Swing Overhaul 2021 - Let's get to work!

[DriverBreaker]

The Swing Issues

I've had it.  The last two rounds I have played were the most horrific ball-striking rounds in recent memory.

For someone 'chasing scratch', I'm not hitting the ball near well enough to even sniff it.  Toe hooks, straight hooks, push fades, fat, thin, topped shots, it feels like I'm a brand new golfer all over again who never swung a club.

So here are the first few things I'm working on:

1) Takeaway

-For most of my recent golfing life, I've been very flat in the backswing, but planed the club well into the slot on the way down.  It was simple, keep it below the plane of glass on the way back and through.  No biggie (see video below):

-Most golf instructors would probably like for me to get my hands a bit higher in the backswing and have more of a 'hands in the catcher's mitt position on the way back.  I get my right arm very bent (more than 90*) and hands close to my right shoulder at the top of the backswing.

Athletic Motion Golf says they've had lots of tour pros on their 3D motion capture and that they have never measured one where the left arm was more than 20* inside the stance line at the top of the swing.  I know I get way 'deeper' than that with how much inside the stance line my lead arm is.  See video below for their thoughts:

This is my first point of emphasis.  I want the hands and club in the catcher's mitt (think of Justin Thomas' pre-shot routine) on the way back so I have room in the downswing to have a more neutral path through impact.

2) Width in the backswing

-When I was a Junior in college, the Tiger Woods commercial (the one where he was in all black and it was a super slow-mo of his swing) was all the rage (see below).  I remember admiring the width he created in his backswing and emulated it.  For the next few years, all my buddies envied the 'width' I maintained.  Over time, I started reading Ben Hogan and studying his swing which lead me down the one-plane and compact swing path.  I've played well with it, but I'm off the rails now.  Too much of a good thing can lead to disaster. 

 

The Plan

For now, the plan will be to work in the garage on these two things.  I'm going to commit to at least 100 reps per day from the start of the backswing to the 'hands in the catchers' mitt position.  From there, I'll take it back to the top feeling width and making sure the lead arm stays within that <20* reference point from the AMG video.  I'll have lines on my matt where I will measure 20* inside the stance line and try to stay in front of that (as my reference point).  I will try to not care about contact for now and just focus on those things.

I'll probably try and film the practice sessions so people interested can have something to follow along with.

Let's get better!

[GolfSpy_APH]

Good luck and hope the changes come somewhat natural. Looking forward to following along and seeing how the progress goes. Will you be still using superspeed? Would any of the sticks help assist with these changes?

[DriverBreaker]

12 minutes ago, Apolloshowl said:

Good luck and hope the changes come somewhat natural. Looking forward to following along and seeing how the progress goes. Will you be still using superspeed? Would any of the sticks help assist with these changes?

No clue if they'll help or not.  I think I'll take this time just to focus on the changes, nothing else.  It will be interesting to see if my speed increases though.  I know the majority of long-drive guys have higher hands and width in their backswings.  Not a lot of compact long-drive champs out there LOL.  I hit it plenty far with the compact swing, but like I said, it has just been crazy erratic lately so time for a change to something more 'standard'.  I know the best of the best all have different looks, but there are some consistencies that are likely good to try and implement where feasible. 

Edited May 3, 2021 by ChasingScratch

[SkilledByDesign]

I have somewhat recently changed to a one plane swing as you have mentioned and it has done a lot for my game. The film will tell you and us a lot about what is going on. My initial thought is that your hands are getting too involved (trying to overcompensate). Have you done any research into Bryson’s single plane swing? I have implemented his techniques into my swing and I’ve never struck the ball better. 
 

Biggest factor for me was the ulnar deviation in the wrists (pointing the toe of the club towards the ground, bringing the line of the shaft from more around waist level to around chest level). 

I would love to hear more about your progress

[cnosil]

Good luck! I seriously mean that because I am struggling with my swing and need help as well. 

[GolfSpy AFG]

1 hour ago, ChasingScratch said:

The Swing Issues

I've had it.  The last two rounds I have played were the most horrific ball-striking rounds in recent memory.

For someone 'chasing scratch', I'm not hitting the ball near well enough to even sniff it.  Toe hooks, straight hooks, push fades, fat, thin, topped shots, it feels like I'm a brand new golfer all over again who never swung a club.

So here are the first few things I'm working on:

1) Takeaway

-For most of my recent golfing life, I've been very flat in the backswing, but planed the club well into the slot on the way down.  It was simple, keep it below the plane of glass on the way back and through.  No biggie (see video below):

-Most golf instructors would probably like for me to get my hands a bit higher in the backswing and have more of a 'hands in the catcher's mitt position on the way back.  I get my right arm very bent (more than 90*) and hands close to my right shoulder at the top of the backswing.

Athletic Motion Golf says they've had lots of tour pros on their 3D motion capture and that they have never measured one where the left arm was more than 20* inside the stance line at the top of the swing.  I know I get way 'deeper' than that with how much inside the stance line my lead arm is.  See video below for their thoughts:

This is my first point of emphasis.  I want the hands and club in the catcher's mitt (think of Justin Thomas' pre-shot routine) on the way back so I have room in the downswing to have a more neutral path through impact.

2) Width in the backswing

-When I was a Junior in college, the Tiger Woods commercial (the one where he was in all black and it was a super slow-mo of his swing) was all the rage (see below).  I remember admiring the width he created in his backswing and emulated it.  For the next few years, all my buddies envied the 'width' I maintained.  Over time, I started reading Ben Hogan and studying his swing which lead me down the one-plane and compact swing path.  I've played well with it, but I'm off the rails now.  Too much of a good thing can lead to disaster. 

 

The Plan

For now, the plan will be to work in the garage on these two things.  I'm going to commit to at least 100 reps per day from the start of the backswing to the 'hands in the catchers' mitt position.  From there, I'll take it back to the top feeling width and making sure the lead arm stays within that <20* reference point from the AMG video.  I'll have lines on my matt where I will measure 20* inside the stance line and try to stay in front of that (as my reference point).  I will try to not care about contact for now and just focus on those things.

I'll probably try and film the practice sessions so people interested can have something to follow along with.

Let's get better!

Not sure of your thoughts/attitudes towards training aids but I think you'll find many users will attest to the PlaneMate being very helpful with ingraining the feels you're describing concerning your takeaway and backswing. 

Just a thought...I'll be following and cheering on.

[DriverBreaker]

44 minutes ago, SkilledByDesign said:

I have somewhat recently changed to a one plane swing as you have mentioned and it has done a lot for my game. The film will tell you and us a lot about what is going on. My initial thought is that your hands are getting too involved (trying to overcompensate). Have you done any research into Bryson’s single plane swing? I have implemented his techniques into my swing and I’ve never struck the ball better. 
 

Biggest factor for me was the ulnar deviation in the wrists (pointing the toe of the club towards the ground, bringing the line of the shaft from more around waist level to around chest level). 

I would love to hear more about your progress

I’ve not looked into Bryson yet.  Baby steps right now and just focusing on one or two rested things at a time.  Thanks for the comments though.  I’ll take a look later.

19 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Good luck! I seriously mean that because I am struggling with my swing and need help as well. 

Thanks bud!  We’re always searching as golfers aren’t we!  This could be a fun thread and maybe one people get some good benefit from.

[DriverBreaker]

10 minutes ago, Getoffmylawn said:

Not sure of your thoughts/attitudes towards training aids but I think you'll find many users will attest to the PlaneMate being very helpful with ingraining the feels you're describing concerning your takeaway and backswing. 

Just a thought...I'll be following and cheering on.

Thanks!  I’m not averse to training aids but am to the cost of some.  

[cnosil]

32 minutes ago, ChasingScratch said:

 

Thanks bud!  We’re always searching as golfers aren’t we!  This could be a fun thread and maybe one people get some good benefit from.

I created my improve the thread since I had read a couple of others and found them interesting and it is a good place for me to document the things I have been doing for future reference.  Not that what works for one person will work for another but that we are all struggling and trying to improve our game in some way;  whether it is breaking 100 or becoming scratch.  

[DriverBreaker]

15 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I created my improve the thread since I had read a couple of others and found them interesting and it is a good place for me to document the things I have been doing for future reference.  Not that what works for one person will work for another but that we are all struggling and trying to improve our game in some way;  whether it is breaking 100 or becoming scratch.  

Yes indeed.  I like the accountability aspect of your own thread.  Let it be a personal log of progress, challenges, frustrations, and successes.  We can cheer each other on, grieve together, and learn together.

[BMart519]

That AMG video has a lot of great nuggets of info, thanks for posting. I need to check out more of their stuff, seems well explained using practical drills without getting too technical. It's nice they measure all these positions and don't have the one size fits all approach and vary things based on body type/dimensions. 

Gankas has some good stuff about getting trail elbow level with trail shoulder at top of backswing as well as trail forearm matching spine angle. I get flat as well and did an experiment one day where I stepped on a tape measure with my lead foot and pulled it out with my hands through my backswing. Higher hand position at the top was 4-6" further from the "ball". That's a lot of extra hand path length to add speed on the downswing. 

[ejgaudette]

Good luck with the changes. I am feeling a bit lost with the swing as well right now so hope this helps you get some better contact in the future. Look forward to following along.

[DriverBreaker]

8 minutes ago, BMart519 said:

That AMG video has a lot of great nuggets of info, thanks for posting. I need to check out more of their stuff, seems well explained using practical drills without getting too technical. It's nice they measure all these positions and don't have the one size fits all approach and vary things based on body type/dimensions. 

Gankas has some good stuff about getting trail elbow level with trail shoulder at top of backswing as well as trail forearm matching spine angle. I get flat as well and did an experiment one day where I stepped on a tape measure with my lead foot and pulled it out with my hands through my backswing. Higher hand position at the top was 4-6" further from the "ball". That's a lot of extra hand path length to add speed on the downswing. 

You're welcome.  I think I respond well to their style.  I appreciate stats and when they show what the tour ranges are, that gives me a visual and goal to shoot for.  There is a reason why none of the tour pros they've measured get their lead arm deeper than 20* inside their stance line.  Soooooooo perhaps that's something to emulate!

8 minutes ago, ejgaudette said:

Good luck with the changes. I am feeling a bit lost with the swing as well right now so hope this helps you get some better contact in the future. Look forward to following along.

Thanks!

[DriverBreaker]

Here is Day 1.  Just a visual for those curious to see what I'm working on and how I'm progressing:

 

[juspoole]

Good luck man - a few of them sounded really solid.  Crazy how much we have to exaggerate a move - then watch it back and it's barely in a different spot than our normal swing.  I'm trying to work on a couple moves as well to try and become a bit more consistent.  Downfall is having that few weeks with so many swing thoughts running around in my head.  I tend to come too steep on the downswing and a little bit over the top

 

[DriverBreaker]

1 minute ago, juspoole said:

Good luck man - a few of them sounded really solid.  Crazy how much we have to exaggerate a move - then watch it back and it's barely in a different spot than our normal swing.  I'm trying to work on a couple moves as well to try and become a bit more consistent.  Downfall is having that few weeks with so many swing thoughts running around in my head.  I tend to come too steep on the downswing and a little bit over the top

 

Oh I know.  Crazy feel difference, but on camera, hardly anything.

[MrBandit]

7 hours ago, ChasingScratch said:

The Swing Issues

I've had it.  The last two rounds I have played were the most horrific ball-striking rounds in recent memory.

For someone 'chasing scratch', I'm not hitting the ball near well enough to even sniff it.  Toe hooks, straight hooks, push fades, fat, thin, topped shots, it feels like I'm a brand new golfer all over again who never swung a club.

So here are the first few things I'm working on:

1) Takeaway

-For most of my recent golfing life, I've been very flat in the backswing, but planed the club well into the slot on the way down.  It was simple, keep it below the plane of glass on the way back and through.  No biggie (see video below):

-Most golf instructors would probably like for me to get my hands a bit higher in the backswing and have more of a 'hands in the catcher's mitt position on the way back.  I get my right arm very bent (more than 90*) and hands close to my right shoulder at the top of the backswing.

Athletic Motion Golf says they've had lots of tour pros on their 3D motion capture and that they have never measured one where the left arm was more than 20* inside the stance line at the top of the swing.  I know I get way 'deeper' than that with how much inside the stance line my lead arm is.  See video below for their thoughts:

This is my first point of emphasis.  I want the hands and club in the catcher's mitt (think of Justin Thomas' pre-shot routine) on the way back so I have room in the downswing to have a more neutral path through impact.

2) Width in the backswing

-When I was a Junior in college, the Tiger Woods commercial (the one where he was in all black and it was a super slow-mo of his swing) was all the rage (see below).  I remember admiring the width he created in his backswing and emulated it.  For the next few years, all my buddies envied the 'width' I maintained.  Over time, I started reading Ben Hogan and studying his swing which lead me down the one-plane and compact swing path.  I've played well with it, but I'm off the rails now.  Too much of a good thing can lead to disaster. 

 

The Plan

For now, the plan will be to work in the garage on these two things.  I'm going to commit to at least 100 reps per day from the start of the backswing to the 'hands in the catchers' mitt position.  From there, I'll take it back to the top feeling width and making sure the lead arm stays within that <20* reference point from the AMG video.  I'll have lines on my matt where I will measure 20* inside the stance line and try to stay in front of that (as my reference point).  I will try to not care about contact for now and just focus on those things.

I'll probably try and film the practice sessions so people interested can have something to follow along with.

Let's get better!

Here is my question, you swing has been pretty much consistent , you have had a repeatable swing.   And you mention your last 2 rounds have been less than stealer, but is it more lack of playing? Then having to redo your swing?  Do you tell Bubba to stop slicing the ball cause is not text book? 

Or is it more of a few teaks and getting out to play more, maybe 2 or 3 holes a week, go bogey free, 1 putt them, be under par on all those 3 holes. then move on to the next.
 
You drive the ball far already, tweaking a few things , your right back on the horse.

 

[DriverBreaker]

19 minutes ago, MrBandit said:

Here is my question, you swing has been pretty much consistent , you have had a repeatable swing.   And you mention your last 2 rounds have been less than stealer, but is it more lack of playing? Then having to redo your swing?  Do you tell Bubba to stop slicing the ball cause is not text book? 

Or is it more of a few teaks and getting out to play more, maybe 2 or 3 holes a week, go bogey free, 1 putt them, be under par on all those 3 holes. then move on to the next.
 
You drive the ball far already, tweaking a few things , your right back on the horse.

 

Maybe, maybe not.  I just think it is so far off the rails that I need to try something new.  We’ll see how it goes.

[DPM]

You need to watch YouTube “be better golf” with Milo Lines and Jay Keel as guest, “golf isn’t what people think.” You are working on the correct problem. But incorrectly. You fight too flat of shoulder turn, then hands are trapped behind. Takes Slide and overturn to recover shaft lean. Inconsistent ball flight. Your first feel should be down with left shoulder and left hand which will start the club rising and wrist cocking. This video shows proper turn and wrist cock.

[DriverBreaker]

5 minutes ago, DPM said:

You need to watch YouTube “be better golf” with Milo Lines and Jay Keel as guest, “golf isn’t what people think.” You are working on the correct problem. But incorrectly. You fight too flat of shoulder turn, then hands are trapped behind. Takes Slide and overturn to recover shaft lean. Inconsistent ball flight. Your first feel should be down with left shoulder and left hand which will start the club rising and wrist cocking. This video shows proper turn and wrist cock.

I think I know which video you are talking about (might have started it once before).  I’ll go watch it this evening.  Right now it’s baby steps.  Just one thing at a time.  Thanks for the comment and suggestion!

[edingc]

This has already started off as a very good thread. I really like the "catcher's mitt" analogy, I'm working on putting something similar into my pre-shot routine to help with my sequencing a bit. I also struggle with coming back really inside at times and always am working to avoid that.

Looking forward to seeing your progress!

[DriverBreaker]

54 minutes ago, edingc said:

This has already started off as a very good thread. I really like the "catcher's mitt" analogy, I'm working on putting something similar into my pre-shot routine to help with my sequencing a bit. I also struggle with coming back really inside at times and always am working to avoid that.

Looking forward to seeing your progress!

Thanks bud!  I really found the Athletic Motion Golf video to be very insightful and useful.  Understanding just how minimal the best golfers’ on the planet get their lead arm moving across their chest gave me a clear goal to shoot for.  I feel like I have a target in mind ve flying blind.

[PMookie]

21 hours ago, ChasingScratch said:

The Swing Issues

I've had it.  The last two rounds I have played were the most horrific ball-striking rounds in recent memory.

For someone 'chasing scratch', I'm not hitting the ball near well enough to even sniff it.  Toe hooks, straight hooks, push fades, fat, thin, topped shots, it feels like I'm a brand new golfer all over again who never swung a club.

So here are the first few things I'm working on:

1) Takeaway

-For most of my recent golfing life, I've been very flat in the backswing, but planed the club well into the slot on the way down.  It was simple, keep it below the plane of glass on the way back and through.  No biggie (see video below):

-Most golf instructors would probably like for me to get my hands a bit higher in the backswing and have more of a 'hands in the catcher's mitt position on the way back.  I get my right arm very bent (more than 90*) and hands close to my right shoulder at the top of the backswing.

Athletic Motion Golf says they've had lots of tour pros on their 3D motion capture and that they have never measured one where the left arm was more than 20* inside the stance line at the top of the swing.  I know I get way 'deeper' than that with how much inside the stance line my lead arm is.  See video below for their thoughts:

This is my first point of emphasis.  I want the hands and club in the catcher's mitt (think of Justin Thomas' pre-shot routine) on the way back so I have room in the downswing to have a more neutral path through impact.

2) Width in the backswing

-When I was a Junior in college, the Tiger Woods commercial (the one where he was in all black and it was a super slow-mo of his swing) was all the rage (see below).  I remember admiring the width he created in his backswing and emulated it.  For the next few years, all my buddies envied the 'width' I maintained.  Over time, I started reading Ben Hogan and studying his swing which lead me down the one-plane and compact swing path.  I've played well with it, but I'm off the rails now.  Too much of a good thing can lead to disaster. 

 

The Plan

For now, the plan will be to work in the garage on these two things.  I'm going to commit to at least 100 reps per day from the start of the backswing to the 'hands in the catchers' mitt position.  From there, I'll take it back to the top feeling width and making sure the lead arm stays within that <20* reference point from the AMG video.  I'll have lines on my matt where I will measure 20* inside the stance line and try to stay in front of that (as my reference point).  I will try to not care about contact for now and just focus on those things.

I'll probably try and film the practice sessions so people interested can have something to follow along with.

Let's get better!

They actually say they’ve never measured 20*, and twice in the videos they show 11*-12*. Be mindful that 20* is almost twice that. I know you’re trying to stay inside 20*, but just pointing out what they show just in-case.

Good luck!!!! I’ve developed a bad habit of taking my club back way inside after years of being “on-plane”, and it’s not fun trying to get back to where it should be. Sounds like you have a great plan and are working that plan. Good stuff!!!! 

[cnosil]

36 minutes ago, ChasingScratch said:

Thanks bud!  I really found the Athletic Motion Golf video to be very insightful and useful.  Understanding just how minimal the best golfers’ on the planet get their lead arm moving across their chest gave me a clear goal to shoot for.  I feel like I have a target in mind ve flying blind.

I think this is why so many players come so inside.  I saw a different video on the same topic and instantly changed my 6+ in to out swing to basically neutral with no loss on the swing.  I am working it back toward the 2/3* point.  This fact was something I never knew and is so insightful that I am surprised that it isn’t a golf fundamental.  

[DriverBreaker]

2 hours ago, PMookie said:

They actually say they’ve never measured 20*, and twice in the videos they show 11*-12*. Be mindful that 20* is almost twice that. I know you’re trying to stay inside 20*, but just pointing out what they show just in-case.

Good luck!!!! I’ve developed a bad habit of taking my club back way inside after years of being “on-plane”, and it’s not fun trying to get back to where it should be. Sounds like you have a great plan and are working that plan. Good stuff!!!! 

Yes, exactly on the 20* (that’s what I wrote in the original post, that they never measured someone over 20*).  It’s just a goal to reach for because I’m so far past 20*, I know they said 11-12*, but baby steps to get there.

Edited May 4, 2021 by ChasingScratch

[DriverBreaker]

45 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I think this is why so many players come so inside.  I saw a different video on the same topic and instantly changed my 6+ in to out swing to basically neutral with no loss on the swing.  I am working it back toward the 2/3* point.  This fact was something I never knew and is so insightful that I am surprised that it isn’t a golf fundamental.  

Yes indeed, it is so drastically different than what many think it should be that knowing what the best do is a big eye opener.  I saw another video where they said 100% of their students (AMG) tell them that the arms move across the chest in the backswing.  Crazy.

[DriverBreaker]

Saw this drill Natalie Gulbis says she is working on.  Notice how it looks like  the arms stay in front of the chest.  Lead arm swings up, not across the chest, similar to the ‘catch drill’ (from AMG) I show in my day 1 video:

https://www.instagram.com/p/COawek_Dcft/?igshid=10625bblzp2cy

Edited May 4, 2021 by ChasingScratch

[SkilledByDesign]

14 hours ago, ChasingScratch said:

Here is Day 1.  Just a visual for those curious to see what I'm working on and how I'm progressing:

 

Started watching the video and it reminded me of this post: https://www.instagram.com/p/COTuDVpt6Ls/?igshid=n4z5qsj7tvz3

I’ve attached the images if you can’t view the link. 
Very interesting that you are taking about lead arm angle at the top of the backswing and this post shows some top tour pros with very close to the same lead arm angle. Wrist hinge and angle tend to vary but the lead arms seem very consistent. 

[DriverBreaker]

6 minutes ago, SkilledByDesign said:

Started watching the video and it reminded me of this post: https://www.instagram.com/p/COTuDVpt6Ls/?igshid=n4z5qsj7tvz3

I’ve attached the images if you can’t view the link. 
Very interesting that you are taking about lead arm angle at the top of the backswing and this post shows some top tour pros with very close to the same lead arm angle. Wrist hinge and angle tend to vary but the lead arms seem very consistent. 

Yes!!!  Apparently there is a big illusion because cameras see in 2D rather than 3D.  In the backswing, to us watching on TV it looks like they all have their lead arms pinned across their chests or inside the line.  But when looking in 3D or from above, that lead arm is only 11-12 degrees inside that stance line.  Again, the Athletic Motion Golf videos really changed how I view this.  There is another guy named Jim Waldron who was discussing this illusion back in the 1990s (see link here).

Edited May 4, 2021 by ChasingScratch

[DriverBreaker]

Good progress was made today.  I continued the drills I did yesterday but exaggerated the 'up' portion of the backswing a bit more.  I made another short video of what I did today and how things unfolded.  Take a look if interested. I ended up getting really close to a true 'one plane' swing, where the backswing plane and downswing plane match up with the shaft angle at address.  Usually, I am inside and under the plane on the backswing, but back on the plane in the downswing.  

Here is the video:

I started out with too much under and inside, and a little to much above the plane on the downswing, but by the end, I was spot on.  Here is a sequence of the swing: