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2 minutes ago, Chip Strokes said:

the average age of all of the winners in the 2020/21 season is 33.34, and the average age of the top 50 OWGR is even younger, at 31.54.

the young talent on tour wins out.  young players are better, more athletic, and there are far more of them now than there ever were before.

phil winning this week was a complete anomaly.  it shouldn't have happened.  the oldest (regular) competitor on tour won on the longest track in major history.  

that speaks only to phil's immense all-time talent, his willingness to consistently reinvent his game, and his ability to perform under pressure.  there's no reason at all to take that away from phil by trying to diminish how good the younger, more athletic players on tour are.  if anything, the tour being as young and as deep as it is only serves to make phil's win even more incredible.

 

On top of this Phil has talked about how hard he worked to focus on fitness in a way he never did early in his early career. I mean just look at the shape he is in now, and those calves, as proof that Phil felt there was no way to stay even remotely relevant without training at least some way like the younger players are. So between a lot of hard work, some luck, and buckets of talent Phil got a big win.

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12 hours ago, TBT said:

You totally ignore the fact that he is one of the 10 best players EVER! In Phil’s prime if he has his “A” game not many of today’s players are in his league...it say much more about Phil keeping himself physically and mentally capable of playing at that level.

If it was just about today’s players being not better than the average player from the 90’s then we would see more guys from the Champions Tour winning on the regular tour.

You are using Tiger and Phil to try to make a point but you aren’t accounting for the fact that they are in a league of their own....you can’t compare average tour players against 2 of the greatest of all time. No more than you could say the the average players in 1986 were no better physical shape than Jack when he won the 86 Masters. Again that was the Greatest off all time turning back the clock for a brief time to win a major.

Nope. The Champions Tour has nothing to do with it. People's skills and athleticism diminish with age. If today's young players were so superior to those of the 1990s, today's older Tiger and Phil would have no chance to compete with them. Yet a diminished older Tiger and Phil are out there beating today's players in majors. This blows out of the water the nonsense idea that Tiger and Phil didn't face as tough competition in their primes as players today.

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35 minutes ago, Chip Strokes said:

phil winning this week was a complete anomaly.  it shouldn't have happened.  the oldest (regular) competitor on tour won on the longest track in major history.

Not to mention this kind of a course layout that is super demanding off the tee has to be about the worst potential track for Phil's game coming into the PGA...just makes it that much more unbelievable that he put together such an incredible week. Even when Tiger won the Masters against the odds, you couldn't deny the course sets up well for him and he's probably forgotten more about Augusta than many of the young bucks even know.

Phil winning this week is crazy, baffling, and absolutely awesome!

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35 minutes ago, Chip Strokes said:

the average age of all of the winners in the 2020/21 season is 33.34, and the average age of the top 50 OWGR is even younger, at 31.54.

the young talent on tour wins out.  young players are better, more athletic, and there are far more of them now than there ever were before.

phil winning this week was a complete anomaly.  it shouldn't have happened.  the oldest (regular) competitor on tour won on the longest track in major history.  

that speaks only to phil's immense all-time talent, his willingness to consistently reinvent his game, and his ability to perform under pressure.  there's no reason at all to take that away from phil by trying to diminish how good the younger, more athletic players on tour are.  if anything, the tour being as young and as deep as it is only serves to make phil's win even more incredible.

@LICCi've waffled on my opinion of you since you've started posting, but now i have to officially consider you a troll.  i think you'd argue with yourself just to listen to your own self-aggrandizing opinions (and we've actually seen that in the screen shots posted in this thread where you called for Phil's meltdown and then praised his win, only then to cheapen it by saying the talent on tour isn't all that good).  

 

Save your sanctimony. I predicted Phil would fall apart but hoped I would be wrong and wanted him to win. After he won, I joked around by saying I believed in him all along. That was sarcastic humor.

I don't diminish today's players at all. I defend the players of years ago from the nonsense argument that they weren't as good as today's young players. The players from years ago and the players today are all equally outstanding. Saying that today's young players are not athletically superior to those from the 1990s is not diminishing them, it is just not falsely glorifying them.

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3 minutes ago, LICC said:

Save your sanctimony. I predicted Phil would fall apart but hoped I would be wrong and wanted him to win. After he won, I joked around by saying I believed in him all along. That was sarcastic humor.

I don't diminish today's players at all. I defend the players of years ago from the nonsense argument that they weren't as good as today's young players. The players from years ago and the players today are all equally outstanding. Saying that today's young players are not athletically superior to those from the 1990s is not diminishing them, it is just not falsely glorifying them.

athletes of today, across all sports, are athletically superior to athletes of 20, 30+ years ago.  that's an undebatable fact.  golf isn't immune to that.  

there's been a monumental shift in how professional athletes train, prepare, and take care of themselves.  almost every player on tour travels with a trainer, physical therapist, or some kind of body work specialist.  they receive treatment pre and post-rounds. most have gyms in their homes so they can train in their off time. 

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6 minutes ago, Chip Strokes said:

athletes of today, across all sports, are athletically superior to athletes of 20, 30+ years ago.  that's an undebatable fact.  golf isn't immune to that.  

there's been a monumental shift in how professional athletes train, prepare, and take care of themselves.  almost every player on tour travels with a trainer, physical therapist, or some kind of body work specialist.  they receive treatment pre and post-rounds. most have gyms in their homes so they can train in their off time. 

There was an argument on my local Sports Radio station about 5 years ago, on whether Pete Maravich could be as effective today as he was in the 60's and 70s.   The guy who was arguing that he could be, totally didn't take into account that he was far faster and more athletic than the guys he played against in the 70's, but he would struggle to play against 6'8' guards of today who were just as fast as he was.    Not saying he couldn't compete at all in today's NBA, but someone like Russell Westbrook would wear him out the whole game. 

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2 hours ago, StrokerAce said:

pretty impressive that he won on the longest course in championship history using a soft golf ball.

so, is soft really slow? 🤔

It’s just a V1x with a paintjob... right?

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15 minutes ago, Chip Strokes said:

athletes of today, across all sports, are athletically superior to athletes of 20, 30+ years ago.  that's an undebatable fact.  golf isn't immune to that.  

there's been a monumental shift in how professional athletes train, prepare, and take care of themselves.  almost every player on tour travels with a trainer, physical therapist, or some kind of body work specialist.  they receive treatment pre and post-rounds. most have gyms in their homes so they can train in their off time. 

They may be in better shape or more fit, but they are in no way athletically superior. Human evolution does not create superior athletic beings in 30 years.

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1 hour ago, Chip Strokes said:

the average age of all of the winners in the 2020/21 season is 33.34, and the average age of the top 50 OWGR is even younger, at 31.54.

the young talent on tour wins out.  young players are better, more athletic, and there are far more of them now than there ever were before.

phil winning this week was a complete anomaly.  it shouldn't have happened.  the oldest (regular) competitor on tour won on the longest track in major history.  

that speaks only to phil's immense all-time talent, his willingness to consistently reinvent his game, and his ability to perform under pressure.  there's no reason at all to take that away from phil by trying to diminish how good the younger, more athletic players on tour are.  if anything, the tour being as young and as deep as it is only serves to make phil's win even more incredible.

@LICCi've waffled on my opinion of you since you've started posting, but now i have to officially consider you a troll.  i think you'd argue with yourself just to listen to your own self-aggrandizing opinions (and we've actually seen that in the screen shots posted in this thread where you called for Phil's meltdown and then praised his win, only then to cheapen it by saying the talent on tour isn't all that good).  

 

Well said that is all

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10 minutes ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

There was an argument on my local Sports Radio station about 5 years ago, on whether Pete Maravich could be as effective today as he was in the 60's and 70s.   The guy who was arguing that he could be, totally didn't take into account that he was far faster and more athletic than the guys he played against in the 70's, but he would struggle to play against 6'8' guards of today who were just as fast as he was.    Not saying he couldn't compete at all in today's NBA, but someone like Russell Westbrook would wear him out the whole game. 

Russell Westbrook would wear out Maravich, but Walt Frazier and Oscar Robertson and Nate Archibald, etc didn't? Hmm, I'm not with you on this one. 

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On 5/22/2021 at 10:16 PM, Shankster said:

It would be Better than Most.

See... it was, in fact, Better than Most.

(most = every golfer in history over 50)

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Happy for Phil, really enjoyed watching him win this week!

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14 hours ago, Mtbryant01 said:

I’ll leave this here. Will update my experience (it was incredible) in my thread at some point in the next couple days. 

IMG_1491.MOV 62.93 MB · 5 downloads

 

I was there with @Mtbryant01 - It was an incredible experience. Still on a high!

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2 hours ago, LICC said:

They may be in better shape or more fit, but they are in no way athletically superior. Human evolution does not create superior athletic beings in 30 years.

You are correct they are not genetically superior; however, training routines and better understanding of the body and how training can be optimized to improve performance has improved in the last 30 years.  The understanding of the skills and mental process to be better athletes has also come a long way since the 90s.  Prior to this week Phil was still one of the top 101 golfers in the world.  His talent, dedication to improving his fitness, and a lot of luck gave him the opportunity to win that tournament.  Phil and Tiger are anomalies like Brady and Brees.  
 

Without question, Today’s athletes are better than the athletes from 30 years ago and there are a lot of factors that get included in that like equipment, technology,  better understanding of the game and strategy, fitness, etc.  All you have to do is look at the athletes from the various decades and you can see vast changes and that they have been built to perform in the specific sport 

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9 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Without question, Today’s athletes are better than the athletes from 30 years ago and there are a lot of factors that get included in that like equipment, technology,  better understanding of the game and strategy, fitness, etc.  All you have to do is look at the athletes from the various decades and you can see vast changes and that they have been built to perform in the specific sport 

I'm not sure this applies to your post, but I remember The Refrigerator Perry being one of the biggest guys in the NFL during his time, but if you look at the OL, and DTs in the game today, they are all as big or bigger than William Perry was.

Edited by M. Parsons
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4 minutes ago, M. Parsons said:

I'm not sure this applies to your post, but I remember The Refrigerator Perry being one of the biggest guys in the NFL during his time, but if you look at the OL, and DTs in the game today, they are all as big or bigger than William Perry was.

As big AND FASTER! I am sure the strain on the muslces and joints these athletes are putting on their bodies will show its ugly head years down the road but the day to day they do for their recovery will play a big part in that as well.

I look at the DK Metcalf 100 he ran a few weeks back. The guy is 3x the size of those guys he raced and only finished a few 100ths behind them......Incredible.

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6 minutes ago, Lacassem said:

As big AND FASTER! I am sure the strain on the muslces and joints these athletes are putting on their bodies will show its ugly head years down the road but the day to day they do for their recovery will play a big part in that as well.

I look at the DK Metcalf 100 he ran a few weeks back. The guy is 3x the size of those guys he raced and only finished a few 100ths behind them......Incredible.

Good point!  And I look at Bryson DeChambeau and I wonder how long it'll be before he has a ton of injuries...but he does build his core really well, so he might last longer than I would think.

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4 hours ago, LICC said:

Nope. The Champions Tour has nothing to do with it. People's skills and athleticism diminish with age. If today's young players were so superior to those of the 1990s, today's older Tiger and Phil would have no chance to compete with them. Yet a diminished older Tiger and Phil are out there beating today's players in majors. This blows out of the water the nonsense idea that Tiger and Phil didn't face as tough competition in their primes as players today.

Here I found a new avatar for you. I’m done wasting my breath with you, you aren’t worth my time

658F3369-350B-4D6E-B7A2-8729E95565CF.png

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My congratulations to Phil on his historic victory.  What I find amusing is all the golf pundits don;t seem to also emphasize how difficult his victory was especially at his age.  The Ocean course is a beast and has one of the highest slope of any course.   He beat the best in the world on the toughest course at 50 years old.  This made his win even more outstanding.   His actions during the round (stopping to give a ball to a spectator), acknowledging his fans,  and afterwards doing numerous photo shoots etc. shows he is the people's champion versus others who seem to snub their fans.   I have followed him at numerous tournaments and his decorum is also excellent and he acknowledges his fans with a lot of his time signing autographs afterwards.   It was definitely a win for the ages.   

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18 hours ago, Mtbryant01 said:

I’ll leave this here. Will update my experience (it was incredible) in my thread at some point in the next couple days. 

IMG_1491.MOV 62.93 MB · 12 downloads

 

That was an awesome video and thank you for sharing it! I can't imagine what the atmosphere there was like, but I bet you guys were pumped to witness history. I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the whole experience. 

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