Might re-shaft my sticks - help educate this equipment dummy!

[GolfSpy AFG]

I've posted in other threads that I'm suddenly fighting golfers elbow, which has pushed me over the edge and I'm now seriously considering having my 919 Forged irons (4-GW) re-shafted with a Steelfiber or MMT.  Truth be told, I was a bit disappointed that I didn't get to try a broader range of options when I was fitted to these irons (GolfTec) and should have spoken up a bit more, and I've also picked up some speed since the fitting to the point that it's at least worth it to see if a better fit is out there.  Put another way, if I can get a better fit, even from a different steel, I'll likely pull the trigger, with special attention/consideration to the joint-pain saving benefits of a Steelfiber or MMT.

So, the purpose of my post:  despite being a certified golf nut, my golf IQ is pretty darn low when it comes to shafts and equipment and I do NOT want to be an uneducated consumer.  Fortunately, I have access to spies like @RickyBobby_PR, @cnosil, @edingcand plenty other knowledgeable folks!  So, if you have the time and patience to humor me, I've got a number of questions.  Some of these might be laughably ignorant and for that I apologize, just don't type reply "Getoffmylawn, you ignorant sl@t" and we'll be fine...

1)  I need to dig up the paperwork/warranty sheet that came from my irons, but I'm completely ignorant as to what swing weight they actually are...is there a rule of thumb that they probably are?  Reason I'm asking is the next question...

2)  Hypothetically, suppose I fit into a Steelfiber i95 stiff.  (I know they are stiff to flex and you're not a fan @RickyBobby_PR...stay with me... )  The .355 taper tip in those shafts (which I would need for the Mizunos right?) are constant weight, every shaft weighing 95 grams.  My current gamers are Project X 6.0 stiff, which weigh 120 grams.  Given that the new shaft would be 25 grams lighter, is it therefore a given that the clubs will be a lighter swing weight, or if properly built is the fitter/builder challenged to bring them back up to the old swing weight? 

Perhaps that's a wordy and awkward way of saying it so let me try to re-phrase:  is the whole point of a lighter composite like a Steelfiber that the swing weight will be lighter for the same level of flex, thereby generating more clubhead speed, ball speed and spin, and it's on the golfer to acclimate to the new sticks?

3)  Again, I've got Project X 6.0s in the irons, 4-GW (set wedge), then SM8 Vokeys with the "standard" off the rack wedge flex steel.  The 4-GW are a 1/4" short of standard, the Vokeys are again stock off the shelf.  In this example, do I get one more PW-length i95 and have it cut to fit the GW, and then wedge flex i95s for the Vokeys?  And should I take this opportunity to have the Vokeys cut to the same length as the GW?  Or should I be getting a wedge flex i95 for the set GW as well?  My GW is 99.99% of the time a full shot club.

4)  What am I not asking...what's the real issue/trick/concern to pay attention to make sure I've got a good club builder who won't screw this up?

If you've made it this far, thanks.  I warned you, some ignorant questions here, but if anyone is inclined to share their thoughts and wisdom it'd be much appreciated.  I've got a fitting scheduled with GolfUSA here on June 25th...doing my best to research and get smart now.

[RickyBobby_PR]

1) there is no rule of thumb. Shaft, grip, wraps, head will factor into swing weight. You can usually see what the default swingweight is for a stock setup on the manufacturers website. What you had may be off of any above is different or just based on manufacturing tolerances 

when switching from steel to graphite some heads swingweight out the same, some heavy and some light. So you would need to see what this is like when you assemble dry before epoxy, etc and adjust.

2) correct those are constant weight

3) there’s lots of ways to skin the cat. I don’t know what Accra recommends for pw but it could be a 9i cut down. You could reach out to them to confirm. As for the wedge flex that is personal preference. Also keeping same brand is personal preference. I would probably match the length throughout the set

4) find a place to test those shafts in that head to see what you like. I have been messing with the 921 forged. Absolutely hated them with the $ taper which is a shaft I like a lot. The dg120 which is one Ive been meh on worked great and I’ve had mixed results with recoil 95. 

[ACA_619]

59 minutes ago, Getoffmylawn said:

I've posted in other threads that I'm suddenly fighting golfers elbow, which has pushed me over the edge and I'm now seriously considering having my 919 Forged irons (4-GW) re-shafted with a Steelfiber or MMT.  Truth be told, I was a bit disappointed that I didn't get to try a broader range of options when I was fitted to these irons (GolfTec) and should have spoken up a bit more, and I've also picked up some speed since the fitting to the point that it's at least worth it to see if a better fit is out there.  Put another way, if I can get a better fit, even from a different steel, I'll likely pull the trigger, with special attention/consideration to the joint-pain saving benefits of a Steelfiber or MMT.

So, the purpose of my post:  despite being a certified golf nut, my golf IQ is pretty darn low when it comes to shafts and equipment and I do NOT want to be an uneducated consumer.  Fortunately, I have access to spies like @RickyBobby_PR, @cnosil, @edingcand plenty other knowledgeable folks!  So, if you have the time and patience to humor me, I've got a number of questions.  Some of these might be laughably ignorant and for that I apologize, just don't type reply "Getoffmylawn, you ignorant sl@t" and we'll be fine...

1)  I need to dig up the paperwork/warranty sheet that came from my irons, but I'm completely ignorant as to what swing weight they actually are...is there a rule of thumb that they probably are?  Reason I'm asking is the next question...

2)  Hypothetically, suppose I fit into a Steelfiber i95 stiff.  (I know they are stiff to flex and you're not a fan @RickyBobby_PR...stay with me... )  The .355 taper tip in those shafts (which I would need for the Mizunos right?) are constant weight, every shaft weighing 95 grams.  My current gamers are Project X 6.0 stiff, which weigh 120 grams.  Given that the new shaft would be 25 grams lighter, is it therefore a given that the clubs will be a lighter swing weight, or if properly built is the fitter/builder challenged to bring them back up to the old swing weight? 

Perhaps that's a wordy and awkward way of saying it so let me try to re-phrase:  is the whole point of a lighter composite like a Steelfiber that the swing weight will be lighter for the same level of flex, thereby generating more clubhead speed, ball speed and spin, and it's on the golfer to acclimate to the new sticks?

3)  Again, I've got Project X 6.0s in the irons, 4-GW (set wedge), then SM8 Vokeys with the "standard" off the rack wedge flex steel.  The 4-GW are a 1/4" short of standard, the Vokeys are again stock off the shelf.  In this example, do I get one more PW-length i95 and have it cut to fit the GW, and then wedge flex i95s for the Vokeys?  And should I take this opportunity to have the Vokeys cut to the same length as the GW?  Or should I be getting a wedge flex i95 for the set GW as well?  My GW is 99.99% of the time a full shot club.

4)  What am I not asking...what's the real issue/trick/concern to pay attention to make sure I've got a good club builder who won't screw this up?

If you've made it this far, thanks.  I warned you, some ignorant questions here, but if anyone is inclined to share their thoughts and wisdom it'd be much appreciated.  I've got a fitting scheduled with GolfUSA here on June 25th...doing my best to research and get smart now.

 responding to bolded part - overall weight and swing weight are two different things. Swing weight is balance point based so as long you use the correct grips and tip weights, it definitely possible to get your new irons to match the feel of your old irons.

[edingc]

1)  I need to dig up the paperwork/warranty sheet that came from my irons, but I'm completely ignorant as to what swing weight they actually are...is there a rule of thumb that they probably are?  

Looks like the stock specs for the 919 Forged were D2 4-9 and D3 PW-GW. Doesn't mean your set meets those specs, but it's a starting point. Most men's irons are going to be the D0-D3 range off the rack, if I had to make a broad generalization.

2) The .355 taper tip in those shafts (which I would need for the Mizunos right?) are constant weight, every shaft weighing 95 grams.  My current gamers are Project X 6.0 stiff, which weigh 120 grams.  Given that the new shaft would be 25 grams lighter, is it therefore a given that the clubs will be a lighter swing weight, or if properly built is the fitter/builder challenged to bring them back up to the old swing weight? 

All else being equal you might drop swingweight. Or you might gain swingweight (unlikely, but possible). Or you could stay the same. Overall static weight will be lighter but swingweight is just a balance measurement on a fulcrum of given length. 

Perhaps that's a wordy and awkward way of saying it so let me try to re-phrase:  is the whole point of a lighter composite like a Steelfiber that the swing weight will be lighter for the same level of flex, thereby generating more clubhead speed, ball speed and spin, and it's on the golfer to acclimate to the new sticks?

Even if the sets swingweight out the same, the lighter static weight could also change how you deliver the club.

3)  Again, I've got Project X 6.0s in the irons, 4-GW (set wedge), then SM8 Vokeys with the "standard" off the rack wedge flex steel.  The 4-GW are a 1/4" short of standard, the Vokeys are again stock off the shelf.  In this example, do I get one more PW-length i95 and have it cut to fit the GW, and then wedge flex i95s for the Vokeys?  And should I take this opportunity to have the Vokeys cut to the same length as the GW?  Or should I be getting a wedge flex i95 for the set GW as well?  My GW is 99.99% of the time a full shot club.

My personal opinion: If the gap wedge is a full swing club, it gets whatever the full swing shaft is. Wedges can play the full swing shaft or the wedge specific alternative, or something completely different altogether. In my MMTs I put the normal 105TX in the GW and then the 105TX Wedge in the 54 and 58.

4)  What am I not asking...what's the real issue/trick/concern to pay attention to make sure I've got a good club builder who won't screw this up?

Unfortunately, I don't have a good answer here. I would assume there are shops around you that build clubs. Our local shop will do it for $10/club and does quality work. 

[dlow206]

I don't really trust many club builders, so thats why i started doing the work myself. 

[GolfSpy AFG]

22 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

I don't really trust many club builders, so thats why i started doing the work myself. 

I'd normally agree, but if I do end up in a Steelfiber or MMT I'm not about to cut my teeth on club-building with shafts that expensive.

Plus, the builder I found was referred to me by a friend/teaching pro out here, I bought the irons from him originally, and he's very very veteran and military friendly.  Better than picking a builder at random, at least...

[GolfSpy AFG]

41 minutes ago, edingc said:

1)  I need to dig up the paperwork/warranty sheet that came from my irons, but I'm completely ignorant as to what swing weight they actually are...is there a rule of thumb that they probably are?  

Looks like the stock specs for the 919 Forged were D2 4-9 and D3 PW-GW. Doesn't mean your set meets those specs, but it's a starting point. Most men's irons are going to be the D0-D3 range off the rack, if I had to make a broad generalization.

2) The .355 taper tip in those shafts (which I would need for the Mizunos right?) are constant weight, every shaft weighing 95 grams.  My current gamers are Project X 6.0 stiff, which weigh 120 grams.  Given that the new shaft would be 25 grams lighter, is it therefore a given that the clubs will be a lighter swing weight, or if properly built is the fitter/builder challenged to bring them back up to the old swing weight? 

All else being equal you might drop swingweight. Or you might gain swingweight (unlikely, but possible). Or you could stay the same. Overall static weight will be lighter but swingweight is just a balance measurement on a fulcrum of given length. 

Perhaps that's a wordy and awkward way of saying it so let me try to re-phrase:  is the whole point of a lighter composite like a Steelfiber that the swing weight will be lighter for the same level of flex, thereby generating more clubhead speed, ball speed and spin, and it's on the golfer to acclimate to the new sticks?

Even if the sets swingweight out the same, the lighter static weight could also change how you deliver the club.

3)  Again, I've got Project X 6.0s in the irons, 4-GW (set wedge), then SM8 Vokeys with the "standard" off the rack wedge flex steel.  The 4-GW are a 1/4" short of standard, the Vokeys are again stock off the shelf.  In this example, do I get one more PW-length i95 and have it cut to fit the GW, and then wedge flex i95s for the Vokeys?  And should I take this opportunity to have the Vokeys cut to the same length as the GW?  Or should I be getting a wedge flex i95 for the set GW as well?  My GW is 99.99% of the time a full shot club.

My personal opinion: If the gap wedge is a full swing club, it gets whatever the full swing shaft is. Wedges can play the full swing shaft or the wedge specific alternative, or something completely different altogether. In my MMTs I put the normal 105TX in the GW and then the 105TX Wedge in the 54 and 58.

4)  What am I not asking...what's the real issue/trick/concern to pay attention to make sure I've got a good club builder who won't screw this up?

Unfortunately, I don't have a good answer here. I would assume there are shops around you that build clubs. Our local shop will do it for $10/club and does quality work. 

Thank you for taking the time to reply.  Do I remember right from your build thread that you have all the wedges cut to the same length?

[edingc]

1 hour ago, Getoffmylawn said:

Thank you for taking the time to reply.  Do I remember right from your build thread that you have all the wedges cut to the same length?

Almost. I dropped the 58 down a quarter inch just to keep the swingweights in line. Otherwise PW, GW and 54 are all 35.5" (ungripped length).

[cnosil]

5 hours ago, Getoffmylawn said:

 

If you've made it this far, thanks.  I warned you, some ignorant questions here, but if anyone is inclined to share their thoughts and wisdom it'd be much appreciated.  I've got a fitting scheduled with GolfUSA here on June 25th...doing my best to research and get smart now.

I made it that far but you got great advice and there really isn't much I can add. 

[GolfSpy AFG]

So I finally had this fitting...tried Steelfiber’s, Recoils, and a few others, and Steelfiber i95 stiff shafts are on there way!  I picked up 5-8 yards of carry but most importantly tightened the dispersion.

WHY the better dispersion may have been the most odd or even shocking part of the fitting.  My irons were fit at GOLFTEC and ordered direct from Mizuno, and they haven’t yet been regripped so they are in their original “factory” configuration.  Well, turns out my 7 iron’s swing weight was D0.2!!  The fitter yesterday said the heavy grips I have on were the main culprit (midsize Golf Pride MMC), but I find myself wondering who to blame...GOLFTEC for a fitting that resulted in that swing weight, or Mizuno for the build?  Either way, when I started hitting the Steelfiber i95 at a D2.5, needless to say my face control improved significantly.  
Can’t wait to start gaming them!

[heavygolffeels]

Light grips, and up the shaft length 1/2 inch. 

[edingc]

On 6/26/2021 at 2:34 PM, Getoffmylawn said:

So I finally had this fitting...tried Steelfiber’s, Recoils, and a few others, and Steelfiber i95 stiff shafts are on there way!  I picked up 5-8 yards of carry but most importantly tightened the dispersion.

I saw similar increases with the SteelFibers as well when I did my fitting two years ago. I seemed to get along with them quite well. And the dispersion part is not surprising - I feel like the switch to graphite has tightened mine up significantly.

On 6/26/2021 at 2:34 PM, Getoffmylawn said:

WHY the better dispersion may have been the most odd or even shocking part of the fitting.  My irons were fit at GOLFTEC and ordered direct from Mizuno, and they haven’t yet been regripped so they are in their original “factory” configuration.  Well, turns out my 7 iron’s swing weight was D0.2!!  The fitter yesterday said the heavy grips I have on were the main culprit (midsize Golf Pride MMC), but I find myself wondering who to blame...GOLFTEC for a fitting that resulted in that swing weight, or Mizuno for the build?  Either way, when I started hitting the Steelfiber i95 at a D2.5, needless to say my face control improved significantly.  
Can’t wait to start gaming them!

Did you have swingweight checked for all of your clubs? Curious if they were all in the D0 range. I'm not sure if Mizuno weight sorts heads to counteract heavier grips or not, but yes, it was almost certainly the midsize grip that caused the lighter swingweight. Also possible the 7 iron was just on the lighter side of tolerance (I'm assuming +/- 3 grams) which could have shifted it a bit further on the lighter side.

Regardless, that's awesome to hear that the heavier swingweight helped your face control. I tend to find D4-D5 is right around my sweet spot for full-swing irons.

[GolfSpy AFG]

1 hour ago, edingc said:

Did you have swingweight checked for all of your clubs?

No, I didn't ask.  I wish I had, but I'm supremely confident in the club builder to be thorough throughout the set when he does the shaft swap.

[WaffleHouseTour]

 I feel like I'm reading a version of my own story...  I haven't had confidence in the shafts in my irons since I got them. I bought them used, one length, and never really thought the person before me had put in the right shafts, or cut them correctly.  Anyway... I finally bit the bullet and went to a CC in West DesMoines, about three hours from my home, but where I do business.   Really  enjoyed the fitting process.  Before we even made the appointment I went and visited to get their feeling on one length irons - some fitters don't want to deal with, don't believe in, etc - so I didn't want to be wasting my time.  But he knew his stuff so I gave it a go.  I let him know I wasn't looking to replace my irons (at least not the heads) but wanted to see if there was a better shaft option for me, and what I was looking to achieve.  It was a good 90 minutes there, and he kept walking me through the numbers.  What I thought I wanted (had I not done a fitting but just bought on my own) were not the right shafts for me - so that made the fitting alone worth it.  He just kept trying different shafts, and I made an effort to not pay attention to the brand or name but just swing away.  Midway through the process it looked like some MMTs would be the right call, and they held up as we tried more. 

I've never had graphite shafts in an iron before - so I'm anxious to give these a go.  Will be lowering the overall weight of the shaft - hopefully leading to a faster swing/ball speed; but adding a bit of swing weight or head feel to get some better launch conditions.  (fingers crossed)

The only part of the experience I wasn't wild about - at the last minute as he was building the order, asking if I wanted to have the shafts pured.  I went along with it - then came home and read about it on MGS.  I don't know that I needed - but I'm already committed to going all in here so... not going to regret it.  The whole exercise was to instill some mental confidence in my sticks.

Now I wait.  Not sure how long I'll be waiting.  Even if the shafts arrived today, I could get back to WDM for a couple of weeks to have him pull and replace.  So I have to be patient - but those black shafts, with the Cobra black forged tec heads will look sharp.