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21 hours ago, Chip Strokes said:

the average age of all of the winners in the 2020/21 season is 33.34, and the average age of the top 50 OWGR is even younger, at 31.54.

the young talent on tour wins out.  young players are better, more athletic, and there are far more of them now than there ever were before.

phil winning this week was a complete anomaly.  it shouldn't have happened.  the oldest (regular) competitor on tour won on the longest track in major history.  

that speaks only to phil's immense all-time talent, his willingness to consistently reinvent his game, and his ability to perform under pressure.  there's no reason at all to take that away from phil by trying to diminish how good the younger, more athletic players on tour are.  if anything, the tour being as young and as deep as it is only serves to make phil's win even more incredible.

@LICCi've waffled on my opinion of you since you've started posting, but now i have to officially consider you a troll.  i think you'd argue with yourself just to listen to your own self-aggrandizing opinions (and we've actually seen that in the screen shots posted in this thread where you called for Phil's meltdown and then praised his win, only then to cheapen it by saying the talent on tour isn't all that good).  

 

You know those videos where they drop-in the sunglasses on the person, then play some rap music as well, like the person just “owned” someone, or was a straight-up boss/gangsta? Well, that would be quite appropriate here! Good form!

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1 hour ago, ncwoz said:

Yeah, that was really strange. Don't they usually hold the crowd back with ropes? I'm a little confused how they thought ~15 police officers and event volunteers were going to hold back thousands of people with just their bare arms.

Yes, that's how they normally control the crowds when they allow them to backfill the fairway and follow the last group in. I think the event staff just did not execute the plan well... presuming they in fact planned for that?

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12 minutes ago, PMookie said:

You know those videos where they drop-in the sunglasses on the person, then play some rap music as well, like the person just “owned” someone, or was a straight-up boss/gangsta? Well, that would be quite appropriate here! Good form!

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23 minutes ago, PMookie said:

You know those videos where they drop-in the sunglasses on the person, then play some rap music as well, like the person just “owned” someone, or was a straight-up boss/gangsta? Well, that would be quite appropriate here! Good form!

I’m glad you two are happy with your delusions ...

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9 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

These discussions and their eventual ending reminds me of the flight of the oozlum bird.

1) Again, don’t feed the troll…

2) Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.

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On 5/23/2021 at 8:09 PM, Middler said:

Proof by exception, one of your usual MO’s. Take a look at rankings…

 

On 5/23/2021 at 8:11 PM, LICC said:

Proof by performance. Your assertion has zero proof. 

Before the PGA Phil's FedEx ranking was 168, now it’s 45. Hardly proof that old guys are competitive with young guys after 1 win in a season with no other result even close. Pile on some more wins and then you may have a case - proof by exception.

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Okay I'll try again to bring it back around... did anyone else see that there was a section of holes going into the final round that play over 1000!! over par? I really liked the setup this week for the PGA, it wasn't US Open tough and I agreed with what the NLU boys said where it was finding its identity and being able to differentiate itself a little bit from the other Majors. It was also great to see 3 days of different winds to challenge the players. I for one would have been terrified of 17 as I am a lefty and draw the ball so that water is just terrifying, but was nice to see a good challenging course that offered a unique skill set to get around the course with a decent score. 

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Middler said:

 

Before the PGA Phil's FedEx ranking was 168, now it’s 45. Hardly proof that old guys are competitive with young guys after 1 win in a season with no other result even close. Pile on some more wins and then you may have a case - proof by exception.

In 2018, at 48 years old, he was ranked in the OWGR in the top 20 to top 25 all year. At 50 he beats all the current young guys in a major. Proof by performance. If he was playing currently at age 30-35 against all these same guys today, he would win just as much now as he did then. You can try to be a denier all you want by saying this is some freak exception, but you are just grasping at straws. Phil and Tiger well beyond their primes are still winning the biggest tournaments against today's fields. 

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4 minutes ago, LICC said:

In 2018, at 48 years old, he was ranked in the OWGR in the top 20 to top 25 all year. At 50 he beats all the current young guys in a major. Proof by performance. If he was playing currently at age 30-35 against all these same guys today, he would win just as much now as he did then. You can try to be a denier all you want by saying this is some freak exception, but you are just grasping at straws. Phil and Tiger well beyond their primes are still winning the biggest tournaments against today's fields. 

There's no real way to prove your statement, especially since it took Phil so long to win a Major and he is currently in a lot better physical shape than he was back then. 

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35 minutes ago, LICC said:

In 2018, at 48 years old, he was ranked in the OWGR in the top 20 to top 25 all year. At 50 he beats all the current young guys in a major. Proof by performance. If he was playing currently at age 30-35 against all these same guys today, he would win just as much now as he did then. You can try to be a denier all you want by saying this is some freak exception, but you are just grasping at straws. Phil and Tiger well beyond their primes are still winning the biggest tournaments against today's fields. 

And you can continue to use selective facts and conveniently flip flop on your (Phil) support - but using Tiger, arguably the GOAT in his prime years, and Phil, one of the greatest ever to make the case that older players in general are still competitive now based on their very sporadic wins is nonsense. If Phil sustains this and goes on a tear it may show that with a foundation of well above average skills (in his prime), it can be done later in a career with an above and beyond effort - as he’s noted himself. As impressive as Phil’s PGA win is, it follows a season where he wasn’t in the top 20 in any tournament and lots of missed cuts until Kiawah. That is a “freak exception” by definition. Phil and definitely Tiger were exceptions to begin with before age caught up with them.

What may be most interesting about Phil’s win, that no one here seems to be discussing, is him stating that the recent difference for him has been his improved focus - staying committed to each shot, not his pure ballstriking ability. That may be the central point for late in a career…

25D895F0-4030-42A7-8FA3-909EA2A0EE2B.jpeg

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15 minutes ago, Middler said:

And you can continue to use selective facts and conveniently flip flop on your (Phil) support - but using Tiger, arguably the GOAT in his prime years, and Phil, one of the greatest ever to make the case that older players in general are still competitive now based on their very sporadic wins is nonsense. If Phil sustains this and goes on a tear it may show that with well proven skills in his prime, it can be done later in a career with an above and beyond effort - as he’s noted himself. As impressive as Phil’s PGA win is, it follows a season where he wasn’t in the top 20 in any tournament and lots of missed cuts until Kiawah. That is a “freak exception” by definition. Phil and definitely Tiger we’re exceptions to begin with before age caught up with them.

25D895F0-4030-42A7-8FA3-909EA2A0EE2B.jpeg

You are missing the point. I'm not saying older players can be as good as they were or win as much as they did when they were younger. I am saying that the talent level on the Tour now is at the same level, and not superior, to the talent level back when Phil and Tiger were younger and in their prime. Young Tiger and Young Phil would win just as much now as they did then. The fact that at their ages and, with Tiger, his diminished back, they can still beat today's players in majors is compelling proof of the assertion.

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1 hour ago, fixyurdivot said:

Yes, that's how they normally control the crowds when they allow them to backfill the fairway and follow the last group in. I think the event staff just did not execute the plan well... presuming they in fact planned for that?

Thats what I was curious about, was it just poor execution and explanation to personnel or was it truly lack of planning? Coming from a planning background I can understand poor execution but lack of planning isnt excusable.

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25 minutes ago, LICC said:

You are missing the point. I'm not saying older players can be as good as they were or win as much as they did when they were younger. I am saying that the talent level on the Tour now is at the same level, and not superior, to the talent level back when Phil and Tiger were younger and in their prime. Young Tiger and Young Phil would win just as much now as they did then. The fact that at their ages and, with Tiger, his diminished back, they can still beat today's players in majors is compelling proof of the assertion.

Missing the point? Using sporadic wins by two of the greatest players of all time from the last generation late in their careers doesn’t “prove” your case. We get your “assertion” but the “proof” is still missing.

The argument that prior greats are comparable to today’s, in any sport, is timeless and unprovable - but it doesn’t stop people from having the debate with no possible conclusion. So knock yourself out…

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2 hours ago, Apolloshowl said:

I don't blame those at all for getting excited in the moment and following along with what everyone else is doing. Easy to get caught up in it all and just simply be excited. 
I did just see the PGA came out and apologized to the players and others for it getting out of hand and so on. In the moment again I don't blame anyone and it is not as though they were really doing anything wrong, more just surprised to see it as I can't recall ever seeing the green being blocked off from a player being able to access it before! haha
It was great to see crowds back and the excitement for everyone, hopefully for future events people are a bit more restrained and we can still see those iconic moments with massive crowds following along with the epic journeys some of these players are going through. 

I think as a fan of golf most people would have enough respect for the players to hold back from swarming the greens until both players and caddies have arrived and then swarm the green.

I did really enjoy the event and the enthusiasm of the crowd but do we as fans have to be policed?

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49 minutes ago, daviddvm said:

I think as a fan of golf most people would have enough respect for the players to hold back from swarming the greens until both players and caddies have arrived and then swarm the green.

I did really enjoy the event and the enthusiasm of the crowd but do we as fans have to be policed?

Obviously “we” do even if some in the crowd would respect the players and hold back. We may have seen a change in crowd performance? When Tiger won at Eastlake a few years ago the crowd swarmed on #72 but they seemed to let Tiger, Rory and caddies stay in front of them up to the green, and I doubt security could have ensured that themselves. Not so at Kiawah.

Sadly the drunken “baba-bogey” mashed potatoes crowd was back in full force, they don’t seem to have much respect for themselves much less the players.

Koepka was very critical of the swarming on #18, and rightly so. I hope the PGA puts pressure on all event to control crowds. Players should not have to push through crowds at anytime or anywhere during a tournament IMO.

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2 hours ago, Chip Strokes said:

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Yes!!!! That’s it!!! Very nice!

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I love that Bryson is living rent free in Brooks’s head!!!!

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3 minutes ago, Middler said:

The “baba-bogey” mashed potatoes crowd was back in full drunken force, they don’t seem to have much respect for themselves much less the players.

Exactly my thoughts. Expecting a bunch of drunk frat monkeys to have some self-restraint is asking too much.

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5 hours ago, Apolloshowl said:

Okay I'll try again to bring it back around... did anyone else see that there was a section of holes going into the final round that play over 1000!! over par? I really liked the setup this week for the PGA, it wasn't US Open tough and I agreed with what the NLU boys said where it was finding its identity and being able to differentiate itself a little bit from the other Majors. It was also great to see 3 days of different winds to challenge the players. I for one would have been terrified of 17 as I am a lefty and draw the ball so that water is just terrifying, but was nice to see a good challenging course that offered a unique skill set to get around the course with a decent score. 

There was a good many holes on that course that would be a challenge, even on a bluebird day with no wind 😬.  I do think the longer than average yardage showed itself in the scoring.  Hopefully the tour can find some additional tracks that increase the challenge.  A few under par/round just seems better to me.

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