Joining a Country Club?

[chisag]

... I have really never been interested in joining a CC for a variety of reasons but since I am now living in Phoenix and can play year round I am considering it. Lots of questions and it probably isn't an ideal fit for what I want but I would love to her from those of you that belong to a CC. Here are some of my issues/concerns:

1. After so may years of doing my own work and taking care of my on clubs, I really don't like being helped with my golf equipment. I don't want someone "wiping down my clubs" with a dirty rag when I take care of my clubs as I play. I don't want someone taking my bag to my car and do not plan on leaving my bag at the course. 

2. I eat organic/grass fed and can't imagine a CC has that kind of food in their restaurant so I am probably not interested in spending any money there although a cheat meal once in a blue moon isn't out of the question. 

3. I don't drink so a bar is not something I am interested in either. 

4. I walk with a remote cart and don't need a cart but imagine the intense heat of a summer in Phoenix with temps above 110 may change that for June-September. 

... What I am interested in is a great golf course with members I can play golf with. Mens league and tournaments. Practice facility is a nice touch but with a twice surgically repaired back I don't practice much. So I am probably not a great fit for a CC but hopefully some of you have made it work for you and I appreciate your thoughts in advance!

[MattF]

Just my 2c. You might want to see if there's memberships available at a really nice muni instead. A CC membership usually includes some sort of monthly/quarterly spend for food but a membership at a muni wouldn't include that.

[RollingGreens]

I just joined a semi private club that fits the generals mold you are looking for. Lots of clubs leave it up to you for what you want, you’re paying them. If you don’t want them to touch your clubs they generally figure it out. Some clubs don’t allow tipping during the year so the general hustle of the clubs boys is more even keel. The club events are great the hard part is many of the tournaments only exist in semi private or country club settings. Get a feel for the club vibe prior to joining see if they can get you out on member guest days. You don’t want to be paying for something you don’t enjoy. I see plenty of older gentleman walking at my club. Their is usually a good menu and plenty of options for breakfast/brunch, lunch and dinner for food at the club or Food to go.  Even if you don’t drink I have seen some of my thriftier friends use their club minimum to buy beer or wine. Outside of the food minimum just check to see when the last assessment was. You don’t want to get stuck paying for something you haven’t been around for yet. Assessments can be quite expensive. 

[tony@CIC]

We've belonged to a couple of clubs here in Ohio, with the current one about 15 years. We are now searching for the right club near our Condo in Florida - we think we've settled on a club. Some thoughts/questions for you as a starter:

Given your location and it catering to seasonal residents you might check into those that offer a golf only package. This past winter we joined a semi private club that offers unlimited play for 350/mo for my wife and myself + cart fees. This included unlimited range balls. At 11/ bucket this turned out to be a pretty good deal for me.  FYI, this past year neither one of us was interested in league play and dining privileges'.  

My wife and I tried 6 different Clubs/courses within  a 15 minute drive before we decided on the one mentioned. It was not the most cost effective, however it was more challenging than the cheapest. Guess the point here is; play the course before you decide on it. Even the private clubs will let you do it. Note, the private clubs will want you to play with a member(s) which is great because you can get the real answers to your questions.  Obviously, playing the course also gives you a lot of insight into upkeep including equipment like carts.  

As @RollingGreens mentioned, ask about assessments, or costs above and beyond membership dues.  Food minimums? I know you mentioned you have dining preferences which we typically wouldn't consider club food. If there is a food and beverage minimum, don't discount the club, since if you're playing in a league or informal group they'll probably want to go to the club's bar/grill after. 

Ask who owns/runs the club. Equity clubs (owned and run by the members) can come with it's own set of potential issues. If corporate owned; will you have reciprocity with other clubs in the corporate umbrella. If they do - what are the additional costs for playing the other courses such as cart fee. 

What are the less obvious benefits of joining a particular club - for instance can you play even after the Proshop is closed. At our Club here in Ohio, we can go out anytime we want. Our Proshop closes at 5:00 so being able to go out in the evening for a quick 9 is really nice. Can you make tee times online and how far in advance. Additional costs for league and other events?

If you decide to walk will they still be charging you a trail fee and is it at the same rate as if you were using their cart. 

Will they structure the payments (with no finance charge) over a time period and if so what is your obligation if you chose to leave. 

I'm sure there are many other points to consider. 

 

[bens197]

@chisagi’m in a similar dilemma myself  

My brother in law (wife’s sister’s husband) continues to subtly ask when we’ll finally join their club.  He’s a legacy and while I love the course and the amenities, I looooaaaaatthhee the fake small talk and gossip that inhabit all country clubs.  12 years working this caliber club has shown me they all have commonalities. 
 

As mentioned, I would third the vote for a semi-private joint. For what you’re looking for it may hit most of the check marks that you’re seeking. 

[Tom the Golf Nut]

Your location is typically a high dollar membership area. Initiation fees are high. Being that you won't take advantage of most of the benefits they have to offer, it would probably be best to go to a golf course only type of facility even if it is public. Some of them will have prefered tee times for members. We have that in my area for a very reasonable fee. It's east Tennessee so $700 a year for unlimited golf. Just pay a cart fee if you don't want to walk. 

I belong to a full country club but again East TN is cheap. No initiation fee or waived if you sign up for two years. Less than $300 a month for full family and full usage (pool, tennis courts, golf course, dining). Food minimum is $25 a month. But we raised our kids there so to speak. Didnt have to do the day care thing or summer activity programs. Didn't need it, they had everything for the kids to do to keep busy. Free tennis, swim and golf lessons for kids. Playground area was there too.

But back to you. Doing the golf only club has benefits because it is cheaper, no long term commitment.  After a couple of years if you get bored playing the same course, you can move to another one. They all have events you can get involved in. That is what I will do if I decide to downsize and move. Last one graduates high school in two weeks. Then off to college.

[CarlH]

I belong to a private CC.  I don't drink,  I rarely use the restaurant for dinner and can meet my quarterly minimum by lunches.  I opt to utilize club storage, but many of our members don't have anyone touch their clubs -- it's purely an optional thing (Only the most posh clubs are going to require the use of a caddy or valet). Most of our members either use their own private cart and their clubs never leave their cart or they load and unload their clubs at their car on their own.  We have members that ride in their own or provided carts, members that walk with push carts, remote control carts, and carry their bags.  We have 400 golf members and over 700 social members.  Rounds never go over 4 hours (except some tournaments), we can always get a tee time, have club hosted member tournaments, and groups that arrange group play times.  We also have members that play with only a few friends or by themselves.  We're fortunate to have 27 holes and the way they're arranged allows for a full 18 or a quick 9.  Our practice facilities are great and we can always find the space to practice.  Mornings are generally crowded, but afternoons are generally easy to walk on for a tee time.  

If you are financially sound to meet the dues, CC has many advantages.  Obviously, every club is a bit different, but I'm sure that you can find one in your locale that will suit your needs.

Our muni/semi-private clubs in our area have constant 5 hour rounds, far too many weekend tournaments that you are unable to play the course on weekends, tough getting a tee time, and generally unable to show up as a walk-on and get out in a reasonable amount of time.  For ME, the CC environment is such a bonus that the costs are well worth it.  Obviously, your mileage will vary.

Sound advice is to get a tour at the clubs, find out what works and doesn't work, talk to other members to find out what the staff won't mention.  Good luck finding a course to call your home.

[bens197]

And just to add one more thing…

Its nice to see that I’m not the only one that can’t stand other people touching my clubs. Thanks for normalizing this behavior

[TBT]

I’ve been looking at clubs in my area but unfortunately here in Houston private clubs are outrageously priced and even the municipal course that I play most often is right at $300 a month for just me to play golf plus a $15 cart fee per round and it seems like they have charity tournaments every weekend that blocks out half the day so you can’t even play when you want.

 

[CarlH]

20 minutes ago, TBT said:

I’ve been looking at clubs in my area but unfortunately here in Houston private clubs are outrageously priced and even the municipal course that I play most often is right at $300 a month for just me to play golf plus a $15 cart fee per round and it seems like they have charity tournaments every weekend that blocks out half the day so you can’t even play when you want.

 

Yep.  Larger cities tend to have the higher priced CC.  Rural areas and smaller cities will tend to have more "blue-collar" golf clubs.  Frequency of play will also dictate how acceptable those monthly dues can be.  Our club has zero initiation fee currently because of the pandemic situation.  Probably not as likely to see that in a city the size of Houston.

[Nolan220]

Yeah seems like semi private would work best. My problem is the price .. will I play more golf Bc I have the membership .. probably but nothing that would justify the cost ... but I think the real perk for me is to just show up and play that won’t be pack .. where I am at the muni course get packed talking about an over 5 hour round. 

[revkev]

Well I think you’re seeing what I would expect - all over the map and much of it sectional.

 

You really have to check for yourself to see if there’s a club in your area that has what you want.  There may well be.

 

I’m going contrarian here on one thing though.  My experience is that the best players, the ones you want to play with, are found either at a club that has a strong course or a muni - they are very unlikely to frequent “semi-private” facility. Doesn’t mean that scenario doesn’t exist just that I haven’t seen it. 
 

Write down what you want and start searching. Good luck 

[TBT]

8 hours ago, CarlH said:

Yep.  Larger cities tend to have the higher priced CC.  Rural areas and smaller cities will tend to have more "blue-collar" golf clubs.  Frequency of play will also dictate how acceptable those monthly dues can be.  Our club has zero initiation fee currently because of the pandemic situation.  Probably not as likely to see that in a city the size of Houston.

Yeah, I looked at a private club closest to me, it’s very nice 3 - 9 hole tracks all done by Robert Trent Jones...it’s gorgeous!

Initiation fee is $15,000 and it’s $550 per month with a $100 food and beverage minimum

[Tom the Golf Nut]

On 5/9/2021 at 7:44 AM, bens197 said:

And just to add one more thing…

Its nice to see that I’m not the only one that can’t stand other people touching my clubs. Thanks for normalizing this behavior

I finished my round yesterday but noticed someone left a score card and a range finder cover in the passenger cubby. I saw the Pro and walked over to him to turn them in. I turned around and my clubs were gone. Panic moment. The only way out was passed me, so they couldn't have been stolen. That doesn't happen here but it was Demo Day. Called the pro back over. Then we walked into bag storage and there they were. Panic over. But I was sick for 5 minutes. One of the kids that work in the pro shop took them off and put them in storage and was going to take the cart back to the shed for recharging.

Nobody touches my clubs. Private club or not. Then the Pro said just leave them here I know you will be here tomorrow morning. I just can't do it. If my wife didn't take up so much room in the bed, the clubs would be there. Heck I don’t even want a locker in the men's lounge. I don't want to be tied down. If I want to play somewhere else, practice at home, I want to be able to just go do it and not have to run back to the club.

[Tom the Golf Nut]

1 hour ago, TBT said:

Yeah, I looked at a private club closest to me, it’s very nice 3 - 9 hole tracks all done by Robert Trent Jones...it’s gorgeous!

Initiation fee is $15,000 and it’s $550 per month with a $100 food and beverage minimum

Now that's interesting. Its not the name its the location. My club is a Robert Trent Jones. Zero initiation fee, 1/2 the monthly dues, 1/4 the food minimum. Its all about supply and demand.

[chisag]

12 minutes ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

Now that's interesting. Its not the name its the location. My club is a Robert Trent Jones. Zero initiation fee, 1/2 the monthly dues, 1/4 the food minimum. Its all about supply and demand.

 

... What do Monthly Dues normally cover? 

[Kenny B]

I'm not a member of a CC (because I'm cheap frugal), but I am a member of a generally nice... what they call an "upscale" muni.  It's nice enough, and being a member gets us 1/2 off at the sister course across the river.  The pace of play can vary depending on the day.  We teed off today at 9am and played in 3 hours 15 minutes.  However, we played one day where the 2 hour mark came on the 6th tee.    Being members, we just quit and came back later in the day when people started going home.

One of the things I wish we had were "reciprocals" like many CC have.  The nicer the CC the more and better reciprocals they have.  Clubs in my area have reciprocals all over the PNW that can be played for just cart fee, or free if you walk.  I do get tired playing the same course, which is why we travel a few times a year to play golf, and always January-February where it's warm; but only for a couple of weeks.  That may change this next year...  more later.

[Tom the Golf Nut]

9 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... What do Monthly Dues normally cover? 

For the most part, all the golf, including cart (free cart not typical other places) pool and tennis court usage, access to dining room and all club functions. Ability to rent out the ball room for personal events for a small fee.. There are extra charges for special events. Member Guest and Member Member tournments, Ryder Cup and such. But if you place you get pro shop credit.

Forgot the reciprocal  membership at other private courses. I think we have three. Cart fee only to play. I don’t do it much they are all a hour away or more.

[CarlH]

2 hours ago, TBT said:

Yeah, I looked at a private club closest to me, it’s very nice 3 - 9 hole tracks all done by Robert Trent Jones...it’s gorgeous!

Initiation fee is $15,000 and it’s $550 per month with a $100 food and beverage minimum

food minimum seems a bit on the steep side.  Monthly dues are not too bad, but the $15K buy in tells me that the club likely has near full capacity or a wait list, despite the current conditions.

I live in a much smaller city -- no initiation fee, food minimum is $150 per quarter (currently suspended since our governor keeps closing our restaruants), and the monthly dues are a bit lower than that club...around $450 for full membership, but there are other memberships available at lesser costs (single member, junior member, executive member -- geared toward younger family which converts to full membership depending on age of member.  Like everything else, rising labor costs push dues higher.

[Kenny B]

A couple of other things...  we have one private CC in town.  From what I hear they are building a new(er) clubhouse or remodel, I'm not sure.  They just built the one they have a little over 20 years ago and it's quite nice!!!  I would ask what are the plans for any new construction, remodel, new irrigation system, course renovation, etc.  I knew a guy that was a member of a very old CC in SC that was redoing their irrigation, and the club came to the 200 members and requested $15K each.

Also, ask about how the sale of your membership works.  At our one CC when you want to sell, the club does the selling... not you.  You get put on a list... at the bottom... and the others for sale are sold first.  If it's a hot market, it may not be too bad, but when I started playing golf in the early 1990's, there were a lot of memberships for sale and they didn't sell quickly.  I think memberships were around $5K buy-in back then.

[Tom the Golf Nut]

30 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

A couple of other things...  we have one private CC in town.  From what I hear they are building a new(er) clubhouse or remodel, I'm not sure.  They just built the one they have a little over 20 years ago and it's quite nice!!!  I would ask what are the plans for any new construction, remodel, new irrigation system, course renovation, etc.  I knew a guy that was a member of a very old CC in SC that was redoing their irrigation, and the club came to the 200 members and requested $15K each.

Also, ask about how the sale of your membership works.  At our one CC when you want to sell, the club does the selling... not you.  You get put on a list... at the bottom... and the others for sale are sold first.  If it's a hot market, it may not be too bad, but when I started playing golf in the early 1990's, there were a lot of memberships for sale and they didn't sell quickly.  I think memberships were around $5K buy-in back then.

And that's what I like about my area. I want to join.... ok, fill out the application. When will it be approved. You can start tomorrow.  Hey I want to resign. Ok see ya. We will send you your last bill at the end of the month. 

[chisag]

... Lots of great responses so thanks to all. I am paying around $500-750 a month to play public courses so similar monthly dues at a nicer track for s similar price would be an upgrade. The main thing I would like is to find some good golfers to play with on a nice course where members take care of the greens and fairways. Some friendly competition and some tournaments as well as a mens league that wasn't about drinking and riding in carts more interested in having fun than playing golf. I have no problem at all with mens leagues that are all about fun, just not of interest to me especially since I don't drink. 
 

... Being new to Phoenix I have made a few golfing friends I play with every now and then, but no solid partners or people I can spend time with away from the course. Finding new friends is never easy but with Covid, being in a new town and not working here I feel like a CC might be a way to find some golf partners and maybe some new friends. As many have said, finding the right fit is the challenge. 

... Thanks again for all the responses! 

[Kenny B]

12 minutes ago, chisag said:

... Lots of great responses so thanks to all. I am paying around $500-750 a month to play public courses so similar monthly dues at a nicer track for s similar price would be an upgrade. The main thing I would like is to find some good golfers to play with on a nice course where members take care of the greens and fairways. Some friendly competition and some tournaments as well as a mens league that wasn't about drinking and riding in carts more interested in having fun than playing golf. I have no problem at all with mens leagues that are all about fun, just not of interest to me especially since I don't drink. 
 

... Being new to Phoenix I have made a few golfing friends I play with every now and then, but no solid partners or people I can spend time with away from the course. Finding new friends is never easy but with Covid, being in a new town and not working here I feel like a CC might be a way to find some golf partners and maybe some new friends. As many have said, finding the right fit is the challenge. 

... Thanks again for all the responses! 

Talk to a few of the pros in the area; certainly ones where you are considering membership, but also pros at public courses. In my area (about 300K population) all the local pros know each other.  They may have some insights into which clubs might have what you are looking for.  On my last trip to Phoenix I remember something about on certain days a bunch of pros play high $$ on a regular basis.  Also, when I traveled a lot, I got a lot of information about courses from the major golf retailers; i.e.,  PGA Tour Superstore, and there has to be some local fitters that know the pros at clubs in the area.

[bens197]

12 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

Talk to a few of the pros in the area; certainly ones where you are considering membership, but also pros at public courses. In my area (about 300K population) all the local pros know each other.  They may have some insights into which clubs might have what you are looking for.  On my last trip to Phoenix I remember something about on certain days a bunch of pros play high $$ on a regular basis.  Also, when I traveled a lot, I got a lot of information about courses from the major golf retailers; i.e.,  PGA Tour Superstore, and there has to be some local fitters that know the pros at clubs in the area.

This is a great idea. 2nd that @Kenny B

[sixcat]

@chisag, not all club memberships are created equally.  Here is my experience.  I will try to remain brief while being as detailed as possible. 

I was once a member of a club managed by one of those conglomerates that was strictly in business for profit.  Seemingly every time I turned around, the membership was being nickeled and dimed to death.  I stayed three years and resigned.  I was not interested in joining another club, ever.

My wife convinced me to buy stock in a stock-equity club a few years later.  She grew up as the daughter of parents who owned stock-equity in the same club.  The contrast is remarkable.  The club is a non-profit organization.  We only do golf and nothing else.  The shop has equipment and merchandise deals with FootJoy, Under Armour, TItleist, Ping, TaylorMade and Callaway.  Equipment and merchandise prices for club members are typically cost plus 10%.  For instance, I just bought a Titleist TSi2 driver with HZRDUS Smoke Black RDX shaft for $450 plus tax.  Try buying that club anywhere else for $100 more than that!  I have a closet full of FJ Lisle shirts, pullovers, and Under Armour quarterzips I get for $40 to $50.   

The membership is solid.  We have 370 dues paying members who are active in the club.  The course is always in great shape.  Can get a bit busy on the weekends but nothing unmanageable.  The club runs some outstanding tournaments throughout the year.  The Invitational is a regional "open" (Pros and Am's) event that we have hosted for over 60 years.  People come from hundreds of miles away to play it.  The best part to me is the lack of a tee-sheet.  No tee-times, no reservations, and no bullshit.  Show up, pair up, and play.  The membership does a great job of policing itself. 

I will never be a member of anything other than stock-equity again!  They are harder and harder to find these days.  Some were mismanaged and forced to sell.  Some dove head-long into aquatics centers, fitness centers and the like to keep up with the conglomerates.  I firmly believe a stock-equity golf club, if well managed, is heaven on earth!

[Tom the Golf Nut]

1 hour ago, sixcat said:

  The best part to me is the lack of a tee-sheet.  No tee-times, no reservations, and no bullshit.  Show up, pair up, and play. 

That is a big plus that I missed in my posts. I haven't had to make a tee time in 15 years. We don't even have tee time sheets. No crowds, no wait, less than three hour rounds. Show up walk to the first tee and your off. The only time I need to make a tee time is when I play somewhere else. Plenty of groups to play with if you choose. 

[xBAGGS]

I going to add nothing other than support for what @MattF said.  Def sounds like a CC is not what you are looking for.  You would want to know too if the club allows push carts.  Some clubs do not (mine).  Only carry or carting it.  Might be different in PHX though.  I view the club as a social experience for myself and family.  We go to the pool, the family will play golf together.  Prior to pandemic,  I could get on the course anytime I wanted.  Now with work from home, its a little different.  Pace of play isn't an issue at a CC but could be at even a semi-priv club with memberships. 

I would think that you could save your money and have less of the nagging feeling of needing to use the CC amenities by going to a public or semi-private membership route.  Checks all your boxes. 

[THEZIPR23]

18 hours ago, TBT said:

Yeah, I looked at a private club closest to me, it’s very nice 3 - 9 hole tracks all done by Robert Trent Jones...it’s gorgeous!

Initiation fee is $15,000 and it’s $550 per month with a $100 food and beverage minimum

I live in one of, if not the lowest income counties in CA. This is normal in the area. There is only one club with that high of initiation fee but the dues at almost all of them run between $500-$600/month. I pay $325 as a non equity member at my club. That is a percentage of full dues and no minimums. If I wanted to play a public course in the area on a weekend morning it is $75-$95 per round (huge increase in last year) and its 4.5 hrs plus. Golf is thriving and while it will balance at some point there was a point in time in my area that this was completely normal.

 

@chisag I think you can find what you are looking for. I would meet my minimums just having lunch after the round once a week. My clubs are not touched by anyone but me and I know that if I want to I can go find a money game or just a game for fun. Some of the best resources you could lean on are the guys working behind the desk. Most of them are welcoming and will give inside information without too much prodding. IMO if it is in your budget joining a club that fits you is a great experience. 

[GaDawg]

On 5/9/2021 at 7:44 AM, bens197 said:

And just to add one more thing…

Its nice to see that I’m not the only one that can’t stand other people touching my clubs. Thanks for normalizing this behavior

I was invited to a high end club a couple of years back and figured I should allow the gentleman to retrieve my clubs from the suv, etc. ( I never allow anyone to touch my clubs) Of course, he dropped them on the asphalt! My clubs are always in mint condition. Several of my irons had nicks, etc, on them and my driver had a nick too. I just lost my mind and went ape s___! on the guy. I know it was just golf clubs, but probably a bag of $1500 or more. 

I have not since or will never allow anyone to touch my clubs. 

[bens197]

3 hours ago, GaDawg said:

I was invited to a high end club a couple of years back and figured I should allow the gentleman to retrieve my clubs from the suv, etc. ( I never allow anyone to touch my clubs) Of course, he dropped them on the asphalt! My clubs are always in mint condition. Several of my irons had nicks, etc, on them and my driver had a nick too. I just lost my mind and went ape s___! on the guy. I know it was just golf clubs, but probably a bag of $1500 or more. 

I have not since or will never allow anyone to touch my clubs. 

Totally get it dawg...when I worked at clubs this became a habit to just ask...may I grab you clubs for you?  

For those who don't care about others touching them, it's a touch of class.  For those like us who do, it's an acknowledgment and respect.  You can't lose.