Is "feel" overrated in golf clubs?

[Matt Saternus]

I've been kicking this question around for a while now and thought I'd go ahead and ask the MGS community for their input. The question is, as you saw in the title, "Is 'feel' overrated in golf clubs (or balls, etc)"?

 

Here's what I mean and what got me thinking about this: I wrote some golf ball reviews a little while back, and part of what I tested was feel. Got to the point where I could tell a Penta from a ProV1, or my carbon steel putters from stainless, as easily as I could tell white from black. The thing that I wondered about was whether or not that difference would be noticeable on the course, or, more importantly, if I would care. When I'm in my living room putting, I absolutely notice and care about feel, but I can't say that it's much on my mind when I play: on the course I'm just thinking about making putts or hitting shots. Do you think about feel on the course? When you pure an approach shot, would the experience be made worse by a club that didn't feel great or do you not care?

 

That's not to say that we shouldn't play equipment that feels good, but does feel ever keep you from playing the best equipment? Would you play equipment that worked really well but felt bad? What about equipment that worked just ok, but felt great? What's the tipping point for you?

 

I'm sure I have some more questions or thoughts that I'll add, but that should get things started.

 

Now, I know there are a lot of questions and thoughts in that mess, but I had to spill it all out to get it out of my head. Let me know what you think. There are absolutely no right or wrong answers here, so please jump in and share your thoughts. To all those lurkers, and I know there are a bunch, this would be a great place to jump in, I'd love to hear your opinions.

[Tha Living Legend]

I don't think feel is overrated. Lots of people buy clubs based on feel.

 

Feel is very subjective.

 

Despite being subjective, the majority of consumers are misinformed about why certain clubs feel the way they do.

[Xamilo]

Can you "feel" the difference when striking a golf ball? For sure!!!

 

Does it make a difference in trajectory, distance, overall performance: I don't think so.

 

I prefer to have better looking clubs, and those who I think have a better "feel", but I agree its a little bit overrated...

[Maverickping]

Feel is very important to me. It is right in line with the visuals, add up the two and I believe it gives me the required amount of confidence when I go to play golf.

Once I decide on if I like something which would include "feel", that is the last time I will think about it (more or less) and never when playing golf.

 

One of my brothers is LH as well. He has a set of Ping Zing irons. I tried them out against my Ping ISI Becu and they felt horrible to me. Same with his Ping Zing putter - horrible to me. I ended up giving him one of my Mills putters and he said the putter "feels" fantastic compared to the Zing. Just tried my late grandfathers Bob Goalby putter - horrible and if my grandfather was still alive he would marvel at what we have the opportunity to use today.

 

My very first putter I ever bought and still have was a Ping Anser2 Manganese Bronze Isoforce with an aluminum pixel insert because I liked the feel.

[Matt Saternus]

Great! Keep 'em coming. I'm really most interested in your personal experiences/ideas/opinions more than what "most people" do.

 

Another question that I don't know if I spelled out clearly enough: would you play a bad feeling club if it performed markedly better than one that felt good? How much feel or performance would you sacrifice for the other?

 

Let's also throw looks/visuals into the mix, since that's been mentioned a couple times: how important are they? More than feel or less? Again, would you play a great performing club that looked rotten? How much looks will you give up for great performance?

[Shambles]

I doubt it's possible to get great performance from a club that felt lousy. You can force good performance from poorly assembled clubs or clubs that don't fit properly but great performance is much more than distance alone though that is bound to also suffer a bit if the club feels wrong.

 

Looks can be overcome in exchange for great performance. Paper bags are cheap.

 

 

Shambles

[daves81]

I dont think feel is overrated.There is nothing better than a well struck golf shot.I wonder how much the golf ball is involved in feel because I can definately tell the difference between a Prov1 and a distance ball.

[Kanoito]

I don't think it's overrated. I can feel the difference between distance and premium balls, putters with and without insert, MB and shovels (not going to say forged and cast). If you like the feeling, you feel confident, if you are confident, you play better (or bigger the chance).

 

Golf is hard enough, so every bit of help is very welcome.

 

Unfortunately, there is no way to quantify "feel", like mentioned above, it's subjective. So the only thing that matters is how each one of you feels

[Matt Saternus]

I doubt it's possible to get great performance from a club that felt lousy. You can force good performance from poorly assembled clubs or clubs that don't fit properly but great performance is much more than distance alone though that is bound to also suffer a bit if the club feels wrong.

 

Looks can be overcome in exchange for great performance. Paper bags are cheap.

 

 

Shambles

 

This got a literal LOL from me. Very nice.

 

Back on topic, I think you raise an interesting point about feel (not sure if you intended to, but it made me think of it): when I say "feel", what do you think of? When I started this topic, I was referring only to the feel at impact, but I suppose that we could also include feel to mean the static weight, swingweight, the feel of the shaft...this can of worms gets bigger every minute.

[Maverickping]

Another question that I don't know if I spelled out clearly enough: would you play a bad feeling club if it performed markedly better than one that felt good? How much feel or performance would you sacrifice for the other?

 

Let's also throw looks/visuals into the mix, since that's been mentioned a couple times: how important are they? More than feel or less? Again, would you play a great performing club that looked rotten? How much looks will you give up for great performance?

 

I wouldn't play it as it could end of being a mental thing if that makes sense. I equate any success I might have on the feel which would also include the visuals as does it look/feel (beautiful) which for me could be the same thing (look/feel like I'm in another semantics class).

 

Feel and performance are one and the same for me. Same with the visuals which are equally important. When I decide to buy a putter I usually stick with the people I know... based on their ability to bring out the very best in the putter and then I do my part deciding on the finish, weight etc. Lucky for all of us as we have options nowadays, it is really not that hard to get what is right for you and your game. This is a hard enough sport as it is, why limit yourself and your own creative feel, visuals on things that can be controlled.

 

Good examples are my new Miura irons and wedges, they look and always have appeared beautiful to me and they feel wonderful. One and the same thing.

 

I have the arrows now I have to get the Indian back on track and playing.

[BIG STU]

Well I will throw my 2 cents in the mix. I am definently old school I play by feel and instinct. It has a lot to do with when and how you were taught the game and how sensitive your touch is. I was taught in the era of persimmon woods blade irons and balata balls. Personally I play older blade irons preferrebly MacGregor. that is just me. As far as balls I prefer Titelist Pro V1x even though I also like the Callaway Tour ball or TM TPs. for me nothing peforms on the short game like a Titleist. As far as putters I dont like insert putters I absolutely cannot get any feel with them. As far as pleasing to the eye I can look at a club and can tell you if I can hit it or not. Believe me I have tried modern cavity back clubs and I cant feel what the ball is doing. Another problem for me with modern irons is that they have too much bounce for me because i am a trap cut player and I tend to get off timing because of the bounce. People think i am crazy because I buy older sets of blade irons sometimes reshaft and re grip them and use them. I will give you a example, a few years ago at a charity auction I bought a set of 1966 MacGregor black face Tourney customs for $10 (even though i gave the charity $20) I put a set of Rifle shafts in them and regripped them. I use them from time to time and have less money in them than others have in newer sticks. For me these things are what works for me. I would be the first of many who will honestly say that what works for me might not work for you or anyone else. This is just my insight

[skihippy]

First I would like to say that the feel of the club and sound of the club when you strike it perfectly is what I am looking for on every shot.

 

OK the best way I can explain why feel is so important to me.

 

My first set of irons was a off the shelf set I got from Dicks. Those things even when struck well felt like an aluminum bat.

 

Second Set - I thought I could get a set of clubs off the internet and they could play just like OEM clubs. (Not going to mention the name of the company) Still didn't feel good, real stiff and hard.

 

My set now - TM burner 09, I know why these clubs where the best selling clubs for that year. I just can't wait to hit a shot flush to hear and feel it.

 

I am just throwing it out there. The feel of the club from Putter to Driver inspires confidence, and what happens when you have confidence in your clubs?

 

LOWER SCORES and MORE FUN

[Shambles]

This got a literal LOL from me. Very nice.

 

Back on topic, I think you raise an interesting point about feel (not sure if you intended to, but it made me think of it): when I say "feel", what do you think of? When I started this topic, I was referring only to the feel at impact, but I suppose that we could also include feel to mean the static weight, swingweight, the feel of the shaft...this can of worms gets bigger every minute.

 

Impact only tells me if I'm hitting sweet or not.

 

The feel of a club has to be a totality of all it's characteristics and the quality of that feel is how well the combination suits you. Provided you actually know how to swing and are physically fit for the job, thinking should be almost the instant of doing. In the beginning you have the gross and very visible movements of a baby's early walking. Given time and effort you have the subtleties of an athlete.

 

Feel is only bought with the currency of personal experience and effort. If you are an outright beginner, all clubs are right and all clubs are wrong. A good fitter can get you started in the right direction but you still need to learn to swing if you're ever going to be able to feel the subtle differences between clubs and be able to choose the clubs that truly feel right to you with validity. In simple words, if you don't do the work intelligently, you don't get the prize.

 

Feel can be a very complicated problem to define but it's also as simple as what your hands and body tell you. As the Living Legend pointed out, feel is subjective.

 

 

Shambles

[Tha Living Legend]

Design affects feel more than any component.

 

You can have a club forged out of 1015 carbon steel but if it's a lousy design, it won't feel great.

 

Conversely, if you have a 17-4 stainless cast club that is very well designed, it will feel warm apple pie.

[Super Tuna]

I think the RIP shaft is a pretty good example of this. It's a great performing shaft at a relatively good price point but tends to lack in the feel department. There is no end to the amount of posts out there asking what people think of the RIP which results in great performance, crap feel. Seems like a lot of people end up booting it due to feel since they can find similair performing shafts out there which ancedotally says to me that feel is pretty important to people rather then over rated.

[finalist]

I think feel is misinterpreted sometimes.

Putters:

For example various metals that putters are made from. Change the face thickness and the putter will probably "feel" softer if you interpret a lower sounding impact noise as soft. Copper is the softest metal used, but if the face is thin and it has a sound slot it can be designed to feel harsher than heated stainless steel.

 

Shafts:

A driver shaft may feel boardy, but plays weak, or it can play stiff, but play smooth. It all depends on design and where the flex is or isn't. I feel a softer butt section equals smooth feeling while the tip section stiffness dictates trajectory.

 

I think feel is not over rated and it can be adapted too and changed over time. It's completely personal on what you want and what you want out of it. Do you want feedback or consistency (soft or harsh).

 

 

A pured shot is the most enjoyable thing in golf.

 

"Design affects feel more than any component " TLL

[Matt Saternus]

Great feedback, please keep it coming!

 

I will limit this post to one new specific question (and please feel free to answer it, ignore it, make up your own, etc):

 

Would you play a club that felt bad if it performed markedly better than the clubs that felt good? How much better would it need to be?

 

Damn, that was two question...

[Matt Saternus]

I hit a club yesterday that prompted to me to go ahead and offer my opinion on my own question:

 

Unless it could be shown to give me dramatically better results, I could not play a shaft that felt too loose to me. Please understand that I am not one of these knuckle draggers who thinks he swings way too hard for any stock shaft, but I hit a club the other day that just felt like it was going to go all over the yard. I think I would need a LOT of reinforcement to convince my brain, "This will work" and to have confidence in it. In this instance, feel is not overrated.

[Tyk]

I guess I am an example of someone who is playing clubs that don't have a great feel but perform well. I've been playing Cleveland Red irons for over 3 seasons now even though they don't have a great feel to them. I've been trying to kick them out of my bag for forever, I've tested out several irons of all different types many of which feel better, none of which feel worse, but I don't play any of them better than I do the Clevelands, so why switch? My current clubs perform well, I can hit all the shots that I'm capable of hitting with them, I don't think they are holding me back. Its likely that if I gave any of these other clubs more time I would adjust to them and play them just as well as my current set and enjoy a better feeling iron, but I kind of doubt that they are actually going to make me a better golfer. So even though I've been looking for an excuse to boot these out of my bag, I just haven't found it.

[finalist]

Would you play a club that felt bad if it performed markedly better than the clubs that felt good? How much better would it need to be?

 

 

I would. Feel changes over time. One day we like something and the next we don't. Results are basically numbers that don't change. Results/numbers either are or they are not. Perceptions of feel can be changed slowly over time or instantly through a mere suggestion. Control feels best.

[Super Tuna]

Would you play a club that felt bad if it performed markedly better than the clubs that felt good? How much better would it need to be?

 

No and I don't care how much better it is.

 

Yes I'm a gear head who wants to squeeze out performance and yes I'm more a mechanical player but I still cannot abide clubs that don't "feel" the way I want them to. For me, this is much like the Driver vs 3 wood debate when teeing off. Sure, it's feels awesome to splat out a drive 285 (quite long for me) but I'd rather hit it out there 230 and have more then twice the chance to be in the fairway. Hitting a nice feeling club, to me, is more like the later. I like how the club feels which means I know what it's doing. If I know what it's doing I have more control and having more control means I will hit this fairway or green or whatever. A bad feeling club means I don't feel like I have control over it nor will I enjoy hitting it. As soon as I've taken it out of the bag, BAM there's a negative thought about the shot I'm going to take which certainly isn't going to help me prepare for the result I want.

 

If we take it one step further where I have control of the less feeling club I still don't want to use it. Just because I can control the shot, doesn't mean I want to use said club for my next shot. I think T touches on this well in his Miura writeups. Will he shoot a drastically better score because he finally has the feel of shot he wants? Doubtful. Does it make the game more enjoyable over all because he enjoys taking each shot more regardless of how many of them there are? Probably.

 

Summary: I'd rather have a better feeling club over a "better" club if only to increase my enjoyment of the round even taking out my percieved control level.

I'm looking at you 910D3. I've used at least 3 driver heads this year that perform a bit better but they don't come close in terms of sound or feel. I think I'll be making my way back to this head shortly.

[Matt Saternus]

I would. Feel changes over time. One day we like something and the next we don't. Results are basically numbers that don't change. Results/numbers either are or they are not. Perceptions of feel can be changed slowly over time or instantly through a mere suggestion. Control feels best.

 

This is very interesting, I can't say that I've ever heard anyone say this before. Do you have any personal experiences you can share of something that changed its feel over time? Your idea has definitely piqued my interest, I'm going to go into the shop tomorrow and hit a bunch of stuff I didn't like the first time and see if anything is different. May repeat this for a few days and report back.

[Tyk]

I think that's definitely true. A part of what feels good is just what we're used to, so if you're used to a game improvement iron and you hit a blade, you aren't going to be used to the feel it gives on off center shots and won't like it. If you were forced to play blades for a season you'd become accustomed to it and might never switch back! It could happen the other way too. A blade player might really come to like the performance of a GI club if they were forced to play it for a while.

 

Remember, we're all pretty much in a agreement that "feel" is a subjective thing, and while there may be broad areas of agreement about what feels good, it isn't universal and no one would argue if someone came along and said they hated the feel of a club we liked, right?

[finalist]

This is very interesting, I can't say that I've ever heard anyone say this before. Do you have any personal experiences you can share of something that changed its feel over time? Your idea has definitely piqued my interest, I'm going to go into the shop tomorrow and hit a bunch of stuff I didn't like the first time and see if anything is different. May repeat this for a few days and report back.

 

 

Sure. Shafts. I have enjoyed several shafts that perform well. I thought they were smooth with some kick, but as time went on I changed that review to mushy noodle with a lack of control. My swing didn't change, but perhaps my desire did. As I tested more of a variety of shafts my opinion changed. I gained a bigger test group knowledge.

 

Another feel change is a sound slot on carbon putters. Sometimes they feel soft and other days they don't feel as soft as a non-slotted carbon putter. There are people who think higher pitched means softer while others think lower pitched means softer.

 

Another good example is the whole German steel stuff. I could hand some people a solid one piece putter and just say try this stainless. Once I say it's German they think it's softer. That's instant opinion change thanks to Cameron. (another reason I like Byron - He's completely honest about that stuff)

 

When you try stuff again in the store to test this idea give your brain a good marketing tour of the product. Really sell it to yourself. Convince yourself it does feel good because of very specific X, Y, or Z technology or materials or performance.

 

For me I look for three things. Real performance, visual aesthetics, and feel. Feel is read after the ball is long gone, so for me feel is all about feedback and how to improve the next shot.

[Tha Living Legend]

I've thought about the question or questions that Matt asked the other day. I had to rack my brain for a little while to think if I've ever played a club that felt like crap but performed like seal team 6.

 

It finally came to me. A few years ago, a buddy of mine at Adams sent me a 9081 Pro Black hybrid right before they came out. He wanted me to replace my 2 iron and give my opinion.

 

The club felt like crap. If I barely missed the sweetzone, it reminded me of hitting a metal fence post with my tee ball bat when I was a kid.

 

The club flat out performed though. I never missed a fairway off the tee. Second shots into par fives were easier. It never cost me a stroke. No matter how good of a shot, the feel was terrible though.

 

Ultimately, I hit it too far. The gap between the hybrid and my 3 iron was too great. I started having awkward yardages that I never had before.

 

I sent the hybrid back and my buddy sent me a higher lofted pro black to help with the gapping. That hybrid went too high so I sent it back as well. Eventually, I settled on my trusty 2 iron.

 

The point of my story is that yes I would play a club that performed well but felt like crap because I have done it before.

[Matt Saternus]

I think that's definitely true. A part of what feels good is just what we're used to, so if you're used to a game improvement iron and you hit a blade, you aren't going to be used to the feel it gives on off center shots and won't like it. If you were forced to play blades for a season you'd become accustomed to it and might never switch back! It could happen the other way too. A blade player might really come to like the performance of a GI club if they were forced to play it for a while.

 

Remember, we're all pretty much in a agreement that "feel" is a subjective thing, and while there may be broad areas of agreement about what feels good, it isn't universal and no one would argue if someone came along and said they hated the feel of a club we liked, right?

 

Good points all around: we do tend to like what we're used to, and we can probably get used to anything over time.

 

 

Sure. Shafts. I have enjoyed several shafts that perform well. I thought they were smooth with some kick, but as time went on I changed that review to mushy noodle with a lack of control. My swing didn't change, but perhaps my desire did. As I tested more of a variety of shafts my opinion changed. I gained a bigger test group knowledge.

 

Another feel change is a sound slot on carbon putters. Sometimes they feel soft and other days they don't feel as soft as a non-slotted carbon putter. There are people who think higher pitched means softer while others think lower pitched means softer.

 

Another good example is the whole German steel stuff. I could hand some people a solid one piece putter and just say try this stainless. Once I say it's German they think it's softer. That's instant opinion change thanks to Cameron. (another reason I like Byron - He's completely honest about that stuff)

 

When you try stuff again in the store to test this idea give your brain a good marketing tour of the product. Really sell it to yourself. Convince yourself it does feel good because of very specific X, Y, or Z technology or materials or performance.

 

For me I look for three things. Real performance, visual aesthetics, and feel. Feel is read after the ball is long gone, so for me feel is all about feedback and how to improve the next shot.

 

Thanks for the examples. Some of your points definitely hit home, particularly the shafts. For me, balls are another one: one day a ball might feel great, another day it feels like mush or a rock.

[btbgolf4]

Yes and no. A golf ball should be soft. Nobody likes feeling a rock shooting off the face on every shot no matter how pure it is. However, every club (except putters) when you hit it pure, is going to feel the same way. When I play, do I care about the way my club feels? Not at all. I care about looks, weight, and the grip. Anything else is just hindering your playing ability. Feel is just another killer of confidence more or less.

[Shambles]

Equipment design has much to do with feel.

 

The thickness of the leading edge, for example, affects the ease with which you can slip it beneath the ball for some shots. The roundness ground into that same leading edge can either make the club bounce into the ball or slide along the ground underneath the ball to let the face and the grooves do their work with whatever force has not been expended into the ground. The location of the bounce and the amount of bounce can also have their own effect regarding the utility of the club when used for non standard shots, as does the stiffness and kick of the shaft. The weight distribution of the head, be it offset or not, affects the ease with which it can square at the moment of impact and how well it suits your swing, your grip on the club and your ability to release and let the club do it's work. Shaft length affects the velocity with which you can strike the ball, your timing for the release, and the comfort you will have taking a favored or needed stance preparatory to striking the ball. Shaft length also affects the dynamic loft of the club at impact in combination with hand position at impact relative to the ball. Overall weight can affect the confidence with which you can approach a needed muscle shot.

 

These and many more things often invisible to the player affect player satisfaction and confidence in his equipment. I'll add material as a " feel " consideration. I prefer stainless to forged because regardless of the amount of use and years a set of irons has served me, they maintain their youthful ( new ) looks much better than than forged, with the exception of an old raw low bounce 56* wedge that was made by Fourteen. Forged along with Stainless can outlive their amateur owners but the plating on forged wears out and it isn't all that fun to use a newly purchased set of forged in less than pristine fairways because the soft metal gouges so much more easily than 17-4 stainless.

 

Thankfully, club design does not change your game as much as the ads claim and, having learned to swing, you can make changes in small increments to maintain a familiar feel while continuing your search for improvement.

 

 

Shambles

[RoverRick]

I think "feel" is the most important thing. But not just how the club feels during the swing but how it makes you feel looking at it. My point is I have a Titleist 905R 10.5* currently with a F1 Motore shaft. I also have a Callaway FT9 9.5* I Mix. The Callaway out performs the Titleist in every catagory, mainly because of the loft. It is typically only 5 yards but the Titleist if I am not careful will balloon into the wind. But at the end of the round, I have noticed that when I play the Titleist, I end up 2 or 3 strokes less than the Callaway. Why? I love the looks of the Titleist and "feel" good when I see it in the bag. I actually have a new (to me) driver coming and should be here tomorrow. It is the Titleist 909D3 that I have listed below. I have had the Callaway for almost 3 years and try as it may, it can not keep the 905R out of the bag for long.

As far as other clubs in my bag, these Cally Protos "feel" so good that I play them when I really should play something more forgiving. I have some much more forgiving irons at home. I played them last week and actually scored worse than I did with the Protos. I did not hit anymore greens with the "forgiving clubs". I did however hit some shots that did not feel as bad as the Protos, but I did not hit any that felt as good as the good shots.

I look down at the heads of these clubs; the pear-shaped driver, and small headed irons with the thin blade and no offset, and even the 9 year old three wood or the 7 year old hybrid and "feel" like I am going to make a good swing. That makes all the difference at the end of the round.

Putting is all "feel". If you "feel" you are a good putter, then you are one. And more putts fall in.

[Matt Saternus]

I think "feel" is the most important thing. But not just how the club feels during the swing but how it makes you feel looking at it. My point is I have a Titleist 905R 10.5* currently with a F1 Motore shaft. I also have a Callaway FT9 9.5* I Mix. The Callaway out performs the Titleist in every catagory, mainly because of the loft. It is typically only 5 yards but the Titleist if I am not careful will balloon into the wind. But at the end of the round, I have noticed that when I play the Titleist, I end up 2 or 3 strokes less than the Callaway. Why? I love the looks of the Titleist and "feel" good when I see it in the bag. I actually have a new (to me) driver coming and should be here tomorrow. It is the Titleist 909D3 that I have listed below. I have had the Callaway for almost 3 years and try as it may, it can not keep the 905R out of the bag for long.

As far as other clubs in my bag, these Cally Protos "feel" so good that I play them when I really should play something more forgiving. I have some much more forgiving irons at home. I played them last week and actually scored worse than I did with the Protos. I did not hit anymore greens with the "forgiving clubs". I did however hit some shots that did not feel as bad as the Protos, but I did not hit any that felt as good as the good shots.

I look down at the heads of these clubs; the pear-shaped driver, and small headed irons with the thin blade and no offset, and even the 9 year old three wood or the 7 year old hybrid and "feel" like I am going to make a good swing. That makes all the difference at the end of the round.

Putting is all "feel". If you "feel" you are a good putter, then you are one. And more putts fall in.

 

Ooooh, taking "feel" in a new direction, I love it! I agree that feel, as in emotion, is a HUGE thing. I've mentioned on here before that I tried a giant putter grip once and I couldn't get it off fast enough because it made me feel like a bad putter. My many beautiful putters, however, make me feel like I love putting, so I putt well.

 

Great contribution RoverRick, glad to have you on MGS!