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Handicap Appropriate Equipment-Ego vs Reality


MadMex

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What is funny is I never met a player who said “I just hit the ball too straight”. I have had the same experience as above. Bought muscle backs when I was a 5. Added 5 strokes to the hcp. Went back to Ap1s with a good cavity back.  I want the ball to go about the same distance with a slight mishit not lose 20 yards. 
pros have to work the ball much more than the standard amateur because of course set up  


An interesting idea is finding a single “blade” iron to practice with and work on hitting the center of the club face.

take the ego out of it. Let the results speak. I would play with a pink plaid driver shaped bagel if I hit it 300 straight all the time. 

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14 hours ago, MadMex said:

I agree and disagree with you, here is my points:

Yes, a 36 handicapper would need stiff and even x-stiff shafts based on his swing.

Like I posted , my buddy played Balatas, which were high spin balls, a 36 handicapper using Pro-V1's, would aggravate their slice/hook

Game Improvement irons, can help down to a 10-12 handicap, this is the range where I thik some forged short irons could be introduced along with a high spin ball.

I thought you were exaggerating when you said your Brother in law played Balata.  Does anyone make Balata anymore?  Why in the world would anyone play them if they did unless they are playing in a classic club league - that's a different matter from what you've brought up here.

 

Modern balls are smart, they spin, less off the driver and more off short irons - the 36 handicapper would almost certainly benefit from playing a tour type ball - Pro VI type.  It will spin less off the driver all the way down to his mid irons and give him more spin where he needs it.  The real question for him though will be value.  As a 36 he is probably incurring lots of penalty strokes along with the lost balls that come with them.  That being the case he may wish to forego the $40 a dozen price of a tour level ball.

It is certainly true that there is not an absolute rule in regards to handicap/age/equipment type but it's pretty clear that there are plenty of general rules that apply.  At some point father time kicks and and we are in need of changing our equipment to help adapt.  Generally that means a shift from steel to graphite, heavier to lighter, larger grips as helps with arthritis, and on and on it goes - Some handle the transition well, others refuse - you can only lead a horse to water, right?

 

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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There are two “feels” in golf.

One is how the club feels during the swing, and I’ll address this first.  

I have gone through 18 months trying different shafts in my JPX919 Hot Metal Pros. I have never hit an iron more poorly in my life (overall) than these clubs. But they were by far the most forgiving and hottest hitting irons I’d played up to that point. I played MP series irons for years and expected to see distance advantages and forgiveness. However, these were on lighter shafts. I tried several different ones XP95, Nippon NS750 Wrap Tech, some 115 g shafts, SteelFiber i95 and Project X Graphite some in stiff and some in regular flex and some in both.  I have simply never hit them well. I recently changed to Ping i500 DG S300 120 g and have drastically improved my ball striking. Weight trumps Flex, apparently. While they may  “feel” heavier and slower, I strike the center of the club face and hit them further, higher, and straighter. They are simply better weights of shaft for me even if I should probably play a regular flex. Based on the occasional good shot with the 919’s the problem was my delivery not the heads. This was totally brought on by having shafts that did not fit my swing. I seriously doubt the Ping i500 is that much more forgiving than the Mizuno JPX 919 Hot Metal Pro.

The other feel.

The other feel is how you feel about your club and the shot you are about to make. When I walk around to the bag and see blades I “feel” like a “playa”, and I just know I am going to hit a good shot. At least on the short iron. But I can also “feel” like I need more help. Standing on the 18th fairway and having to hit a mid to long iron to the island green, I just know I’m not going to hit a good shot with a blade. The i500’s are be best of both worlds but probably not on a different shaft. They make we feel like a “playa” looking at them, and they make me feel like I have plenty of forgiveness if I need it, and often do need the help. Just as the Ping fairway woods vs any hybrid make me feel like I can swing hard and not fear going hard left.

So Ego vs Reality.

I had decided after playing in Florida last month, that I needed higher hitting clubs. First off, I played the best round since before my knee injury and subsequent surgery and recovery. I had just bought a Ping G425Max driver and hit it high and straight. My misses with my other clubs tended to be straight but low. I was going to have a bag full of hybrids if that’s what it took. I scheduled my fitting the intention of going with the Ping G425Max 4-7 Hybrids and 3 and 5 Fairway woods if that’s what it took. Ultimately, I ended up with Fairway Metals rather than hybrids. I also saved some money and bought some used Ping G410 3 and 5 woods. I like the turbulators on these, it makes them look bigger and more forgiving. They also look more closed than I like, but I can get over that when I see them fly high and straight and long with a hop and stop at the end.

:ping-small:G430LST 10.5° on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Driver 

:ping-small:G430MAX 3w  on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Fairway 

:ping-small:G425 3H on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Hybrid 

:taylormade-small:P790 Black 4-A 
on :kbs: TGI 80S
 

:mizuno-small: ES21 54-8° & 58-12° on :kbs: Hi Rev

:L.A.B.:DF2.1 on :accra: White

:titelist-small: ProV1  

:918457628_PrecisionPro: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All Iron grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated Mid

Driver, 3w, 3H are JumboMax JMX UltraLite XS 

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I’m a 17 handicap, I used to be single digit but injuries, some lack of mobility and not being able to play for about 16 months after injury and surgery has caused my game to suffer.

I have played blades and MB irons and I can still hit them well most of the time...but there are 3-5 shots a round that are real CLUNKERS...no distance, bad direction....most if not all of those shots would not be anywhere near as bad with GI or SGI irons and 5 errant iron shots can cause 10 or more strokes to your score if you add a few penalty strokes.

Does a perfectly struck 7 iron with a blade go further and more accurate than the 7 iron hit well with the GI irons....yes...but a slight miss hit on the GI irons doesn’t yield anywhere near as bad a result as the same shot with blades and the bad misses with the GI irons are MUCH less punishing than the same s*** with the blades.

the other issue is shaft flex...I’m not nearly as long as I was 3 years ago because of the injuries..but I still play stiff shafts because my transition with regular flex shafts seem to cause dispersion issues....at least that’s how the fitter explained it.

 

 

 

:callaway-small: XR Driver Matrix Ozik 8m3 Black Tie Shaft

:cobra-small: King F7 3W UST Mamiya Chrome Elements 7F4 Shaft

:cobra-small: King F7 5W UST Mamiya Chrome Elements 7F4 Shaft

:cobra-small: King F7 4 Hybrid Graphite Designs Tour AD-HY 95 Shaft

PXG 0211 DC 5-PW Mitsubishi MMT 80 Shafts

:cleveland-small: RTX ZIPCORE 50*,54*,58* UST Mamiya Recoil 95 Shafts

:odyssey-small: Metal X Milled #7 with SuperStroke 2.0 grip

:Snell: MTB

 

 



Twitter: @timldotson
Instagram: timldotson
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On 6/2/2021 at 8:25 AM, revkev said:

I thought you were exaggerating when you said your Brother in law played Balata.  Does anyone make Balata anymore?  Why in the world would anyone play them if they did unless they are playing in a classic club league - that's a different matter from what you've brought up here.

 

Modern balls are smart, they spin, less off the driver and more off short irons - the 36 handicapper would almost certainly benefit from playing a tour type ball - Pro VI type.  It will spin less off the driver all the way down to his mid irons and give him more spin where he needs it.  The real question for him though will be value.  As a 36 he is probably incurring lots of penalty strokes along with the lost balls that come with them.  That being the case he may wish to forego the $40 a dozen price of a tour level ball.

It is certainly true that there is not an absolute rule in regards to handicap/age/equipment type but it's pretty clear that there are plenty of general rules that apply.  At some point father time kicks and and we are in need of changing our equipment to help adapt.  Generally that means a shift from steel to graphite, heavier to lighter, larger grips as helps with arthritis, and on and on it goes - Some handle the transition well, others refuse - you can only lead a horse to water, right?

 

No, I said my USAF buddy did in the 80’s, my sister-in-law’s husband plays PRO-V1’s, he struggles to break 100 because of his slice which is aggravated by the Pro-V1, he shot low 90’s about 5 times with no problems using a low spin 2 piece ball, but went back to the Pro-V1 because he lost distance and “feel”, 100’s came right back

 DRIVER: default_cobra-small.jpg.125f3712aad21ad9f7ca2c672e34a299.jpg  Cobra F-8 set at 10.5,  Aldila NV 2KXV Blue 60 (R) 44 1/2 "

3 & 5 WOOD: default_callaway-small.jpg.a58e7c6760b71a9eb95d385ecc5d2200.jpg Callaway XR-16, Fujikura Speeder Evolution 565 Red (R) 

IRONS 5-SW: default_ping-small.jpg.b7606a25498d65282474c96f18d2debd.jpg PING G-700, 2 upright, std loft  Alta CB (R) + 1/2"

HYBRID 3-4:  default_ping-small.jpg.b7606a25498d65282474c96f18d2debd.jpg PING G-410, 1 upright,  Alta CB 70 Red (R) + 1/2"

PUTTER: Byron Experimental GSS

 

 

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11 minutes ago, MadMex said:

No, I said my USAF buddy did in the 80’s, my sister-in-law’s husband plays PRO-V1’s, he struggles to break 100 because of his slice which is aggravated by the Pro-V1, he shot low 90’s about 5 times with no problems using a low spin 2 piece ball, but went back to the Pro-V1 because he lost distance and “feel”, 100’s came right back

I'm sorry to say but in any test that I have ever seen the difference in spin rate between a two piece ball and a tour model ball is in the 200 RPM range - hardly enough to be much of a difference maker - Of course it's always possible that an individual user might do something with his swing when staring down at a brand new Pro VI or Pro V1x - that I can't account for. 🙂

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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6 minutes ago, revkev said:

I'm sorry to say but in any test that I have ever seen the difference in spin rate between a two piece ball and a tour model ball is in the 200 RPM range - hardly enough to be much of a difference maker - Of course it's always possible that an individual user might do something with his swing when staring down at a brand new Pro VI or Pro V1x - that I can't account for. 🙂

 

... Rev there is much more difference that that just comparing tour balls and I imagine a 2 piece with a surlyn cover would have an even greater difference. In TGW's 2021 tour golf ball test:

Driver spin highest/lowest:

ProV1 ... 2482
Z Star XV ... 1978

7 iron highest/lowest:

Mizuno RB Tour X ... 5565
TP5x ... 4429

Wedges highest/lowest:

TP5 ... 7356
Z Star XV ... 6382


https://www.tgw.com/golf-guide/best-tour-golf-balls/

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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On 6/1/2021 at 8:49 PM, Tom the Golf Nut said:

I play the Sub 70 699 Pro's. Do you have a specific question?

What is the quality of this club vis a vis Titleist, Taylormade, etc.?  How hard was it to get the right fit?  

"There is not such thing as a bad day on the golf course!"

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6 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... Rev there is much more difference that that just comparing tour balls and I imagine a 2 piece with a surlyn cover would have an even greater difference. In TGW's 2021 tour golf ball test:

Driver spin highest/lowest:

ProV1 ... 2482
Z Star XV ... 1978

7 iron highest/lowest:

Mizuno RB Tour X ... 5565
TP5x ... 4429

Wedges highest/lowest:

TP5 ... 7356
Z Star XV ... 6382


https://www.tgw.com/golf-guide/best-tour-golf-balls/

Not denying the difference with irons and wedges - it’s driver - the most recent site that I looked at most recently was PXGs and on average the spin rate difference off driver between a two piece and tour ball was 200 rpms. 
 

Again though that’s with a robot - can an individual player create a larger discrepancy?  Absolutely!  Could it get to where it matters? I think it’s possible.

 

But generally speaking it’s not going to with driver so that’s the point I’m trying to make. Generally speaking there will not be a significant enough difference between a Pro VI’s spin rate off driver and That of a two piece ball to matter. 

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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On 6/3/2021 at 1:36 PM, revkev said:

I'm sorry to say but in any test that I have ever seen the difference in spin rate between a two piece ball and a tour model ball is in the 200 RPM range - hardly enough to be much of a difference maker - Of course it's always possible that an individual user might do something with his swing when staring down at a brand new Pro VI or Pro V1x - that I can't account for. 🙂

If you saw this man's practice swing vs at ball swing, you would walk away scratching your head.

Practice swing: very smooth backswing, nice shoulder turn, hint of stopping at top and very smooth transition down and through...

Actual swing: Almost upright all arm backswing, starts aggressive downswing before his shoulders finish backswing , stops swing about waist high.

Oh, and his ball position on his stand is always a mystery were it will be. 

but in a positive note, his putting, one look, line up, in the hole, you would want him on a scramble just for his putting

 DRIVER: default_cobra-small.jpg.125f3712aad21ad9f7ca2c672e34a299.jpg  Cobra F-8 set at 10.5,  Aldila NV 2KXV Blue 60 (R) 44 1/2 "

3 & 5 WOOD: default_callaway-small.jpg.a58e7c6760b71a9eb95d385ecc5d2200.jpg Callaway XR-16, Fujikura Speeder Evolution 565 Red (R) 

IRONS 5-SW: default_ping-small.jpg.b7606a25498d65282474c96f18d2debd.jpg PING G-700, 2 upright, std loft  Alta CB (R) + 1/2"

HYBRID 3-4:  default_ping-small.jpg.b7606a25498d65282474c96f18d2debd.jpg PING G-410, 1 upright,  Alta CB 70 Red (R) + 1/2"

PUTTER: Byron Experimental GSS

 

 

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On 6/1/2021 at 4:44 PM, Padreruf said:

Hey ChuckZ -- I am on the other side of Charleston -- West Ashley...am 70 and play to a 10.  I am recovering from back surgery -- spinal fusion due to a tumor on my L4.  Anyway, I'll be back playing in August -- Stono Ferry -- and would love to talk with you regarding swing and club changes coming back from this surgery.  I have already gone to game improvement irons (Taylormade M4 -- 6-GW -- with hybrids for 3-5. (All R shafts.)  I have also installed more flexible shafts -- between R and S in my woods.  My swing speed was 87 with driver...not sure what it will be now.  It will be shorter and smoother, that is for sure.  The more flexible shafts were so I could swing smooth and minimize the back pain I thought was coming from the discs.  

Anyway, what was your experience in coming back from this surgery?  Have you changed your shafts?  BTW, do you get fitted by David Ayres?  

Have not changed any of my clubs since I had surgery in February 2020.  Strange as it may seem, at 75 I still swing stiff D, F, H, and regular irons and wedges.  Have been fitted that way and it works for me.  Am currently playing to a 15 at the new muni, which is something unless you have not played it.  Kind of a hybrid Charleston Country Club and Yeamans Hall.  They shaved L5 which was pinching the nerve and affecting my ability to walk with my left leg.  Yes I use David Ayres.  I first met David when he did repair work at Edwin Watts over thirty years ago.  Helped him move into his new site here in Mount Pleasant.  Purchase all my Titleist equipment thru him.  I would go to him and see what he says.  My swing is around 93 and ball speed is 132 and with the new driver we were going 230 in his shop (TSi3).  My ball spin which is critical was 2000, which is awesome.  I really like my T300 Titleist irons.  I hit my 7 iron 150+ depending on my swing day.  I still have those four bad holes, which causes that 15 handicap.  I have a 10.0 driver, 917 15* fairway,  816 17* and 818 21* hybrid, T300 5-53* irons and a 58.12* Vokey wedge.  All clubs are Titleist.   All my shafts in my D, F, H are Fujikura Tour Speeder Pro or Tour Motore Speeder.  I love the feel and the performance.  I have also worked in the past with the Titleist Specialist/Fitter in this area.  Between David and Billy I get the best possible fittings possible.    

 

Driver - TSi3 10.75* - Fujikura Speeder 661 TR

Fairway - TSi2 14.25* - Fujikura Motore Speeder VC 6.1 

Fairway - TSR1 17.0* - Fujikura Vista Pro 65S

Hybrid - TSR1 20.0* - Fujikura Atmos Red Tour 75  

Hybrid - TSR1 23.0* - Fujikura Atmos Red Tour 75

Irons - T350 (2023) - 6-48W - True Temper AMT Red 95g-107g

Wedges - Vokey SM9 - 52.08F, 56.10S - True Temper AMT Red 94 

**  GolfPride MCC +4 Midsize Grips  (all woods/irons/wedges)

Putter - 2023 Scotty Cameron Super Select Squareback 2 35" 

**  Superstroke 1.0 Pistol Grip  

Golf Ball - TITLEIST - Prov1s (2023)                                                         

Golf Bags - TITLEIST  - Cart 14 (black), Mid Size Tour (black/white)

Golf Glove - FootJoy (StaSof), Shoes, Apparel and Outerwear        

Rangefinder - Bushnell Pro XE

 

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I don't think it is so much about skill to play blades, but rather certain swing types might be more conducive to them.   I have a shallow swing.  On average, my angle of attack with irons is negative 1.2 degrees or so.  I have found that I have an easier time with turf interactions with thinner soles found with blades.  This is especially true for the rough.  With thicker sole clubs which tend to be GI clubs, I struggle.

As an example, I have a blueprint 2-iron and a pxg 0211 2-iron that I would consider a driving iron.   I can't hit the pxg one except from the tee and certainly not from the rough and fairway.  On the other hand I can hit the blueprint extremely easily from any location.

The reason is the thin sole.  As a shallow swinger,  I need more relative assistance with respect to digging.  A blade digs easier.  A Gi with a thick sole digs less because of the sole width.  

So I might be inclined to say that for a lot who "cant hit blades" , blades just might not be conducive to your swing type (I.e., level or significantly descending).  

So I am not certain it is a skill thing.

I settled on the pxg gem 3 0311t, which is not a true blade obviously, bit is pretty darn bladey.

Shoot 'em straight

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Been playing public golf course, often taking a random start in the afternoon paired with some other player, I can often see bad equipment choice along those players. I recently restarted golf after 10 years or so and before the season I read pretty much every website available, checked tons of video out there, got fitted with my new equipment. The biggest reason for bad equipment choice is money from what I can see. They buy used golf club, older, in rebate drivers, have no clue about their distance with each club, often have 2 club that does the same distance. Those players are recreative golfers and they won't last more than 2 seasons because their game cannot improve without driving range time, bad equipment will prevent them from surviving some clubs/shot, playing tons of different ball a round will make them miss even more shot because each ball doesn't behave the same. They will leave golf soon enough because they wanted to save "money".

I used to lose from 6 to 12 ball a round 10 years ago depending on course and wind. I bough a SFT ping g410 driver for 500$ and now I lose 2-3 ball a round. After a year with my new driver, the driver will pay for himself just by not losing ball.

I often see kids(young adults) with their grandpa blades and driver because they were free. They can't drive for sure with those thing and when they get to the blades, they don't have any consistent swing and strike location to be able to play those. Sometimes when I see some of them slice the ball like hell, I take out 2 pinnacle Gold from my bag, lend them my driver and let them hit with it on a hole. They are like, wow I almost didn't slice the ball, then I tell them to go get fit...

Then the second kind of players I see are the "need to look good players"

They have sometimes:

-flashy club/bags

-expensive brand or rare brand in Canada

-Value of the cloth they are wearing is more than the one of all their clubs.

-have 18 clubs in their bags.

few exemple of people I got paired with:

a guy was playing PXG club gen 3 irons I think they were, nice looking club, he could resell the club full price cause he cant strike the ball near the center. But hey people stop when they see his club in the bag... 120+ stroke player for sure.

I asian guy with Miura blades, he yelled for like 40 times during his round.

One guy with a yellow cobra cart bag that you can see miles away, with at least 19-20 clubs in the bags, 2 drivers, wood 3-5, driving iron, 3 to PW, 4-5 wedges and only 1 putter! he was actually a decent player, he had one club for every single situation in the game for sure. I straight driver, 1 slice driver, he actually did well on all of his drive, even the 2 dog leg on the course. Good chap, counting all his stroke, playing where the ball landed but still didn't get the memo about the number of club.

I do not care about the number of club you play or if you move your ball because you don't want to destroy your 200$ iron from the car path or near a tree, that you take 12 mulligans but don't brag about your score after the round.

Those players could have benefit from a session for a fitting, PXG guy could have used the GI irons from PXG instead, the miura blade guy could probably have used SGI and the cobra guy could simply have removed 4-5 club without really changing much in his game. BUt EGO get in the way for sure

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I get too caught up in thinking that a 9 iron blade with a pro v1 standard length clubs stuck real close is the ideal feeling shot. Its in my mind how a shot should feel, spin, etc. If i can do that than my swing is how it should be . Which is clearly not necessarily the case. 

Driver: :callaway-small: Rogue Sub Zero 10.5* Oban Kiyoshi Gold tipped 1" 44.5" NDMC Mid

4w: :callaway-small: Epic flash Oban Kiyoshi Gold tipped 2" 42.5" NDMC Mid

3-PW: :mizuno-small:  MP-18, 3i FLYhi MMC, 4-6i MMC, 7-PW MB, KBS C-taper Lite X-stiff NDMC Mid

Wedges: :titelist-small:  SM7 49*F, 54*D, 59*M KBS C-taper Lite X-stiff NDMC Mid

Putter:  Lajosi Sensor Breakthrough Golf Tour Stability Shaft 34" SuperStroke GTR 1.0

Ball: :Snell:MTB-X

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On 6/10/2021 at 11:32 AM, lasorcier said:

I don't think it is so much about skill to play blades, but rather certain swing types might be more conducive to them.   I have a shallow swing.  On average, my angle of attack with irons is negative 1.2 degrees or so.  I have found that I have an easier time with turf interactions with thinner soles found with blades.  This is especially true for the rough.  With thicker sole clubs which tend to be GI clubs, I struggle.

So I might be inclined to say that for a lot who "cant hit blades" , blades just might not be conducive to your swing type (I.e., level or significantly descending).  

So I am not certain it is a skill thing.

 

... I think you might be missing the obvious. Most golfers do not hit the center of their irons consistently. Heel/toe as well as high/low makes a huge difference when hitting a forgiving iron compared to a MB. I have seen so many sets of MB's in used bins all scratched up almost off the grooves toward the toe and then others with marks all over the face. 

... The reason many scratch or better players, along with all those on every tour playing for a living, is most have OFF days when contact is inconsistent. Sure, on their ON days playing a MB is just as easy as playing a players CB or even a GI iron. Hogan once said he hits 1 shot per round in the dead center and with the swing he wants, so what chance does an AM that plays once or twice a week with little practice have of hitting it dead center with their best swing? 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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There are so many factors that go into choosing equipment, but if I were to provide a starting point for anyone I'd look at ball striking, club speed, and personal preferences as it relates to enjoyment of the game. 

The fact of the matter is there are just some shaft and clubhead designs that require speed and not everyone in the 50+ age bracket is going to have that. Heck, not everyone is going to have that speed at age 20. There's also a similar matter of strength because a player might be able to produce good speed with a 90 gram shaft, but struggle significantly with a 120 gram shaft (the inverse can be true as well). 

Of course, ball striking matters as well because if you can't make decent contact then you really wouldn't be doing yourself any favors by playing blades.

Lastly, there's the matter of how you personally define the game of golf for yourself and reap enjoyment from it. Is score the only aspect of golf that matters to you? Or, do you relish the challenge of producing well struck shots and/or acquiring the ability to alter shape and trajectory? I'll note there is plenty of room to find a balance between these two extremes as well. 

As for myself, I play a relatively unforgiving model of cavity back that people have mistaken for blades (at least once or twice). If money wasn't a factor, I'd seek out something with a bit more forgiveness, but I equally love and hate the challenge of learning how to create a swing that produces excellent ball contact; not that I couldn't achieve the same thing with a more forgiving iron, but feedback is crucial and you just get more of that from a 1-pc forging. It's my cross to bear lol. On my good days, I strike it well enough to not be an issue at all, but I'm currently struggling quite a bit and it's left me not even wanting to play 18 until I get things back under control. However, I'll add that my current struggles are not limited to the irons and extend to almost every club in my bag. So, I'll grind on my swing now and get back to the course in good time with a reinvigorated game and a heightened level of enjoyment for having persevered through the present situation. 

To each their own.

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

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As someone who has played a variety of different types of irons I'm curious as to what others feel.  I constantly hear about feedback.  I have to say that I have very little trouble knowing where I hit the ball on the face of any iron that I'm playing with.  Whether it was my old Ram Tour Grind blades, my favorite Ping Eye 2's or anything since including my G30's I could tell if I hit it flush, misshit it on the toe, low on the blade, high on the face, dare I say it, in the heal.  What more do you need in regards to feedback?

 

I can also draw any club you put in my hands and if I'm swinging well enough fade it or hit it higher or lower - some are clearly easier to do that with and I'm certainly not about to start hitting cuts to right hand pins at this point but know how to hit a cut and can do it if I need to get out of trouble from behind a tree or on the range even with the G30's that have so much offset to them.

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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4 minutes ago, revkev said:

As someone who has played a variety of different types of irons I'm curious as to what others feel.  I constantly hear about feedback.  I have to say that I have very little trouble knowing where I hit the ball on the face of any iron that I'm playing with.  Whether it was my old Ram Tour Grind blades, my favorite Ping Eye 2's or anything since including my G30's I could tell if I hit it flush, misshit it on the toe, low on the blade, high on the face, dare I say it, in the heal.  What more do you need in regards to feedback?

Not all clubs are like that at least for me. As I go through the various clubs and club types they all feel different especially if you start to say feel and sound are the same thing.   With some clubs it is difficult to identify where you make impact; especially if you aren’t that far off from center.  Perhaps it is player dependent as well.  I hear people say they feel the club head in the swing or the shaft loading/unloading which is something I personally have never felt.  But there are clubs that I can get a better feel for off center.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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25 minutes ago, revkev said:

As someone who has played a variety of different types of irons I'm curious as to what others feel.  I constantly hear about feedback.  I have to say that I have very little trouble knowing where I hit the ball on the face of any iron that I'm playing with.  Whether it was my old Ram Tour Grind blades, my favorite Ping Eye 2's or anything since including my G30's I could tell if I hit it flush, misshit it on the toe, low on the blade, high on the face, dare I say it, in the heal.  What more do you need in regards to feedback?

 

I can also draw any club you put in my hands and if I'm swinging well enough fade it or hit it higher or lower - some are clearly easier to do that with and I'm certainly not about to start hitting cuts to right hand pins at this point but know how to hit a cut and can do it if I need to get out of trouble from behind a tree or on the range even with the G30's that have so much offset to them.

From a ball flight perspective I’ve tested or played several sets of players distance or what may be considered GI and the forgiveness in them has balls been generally on the same flight visually for a mishit compared to sweet spot contact. If not paying close attention to sound or feeling in the hands one wouldn’t know especially for those who don’t hit sweet spot often. The distance lose in some is minimal. 
 

As for feedback into the hands that really varies on the shaft IMO compared to the head. I notice that with dg shafts the feedback is a lot harsher than $ taper and modus shafts. Even more so with graphite. 

When I played the i210s and tested the i500 the i500 had a noticeable difference in sound for off center hits. The i210 was pretty close for off center and center contact but not a good compressed shot.

 

 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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43 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Not all clubs are like that at least for me. As I go through the various clubs and club types they all feel different especially if you start to say feel and sound are the same thing.   With some clubs it is difficult to identify where you make impact; especially if you aren’t that far off from center.  Perhaps it is player dependent as well.  I hear people say they feel the club head in the swing or the shaft loading/unloading which is something I personally have never felt.  But there are clubs that I can get a better feel for off center.  

Okay, good points by both you and RickyBobby so I will clarify a bit.  I should have added, given time - so given time with a set of irons I can certainly tell where my misses are.  If I were doing a MGS test and had to hit irons in succession or the first few times that does become a different matter.  I was thinking instead of a set of irons that I was gaming, not trying.

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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There are no hard and fast rules or relationships between handicaps and what clubs people should use. Either the club fits or it doesn’t.
 

I’ve played most categories of clubs and the only thing that consistently improved my scores over time is playing/experience independent of what equipment I’m using. 

Edited by crw

Ogio Woode 8 Hybrid Stand Bag
PXG 0811 X Gen4 @ 6* - Fujikura Motore X F3 7X
PXG 0211 @ 13.5* - Fujikura Motore X F1 8X
PXG 0311 XP Gen3 3i-PW - PX LZ 6.5
PXG 0311 Forged 54/60 - PX LZ 6.5
Scotty Cameron Special Select Newport 2

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7 hours ago, revkev said:

As someone who has played a variety of different types of irons I'm curious as to what others feel.  I constantly hear about feedback.  I have to say that I have very little trouble knowing where I hit the ball on the face of any iron that I'm playing with.  Whether it was my old Ram Tour Grind blades, my favorite Ping Eye 2's or anything since including my G30's I could tell if I hit it flush, misshit it on the toe, low on the blade, high on the face, dare I say it, in the heal.  What more do you need in regards to feedback?

 

I can also draw any club you put in my hands and if I'm swinging well enough fade it or hit it higher or lower - some are clearly easier to do that with and I'm certainly not about to start hitting cuts to right hand pins at this point but know how to hit a cut and can do it if I need to get out of trouble from behind a tree or on the range even with the G30's that have so much offset to them.

I can certainly feel poorly struck shots with a more forgiving club, but it's the degree to which I feel it or potentially even the exactness of it that I struggle with. And again, it depends on personal preferences and experience as to how much feedback you want from a club because you can increase or decrease feedback (to some degree) simply by changing grips.

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

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I believe ego plays a bigger factor than we like to admit or give credit too when it comes to club selection.  Further, the tendency to play too stiff and too long a shaft (drivers) is even more problematic.  My True Spec fitter told me I'd be amazed at how many folks come in wanting to be "fit too" the club their favorite pros play vs. being "fit for" the best club for their swing.  Brand preference and looks are real factors that can and do drive suboptimal choices. 

I think ego played a part in my recent decision for the ZX5's over the G425's. The fitting numbers were a little better with the Srixon's (both with the MMT 80's).  While both are listed as GI irons, the Srixon's are definitely a smaller profile head and that appeals to me a bit. The risk is whether the fitting and Srixon demo day experiences translates through the bag and in play.  Both fitters recommended the ZX5's - we'll see how it works out.

 

:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

:odyssey-small: AI-One Milled Seven T CH (Currently Under Product Test)

 

 

 

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