Premier Golf League now Super Golf League - Are the top players underpaid?

[vandyland]

I don't know if this will go anywhere but I can kind of see both sides of the argument for pro/against PGL/SGL. On the one hand, there are so many faceless tour players (I'm looking at you Tyler Duncan) that make a lot of money but add almost nothing to the tour as an entertainment product. Compare that to Tiger or Rory or DJ who are household names and make way more via endorsements but not *that* much more via on course earnings. Or at least not in a way that reflects their outsized impact on the game. Also, the PGA Tour building a super expensive and fancy headquarters when they are a *ahem* charitable organization was kind of shocking. 

The flip side is that if the main person shilling for the PGL/SGL is Phil Mickelson, that is a tough look. The guy is so money focused it's unbelievable. Now today Rickie Fowler comes out saying it's an interesting idea. Literally who cares what Rickie thinks, the guy is not even inside the Top 100 in the World but I have to see his mug on like 8 different commercials and he is ALWAYS on PGA Tour Live. Basically, how much money do these guys need? And what happens to the PGA Tour if the PGL/SGL succeeds? Also, is the PGL/SGL going to be no cut events? That kind of sucks. 

[fixyurdivot]

I hope it goes nowhere and that money does not ruin pro golf as it has for most all other sports.  In all likelihood, however, it will. Greed is real.

[Crashtestdummy]

The top players in the world will not want to go unless much later in their career. The entire focus of the top players is to win majors because that is what their careers are defined by. However, to me more big money tour events is better around the world because the PGA tour and Korn Ferry tour is so impacted. There are some big names on the Korn Ferry tour that are major winners or multiple PGA tour winners. Not sure if the PGL or SGL is the answer, but I'm pretty sure a lot of  players struggling to get on the PGA tour or back to the PGA tour would be interested in playing big money events around the world even if they are not on the PGA tour. There are still a lot of markets where golf hasn't really broken into. 

[GolfSpy_APH]

NLU had a longer segment of one of their podcasts on this. It was interesting to listen through and someday something like this may take traction and gain player that is needed to make it successful, however now that there are 2 competing opposite leagues to the PGA I believe hurts both of having a chance of success. Had it been 1 with a more focused effort, maybe, however now with 2 it dilutes the quality of what it could become and in the end I feel makes it less attractive for the players to go to. Yes there will be some that will want to go out and make that extra money and get into the spotlight more and for some it could be greatly beneficial for their games, but what could the PGA possibly to do to prevent players from going? 

I don't quite see it as a threat to top names leaving, most make so much money that we can't imagine and the extra incentive of money doesn't make that big of a difference for them. It will continue to be a back burner story which is all well fine and good, but until a top name jumps ship I think that is the most it will be. 

[revkev]

Does this discussion resume now that a late in golfing life big name has won a major? 
 

Wondering what impact Phil’s win has on this.  Does it make him more or less likely to be one who jumps? 

[GolfSpy_APH]

16 minutes ago, revkev said:

Does this discussion resume now that a late in golfing life big name has won a major? 
 

Wondering what impact Phil’s win has on this.  Does it make him more or less likely to be one who jumps? 

I would say less likely. Winning the PGA in the fashion he did she the thrill he would have felt from the crowd and atmosphere isn't something that will be replicated from the PGL or SGL anytime soon. 

I do also recall seeing something where the PGA could revoke a players membership if they left... It all seems like a lot for the players to risk if true.

[RickyBobby_PR]

If they pros are going to lose out on OWGR points which gets them into Majors and WGC events they aren’t going to jump ship for some other league. 
 

The guys outside the top 50 or may be even top 100 aren’t going to draw sponsorship money or the eyeballs to a super league or whatever name someone chooses.

The PGA is going to protect its product and put money where needed to keep the faces that drive the revenue to host events and pay out the prize money.

At the end of the day whatever entity comes along they will have to find a way to allow the players to have access to the majors and other big tournaments.

[revkev]

1 hour ago, Apolloshowl said:

I would say less likely. Winning the PGA in the fashion he did she the thrill he would have felt from the crowd and atmosphere isn't something that will be replicated from the PGL or SGL anytime soon. 

I do also recall seeing something where the PGA could revoke a players membership if they left... It all seems like a lot for the players to risk if true.

I would tend to agree and I've also read that the European Tour has made the same threat.  I suppose those players would not loose their exemptions into the Masters and the Opens but I would only imagine this being beneficial for two reasons - First, it is a boatload of money - if you believe that the money is greater than what you will make on tour plus endorsements - some of which will continue should you leave - then it might still be tempting.  Second, if your game is starting to lag behind and either you physically can't or don't want to put in the effort to keep up - but let's face it, what world class athlete is ever going to admit that - even to himself internally.  If they are teeing it up it's because they think they can win.  

[fixyurdivot]

On 5/27/2021 at 7:18 AM, revkev said:

I would tend to agree and I've also read that the European Tour has made the same threat.  I suppose those players would not loose their exemptions into the Masters and the Opens but I would only imagine this being beneficial for two reasons - First, it is a boatload of money - if you believe that the money is greater than what you will make on tour plus endorsements - some of which will continue should you leave - then it might still be tempting.  Second, if your game is starting to lag behind and either you physically can't or don't want to put in the effort to keep up - but let's face it, what world class athlete is ever going to admit that - even to himself internally.  If they are teeing it up it's because they think they can win.  

Lee Westwood "... it's no brainer".  Though to be fair he falls squarely into that latter group.  I don't think it (PL) is going to gain traction - particularly with the recent mountain of bonus bucks the PGA recently created.  

[DiscipleofPenick]

I'll join. Let's call it the every man tour. Take a bunch of 5-10 hcps players and we'll play the same courses and see what we shoot. Find some investors to bank roll and bam!

[HardcoreLooper]

On 5/27/2021 at 7:19 AM, revkev said:

Does this discussion resume now that a late in golfing life big name has won a major? 
 

Wondering what impact Phil’s win has on this.  Does it make him more or less likely to be one who jumps? 

The discussion isn't going to go away.  Phil loves the spotlight, loves money, and loves tweaking authority figures.  He's not going to come out against SGL/PGL.  At minimum, he's going to use it as leverage.  My personal feeling (no information backing this) is that we'll see appearance fees on the PGA Tour at some point.  Stop the PIP nonsense, distribute that money to the tournaments, and let them use it to try to strengthen their fields.

 

 

 

[sixcat]

Exceptional reporting in this piece.  More details to be released later this week.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/golf/57382968

"But he admits there have been no discussions with the American-based PGA Tour. He also revealed that his organization came close to a deal with the European Tour before the two established circuits formed their strategic alliance last November."

[RollingGreens]

You need the big names in golf to move the needle and get the money to back it. If it gains traction the tour may have to rethink its stance. Because they’ve made it clear that if you leave you’re done for good. 

[fixyurdivot]

1 hour ago, RollingGreens said:

You need the big names in golf to move the needle and get the money to back it. If it gains traction the tour may have to rethink its stance. Because they’ve made it clear that if you leave you’re done for good. 

Haven't their been players who moved to the European Tour or Asian Tour and back to the PGA Tour?  I'm guessing such a stance would be tested in the courts and the PGA would lose.

[sixcat]

Below is copied and pasted directly from the linked article above.  I suspect, many players at the highest level feel the same way.  The PGA Tour has no control over who the PGA Championship, Masters, USGA and R&A invite to their championships.  The PGA Tour would have no choice but to acquiesce.  And that's not even considering the legal ramifications of anti-trust laws. 

England's Lee Westwood has said it would be a "no-brainer" if he was offered $50m to play in a breakaway league

[RickyBobby_PR]

3 hours ago, sixcat said:

Below is copied and pasted directly from the linked article above.  I suspect, many players at the highest level feel the same way.  The PGA Tour has no control over who the PGA Championship, Masters, USGA and R&A invite to their championships.  The PGA Tour would have no choice but to acquiesce.  And that's not even considering the legal ramifications of anti-trust laws. 

England's Lee Westwood has said it would be a "no-brainer" if he was offered $50m to play in a breakaway league

But all those majors use world ranking points and other exemptions like winning on tour during a certain period of time, exemptions from winning majors, money list positions. Are they all going to change their qualifications to play in them to players who have fallen off the qualification list because they are playing on a tour/league that doesn’t earn any world ranking points, position on the money list on the pga or euro tours? 
 

Guys like Westwood and others that have name recognition but are at the tail end of their careers won’t move the needle for the premier league to have any foothold and the stars that are needed I can’t see given up the chance to play in majors. Tour wins and specially majors are how golfers are viewed in terms of success 

[RollingGreens]

13 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Haven't their been players who moved to the European Tour or Asian Tour and back to the PGA Tour?  I'm guessing such a stance would be tested in the courts and the PGA would lose.

Yes. Also what’s the relative difference when a couple of the high profile guys skip a tour event to go play in Dubai for the big payout? I get the tour is worried about losing their cash cows but maybe they should look at taking advantage of these hot streaming and tv deals to provide more money to the pool. It seems all other major sports mlb,nba, and nfl are taking full advantage of their tv deals for salaries through the roof

[sixcat]

11 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

But all those majors use world ranking points and other exemptions like winning on tour during a certain period of time, exemptions from winning majors, money list positions. Are they all going to change their qualifications to play in them to players who have fallen off the qualification list because they are playing on a tour/league that doesn’t earn any world ranking points, position on the money list on the pga or euro tours? 
 

Guys like Westwood and others that have name recognition but are at the tail end of their careers won’t move the needle for the premier league to have any foothold and the stars that are needed I can’t see given up the chance to play in majors. Tour wins and specially majors are how golfers are viewed in terms of success 

You don't think the PGA, Masters, R&A, USGA and OWGR will change qualifying categories and ranking points to include the PGL if they do indeed land the top 48 ranked players in the world?  PGA Tour strength of field ratings will also dwindle if the top 48 players in the world are playing somewhere else.

I'm not saying I like this or that it's definitely going to happen.  I'm just saying, basing an opinion on the PGL being impossible because of ranking points or qualifying is naive, at best.  Those things are easily changed!

[RickyBobby_PR]

44 minutes ago, sixcat said:

You don't think the PGA, Masters, R&A, USGA and OWGR will change qualifying categories and ranking points to include the PGL if they do indeed land the top 48 ranked players in the world?  PGA Tour strength of field ratings will also dwindle if the top 48 players in the world are playing somewhere else.

I'm not saying I like this or that it's definitely going to happen.  I'm just saying, basing an opinion on the PGL being impossible because of ranking points or qualifying is naive, at best.  Those things are easily changed!

I could see the USGA and R&A not changing  for tradition and out of spire. Their two majors are Opens and that’s a wide range of golfers and they could easily say golfers in the PGL can go thru the qualifying process. Not sure about the PGA and the masters is an invite so they could easily change their rules for who gets invites.

As for strength of field in PGA events it’s not based on who the player is but the ranking of the players. So as guys currently in the top ranking drop someone else takes over their spot so the strength of field doesn’t change, but rather the participants and their rankings.

I don’t see the top 48 in the world jumping ship without knowing that they will still have the opportunity to participate in majors and WGCs. To date there’s been no comments from the 4 organizations responsible for the majors on what they would do, the PGA tour isn’t going to change the WGC process and lastly there’s been nothing that I’ve seen indicating how many events the PGL will hills which if they don’t have a lot of events I don’t see the world rankings being carried over. Guys like Spieth, Fowler and some others dropped out of the top 50 pretty quickly while playing poorly. Guys that aren’t playing at all and this not accumulating points are going to fall out even faster.

Its interesting to watch but IMO the guys that are still in their prime are chasing majors and tour wins in their quest to be the best. They may not have goals like tiger did but I’m betting they want to have as many tour wins as possible and as many majors they can get. 

[sixcat]

6 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I could see the USGA and R&A not changing  for tradition and out of spire. Their two majors are Opens and that’s a wide range of golfers and they could easily say golfers in the PGL can go thru the qualifying process. Not sure about the PGA and the masters is an invite so they could easily change their rules for who gets invites.

As for strength of field in PGA events it’s not based on who the player is but the ranking of the players. So as guys currently in the top ranking drop someone else takes over their spot so the strength of field doesn’t change, but rather the participants and their rankings.

I don’t see the top 48 in the world jumping ship without knowing that they will still have the opportunity to participate in majors and WGCs. To date there’s been no comments from the 4 organizations responsible for the majors on what they would do, the PGA tour isn’t going to change the WGC process and lastly there’s been nothing that I’ve seen indicating how many events the PGL will hills which if they don’t have a lot of events I don’t see the world rankings being carried over. Guys like Spieth, Fowler and some others dropped out of the top 50 pretty quickly while playing poorly. Guys that aren’t playing at all and this not accumulating points are going to fall out even faster.

Its interesting to watch but IMO the guys that are still in their prime are chasing majors and tour wins in their quest to be the best. They may not have goals like tiger did but I’m betting they want to have as many tour wins as possible and as many majors they can get. 

I'd be shocked if fewer than 30 of the top 48 wouldn't jump into the PGL wide open. The world ranking system has changed a dozen times over the years. If it changes to include those playing in the PGL, PGA Tour ranking points would drop by a significant margin.

Again, lots of "if's" in the PGL scenario. But money talks and they have more than the PGA Tour! That money could easily change the golf landscape as we know it.