference in how efficiently you apply energy to the clubhead...Agree with the guys who say, see a fitter.

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Lots of different factors will matter to get you the most optimum ball and launch data for your specific swing.  

As many have correctly stated that shaft flex is often overlooked, but that each manufacturer has there own parameters as to what a sr, regular or stiff truly means.  Another item I feel is overlooked too often is shaft weight.  Can make a very big difference in how you are delivering the clubs. 

That can be the difficult part of fitting, not everyone is going to garner a TXG type experience and are at the mercy of the service rep they are dealing with.  Most of the time that person isn't looking to work through a detailed fitting and more often than not they aren't knowledgeable enough to complete one anyways.  Try and compare as best as you are able and you may be able to find a shaft or head that seems to work consistently for you and will at least help you narrow down to some extent.  Also giving the MGS driver fitting tool could be a benefit to get you started.

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Driver:  image.png.3c6db1120d888f669e07d4a8f890b3f1.pngMavrik Sub Zero 9* (Set to 10) Ventus Blue 6X

2 Hybrid: :titelist-small: 818 H2 Hybrid Tensei Blue 80 X

3 Hybrid: :titelist-small: 818H2 Fujikura Atmos TS Blue 8X

4 Iron - Srixon ZX 23* Recoil F5

Irons 5-PW: :mizuno-small: MP 18 SC Dynamic Gold AMT X

Gap/Sand Wedge:  :titelist-small: Vokey SM6 49*  SM8 54* 

Lob Wedge:  image.png.3c6db1120d888f669e07d4a8f890b3f1.pngJaws 5 Wedge 58* DG Tour Issue Stiff

Putter:  image.png.cca2328f4144a299c795aa9b8f3bf677.png Inovai 6.0              :scotty-small: Pro Platinum Newport 2 35"  

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Posted (edited)

I'm 74 and hate senior flex shafts.  They feel totally DEAD to me.  I play a Project X Evenflow Riptide 5.5 and it's perfect.  Shaft wgt is super important.  I've dropped down to the 50 gr. series and it helped.

Edited by warbirdlover

What's In the Bag

TaylorMade Sim Max 10.5° driver w/5.5 Evenflow Riptide 50 shaft & std GolfPride Tour Velvet +4 grip
Tour Edge Exotics EXS 220 3-wood w/reg Fuijikura Air Speeder 40 shaft & std Lamkin Z5 TT grip
Tour Edge Exotics EXS 220 3-hybrid w/reg KBS 70 shaft & std GolfPride Tour Velvet +4 grip
Titleist AP1 714 irons 5-PW & GW w/reg True Temper XP95 R300 shafts & std GolfPride Tour Velvet +4 grips
Tour Edge Exotics triple grind 60°/7° sand wedge & std TE grip
Cleveland Huntington Beach soft #11 putter with Winn 1.32" oversize grip
Sun Mountain C-130 Cart Bag
 

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2 hours ago, Agent 87 said:

It's high time the industry as a whole adopted such a system.

It’s not just shaft flex that varies between the various brands. How they measure torque and cpm varies as well. 

31 minutes ago, juspoole said:

Another item I feel is overlooked too often is shaft weight.

Agree. This is probably where most people should start and then the profile next. 

2 hours ago, ZenGolfer said:

If anything, Id say shaft flex is looked at way too much.  Theres been various studies that have show that shaft flex really doesnt matter and its really more of a feel thing.

Feel is from torque and not flex. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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Get fitted by a fitter that comes recommended by good golfers. If you go to anyone that claims they can fit you, be careful. I was fit by someone that had a Trackman who could see my swing speed and launch angle and other pertinent information. Then he got me into a shaft that was right for me after we tried five different shaft(I am a senior). Then he installed the shaft correctly by testing each shaft before he installed them. This is where the amateurs fail most of the time.  My guy has has two of the long distance driving contestants that told me no one touches their clubs accept Al. He is in North Myrtle Beach SC. I will give you his contact information if you ever get down there. Good Luck.

Played golf for over 50 years until my health and business calendar reduced my time to less then 5 rounds a year. Then 4 years ago I retired, changed my diet and lifestyle, lost 100 pounds and got back on the course. Its been a struggle but things are getting better.

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On 4/29/2021 at 5:31 PM, NC Golfer said:

I am a Sr golfer and thought with a slow swing speed, I needed a Sr Shaft. Well, two times, Driver and  3 wood, I went with a Sr shaft and it's been a disaster. I can hardly hit the ball. It made me think, how many lessons are given and not a thought is given to a proper shaft. It might be a bad matching shaft, not a bad swing. 

At 69 yo, my swing speed is not what it once was either.  I have tried Sr. shafts occasionally over the years, and have not had great results with them.  The late Emeritus Pro at my club (Skagit GCC, Washington State) was a fan of everyone hitting stiff shafts even as they got older and slower!  That is a bit extreme, imo.  But his larger point was that distance is less important than accurate and consistent ball striking and that the latter will yield more of the former.   Another comment that I recently heard from a teacher of teaching pros is as we age we lose our sense of balance as much or more than we do our strength.  If the brain senses a loss of balance during the swing sequence, it will signal the body to slow down or even distort the rhythm of the golf swing.   Try stiff or regular shafts while spending some time working on balance with simple exercises such as standing on one leg while brushing your teeth. 

"Hit it hard. It's gotta lamd somewhere."

--Ben Hogan

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I am 70 and hit a regular shaft and then once the nice weather comes I go back to stif.  As almost everyone has said each shaft is different.. The problem with fitting is your using a shaft to get you there and then order the club and shaft that could not feel the same.  But golf is a box of chocolates.

Driver Mavrik Subzero set to 9.5. 
Rougue 4 wood 16.5

Titleist 818 hybrid 21

Callaway Apex pro black dot 4 through P

Callaway Jaws 50/10,, MD 4 56/10, and Titlest SM 6 60/12

SC Futura 5.5

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5 hours ago, ZenGolfer said:

If anything, Id say shaft flex is looked at way too much.  Theres been various studies that have show that shaft flex really doesnt matter and its really more of a feel thing.

What I'm saying is that the ISO system quantifies more than one parameter. It profiles the shaft. Terms like regular, stiff, senior are meaningless. I'd like to see a number given to things like torque. Having said all this one has to understand that a system can only ballpark a shaft. But it's better than what's going on now.

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