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New driver problems.


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I recently switched from an 10.5 M5 to a (10 @10.75) Tsi3 both with CK Pro orange X . However with this new driver, i am launching the ball at about 21-21 degree with ~4500rpm with ~115 chs and high 160s in ball speed. Only hitting the ball about 250 yards at most which is about my 5 wood! What can i do to change this? Is the high launch angle causing the high spin? What can i do swing wise to help this?

I should add that i have been working on a swing change however i am hitting every clubs phenomenally. 

Thanks for your helps!

Honma TW747 at 10,5 deg w 50gr SR shaft

Taylormade M6 3 wood w stock S shaft

Titleist U500 2iron hzrdus 6.0

Mizuno MP 18 MB with KBS Tour 105

Titleist Vokey SM8 

Titleist Scotty Cameron Coronado.

 

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10 minutes ago, JohnCam said:

I recently switched from an 10.5 M5 to a (10 @10.75) Tsi3 both with CK Pro orange X . However with this new driver, i am launching the ball at about 21-21 degree with ~4500rpm with ~115 chs and high 160s in ball speed. Only hitting the ball about 250 yards at most which is about my 5 wood! What can i do to change this? Is the high launch angle causing the high spin? What can i do swing wise to help this?

I should add that i have been working on a swing change however i am hitting every clubs phenomenally. 

Thanks for your helps!

Any chance you can get on GC Quad or Trackman or something that can give you club head data? Strike point and so on. That could help a lot diagnose what is going on and where some of your troubles may be. Other then that loft it down to see if that helps. What was your M5 numbers as well where are your weights set? Finally post a video of the swing? Maybe then some can see and help with some more professional advice then I can give. 

 ⛳🛄 as of Sept 24, 2020

SuperSpeed 2020 from 100-112 and climbing!

Driver:   :callaway-small: Epic Sub Zero - Set at 10* with Aldila Rogue Max 65 gram 

Wood:    :cobra-small: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ weight back

               :ping-small: G410 Crossover - 2 and 4 iron

Irons:     :ping-small: i210 5-U w/ Nippon Modus 105 stiff (2018 Tester)

Wedge:  :ping-small: Glide 2.0 54* 58* w/ Nippon Modus 105 Stiff

Putter:   :odyssey-small: Stroke Lab 7 35* and oversized grip (2019 Tester)

Balls:      :srixon-small: Z Star

Other:     :Arccos: 360 (Caddie)

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7 minutes ago, Apolloshowl said:

Any chance you can get on GC Quad or Trackman or something that can give you club head data? Strike point and so on. That could help a lot diagnose what is going on and where some of your troubles may be. Other then that loft it down to see if that helps. What was your M5 numbers as well where are your weights set? Finally post a video of the swing? Maybe then some can see and help with some more professional advice then I can give. 

I dont think i can get on a professional monitor right now atleast!

My weights set up are 1 most forward and 1 at the middle of the track, quite close to the other one.

I just read something about ball positions to alter the launch angles that i will try, maybe bring it back a bit right now its inline with my left feet.

Honma TW747 at 10,5 deg w 50gr SR shaft

Taylormade M6 3 wood w stock S shaft

Titleist U500 2iron hzrdus 6.0

Mizuno MP 18 MB with KBS Tour 105

Titleist Vokey SM8 

Titleist Scotty Cameron Coronado.

 

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1 minute ago, JohnCam said:

I dont think i can get on a professional monitor right now atleast!

My weights set up are 1 most forward and 1 at the middle of the track, quite close to the other one.

I just read something about ball positions to alter the launch angles that i will try, maybe bring it back a bit right now its inline with my left feet.

That could be where you are seeing a lot of differences. I do recall from a TXG M5 video a few years back where Matty basically could not get the ball in the air because it was such low spinning driver... along the lines of lowest they have ever tested and then putting the weights forward makes it even lower. 
Switching to the Tsi3, which more similar to a M6 type where the weight is further back and has a naturally higher spin profile then the M5 you will see a big big difference between them. Even your swing may have changed to accommodate how the M5 worked for you and now the Tsi3 requires a different swing. 
Again I am by no means a pro and just a golf nerd like a lot of us here and without seeing any swing or really knowing much more about your game that is the best advice/knowledge I can pass along.  

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 ⛳🛄 as of Sept 24, 2020

SuperSpeed 2020 from 100-112 and climbing!

Driver:   :callaway-small: Epic Sub Zero - Set at 10* with Aldila Rogue Max 65 gram 

Wood:    :cobra-small: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ weight back

               :ping-small: G410 Crossover - 2 and 4 iron

Irons:     :ping-small: i210 5-U w/ Nippon Modus 105 stiff (2018 Tester)

Wedge:  :ping-small: Glide 2.0 54* 58* w/ Nippon Modus 105 Stiff

Putter:   :odyssey-small: Stroke Lab 7 35* and oversized grip (2019 Tester)

Balls:      :srixon-small: Z Star

Other:     :Arccos: 360 (Caddie)

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3 minutes ago, Apolloshowl said:

That could be where you are seeing a lot of differences. I do recall from a TXG M5 video a few years back where Matty basically could not get the ball in the air because it was such low spinning driver... along the lines of lowest they have ever tested and then putting the weights forward makes it even lower. 
Switching to the Tsi3, which more similar to a M6 type where the weight is further back and has a naturally higher spin profile then the M5 you will see a big big difference between them. Even your swing may have changed to accommodate how the M5 worked for you and now the Tsi3 requires a different swing. 
Again I am by no means a pro and just a golf nerd like a lot of us here and without seeing any swing or really knowing much more about your game that is the best advice/knowledge I can pass along.  

Yup I see, basically im compensating due to the weights being really forward in my old driver! Thanks for your helps ill look in to a swing change maybe less leaning back or something like that. Ill try to get a swing up!

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Honma TW747 at 10,5 deg w 50gr SR shaft

Taylormade M6 3 wood w stock S shaft

Titleist U500 2iron hzrdus 6.0

Mizuno MP 18 MB with KBS Tour 105

Titleist Vokey SM8 

Titleist Scotty Cameron Coronado.

 

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3 hours ago, JohnCam said:

I recently switched from an 10.5 M5 to a (10 @10.75) Tsi3 both with CK Pro orange X . However with this new driver, i am launching the ball at about 21-21 degree with ~4500rpm with ~115 chs and high 160s in ball speed. Only hitting the ball about 250 yards at most which is about my 5 wood! What can i do to change this? Is the high launch angle causing the high spin? What can i do swing wise to help this?!

 

3 hours ago, JohnCam said:

I dont think i can get on a professional monitor right now atleast!.

Are the spin and launch numbers a guess since you can’t measure on a launch monitor?   When you were purchasing the club what type of numbers were you seeing when comparing the drivers?  
 

Too many unknowns to be able to give you any real advice as there could be many causes.  Spin and launch can be related; but you can have various combinations based on how you deliver the club.  The easiest way to lower your launch is to lower the loft of your driver.  Just because you were in the 10:range with the M5 doesn’t mean that is what you need in the Titleist.  Do you know if your angle of attack is down or up?  Downward has a tendency to increase spin.   Where do you hit the ball on the face? High generally is lower spinning than low on the face.  

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16 minutes ago, cnosil said:

 

Are the spin and launch numbers a guess since you can’t measure on a launch monitor?   When you were purchasing the club what type of numbers were you seeing when comparing the drivers?  
 

Too many unknowns to be able to give you any real advice as there could be many causes.  Spin and launch can be related; but you can have various combinations based on how you deliver the club.  The easiest way to lower your launch is to lower the loft of your driver.  Just because you were in the 10:range with the M5 doesn’t mean that is what you need in the Titleist.  Do you know if your angle of attack is down or up?  Downward has a tendency to increase spin.   Where do you hit the ball on the face? High generally is lower spinning than low on the face.  

No it was measured on a little portable monitor that wasnt a gc quad nor a trackman. 

I hit up on the ball, tees are never brokens after shots. I assume its about 10 up. due to the launch minus the loft?

Misses are generally high on the clubface!

Honma TW747 at 10,5 deg w 50gr SR shaft

Taylormade M6 3 wood w stock S shaft

Titleist U500 2iron hzrdus 6.0

Mizuno MP 18 MB with KBS Tour 105

Titleist Vokey SM8 

Titleist Scotty Cameron Coronado.

 

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Very odd that you hit up as you do and hit higher on the face.  Historically those are recipes for high launch (which you have) but low spin. 

In my experience, M5 was the lowest spinning head I've ever tried.  I normally am a higher spin player due to a slight descending/neutral blow on driver and the M5 was only giving me 1800 spin on average with several unplayable knuckleballs below 1400.  

The TSI3 is very low spinning as well. 

Totally guessing on this as you really need to see some data or video to come to some conclusion.  The only other thing I can think of is that you are cutting across it somehow for that spin.  Could also be a shaft that doesn't fit your swing as well with the different head weight and the deflection is not timed properly, but with the same shaft I wouldn't think that large of difference.

What is your standard ball flight?

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Driver:  image.png.3c6db1120d888f669e07d4a8f890b3f1.pngMavrik Sub Zero 9* (Set to 10) Ventus Blue 6X

2 Hybrid: :titelist-small: 818 H2 Hybrid Tensei Blue 80 X

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Putter:  image.png.cca2328f4144a299c795aa9b8f3bf677.png Inovai 6.0              :scotty-small: Pro Platinum Newport 2 35"  

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, juspoole said:

Very odd that you hit up as you do and hit higher on the face.  Historically those are recipes for high launch (which you have) but low spin. 

In my experience, M5 was the lowest spinning head I've ever tried.  I normally am a higher spin player due to a slight descending/neutral blow on driver and the M5 was only giving me 1800 spin on average with several unplayable knuckleballs below 1400.  

The TSI3 is very low spinning as well. 

Totally guessing on this as you really need to see some data or video to come to some conclusion.  The only other thing I can think of is that you are cutting across it somehow for that spin.  Could also be a shaft that doesn't fit your swing as well with the different head weight and the deflection is not timed properly, but with the same shaft I wouldn't think that large of difference.

What is your standard ball flight?

I totally forgot about this!

Its a slice on my miss hits. Otherwise im hitting a fade. I think part of it is the swing change and my ball position being too forward. I think Im coming over the top 

because back with the old swing and the old driver i was hitting low duck hooks. So then i gradually move the ball forward as an effort to kinda hit it higher. and i guess unconsciously starting to shift the path out to in.

I also shift my grip weaker than before.

 

Thank you so much!

 

Edited by JohnCam

Honma TW747 at 10,5 deg w 50gr SR shaft

Taylormade M6 3 wood w stock S shaft

Titleist U500 2iron hzrdus 6.0

Mizuno MP 18 MB with KBS Tour 105

Titleist Vokey SM8 

Titleist Scotty Cameron Coronado.

 

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24 minutes ago, JohnCam said:

No it was measured on a little portable monitor that wasnt a gc quad nor a trackman. 

I hit up on the ball, tees are never brokens after shots. I assume its about 10 up. due to the launch minus the loft?

Misses are generally high on the clubface!

Portable launch monitors aren’t always that accurate regarding spin.   Based on that response I’ll assume you just purchased the Titleist without any comparison to your current driver on the same launch device.  
 

broken tees don’t always indicate descending AoA; a large percentage of PGA pros are decending with driver and they don’t always break their tee.   10 up would be Bryson and Kyle Berkshire type AoA.  If you are that high, I would suggest getting it into the normal golfer 2-5 range as that will reduce you launch angle significantly. 
 

Where is your typical impact location, not your miss.  Slightly above center is ideal as it produces better launch spin characteristics.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  Bellum Winmore 787

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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1 minute ago, cnosil said:

Portable launch monitors aren’t always that accurate regarding spin.   Based on that response I’ll assume you just purchased the Titleist without any comparison to your current driver on the same launch device.  
 

broken tees don’t always indicate descending AoA; a large percentage of PGA pros are decending with driver and they don’t always break their tee.   10 up would be Bryson and Kyle Berkshire type AoA.  If you are that high, I would suggest getting it into the normal golfer 2-5 range as that will reduce you launch angle significantly. 
 

Where is your typical impact location, not your miss.  Slightly above center is ideal as it produces better launch spin characteristics.  

Yes generally higher than the sweet spot. Ill try to do hit less up on the ball!

Is the launch minus the driver loft equals the AoA?

Honma TW747 at 10,5 deg w 50gr SR shaft

Taylormade M6 3 wood w stock S shaft

Titleist U500 2iron hzrdus 6.0

Mizuno MP 18 MB with KBS Tour 105

Titleist Vokey SM8 

Titleist Scotty Cameron Coronado.

 

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33 minutes ago, JohnCam said:

I hit up on the ball, tees are never brokens after shots. I assume its about 10 up. due to the launch minus the loft?

 

5 minutes ago, JohnCam said:

ts a slice on my miss hits. Otherwise im hitting a fade. I think part of it is the swing change and my ball position being too forward. I think Im coming over the top

These two statements contradict each other if you are over the top that leads to a negative angle of attack and usually swiping across the ball which would be the slice miss you reference.

hitting up on the ball which is a positive angle of attack and usually comes from and inside out swing. 

 

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

 

These two statements contradict each other if you are over the top that leads to a negative angle of attack and usually swiping across the ball which would be the slice miss you reference.

hitting up on the ball which is a positive angle of attack and usually comes from and inside out swing. 

 

i have no idea :)) then i guess the fact that the tees werent broken did not reflect my AoA. 

Since my launch angles are 21 ish therefore my dynamic loft is about 20~23 therefore my spin loft is more than 23 ish which means that its too high and explains the high spins.

I dont think launch angles correlates to AoA.

Edited by JohnCam

Honma TW747 at 10,5 deg w 50gr SR shaft

Taylormade M6 3 wood w stock S shaft

Titleist U500 2iron hzrdus 6.0

Mizuno MP 18 MB with KBS Tour 105

Titleist Vokey SM8 

Titleist Scotty Cameron Coronado.

 

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12 minutes ago, JohnCam said:

i have no idea :)) then i guess the fact that the tees werent broken did not reflect my AoA. 

Since my launch angles are 21 ish therefore my dynamic loft is about 20~23 therefore my spin loft is more than 23 ish which means that its too high and explains the high spins.

I dont think launch angles correlates to AoA.

Based on previous posts those are just assumptions since you are assuming your aoa is 10 up.

as mentioned by others getting on a launch monitor that can read more data than a personal launch monitor his going to help. Also recording hour swing and seeing what you are doing is going to help as well. 
 

 

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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9 minutes ago, JohnCam said:

Is the launch minus the driver loft equals the AoA?

No.   Also the loft of the club does not necessarily equal the loft at impact; that is sOmething called dynamic loft.   A vertical shaft at impact would be essentially be delivering the club at the stated loft. 
This is why you question is so hard to answer; there are lots of interrelated variables and without knowing them we don’t know what you are actually doing in your swing. 

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
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Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
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17 minutes ago, JohnCam said:

i have no idea :)) then i guess the fact that the tees werent broken did not reflect my AoA. 

Since my launch angles are 21 ish therefore my dynamic loft is about 20~23 therefore my spin loft is more than 23 ish which means that its too high and explains the high spins.

I dont think launch angles correlates to AoA.

You seem to be using the wrong formulas and information too calculate your data.  
 

The easiest way to lower launch is the lower the loft of your head. 

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
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Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
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Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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You could get the best of both worlds by finding an instructor who uses a launch monitor to look at your swing and the numbers and identify they best way to improve your tee game

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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11 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

You could get the best of both worlds by finding an instructor who uses a launch monitor to look at your swing and the numbers and identify they best way to improve your tee game

This!

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Driver: :ping-small: G400 Max 9 degree set to +1, Aldila Extreme Green 55 gram R shaft 

Fairway: :taylormade-small: M4 3W (16.5*) Hybrids: :taylormade-small: M6 3,4, & 5 -- stock R shafts.

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