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Long thumb/Short thumb GRIP


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I've read a few books and when they discuss grip, almost always show photos of what would be called a "short thumb" pinched in against the 1st index knuckle to make a tight V. I've used this style grip over the past 2 seasons, but recently read detailed info on the long thumb which CAN promote more wrist cock and therefore delay the release in the downswing. 

For those of you that use a "long thumb" or any grip where the lead thumb isn't pinched into the index finger's first knuckle or "V" on the hand, are you able to have the entire length of your thumb in contact with the grip? I can only touch my thumb pad on the shaft when gripping the club at the base of the fingers, leaving a big gap between the base of my thumb and the shaft (shown below). The middle 2 fingers on the bottom hand are then beside my "long thumb" with the bottom hand lifeline wrapped on top of it to squish the long thumb down a bit.  With a short thumb, the middle and ring finger are well below my left thumb on the grip and the part of my lifeline at the base of the palm is between the 2 knuckles on the lower thumb. 

The long thumb feels odd with an interlock grip, but it seems to greatly reduce any slice with driver. When using a "short thumb" my lead hand grip is rotated stronger to get the heel pad on top of the club, so that is not reducing the left to right ball flight. I don't yet feel comfortable using it with irons on course, but it yielded 2/3 fairways today with driver (1 miss in left rough) - even with poor contact on 2 shots and an average distance 260 yards.

Anytime I've had a lesson, the instructor has looked at my hands on the club and just said "looks good". But I think this needs some more attention in my next lesson. 

Short thumb:
short1.jpg.a0aadc5db3e21c5babe0d2c3726be7c4.jpgshort2.jpg.fedee08e8b975a98e19c6ac021077086.jpg

Long thumb:
652535649_long1.jpg.307f000b18d1cd1f93eddece5e55d6c2.jpglong2.jpg.bf7827b227df0c5bec9945beb2660ca1.jpg

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I’ve used both long and short thumb grips and current grip is a short thumb. Both grips for me have the same setup in the hand with the thumb pad resting on top of the club and sitting in the base of the fingers. But that’s probably because I use the same method for gripping the club by holding it at a 45* angle in front of me and then placing my left hand on the club. The only difference is how I place my thumb on the grip.

Just be careful with chasing more wrist cock. This can lead to a cupped wrist at the top of the swing and that’s going to be hard to recover from.

Ive seen some of the top instructors say a slight cup isn’t that bad but it’s the excessive cup that can be a problem. I don’t recall many instructors getting into small vs long thumb, but more so focus on how the hands sit on the club and where the Vs should point 

Monte, GG and AMG are some that I recall getting into the wrist cock subject and they all have similar thoughts about it being a lot less than amateurs think they need.

All three basically teach a small upward set of the wrist while at the same time a slight bend of the right wrist. AMG is the only one of the 3 that got into more specifics saying both hands from address would set at a 45* angle

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Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

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37 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I’ve used both long and short thumb grips and current grip is a short thumb. Both grips for me have the same setup in the hand with the thumb pad resting on top of the club and sitting in the base of the fingers. But that’s probably because I use the same method for gripping the club by holding it at a 45* angle in front of me and then placing my left hand on the club. The only difference is how I place my thumb on the grip.

Just be careful with chasing more wrist cock. This can lead to a cupped wrist at the top of the swing and that’s going to be hard to recover from.

Ive seen some of the top instructors say a slight cup isn’t that bad but it’s the excessive cup that can be a problem. I don’t recall many instructors getting into small vs long thumb, but more so focus on how the hands sit on the club and where the Vs should point 

Monte, GG and AMG are some that I recall getting into the wrist cock subject and they all have similar thoughts about it being a lot less than amateurs think they need.

All three basically teach a small upward set of the wrist while at the same time a slight bend of the right wrist. AMG is the only one of the 3 that got into more specifics saying both hands from address would set at a 45* angle

Mark cross field had an interesting video a few weeks ago about lag/wrist cock and also said players try to have too much wrist cock.  

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I use the "long thumb" grip, and my scores have been coming down...however, I did purposely play 2 rounds last year with a "short thumb" grip and the results were...FORE LEFT!!!  I think because of too much release.  I've seen Clay Ballard and Eric Cogorno discuss the "long thumb" grip, but seemed to shy away from recommending it.  I even chatted with Eric about it, but he seemed to think I was crazy...but I shared this video (below) with him, and he never responded after that.

There are other videos on Taylormades YouTube page that show all of the pros that are at the same event as this video, but I thought I'd share this one, because it's very easy to see at least 3 tour pros grips...all with "long thumb", but I would say Collin's is more pronounced.  I was originally trying to find out if this was just something they (pros) do for pitch/chip shots, or for every club...I'm pretty sure it's every club.  I also remember hearing Michael Breed talking about Tony Finau having a "long thumb" grip.

 

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My instructor had me try a long thumb, but it was a very short (5 ish swings) experiment. I have arthritis pretty bad in my right thumb (surgery is likely sometime down the road), and the long thumb hurt to the point that I could tell right away it wouldn't last. I hope your hands are pain free, but if you have any issues it might be tough to play a lot or even finish a round. Good Luck!

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Interesting video on the subject 

 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

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31 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Interesting video on the subject 

 

I have a naturally middle length thumb. It's an interesting topic however, and I like this video.

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3 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Interesting video on the subject 

 

Thanks for this, short thumb definitely presses the palm pad off the shaft for me and I do have to pay special attention with a long thumb that the butt of the club can't move around, so what he says makes sense. I don't recall seeing much information about that pressure point in the past either. Going to experiment with it as this is specific to each individual and the dimensions of their hands (and golf grips) and discuss in my next lesson. 

All my grips are midsize, but my driver has more taper which might be contributing to more comfort with different hand placement versus irons hybrids. 

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4 minutes ago, BMart519 said:

Thanks for this, short thumb definitely presses the palm pad off the shaft for me and I do have to pay special attention with a long thumb that the butt of the club can't move around, so what he says makes sense. I don't recall seeing much information about that pressure point in the past either. Going to experiment with it as this is specific to each individual and the dimensions of their hands (and golf grips) and discuss in my next lesson. 

All my grips are midsize, but my driver has more taper which might be contributing to more comfort with different hand placement versus irons hybrids. 

It’s been awhile since I watched any of Dan’s videos but remembered he talked about the grip. The long vs short was something a few years back I asked a friend who is a former teaching pro about it an he said it wasn’t something to worry about.

Its definitely not a subject that comes up in the various instructional videos I’ve watched over the last year. The consistent content is about where the Vs should point with most having a window of somewhere between train ear and trail shoulder. Getting the lead thumb in the lifeline of the trail hand. Although from what I recall Mike Adams has a slightly different take.

In some quick googling today it seems like the consensus is long thumb equals less club control, more speed and allows more wrist set/cock. Short thumb more control, less speed and less wrist set.  No definition of what’s more or less speed.

 

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3 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

In some quick googling today it seems like the consensus is long thumb equals less club control, more speed and allows more wrist set/cock. Short thumb more control, less speed and less wrist set.  No definition of what’s more or less speed.

 

That seems to be the most common comparisons I've seen as well. Although it is amusing when 1 random video or article has someone claiming the benefits as reversed. I am not opposed to using a different grip with driver vs irons and wedges for more control. I've messed around with the overlap grip Scot Fawcett talks about for partial wedges, but haven't seen any definitive benefits to it. 

Edited by BMart519

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I use the Long Thumb grip for my left hand and use the interlock grip.  Been using this for most of my 62 golfing ÿears. My hands are very small(Cadet Medium).  My drives are mostly straight unless I open the clubface for a cut shot.

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4 hours ago, BMart519 said:

That seems to be the most common comparisons I've seen as well. Although it is amusing when 1 random video or article has someone claiming the benefits as reversed. I am not opposed to using a different grip with driver vs irons and wedges for more control. I've messed around with the overlap grip Scot Fawcett talks about for partial wedges, but haven't seen any definitive benefits to it. 

I’m not familiar with the Scot Fawcett overlap grip…but for my chip shots and probably 40 yard and in pitch shots, I overlap kind of like I would with the putter grip.

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7 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

In some quick googling today it seems like the consensus is long thumb equals less club control, more speed and allows more wrist set/cock. Short thumb more control, less speed and less wrist set.  No definition of what’s more or less speed.

It’s interesting that you found that a long thumb equals less club control…especially when those tour pros (#1 in the world, even) in that video I shared shows them using a long thumb. I guess I’m surprised because I would think if anyone knows anything about how to have club control it’d be those guys.

Edited by M. Parsons
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8 hours ago, M. Parsons said:

It’s interesting that you found that a long thumb equals less club control…especially when those tour pros (#1 in the world, even) in that video I shared shows them using a long thumb. I guess I’m surprised because I would think if anyone knows anything about how to have club control it’d be those guys.

They were hitting partial wedge shots and none were all out swings. 

The video from Dan Whittaker shows where the lose of control could come from in full swings. If you look at the video from Dan you can see how at the top of a backswing the hand becomes disconnected from the club and what can happen with casting as a person regrips the club.
 

Michael Breed like Dan talk about the speed aspect and the amount of wrist set that each of the two grips allow. 

I haven’t seen a consensus on which one is the right grip. They have talked about the pros and cons. 

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2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

They were hitting partial wedge shots and none were all out swings. 

The video from Dan Whittaker shows where the lose of control could come from in full swings. If you look at the video from Dan you can see how at the top of a backswing the hand becomes disconnected from the club and what can happen with casting as a person regrips the club.
 

Michael Breed like Dan talk about the speed aspect and the amount of wrist set that each of the two grips allow. 

I haven’t seen a consensus on which one is the right grip. They have talked about the pros and cons. 

Cool!  I do remember seeing that in Dan's video now that you mention it, and I was curious if those tour pros were just using that grip for pitch/chip shots, and not on full shots.  Interesting stuff...thanks for the insight.

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43 minutes ago, M. Parsons said:

Cool!  I do remember seeing that in Dan's video now that you mention it, and I was curious if those tour pros were just using that grip for pitch/chip shots, and not on full shots.  Interesting stuff...thanks for the insight.

I’ve seen a few instructors talk about using different grips for pitches and chips. Things like putting style grip, weaker grip in both hands and even butterfly grip. I definitely wouldn’t look at what someone does in a pitch/chip style swing with a full swing in irons or woods.

Theres lots of rabbit holes that one could go down in golf and end up in a worse spot than where they started. The golf swing is about matchups and there’s no hard and fast rules. With just the grip you have Mike Adams and his use of side on, under or over on the right hand based on where the hand is when the elbow folds in his test. GG talks about hands being at 45* and gripping the club at that spot. Iirc Monte talks about setting up with lead hand on the club then being the right hand over and somewhat under.

In the video I saw from Michael Breed he talks a little bit about the long vs short in terms of flexibility in the swing and the long thumb helping the less flexible being able to get the club to travel longer and helping with speed.

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23 hours ago, M. Parsons said:

Cool!  I do remember seeing that in Dan's video now that you mention it, and I was curious if those tour pros were just using that grip for pitch/chip shots, and not on full shots.  Interesting stuff...thanks for the insight.

I went back to watch the grip video from GG on his website. He doesn’t talk about long or short thumb but he goes into neutralizing it asked what he considers a baseline grip. Like with everything he does there are parameters for everything that people can fall into and matchup with in their swing. In the video he does it 2 ways. One let the arms hang and for most people they are at a 45* angle. The other is the same way that AMG uses which is hold the club in the right hand at a 45* angle and then put your left hand on (assuming rh golfer). They both use the same thought process for the right hand being in the fingers.  GG uses a short thumb naturally when his hand goes on. 
 

Here’s a good video from AMG on getting the grip on the club that shows what I mention above. Around the 2:50 Mark you can see the lines on Shauns glove where the club goes. Around the 4:50 mark he shows how to grip with the left hand. Around 6 min mark he talks about putting a thumbprint on the club and pulling the thumb in if you can, but that some people can’t. That’s the one time in all the amg videos I’ve watched where I remember a long or short thumb is mentioned.

 

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2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I went back to watch the grip video from GG on his website. He doesn’t talk about long or short thumb but he goes into neutralizing it asked what he considers a baseline grip. Like with everything he does there are parameters for everything that people can fall into and matchup with in their swing. In the video he does it 2 ways. One let the arms hang and for most people they are at a 45* angle. The other is the same way that AMG uses which is hold the club in the right hand at a 45* angle and then put your left hand on (assuming rh golfer). They both use the same thought process for the right hand being in the fingers.  GG uses a short thumb naturally when his hand goes on. 
 

Here’s a good video from AMG on getting the grip on the club that shows what I mention above. Around the 2:50 Mark you can see the lines on Shauns glove where the club goes. Around the 4:50 mark he shows how to grip with the left hand. Around 6 min mark he talks about putting a thumbprint on the club and pulling the thumb in if you can, but that some people can’t. That’s the one time in all the amg videos I’ve watched where I remember a long or short thumb is mentioned.

 

That might be the best explanation of the proper grip I've ever seen.  Even better players need to check the grip from time to time to make sure everything is where it should be.  The last drill is an easy way to do that!

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10 minutes ago, sixcat said:

That might be the best explanation of the proper grip I've ever seen.  Even better players need to check the grip from time to time to make sure everything is where it should be.  The last drill is an easy way to do that!

Agree. as for good players they posted a video yesterday on Instagram iirc that one of their tour players was just in and asked about how far their head should be from the ball. So even basic setup stuff the pros always need to checkup on 

 

GG does it the same way in his course he just doesn’t dive into the thumbprint and long/short thumb. I like the pull-up and the luggage methods too. I was messing with the rickie/Adam drill but the 45* in front has been my go to for the last year or so.
 

I went back to Monte’s free fundamentals video to see what he talked about for grip. He like several don’t believe in the neutral, strong, weak as most talk about. Kinda like GG with a baseline and some wiggle room. He does a quick hit on long/short and says it’s personal preference. He says there are pros and cons to both but avoids diving into them. He doesn’t want to see a lot of separation between thumb and finger on left hand and also on the right. And like others have the V pointing somewhere left of the ear (right handed golfer). 
 

 

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Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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