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Pace of Play Question


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6 hours ago, Kanoito said:

I won't comment on this specific event, since I've never played CPO and don't know the course.

BUT I'm also a firm believer that 4.5 rounds are just too long, hell... even 4 hours seem too much to me. Not sure how the other 3 golfers played, but if your buddy shot +6 he can't possibly be wasting that much time looking for balls. Was it 100% golf or was there also adult beverages included?

My home course is kind of a resort, with hotel and tons of guests from Denmark and Sweden and oh I so wish they also enforced skipping a hole if you fall behind. Perhaps I should suggest this to the management? 😄

 

I mean, I give the course mad props for doing something about this, actually backing up their stance, perhaps it could have been done better.

I do know for a fact that there were 0 adult beverages involved. The cart girl didn't make it around until hole 18.  The group did stop at the turn for waters and hot dogs, which if you're behind on pace I DO NOT agree with. 

3 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Another question to ask is the 4.5 hour expected pace the CPO pace or is that the pace regardless.

I play several courses here that have full tee sheets, several holes and at times the entire course being cpo and they have 4.5 hour or less pace of play and they do exactly what your friends experienced. I’ve never played in over 4.5 hours on those courses and most time even with a midday tee time 4:15 is the norm 

4.5 is the expected regardless of CPO, that's what the pro shop told them. The other 3 courses we played all had similar expectations, were CPO and we never had an issue. 

2 hours ago, MaxEntropy said:

I would be curious to see the exact wording of the "Warning" on the GPS. I've been at resort courses and have seen a timer that indicates where you are relative to expectations, but never did I think it was anything more than informational. Did it literally say something to the effect of "pick up the pace or risk being asked to skip a hole"?

FWIW, I am all for any efforts by courses to encourage proper pace. During one of my Myrtle Beach trips, we were the first group off one day so we could have had an effect on the pace for the entire day - I had zero problem with the marshall encouraging us to keep it moving when we fell behind after a couple brutal holes.

My group didn't see a GPS warning but I am sure that it said, pick it up or risk being moved back into position. Each time we saw the marshal he encouraged us to stay up with the group ahead, which was fine which he also said to the foursome, but he never verbally told the group they would be asked to skip a hole if they didn't. 

1 hour ago, WaffleHouseTour said:

I’m almost afraid to ask this, but why didn’t you send your threesome off first, following a twosome, and have the foursome follow last?  I wouldn’t want to be a threesome following a foursome... but I’d gladly be a foursome following a smaller group. 
 

Unless, of course there were some other games within the game stuff going on 

We had a match play competition going for each day of the trip and groups were determined based on who was playing each other that round. I do know that the foursome was the 1st tee time for our whole group but in hindsight we should have switched when we found out a single had not been paired with our threesome. That's on us! 

42 minutes ago, GaDawg said:

Just my thoughts:

1. If the course had over 200 golfers booked for the day, they should not have let a twosome out.

2. A foursome cannot play as fast as a twosome in most situations.

3. The marshal should have had a verbal discussion with the foursome and asked them to pick it up. The so called warning on the GPS is BS.

4. When it's cart path only, the average 4 1/2 hour rounds go out the window.

5. Not saying that your buddies fall into this category, but the majority of golfers do not play ready golf. As I have stated here many times, golfers stand around waiting on others in the group to get their yardage, take 3 practice swings, hit the shot, wipe their club off, scratch their tail, then the next golfer does the same thing. This x 4, makes for a long round.

Of the group we have one dude who is a slow player, like infuriatingly slow, but he was put into the threesome for that reason. The rest of them are pretty much ready-golfers, if they were slow I would 100% be behind the course moving them and the title of this thread would be "A Course That Actually DOES Something About Slow Play" hahahaha! 

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Guess I don't understand how a course expects a 4some to keep up with a two?  That just doesn't make any sense.  And if the course is that busy, they should have paired up the 2 with at least 1 other if not another pair.  But the other comment above that you all should have switched order and sent out your 3 first and then the 4.  Might have helped out.  

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Searching for balls you can't see from the cart path in 4" rough while playing CPO does not sound like an enjoyable day, let alone after skipping a hole. Interesting setup for a resort course to be so penal during CPO which is asking for problems with 10 min tee times. Having 1 person/cart during COVID was definitely a bonus for CPO as 2 people in a shared cart playing CPO is brutal. I would rather walk in that scenario which isn't always possible on super hilly and spread out courses. 

Sometimes you just need to be the dick of the group, throw etiquette out the window, and go play your shot as opposed to helping others look for balls, especially in another cart. When somebody is frequently loose off the tee and refuses to play a safer club, I'm not helping you find your ball all day. The only time I want help finding my ball is if I hit it directly in the sun and can't even see the line it was on, or into some fescue. 

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3 hours ago, Larryd3 said:

Guess I don't understand how a course expects a 4some to keep up with a two?  That just doesn't make any sense.  And if the course is that busy, they should have paired up the 2 with at least 1 other if not another pair.  But the other comment above that you all should have switched order and sent out your 3 first and then the 4.  Might have helped out.  

Yes, in hindsight this might have done us in.  Once we learned there was no single paired with us we should have switched. 

3 hours ago, BMart519 said:

Searching for balls you can't see from the cart path in 4" rough while playing CPO does not sound like an enjoyable day, let alone after skipping a hole. Interesting setup for a resort course to be so penal during CPO which is asking for problems with 10 min tee times. Having 1 person/cart during COVID was definitely a bonus for CPO as 2 people in a shared cart playing CPO is brutal. I would rather walk in that scenario which isn't always possible on super hilly and spread out courses. 

Sometimes you just need to be the dick of the group, throw etiquette out the window, and go play your shot as opposed to helping others look for balls, especially in another cart. When somebody is frequently loose off the tee and refuses to play a safer club, I'm not helping you find your ball all day. The only time I want help finding my ball is if I hit it directly in the sun and can't even see the line it was on, or into some fescue. 

I would have much rather walked. We did ask but they don't really allow for it, they would have to charge us for carts regardless. It played absolutely brutal as it was. 

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Seems like a lose lose no matter how you look at it. The course did you no favors letting a two some out ahead of you. Plus if they were only on 13 they may have actually caught up to pace of play in the end since you mentioned the back was shorter. The course has a short leash from the sounds of it for pace of play. Feel bad for the guy who was having a great round. CPO is miserable anyway you spin it. Hopefully no one was playing left right golf 😂 

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I dont take a cart if its CPO for this reason. It takes longer than just walking. I can see how that may not be an option while on vacation if you have a cart bag or didnt bring, or arent willing to buy a push cart in town.

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Posted (edited)

My two cents is this.  Seems like the course had a short leash.  Its good that they are at least paying attention most don't.  But simply basing it on time is not correct in my opinion.  They need to actually have someone observing the groups, and see that they are wasting time, and that its not because of CPO.   And did they go over the " Effective Use of Carts in Playing Golf", pamphlet with all players on the course that day.  OH that's right there isn't such a thing because the USGA gives pace of play lip service but they really don't care to do anything about it.  Because I got news for you.  If the course doesn't make it a point to tell the guy whose bag is on the passenger side of the cart that he can drive it, to play ready golf, most won't.  Pay attention when you are on the course and watch for this.

My regular foursome does not dilly dally.  We just drop a ball in deep rough, and don't really look and don't take  a stroke.  We don't look at putts from all sides, and we all drive the carts and walk to our balls, and don't watch others hit.  Two of us shoot mid 80's 2 90's, and we finish in 4- 4hrs 15.  Unless we literally rush through our round we are not going to finish much quicker.  440 for CPO does not seem excessive.

 

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22 hours ago, Tyler86 said:

I dont take a cart if its CPO for this reason. It takes longer than just walking. I can see how that may not be an option while on vacation if you have a cart bag or didnt bring, or arent willing to buy a push cart in town.

I wish they had allowed for this. I need to find it, but I am fairly certain there is a study out there somewhere about how walking a course is on average 23 minutes faster. I was talking to one of the pros about it on the trip.  I'll do some digging.  I love walking, especially with my push cart, you get to experience the course so much more IMO. 

8 hours ago, stuka44 said:

My two cents is this.  Seems like the course had a short leash.  Its good that they are at least paying attention most don't.  But simply basing it on time is not correct in my opinion.  They need to actually have someone observing the groups, and see that they are wasting time, and that its not because of CPO.   And did they go over the " Effective Use of Carts in Playing Golf", pamphlet with all players on the course that day.  OH that's right there isn't such a thing because the USGA gives pace of play lip service but they really don't care to do anything about it.  Because I got news for you.  If the course doesn't make it a point to tell the guy whose bag is on the passenger side of the cart that he can drive it, to play ready golf, most won't.  Pay attention when you are on the course and watch for this.

My regular foursome does not dilly dally.  We just drop a ball in deep rough, and don't really look and don't take  a stroke.  We don't look at putts from all sides, and we all drive the carts and walk to our balls, and don't watch others hit.  Two of us shoot mid 80's 2 90's, and we finish in 4- 4hrs 15.  Unless we literally rush through our round we are not going to finish much quicker.  440 for CPO does not seem excessive.

 

Definitely a short leash IMO especially since they pretty much kept pace with the twosome ahead. I do appreciate a course doing something about slow play, it really is a problem and can ruin an awesome golfing experience especially at a highly rated course.  I do think there is a proper way to go about it and all things need to be considered before having a group skip a hole.  I wish the marshal had been more active in monitoring before issuing the verdict, at least observe 1 or 2 holes issue a verbal warning and then move them; because by the end of it nobody was happy 😅

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What expectation did the course set at the beginning of the round?  If the pro shop or starter let everyone know that they'll be asked to skip a hole if they fall behind, then I don't have much of a problem with them enforcing a policy that they clearly explained up front.  If this wasn't explained up front, then I don't love how this was handled, based on your explanation.  The marshal certainly didn't seem to reinforce the expectations if he passed the group by and didn't warn them.

I sell consulting for a living, and I harp on my consultants constantly that the biggest part of their job is setting and managing client expectations.  What actually happens in a given situation is almost secondary to what people were expecting would happen.

And CPO is the worst.  I don't like riding anyway, but I'd almost rather not play if it's CPO and I'm forced to ride.  I wind up taking my bag off the cart and carrying it half the time.  Especially if I'm away from the cart path and my cart buddy is near it.

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1 hour ago, HardcoreLooper said:

What expectation did the course set at the beginning of the round?  If the pro shop or starter let everyone know that they'll be asked to skip a hole if they fall behind, then I don't have much of a problem with them enforcing a policy that they clearly explained up front.  If this wasn't explained up front, then I don't love how this was handled, based on your explanation.  The marshal certainly didn't seem to reinforce the expectations if he passed the group by and didn't warn them.

I sell consulting for a living, and I harp on my consultants constantly that the biggest part of their job is setting and managing client expectations.  What actually happens in a given situation is almost secondary to what people were expecting would happen.

And CPO is the worst.  I don't like riding anyway, but I'd almost rather not play if it's CPO and I'm forced to ride.  I wind up taking my bag off the cart and carrying it half the time.  Especially if I'm away from the cart path and my cart buddy is near it.

I'm 100% with you.  If it had been possible to walk, we would have totally done it.  Unfortunately, no dice.  

 

There was no expectation explained at the beginning of the round by anyone in the pro shop. They simply said make sure to stay up with the group in front and have fun. If they had issued some sort of verbal PSA at the beginning of the round I would have had no problem with the group being moved. 

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I'm sure I missed it, but were the groups warned at the beginning by staff, and that it would be strictly enforced, i.e. explaining a group would be asked to move a hole ahead. Also, the two some should have finished in 3.5 hours or so, even with cart path only. Was your group being pushed from behind? It sounds more like they were (slightly) screwed because the course was booked up and you were the 2nd and 3rd groups out, necessitating the need for your carts. I wonder if they owned a few more carts that this wouldn't be an issue. Also, was the 4.5 an average? Meaning some play faster, some a little slower. 

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... Reminds me of George Carlin talking about drivers on the road "you ever notice anyone driving slower than you is a MORON and anyone driving faster than you is a MANIAC?" Most courses have a 4 hour suggested playing time for a reason. It is right between fast play 3.5hrs or less and slow play 4.5hrs or more. 

... There are just so many ways to play golf and even players at the same pace can elicit different responses. Playing with 4 guys all having a good time and enjoying each others company, talking, laughing and playing ready golf between conversations is light years better than playing with someone taking 4 practice swings then hitting bad shots and repeating several times on the way to the green OR a really good player thinking they are in a US Open and reading 2nd putts from every possible angle, usually never ready until it is their turn and then taking their sweet time. 

... Add to that there are social golfers that have little interest in shooing their best score or improving their game, just out for some fun with friends having their fair share of alcohol. As long as they keep up and are respectful of the course and other golfers (keep carts away from greens and tees, playing RAP/Country at a level only their 4 some can hear, etc) they have just as much right to the course as the very serious player. I have always felt once you break it all down there really are only 2 types of people. Considerate and inconsiderate, playing golf will usually make one or the other very obvious. 

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14 hours ago, HeathS16 said:

There was no expectation explained at the beginning of the round by anyone in the pro shop. They simply said make sure to stay up with the group in front and have fun. If they had issued some sort of verbal PSA at the beginning of the round I would have had no problem with the group being moved. 

Ouch.  That's pretty poor form then.  It's amazing how many uncomfortable situations can be avoided by setting out clear expectations in advance.  How hard is it for someone to say "Guys, the tee sheet is packed out today.  So we're going to have to ask you to skip a hole if you fall behind pace.  Be sure to keep up; don't feel bad to drop one and keep moving if you hit it in a bad spot."

I've also got to wonder why courses don't do more to set up the course to play faster when they're booked solid.  Cut the rough a little lower, nudge the tee markers up on longer holes, move the pins away from the edges a bit.  

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13 hours ago, JeremyD said:

I'm sure I missed it, but were the groups warned at the beginning by staff, and that it would be strictly enforced, i.e. explaining a group would be asked to move a hole ahead. Also, the two some should have finished in 3.5 hours or so, even with cart path only. Was your group being pushed from behind? It sounds more like they were (slightly) screwed because the course was booked up and you were the 2nd and 3rd groups out, necessitating the need for your carts. I wonder if they owned a few more carts that this wouldn't be an issue. Also, was the 4.5 an average? Meaning some play faster, some a little slower. 

No they did not mention it to us at all before the round.  Pro shop quoted the average pace of play is 4.5 hrs. I assume this means that there are some groups that are slower and some that are faster to get this number, but math isn't exactly my strong suit 🙂. They said CPO does not factor into that. 

10 hours ago, chisag said:

... Reminds me of George Carlin talking about drivers on the road "you ever notice anyone driving slower than you is a MORON and anyone driving faster than you is a MANIAC?" Most courses have a 4 hour suggested playing time for a reason. It is right between fast play 3.5hrs or less and slow play 4.5hrs or more. 

... There are just so many ways to play golf and even players at the same pace can elicit different responses. Playing with 4 guys all having a good time and enjoying each others company, talking, laughing and playing ready golf between conversations is light years better than playing with someone taking 4 practice swings then hitting bad shots and repeating several times on the way to the green OR a really good player thinking they are in a US Open and reading 2nd putts from every possible angle, usually never ready until it is their turn and then taking their sweet time. 

... Add to that there are social golfers that have little interest in shooing their best score or improving their game, just out for some fun with friends having their fair share of alcohol. As long as they keep up and are respectful of the course and other golfers (keep carts away from greens and tees, playing RAP/Country at a level only their 4 some can hear, etc) they have just as much right to the course as the very serious player. I have always felt once you break it all down there really are only 2 types of people. Considerate and inconsiderate, playing golf will usually make one or the other very obvious. 

I always assume the pace of play is 4 hrs, and I try to make sure that I am ready to hit as soon as they guy in front of me is done with his shot, including reading putts, I do better when I can get into a rhythm and play quicker. The highest handicap we had was a guy who is a 15, none of us are "grinders" in the sense of getting US Open caliber looks at putts lol If one of us were to do that the others would rib him to death about it. We all agreed before the trip to look for a ball for no longer than 60 seconds before taking a drop and moving on. That being said, the rough was SUPER tall, like 4 inches, everywhere which meant we lost some golf balls that would have been easily found otherwise hahahaha. 

10 hours ago, HardcoreLooper said:

Ouch.  That's pretty poor form then.  It's amazing how many uncomfortable situations can be avoided by setting out clear expectations in advance.  How hard is it for someone to say "Guys, the tee sheet is packed out today.  So we're going to have to ask you to skip a hole if you fall behind pace.  Be sure to keep up; don't feel bad to drop one and keep moving if you hit it in a bad spot."

I've also got to wonder why courses don't do more to set up the course to play faster when they're booked solid.  Cut the rough a little lower, nudge the tee markers up on longer holes, move the pins away from the edges a bit.  

Something as simple as that would have been so great, just a heads up of the expectations before you get out there.

Yeah that would have been REALLY nice as the course played so tough with the rough being up. I think the rain the previous week (thus the CPO) kept the mowers off for a few days. 

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17 hours ago, HardcoreLooper said:

Ouch.  That's pretty poor form then.  It's amazing how many uncomfortable situations can be avoided by setting out clear expectations in advance.  How hard is it for someone to say "Guys, the tee sheet is packed out today.  So we're going to have to ask you to skip a hole if you fall behind pace.  Be sure to keep up; don't feel bad to drop one and keep moving if you hit it in a bad spot."

I've also got to wonder why courses don't do more to set up the course to play faster when they're booked solid.  Cut the rough a little lower, nudge the tee markers up on longer holes, move the pins away from the edges a bit.  

This drives me nuts when a course set up doesn't match the clientele.  Especially a resort type course that you know gets more than its share of the occasional golfer.  They complain about slow play but leave white tees at 6500 yards & put the cup on a steep slope or short side the bail out area of a par 3. 

If I ran the course and I wanted to push over 200 rounds through a day then I would set up the white tees to be on the shorter side (6100 yards at most) since the occasional golfer for the most part isn't checking course yardage options on the card, they are playing tees by color.  I'd have shorter par 3's set up too.  Come up with a different color tee marker to set up between the white and blue tees.....like pink since its so close to red they will avoid it like the plague.  I would work with the course super to have the hole locations chosen so they are on the flatter spots of the greens and not tucked behind bunkers or water hazards & to not set the mowers to bikini wax length and keep the greens soft to hold those thinned line drives as much as possible! 

If they did these things for regular play it would help the pace of play tremendously.

If there is a back tees tourney being held then have fun setting up the torture chamber and stretch the course yardage, tuck the pins, wax the greens and make them firm.

 

  • Like 3

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  • 2 weeks later...

Sorry, but this whole situation would have brought out my ugly side given High rough, CPO, and they would not allow you to walk. I've been there before and because of it I pretty much try to avoid playing any time\any course that's CPO. At best I would have told the cart workers that I had offered to walk but since I was forced to use the cart, keep it on the path, and was made to skip a hole, I am not about to carry my stuff now - they could come get it in the parking lot if they like or I would bring it to them when I was done using it..... At worst I would have had words with the ranger - maybe to the point he tosses me off the course, that's fine by me as he's already ruined my round ... particularly after he came past several times and said nothing more that try to keep up with a two-some? Yeaaahhhh ok then.  I might have just pulled my bag off the cart and walked off when he said to skip a hole and the cart crew could come out and get the abandoned cart...... yeah, I can definitely be an ******* when I get riled up... Good thing it doesn't happen too often.

The way I see it, I paid to play 18 and IMHO 4:40 IS QUITE REASONABLE FOR CPO - ESPECIALLY WHEN THE ROUGH IS THAT DEEP. THE 4:30 WAS STATED TO BE AN AVERAGE SO SO SOMEONE HAS TO HAVE COME IN OVER 4:30. That course would get added to a short list of courses that would never see any more of my money and get bad mouthed whenever it came up in conversation..... Actually, what course was it? I want to put it on my never play there list.

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On 6/7/2021 at 5:14 PM, THEZIPR23 said:

Wish this was done at every course. Pace of play would no longer be an issue. 

Our men's group had a similar situation this past Wednesday  - but a different perspective. The foursome in front of us was extremely slow to the point you could take a nap (re; sarcasm) at every tee box. We called the Pro and he came out and asked them to skip a hole. They were so slow there as no one ahead of them on the next two holes in front of them. If I was in that foursome, I'd be ok with the Pro asking us to do that. 

Wish our Club would enforce pace of play. Wife and I abandoned a round on Friday after 14 holes (already logged 4 1/2 hours). There were 2 foursomes in front of us that spent more time looking for their lost balls than hitting them.

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My observations:

Overbooked tee sheet??  Yet there was a twosome in front of your first group?  And a twosome behind your threesome??  Poor management.

Why was the twosome a hole and a half ahead of your first group at the start of the round if they weren't very speedy anyway?  Was your group late or did the twosome start early?

If your first group maintained that hole and a half position behind the twosome, why did it take until hole 14 for the marshal to make a decision the group had to skip a hole?  Had the twosome been a foursome, there likely wouldn't have been an issue.

4.5 hours for an average round time seems reasonable given CPO and high rough.  Finishing just 10 minutes later than average doesn't seem unreasonable, but would it have been a 5 hour round if they hadn't skipped a hole?  

Basing the course's cart inventory on the average turnaround time means that management clearly does not have enough rental cart inventory if people were waiting for carts.  Poor management.

Personally, I don't care how awesome the course is, if it's CPO I'm not playing.  I played at Camelback Resort in Phoenix not long after one of their rains and was not told it was CPO until I rolled up to the starter.  Have fun... my ass!!  

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There should have been some leeway considering it was cart paths only and as long as there was no groups backed up behind them there shouldn’t have been a problem.

I guess my main concern/question is: If they were so booked up, why were they allowing a 2 some on the course instead of pairing them up with someone else. 
 

 

i

  • Like 1
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On 7/5/2021 at 1:59 AM, Another Steve said:

Sorry, but this whole situation would have brought out my ugly side given High rough, CPO, and they would not allow you to walk. I've been there before and because of it I pretty much try to avoid playing any time\any course that's CPO. At best I would have told the cart workers that I had offered to walk but since I was forced to use the cart, keep it on the path, and was made to skip a hole, I am not about to carry my stuff now - they could come get it in the parking lot if they like or I would bring it to them when I was done using it..... At worst I would have had words with the ranger - maybe to the point he tosses me off the course, that's fine by me as he's already ruined my round ... particularly after he came past several times and said nothing more that try to keep up with a two-some? Yeaaahhhh ok then.  I might have just pulled my bag off the cart and walked off when he said to skip a hole and the cart crew could come out and get the abandoned cart...... yeah, I can definitely be an ******* when I get riled up... Good thing it doesn't happen too often.

The way I see it, I paid to play 18 and IMHO 4:40 IS QUITE REASONABLE FOR CPO - ESPECIALLY WHEN THE ROUGH IS THAT DEEP. THE 4:30 WAS STATED TO BE AN AVERAGE SO SO SOMEONE HAS TO HAVE COME IN OVER 4:30. That course would get added to a short list of courses that would never see any more of my money and get bad mouthed whenever it came up in conversation..... Actually, what course was it? I want to put it on my never play there list.

It was truly not a good situation. I wish there had been more effective communication about the pace.  And it was such a shame because it is a very good course, Ledgestone Golf Club was the name. 

On 7/5/2021 at 1:50 PM, tony@CIC said:

Our men's group had a similar situation this past Wednesday  - but a different perspective. The foursome in front of us was extremely slow to the point you could take a nap (re; sarcasm) at every tee box. We called the Pro and he came out and asked them to skip a hole. They were so slow there as no one ahead of them on the next two holes in front of them. If I was in that foursome, I'd be ok with the Pro asking us to do that. 

Wish our Club would enforce pace of play. Wife and I abandoned a round on Friday after 14 holes (already logged 4 1/2 hours). There were 2 foursomes in front of us that spent more time looking for their lost balls than hitting them.

MAN...4.5 for 14 holes. No thank you, that is brutal. See we had match play competition going on during this trip and we just made a local rule where if you couldn't find the ball after the 2.5 minutes you could just drop and play on the line you last saw, with the rough being so high you couldn't find much unless you walked directly over it lol. 

On 7/5/2021 at 2:40 PM, Kenny B said:

My observations:

Overbooked tee sheet??  Yet there was a twosome in front of your first group?  And a twosome behind your threesome??  Poor management.

Why was the twosome a hole and a half ahead of your first group at the start of the round if they weren't very speedy anyway?  Was your group late or did the twosome start early?

If your first group maintained that hole and a half position behind the twosome, why did it take until hole 14 for the marshal to make a decision the group had to skip a hole?  Had the twosome been a foursome, there likely wouldn't have been an issue.

4.5 hours for an average round time seems reasonable given CPO and high rough.  Finishing just 10 minutes later than average doesn't seem unreasonable, but would it have been a 5 hour round if they hadn't skipped a hole?  

Basing the course's cart inventory on the average turnaround time means that management clearly does not have enough rental cart inventory if people were waiting for carts.  Poor management.

Personally, I don't care how awesome the course is, if it's CPO I'm not playing.  I played at Camelback Resort in Phoenix not long after one of their rains and was not told it was CPO until I rolled up to the starter.  Have fun... my ass!!  

CPO sucks.  Plain and simple. Nobody likes it, not being told until I got to the No 1 tee...that's brutal.  It's almost like booking a course that never tells you the greens have been punched until you roll up to No 1 green. 

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