Jump to content

Do urethane balls roll truer than surlyns?


Recommended Posts

I finally did a putting test with some Titleist Pro V1 and Callaway Chrome Soft compared to various 2 piece balls.  Is it my imagination, or are 2 piece balls more likely to react to every little irregularity on the surface whereas the urethane 4 piece premiums continue straight?  Do they have higher forward momentum, or something like that, their forward motion is less interrupted by very small random flotsam and jetsam, versus the 2 or 3 piece Surlyn / Ionemer balls that ramble around whenever they encounter a tiny elevation change or this flotsam and jetsam?

 

I spent about 2 hours over 2 days, with some Pro V1s and Callaway Chrome Soft that are probably 2 or 3 years old but unused.  I am used to Pinnacles. I have played them about 70% or 80 % of my time, I like the way they feel on full swings.  I have not gotten around to playing a few rounds with different balls and keep track of what happens.  But I could tell immediately on the practice green.  Am I imagining things?  The urethanes also feel like they are lighter, but roll longer.  I have to hit them more lightly for the distance.  Which physics could validate, if a ball wanders around more, it takes more energy to reach the finish line.

  • Like 1

Driver  Callaway Epic on Recoil F2 (senior) flex

Three wood is TM Burner Superfast 3.0 on M (mature) flex

3H Old Adams A3OS red boxster on stock Graffaloy Platinum reg shaft

3 MP 18 MMC and 4 GFF hybrid Mizuno irons

5 Mizu hybrid Fli-hi

6 - W Ping I 500 irons on Recoil F3 reg flex shafts

Wedges:  Mizuno blue 52 09, 60 06, and old original Hogan Sure-out 56 14 sand

Chipper (yep I carry a chipper) old Don Martin Up n In bronze 

Putter Musty wood mallet, sometimes switch with my Scotty Cameron Futura X counter weight face balanced

Link to comment
Share on other sites

“I have to hit them more lightly for the distance.”

Any difference in the ball rolling on a low impact strike like a putt is due to the stroke (as you mentioned above it appears that your stroke is different depending on the ball construction). The cover material makes no difference once the ball is moving. 

:titelist-small:  915D3

:titelist-small:  909F2

:titelist-small:  690.CB

:titelist-small:  Vokey SM5

:ping-small:  iWi D66

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Storm, My comparison between 4 piece urethane vs. 2 or 3 piece surlyn was that I didn't have to hit the 4 piece as hard as the surlyn.  I didn't change my stroke based on what I was hitting.  I noticed the difference once I tried them.  Or is it a delusion?  Over several hours on the practice green where I practice most.  Hitting 3 Pro V1s and then hitting 3 Pinnacles.  Various distances.  I swear the Pro V (and Callaway Chrome) rolled with fewer little side mvmts than the Pinnacles. 

The cover is only part of the difference, they 2 types of balls are very different inside.  And my thinking is that the cover material alone can make a difference, if one is very soft/elastic and the other is stiff/brittle.

Driver  Callaway Epic on Recoil F2 (senior) flex

Three wood is TM Burner Superfast 3.0 on M (mature) flex

3H Old Adams A3OS red boxster on stock Graffaloy Platinum reg shaft

3 MP 18 MMC and 4 GFF hybrid Mizuno irons

5 Mizu hybrid Fli-hi

6 - W Ping I 500 irons on Recoil F3 reg flex shafts

Wedges:  Mizuno blue 52 09, 60 06, and old original Hogan Sure-out 56 14 sand

Chipper (yep I carry a chipper) old Don Martin Up n In bronze 

Putter Musty wood mallet, sometimes switch with my Scotty Cameron Futura X counter weight face balanced

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

With the ball lab results as my guide, my opinion would be that the quality control may be the biggest difference. 

Edited by 2puttbogey
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Donn lost in San Diego said:

Storm, My comparison between 4 piece urethane vs. 2 or 3 piece surlyn was that I didn't have to hit the 4 piece as hard as the surlyn.  I didn't change my stroke based on what I was hitting.  I noticed the difference once I tried them.  Or is it a delusion?  Over several hours on the practice green where I practice most.  Hitting 3 Pro V1s and then hitting 3 Pinnacles.  Various distances.  I swear the Pro V (and Callaway Chrome) rolled with fewer little side mvmts than the Pinnacles. 

The cover is only part of the difference, they 2 types of balls are very different inside.  And my thinking is that the cover material alone can make a difference, if one is very soft/elastic and the other is stiff/brittle.

I think it's  a delusion.  The weights of the ball (assuming conforming) are basically the same and with a putter in your hand you aren't compressing the ball enough for the cover or # of layers to make a perceptible difference in the distance the ball travels. 

The feel of the ball may be different and perhaps that is what you are sensing

I also think it's impossible for you to accurately determine which ball is moving more "side to side".  There are just too many variables in play to get meaningful results.  Unless you are a robot, you can't make the exact same stroke on the putt over and over again and the ball is probably not starting in the exact same place either so there are two big things that could affect the ball roll off the bat.  Not to mention the grain of the putting surface will also have an effect, even if you did hit the ball exactly the same from the exact same spot, rolling the ball over it would have an affect on the next ball that rolls on that same line.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

FLSW19, that is exactly what I noticed as soon as I started this comparison.  Then I added in Callaway Chrome Soft, which is a ureth, not to be confused with their Soft or Super Soft. The word Chrome in their line = ureth.  Almost same putt as the Titleist.  They just seemed to roll straighter and longer.  Maybe the 2 piece balls I used were not fair, they were not new, they were stuff I had in my bag.  I have some new 2 piece balls, will try this again with new vs new.  

Driver  Callaway Epic on Recoil F2 (senior) flex

Three wood is TM Burner Superfast 3.0 on M (mature) flex

3H Old Adams A3OS red boxster on stock Graffaloy Platinum reg shaft

3 MP 18 MMC and 4 GFF hybrid Mizuno irons

5 Mizu hybrid Fli-hi

6 - W Ping I 500 irons on Recoil F3 reg flex shafts

Wedges:  Mizuno blue 52 09, 60 06, and old original Hogan Sure-out 56 14 sand

Chipper (yep I carry a chipper) old Don Martin Up n In bronze 

Putter Musty wood mallet, sometimes switch with my Scotty Cameron Futura X counter weight face balanced

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think a big part of "feel" for a ball is the sound it makes off the face, and that is definitely a noticeable difference between urethane and surlyn balls. I think ChiTown is right in that with a putter you aren't hitting it hard enough to lead to any measurable performance differences. Once the ball is rolling, random grains of sand or sideways blades of grass would have a bigger impact than the ball composition.

Cobra Connect 5 Competitor!

Driver - :cobra-small:Radspeed XB, Aldila Rogue Silver 70-S
3 Wood - :cobra-small:Radspeed, Aldila Rogue Silver 70-S
5 Wood - :cobra-small:Radspeed, Fujikura Motore X F3 6-S
4 Hybrid - :cobra-small:Radspeed, Mitsubishi MMT 80 S

Irons - :cobra-small:Radspeed 5-GW, KBS $-Taper Lite S
Wedges - :cobra-small:King Cobra Snakebite 52° & 58°, KBS Hi-Rev 2.0 S
Putter - :odyssey-small: Stroke Lab Black Ten 35"
Ball - :srixon-small: Z-Star XV

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have tried a variety of balls on my ExPutt which measures ball speed.  I did not notice any speed differences that would impact the distance the ball travelled.  On real greens given a stroke length I have don’t see a difference in distance or roll quality.
there is definitely a difference in feel between different ball types and different putters.   

  • Like 1

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  :seemore-small: mFGP2

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, Bellum Winmore 787

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One thing that would be really interesting is a blind test. Have a buddy mark up the balls so they know which is which but you can't see the logos. For bonus points, put in some headphones and listen to some music while you putt. The fluid dynamics of how your left ear hears the contact largely determines the 'feel' of the ball, so taking it out of play should help get a more apples-to-apples comparison.

FWIW, I did a ball fitting with Titleist and they said if you put any two balls head-to-head on a launch monitor, with the same putting stroke, there is no difference. Do I think the firmer ball rolls out more and I struggle with distance control? Sure. Is that real? No. It's my left ear saying the 'firmer' (or 'clickier' or however else you want to describe it) ball must be rolling out more. In reality, I'm not putting with the same stroke and a launch monitor would show that.

  • Like 2

Driver: :cobra-small: RADspeed 9* with Motore X F1 60S
4-wood: :callaway-small: Mavrik Subzero (16.5*) with Aldila Rogue White 130 MSI X
2i: :srixon-small: ZX with SteelFiber i95 Stiff
Wet/Soft: 3i-PW
:wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged, KBS Tour-V 110S
Hard/Fast: 4i-7i :srixon-small: ZX7, 8i-PW Z-Forged, Modus3 Tour 120 S

52*, 58* :cleveland-small: RTX ZipCore Modus3 Tour 115
Putter: :cleveland-small: HB Soft Premier 11s

Ball: :srixon-small: Z STAR/XV (but I'm not just going to leave a perfectly good ProV1 laying around...)
Bag: :ping-small: Hoofer (2018) in black/white/copper

Using :Arccos: to keep track of my shots
:SuperSpeed:

All clubs RH

Tested:
:wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged 3i-PW, KBS Tour-V 110S - Official Review
:titelist-small: Blind Ball Test (Ball #3 vs Ball #4) - Unofficial Review

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, greggarner said:

left ear

Well... assuming you're right handed. If lefty, then it's your right ear.

  • Like 1

Driver: :cobra-small: RADspeed 9* with Motore X F1 60S
4-wood: :callaway-small: Mavrik Subzero (16.5*) with Aldila Rogue White 130 MSI X
2i: :srixon-small: ZX with SteelFiber i95 Stiff
Wet/Soft: 3i-PW
:wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged, KBS Tour-V 110S
Hard/Fast: 4i-7i :srixon-small: ZX7, 8i-PW Z-Forged, Modus3 Tour 120 S

52*, 58* :cleveland-small: RTX ZipCore Modus3 Tour 115
Putter: :cleveland-small: HB Soft Premier 11s

Ball: :srixon-small: Z STAR/XV (but I'm not just going to leave a perfectly good ProV1 laying around...)
Bag: :ping-small: Hoofer (2018) in black/white/copper

Using :Arccos: to keep track of my shots
:SuperSpeed:

All clubs RH

Tested:
:wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged 3i-PW, KBS Tour-V 110S - Official Review
:titelist-small: Blind Ball Test (Ball #3 vs Ball #4) - Unofficial Review

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/15/2021 at 4:49 PM, Donn lost in San Diego said:

Storm, My comparison between 4 piece urethane vs. 2 or 3 piece surlyn was that I didn't have to hit the 4 piece as hard as the surlyn.  I didn't change my stroke based on what I was hitting.  I noticed the difference once I tried them.  Or is it a delusion?  Over several hours on the practice green where I practice most.  Hitting 3 Pro V1s and then hitting 3 Pinnacles.  Various distances.  I swear the Pro V (and Callaway Chrome) rolled with fewer little side mvmts than the Pinnacles. 

The cover is only part of the difference, they 2 types of balls are very different inside.  And my thinking is that the cover material alone can make a difference, if one is very soft/elastic and the other is stiff/brittle.

The problem with your anecdotal test is that you have not isolated all variables down to just the balls. As much as you probably think each swing is consistent, a little time on a S.A.M. will prove that it is not as consistent as you may think (if you were to use a swing robot on a consistent, synthetic surface the difference would be non existent assuming both balls were symmetrical and balanced). 
 

It seems that the difference in feel between ball types is influencing your perception of what is actually happening. I encourage you to follow the suggestions above by testing blind/deaf (you will be surprised how much sound influences the perception of feel and how much it can influence stroke). Bottom line, choose the ball that you feel most confident in tee to hole.

  • Like 1

:titelist-small:  915D3

:titelist-small:  909F2

:titelist-small:  690.CB

:titelist-small:  Vokey SM5

:ping-small:  iWi D66

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...