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1 hour ago, cnosil said:

You are correct they are not genetically superior; however, training routines and better understanding of the body and how training can be optimized to improve performance has improved in the last 30 years.  The understanding of the skills and mental process to be better athletes has also come a long way since the 90s.  Prior to this week Phil was still one of the top 101 golfers in the world.  His talent, dedication to improving his fitness, and a lot of luck gave him the opportunity to win that tournament.  Phil and Tiger are anomalies like Brady and Brees.  
 

Without question, Today’s athletes are better than the athletes from 30 years ago and there are a lot of factors that get included in that like equipment, technology,  better understanding of the game and strategy, fitness, etc.  All you have to do is look at the athletes from the various decades and you can see vast changes and that they have been built to perform in the specific sport 

That's just not true. The athletes of 30-40 years ago in all sports are still considered among the best ever. There is no superior "mental process" of athletes today. Fitness may or may not be better, it probably is to some degree. Enhanced data analytics has led to different strategies and techniques in various sports. But that in no way has made the athletes themselves more skilled or talented.

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4 hours ago, LICC said:

Russell Westbrook would wear out Maravich, but Walt Frazier and Oscar Robertson and Nate Archibald, etc didn't? Hmm, I'm not with you on this one. 

Give Walt Frazier a modern pair of shoes, and let him play the game the way it is allowed to be played today and the differences in their games would shrink a lot.  Watch the video below.  1970's NBA players looked less athletic because their shoes were ice skates compared to today, and they weren't allowed to carry the ball or take massive Euro steps like today.  Bron-Bron gets to take 5 steps and carry the ball whenever he wants.  

David Epstein: Are athletes really getting faster, better, stronger? | TED Talk

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1 hour ago, LICC said:

That's just not true. The athletes of 30-40 years ago in all sports are still considered among the best ever. There is no superior "mental process" of athletes today. Fitness may or may not be better, it probably is to some degree. Enhanced data analytics has led to different strategies and techniques in various sports. But that in no way has made the athletes themselves more skilled or talented.

30-40 years ago there were only a handful of guys who could throw a baseball 100mph

now there are 2-3 on every roster who can cross that threshold. 

centers in the 80s and 90s were flat footed big men who clogged the lane and rebounded, now they do everything from run fast breaks to shoot 3s. 

quarterbacks have become dynamic dual threats. linemen run the 40 in the mid-high 4s now. 

you’re conflating talent and skill with all-time greatness.  you can be an absolute dynamo athletically but never achieve greatness (carl crawford, vince young, reggie bush), and you can achieve legendary status being an athletic everyman (babe ruth, tom brady).

you’re blind to progress or you’re just trolling here. 

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, Chip Strokes said:

30-40 years ago there were only a handful of guys who could throw a baseball 100mph

now there are 2-3 on every roster who can cross that threshold. 

centers in the 80s and 90s were flat footed big men who clogged the lane and rebounded, now they do everything from run fast breaks to shoot 3s. 

quarterbacks have become dynamic dual threats. linemen run the 40 in the mid-high 4s now. 

you’re conflating talent and skill with all-time greatness.  you can be an absolute dynamo athletically but never achieve greatness (carl crawford, vince young, reggie bush), and you can achieve legendary status being an athletic everyman (babe ruth, tom brady).

you’re blind to progress or you’re just trolling here. 

Or you just think you know a lot more than you really do.

Hakeem Olajuwan. Shaquille O'Neal. Patrick Ewing. David Robinson. Alonzo Mourning. Not a clogger among them.

NFL rule changes have made teams change strategies in offense. That is why we see more teams with more mobile running QBs. Not because QBs are more athletic. And the same immobile QB from 20 years ago is still outperforming and winning championships. To say Brady has average athletic ability is ridiculous. He has NFL-level above average arm strength, incredible throwing accuracy, and amazing field vision.

Fastball readings are higher due to a combination of different radar guns and, again, changes in the way the game is managed. Starting pitchers don't throw deep into games anymore, so more specialized pitchers who only have to face a few batters can throw harder. The increases in fastball speeds have been mostly all due to bullpen pitchers.

And golfers today hit it farther because of equipment changes, not from superior talent. Tiger and Phil's competition in the 1990s was just as talented as the field of golfers today.

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9 minutes ago, LICC said:

Or you just think you know a lot more than you really do.

Hakeem Olajuwan. Shaquille O'Neal. Patrick Ewing. David Robinson. Alonzo Mourning. Not a clogger among them.

NFL rule changes have made teams change strategies in offense. That is why we see more teams with more mobile running QBs. Not because QBs are more athletic. And the same immobile QB from 20 years ago is still outperforming and winning championships. To say Brady has average athletic ability is ridiculous. He has NFL-level above average arm strength, incredible throwing accuracy, and amazing field vision.

Fastball readings are higher due to a combination of different radar guns and, again, changes in the way the game is managed. Starting pitchers don't throw deep into games anymore, so more specialized pitchers who only have to face a few batters can throw harder. The increases in fastball speeds have been mostly all due to bullpen pitchers.

And golfers today hit it farther because of equipment changes, not from superior talent. Tiger and Phil's competition in the 1990s was just as talented as the field of golfers today.

You just put Shaq into the conversation of big men today....your argument is null and void. That man couldn’t hit a 3 for his life. He parked his butt in the paint, rebounded and defended. He got fed the ball in the paint that’s it. 
that doesn’t take away from his talent then but he is no where near what the top big Men are today

I only need to respond to that point alone because the rest is the same jargon 

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10 minutes ago, LICC said:

Or you just think you know a lot more than you really do.

Hakeem Olajuwan. Shaquille O'Neal. Patrick Ewing. David Robinson. Alonzo Mourning. Not a clogger among them.

NFL rule changes have made teams change strategies in offense. That is why we see more teams with more mobile running QBs. Not because QBs are more athletic. And the same immobile QB from 20 years ago is still outperforming and winning championships. To say Brady has average athletic ability is ridiculous. He has NFL-level above average arm strength, incredible throwing accuracy, and amazing field vision.

Fastball readings are higher due to a combination of different radar guns and, again, changes in the way the game is managed. Starting pitchers don't throw deep into games anymore, so more specialized pitchers who only have to face a few batters can throw harder. The increases in fastball speeds have been mostly all due to bullpen pitchers.

And golfers today hit it farther because of equipment changes, not from superior talent. Tiger and Phil's competition in the 1990s was just as talented as the field of golfers today.

yes, the 90s was the era of the big man...but like @Lacassem just said, they were largely post players, rebounders, and defensive forces. the big men today are far more dynamic. 

brady has a phenomenal arm. full stop. beyond that i don’t think the man can walk and chew gum at the same time. have you seen his combine tape? he’s a world class quarterback but an average at best athlete. 

guys are throwing harder because of radar guns? really?

why do i keep doing this to myself?

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7 minutes ago, Lacassem said:

You just put Shaq into the conversation of big men today....your argument is null and void. That man couldn’t hit a 3 for his life. He parked his butt in the paint, rebounded and defended. He got fed the ball in the paint that’s it. 
that doesn’t take away from his talent then but he is no where near what the top big Men are today

I only need to respond to that point alone because the rest is the same jargon 

Oh my goodness you have no idea what you are talking about. 
 

 

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3 minutes ago, Chip Strokes said:

yes, the 90s was the era of the big man...but like @Lacassem just said, they were largely post players, rebounders, and defensive forces. the big men today are far more dynamic. 

brady has a phenomenal arm. full stop. beyond that i don’t think the man can walk and chew gum at the same time. have you seen his combine tape? he’s a world class quarterback but an average at best athlete. 

guys are throwing harder because of radar guns? really?

why do i keep doing this to myself?

You obviously never watched basketball in the 1990s. See the video I posted above. 

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1 minute ago, LICC said:

You obviously never watched basketball in the 1990s. See the video I posted above. 

i watched a lot of ball in the 90s. i was a huge jordan and bulls fan 

and again, brady is an all time quarterback with average-at-best athleticism

 

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Just now, Chip Strokes said:

i watched a lot of ball in the 90s. i was a huge jordan and bulls fan 

and again, brady is an all time quarterback with average-at-best athleticism

 

A3EF3D53-C615-46F9-A209-EE5A87BD06EA.jpeg

He has good footwork in the pocket, and excellent arm talent.  Athleticism is not just running fast. Tim Tebow could do that but isn’t in Brady’s league as a QB. 
To compare to golf, John Daly couldn’t run for anything but he had excellent athletic skills. 

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22 hours ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

Just another example of how year in and year out the PGA Championship proves to be the most or one of the most exciting Majors of the year.  

And yet some people want to remove it as a major 

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41 minutes ago, LICC said:

Oh my goodness you have no idea what you are talking about. 
 

 

Yea all star game or pew warm up has some handles. And there are examples of him handling going into the post and slamming the rock in everyone’s face but at his core Shaq was a multi time defensive all star and rebounder. He could also post anyone up in the paint and slam it over the top. He was the last of the true big man. Let me go find all the videos that prove my case and post them SMH

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

And yet some people want to remove it as a major 

Let’s see. This year, outstanding. Last year, good tournament, not any more compelling than the other majors. 2019- good tournament, obviously the Masters blew everything away. 2018, Bellerive, Tiger made it interesting but no more so than Carnoustie. 2017, Quail Hollow, ho hum. 2016, Jimmy Walker at Baltusrol. Pretty good but no Mickelson Stenson duel like at the Open. 2015, Jason Day blowout, overshadowed by Spieth at the Masters and US Open. 2014 was great. 2013 it didn’t compare to Phil and Rose at the Opens. Can just keep going like this. 
 

 

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These discussions and their eventual ending reminds me of the flight of the oozlum bird.

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On course security for the players needs to be better addressed. Didn't learn much from Tiger's mobbing a few years ago.

Phones(cameras) should be banned except in award/interview/meet and greet areas.

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Did anyone else cringe a little when they saw the crowds on 18 and how it looked? I know people are excited and want to get close to the greats and be a part of a historic moment, but I am surprised at how they had to force their way through to the green and how it looked a little out of hand. 
Again I know emotions run high and people are just ecstatic to be part of it, but golf being the sport that it is where thousands of people can basically all hold their breath and not make a sound while someone tees off or hits a putt this was a stark contrast to that. To me it seemed a little ungolflike if that is even a word. 
That and I would love to get this thread back on the actual topic and not the side road its been on for the last few pages....

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2 hours ago, Apolloshowl said:

Did anyone else cringe a little when they saw the crowds on 18 and how it looked? I know people are excited and want to get close to the greats and be a part of a historic moment, but I am surprised at how they had to force their way through to the green and how it looked a little out of hand. 
Again I know emotions run high and people are just ecstatic to be part of it, but golf being the sport that it is where thousands of people can basically all hold their breath and not make a sound while someone tees off or hits a putt this was a stark contrast to that. To me it seemed a little ungolflike if that is even a word. 
That and I would love to get this thread back on the actual topic and not the side road its been on for the last few pages....

Yeah, that was really strange. Don't they usually hold the crowd back with ropes? I'm a little confused how they thought ~15 police officers and event volunteers were going to hold back thousands of people with just their bare arms.

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2 hours ago, Apolloshowl said:

Did anyone else cringe a little when they saw the crowds on 18 and how it looked? I know people are excited and want to get close to the greats and be a part of a historic moment, but I am surprised at how they had to force their way through to the green and how it looked a little out of hand. 
Again I know emotions run high and people are just ecstatic to be part of it, but golf being the sport that it is where thousands of people can basically all hold their breath and not make a sound while someone tees off or hits a putt this was a stark contrast to that. To me it seemed a little ungolflike if that is even a word. 
That and I would love to get this thread back on the actual topic and not the side road its been on for the last few pages....

I think it’s tough to allow crowds like that and then expect it to not get intense. Difficult to corral I’m guessing a majority of those people are not too concerned about the repercussions. 
I for one loved seeing the crowd and personally would have beeen one Probably all in the moment 

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35 minutes ago, Lacassem said:

I think it’s tough to allow crowds like that and then expect it to not get intense. Difficult to corral I’m guessing a majority of those people are not too concerned about the repercussions. 
I for one loved seeing the crowd and personally would have beeen one Probably all in the moment 

I don't blame those at all for getting excited in the moment and following along with what everyone else is doing. Easy to get caught up in it all and just simply be excited. 
I did just see the PGA came out and apologized to the players and others for it getting out of hand and so on. In the moment again I don't blame anyone and it is not as though they were really doing anything wrong, more just surprised to see it as I can't recall ever seeing the green being blocked off from a player being able to access it before! haha
It was great to see crowds back and the excitement for everyone, hopefully for future events people are a bit more restrained and we can still see those iconic moments with massive crowds following along with the epic journeys some of these players are going through. 

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9 minutes ago, Apolloshowl said:

I don't blame those at all for getting excited in the moment and following along with what everyone else is doing. Easy to get caught up in it all and just simply be excited. 
I did just see the PGA came out and apologized to the players and others for it getting out of hand and so on. In the moment again I don't blame anyone and it is not as though they were really doing anything wrong, more just surprised to see it as I can't recall ever seeing the green being blocked off from a player being able to access it before! haha
It was great to see crowds back and the excitement for everyone, hopefully for future events people are a bit more restrained and we can still see those iconic moments with massive crowds following along with the epic journeys some of these players are going through. 

I’ve been seeing videos on my IG feed of moments way back when the fans rush the green after the final putt is made. So funny to see. Really was nice to just see a crowd but they definitely could have instituted a better expectation knowing that crowd was going to be there in the end

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