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Pace of Play Question


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I'm sure I missed it, but were the groups warned at the beginning by staff, and that it would be strictly enforced, i.e. explaining a group would be asked to move a hole ahead. Also, the two some should have finished in 3.5 hours or so, even with cart path only. Was your group being pushed from behind? It sounds more like they were (slightly) screwed because the course was booked up and you were the 2nd and 3rd groups out, necessitating the need for your carts. I wonder if they owned a few more carts that this wouldn't be an issue. Also, was the 4.5 an average? Meaning some play faster, some a little slower. 

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... Reminds me of George Carlin talking about drivers on the road "you ever notice anyone driving slower than you is a MORON and anyone driving faster than you is a MANIAC?" Most courses have a 4 hour suggested playing time for a reason. It is right between fast play 3.5hrs or less and slow play 4.5hrs or more. 

... There are just so many ways to play golf and even players at the same pace can elicit different responses. Playing with 4 guys all having a good time and enjoying each others company, talking, laughing and playing ready golf between conversations is light years better than playing with someone taking 4 practice swings then hitting bad shots and repeating several times on the way to the green OR a really good player thinking they are in a US Open and reading 2nd putts from every possible angle, usually never ready until it is their turn and then taking their sweet time. 

... Add to that there are social golfers that have little interest in shooing their best score or improving their game, just out for some fun with friends having their fair share of alcohol. As long as they keep up and are respectful of the course and other golfers (keep carts away from greens and tees, playing RAP/Country at a level only their 4 some can hear, etc) they have just as much right to the course as the very serious player. I have always felt once you break it all down there really are only 2 types of people. Considerate and inconsiderate, playing golf will usually make one or the other very obvious. 

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14 hours ago, HeathS16 said:

There was no expectation explained at the beginning of the round by anyone in the pro shop. They simply said make sure to stay up with the group in front and have fun. If they had issued some sort of verbal PSA at the beginning of the round I would have had no problem with the group being moved. 

Ouch.  That's pretty poor form then.  It's amazing how many uncomfortable situations can be avoided by setting out clear expectations in advance.  How hard is it for someone to say "Guys, the tee sheet is packed out today.  So we're going to have to ask you to skip a hole if you fall behind pace.  Be sure to keep up; don't feel bad to drop one and keep moving if you hit it in a bad spot."

I've also got to wonder why courses don't do more to set up the course to play faster when they're booked solid.  Cut the rough a little lower, nudge the tee markers up on longer holes, move the pins away from the edges a bit.  

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13 hours ago, JeremyD said:

I'm sure I missed it, but were the groups warned at the beginning by staff, and that it would be strictly enforced, i.e. explaining a group would be asked to move a hole ahead. Also, the two some should have finished in 3.5 hours or so, even with cart path only. Was your group being pushed from behind? It sounds more like they were (slightly) screwed because the course was booked up and you were the 2nd and 3rd groups out, necessitating the need for your carts. I wonder if they owned a few more carts that this wouldn't be an issue. Also, was the 4.5 an average? Meaning some play faster, some a little slower. 

No they did not mention it to us at all before the round.  Pro shop quoted the average pace of play is 4.5 hrs. I assume this means that there are some groups that are slower and some that are faster to get this number, but math isn't exactly my strong suit 🙂. They said CPO does not factor into that. 

10 hours ago, chisag said:

... Reminds me of George Carlin talking about drivers on the road "you ever notice anyone driving slower than you is a MORON and anyone driving faster than you is a MANIAC?" Most courses have a 4 hour suggested playing time for a reason. It is right between fast play 3.5hrs or less and slow play 4.5hrs or more. 

... There are just so many ways to play golf and even players at the same pace can elicit different responses. Playing with 4 guys all having a good time and enjoying each others company, talking, laughing and playing ready golf between conversations is light years better than playing with someone taking 4 practice swings then hitting bad shots and repeating several times on the way to the green OR a really good player thinking they are in a US Open and reading 2nd putts from every possible angle, usually never ready until it is their turn and then taking their sweet time. 

... Add to that there are social golfers that have little interest in shooing their best score or improving their game, just out for some fun with friends having their fair share of alcohol. As long as they keep up and are respectful of the course and other golfers (keep carts away from greens and tees, playing RAP/Country at a level only their 4 some can hear, etc) they have just as much right to the course as the very serious player. I have always felt once you break it all down there really are only 2 types of people. Considerate and inconsiderate, playing golf will usually make one or the other very obvious. 

I always assume the pace of play is 4 hrs, and I try to make sure that I am ready to hit as soon as they guy in front of me is done with his shot, including reading putts, I do better when I can get into a rhythm and play quicker. The highest handicap we had was a guy who is a 15, none of us are "grinders" in the sense of getting US Open caliber looks at putts lol If one of us were to do that the others would rib him to death about it. We all agreed before the trip to look for a ball for no longer than 60 seconds before taking a drop and moving on. That being said, the rough was SUPER tall, like 4 inches, everywhere which meant we lost some golf balls that would have been easily found otherwise hahahaha. 

10 hours ago, HardcoreLooper said:

Ouch.  That's pretty poor form then.  It's amazing how many uncomfortable situations can be avoided by setting out clear expectations in advance.  How hard is it for someone to say "Guys, the tee sheet is packed out today.  So we're going to have to ask you to skip a hole if you fall behind pace.  Be sure to keep up; don't feel bad to drop one and keep moving if you hit it in a bad spot."

I've also got to wonder why courses don't do more to set up the course to play faster when they're booked solid.  Cut the rough a little lower, nudge the tee markers up on longer holes, move the pins away from the edges a bit.  

Something as simple as that would have been so great, just a heads up of the expectations before you get out there.

Yeah that would have been REALLY nice as the course played so tough with the rough being up. I think the rain the previous week (thus the CPO) kept the mowers off for a few days. 

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17 hours ago, HardcoreLooper said:

Ouch.  That's pretty poor form then.  It's amazing how many uncomfortable situations can be avoided by setting out clear expectations in advance.  How hard is it for someone to say "Guys, the tee sheet is packed out today.  So we're going to have to ask you to skip a hole if you fall behind pace.  Be sure to keep up; don't feel bad to drop one and keep moving if you hit it in a bad spot."

I've also got to wonder why courses don't do more to set up the course to play faster when they're booked solid.  Cut the rough a little lower, nudge the tee markers up on longer holes, move the pins away from the edges a bit.  

This drives me nuts when a course set up doesn't match the clientele.  Especially a resort type course that you know gets more than its share of the occasional golfer.  They complain about slow play but leave white tees at 6500 yards & put the cup on a steep slope or short side the bail out area of a par 3. 

If I ran the course and I wanted to push over 200 rounds through a day then I would set up the white tees to be on the shorter side (6100 yards at most) since the occasional golfer for the most part isn't checking course yardage options on the card, they are playing tees by color.  I'd have shorter par 3's set up too.  Come up with a different color tee marker to set up between the white and blue tees.....like pink since its so close to red they will avoid it like the plague.  I would work with the course super to have the hole locations chosen so they are on the flatter spots of the greens and not tucked behind bunkers or water hazards & to not set the mowers to bikini wax length and keep the greens soft to hold those thinned line drives as much as possible! 

If they did these things for regular play it would help the pace of play tremendously.

If there is a back tees tourney being held then have fun setting up the torture chamber and stretch the course yardage, tuck the pins, wax the greens and make them firm.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Sorry, but this whole situation would have brought out my ugly side given High rough, CPO, and they would not allow you to walk. I've been there before and because of it I pretty much try to avoid playing any time\any course that's CPO. At best I would have told the cart workers that I had offered to walk but since I was forced to use the cart, keep it on the path, and was made to skip a hole, I am not about to carry my stuff now - they could come get it in the parking lot if they like or I would bring it to them when I was done using it..... At worst I would have had words with the ranger - maybe to the point he tosses me off the course, that's fine by me as he's already ruined my round ... particularly after he came past several times and said nothing more that try to keep up with a two-some? Yeaaahhhh ok then.  I might have just pulled my bag off the cart and walked off when he said to skip a hole and the cart crew could come out and get the abandoned cart...... yeah, I can definitely be an ******* when I get riled up... Good thing it doesn't happen too often.

The way I see it, I paid to play 18 and IMHO 4:40 IS QUITE REASONABLE FOR CPO - ESPECIALLY WHEN THE ROUGH IS THAT DEEP. THE 4:30 WAS STATED TO BE AN AVERAGE SO SO SOMEONE HAS TO HAVE COME IN OVER 4:30. That course would get added to a short list of courses that would never see any more of my money and get bad mouthed whenever it came up in conversation..... Actually, what course was it? I want to put it on my never play there list.

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On 6/7/2021 at 5:14 PM, THEZIPR23 said:

Wish this was done at every course. Pace of play would no longer be an issue. 

Our men's group had a similar situation this past Wednesday  - but a different perspective. The foursome in front of us was extremely slow to the point you could take a nap (re; sarcasm) at every tee box. We called the Pro and he came out and asked them to skip a hole. They were so slow there as no one ahead of them on the next two holes in front of them. If I was in that foursome, I'd be ok with the Pro asking us to do that. 

Wish our Club would enforce pace of play. Wife and I abandoned a round on Friday after 14 holes (already logged 4 1/2 hours). There were 2 foursomes in front of us that spent more time looking for their lost balls than hitting them.

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My observations:

Overbooked tee sheet??  Yet there was a twosome in front of your first group?  And a twosome behind your threesome??  Poor management.

Why was the twosome a hole and a half ahead of your first group at the start of the round if they weren't very speedy anyway?  Was your group late or did the twosome start early?

If your first group maintained that hole and a half position behind the twosome, why did it take until hole 14 for the marshal to make a decision the group had to skip a hole?  Had the twosome been a foursome, there likely wouldn't have been an issue.

4.5 hours for an average round time seems reasonable given CPO and high rough.  Finishing just 10 minutes later than average doesn't seem unreasonable, but would it have been a 5 hour round if they hadn't skipped a hole?  

Basing the course's cart inventory on the average turnaround time means that management clearly does not have enough rental cart inventory if people were waiting for carts.  Poor management.

Personally, I don't care how awesome the course is, if it's CPO I'm not playing.  I played at Camelback Resort in Phoenix not long after one of their rains and was not told it was CPO until I rolled up to the starter.  Have fun... my ass!!  

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There should have been some leeway considering it was cart paths only and as long as there was no groups backed up behind them there shouldn’t have been a problem.

I guess my main concern/question is: If they were so booked up, why were they allowing a 2 some on the course instead of pairing them up with someone else. 
 

 

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On 7/5/2021 at 1:59 AM, Another Steve said:

Sorry, but this whole situation would have brought out my ugly side given High rough, CPO, and they would not allow you to walk. I've been there before and because of it I pretty much try to avoid playing any time\any course that's CPO. At best I would have told the cart workers that I had offered to walk but since I was forced to use the cart, keep it on the path, and was made to skip a hole, I am not about to carry my stuff now - they could come get it in the parking lot if they like or I would bring it to them when I was done using it..... At worst I would have had words with the ranger - maybe to the point he tosses me off the course, that's fine by me as he's already ruined my round ... particularly after he came past several times and said nothing more that try to keep up with a two-some? Yeaaahhhh ok then.  I might have just pulled my bag off the cart and walked off when he said to skip a hole and the cart crew could come out and get the abandoned cart...... yeah, I can definitely be an ******* when I get riled up... Good thing it doesn't happen too often.

The way I see it, I paid to play 18 and IMHO 4:40 IS QUITE REASONABLE FOR CPO - ESPECIALLY WHEN THE ROUGH IS THAT DEEP. THE 4:30 WAS STATED TO BE AN AVERAGE SO SO SOMEONE HAS TO HAVE COME IN OVER 4:30. That course would get added to a short list of courses that would never see any more of my money and get bad mouthed whenever it came up in conversation..... Actually, what course was it? I want to put it on my never play there list.

It was truly not a good situation. I wish there had been more effective communication about the pace.  And it was such a shame because it is a very good course, Ledgestone Golf Club was the name. 

On 7/5/2021 at 1:50 PM, tony@CIC said:

Our men's group had a similar situation this past Wednesday  - but a different perspective. The foursome in front of us was extremely slow to the point you could take a nap (re; sarcasm) at every tee box. We called the Pro and he came out and asked them to skip a hole. They were so slow there as no one ahead of them on the next two holes in front of them. If I was in that foursome, I'd be ok with the Pro asking us to do that. 

Wish our Club would enforce pace of play. Wife and I abandoned a round on Friday after 14 holes (already logged 4 1/2 hours). There were 2 foursomes in front of us that spent more time looking for their lost balls than hitting them.

MAN...4.5 for 14 holes. No thank you, that is brutal. See we had match play competition going on during this trip and we just made a local rule where if you couldn't find the ball after the 2.5 minutes you could just drop and play on the line you last saw, with the rough being so high you couldn't find much unless you walked directly over it lol. 

On 7/5/2021 at 2:40 PM, Kenny B said:

My observations:

Overbooked tee sheet??  Yet there was a twosome in front of your first group?  And a twosome behind your threesome??  Poor management.

Why was the twosome a hole and a half ahead of your first group at the start of the round if they weren't very speedy anyway?  Was your group late or did the twosome start early?

If your first group maintained that hole and a half position behind the twosome, why did it take until hole 14 for the marshal to make a decision the group had to skip a hole?  Had the twosome been a foursome, there likely wouldn't have been an issue.

4.5 hours for an average round time seems reasonable given CPO and high rough.  Finishing just 10 minutes later than average doesn't seem unreasonable, but would it have been a 5 hour round if they hadn't skipped a hole?  

Basing the course's cart inventory on the average turnaround time means that management clearly does not have enough rental cart inventory if people were waiting for carts.  Poor management.

Personally, I don't care how awesome the course is, if it's CPO I'm not playing.  I played at Camelback Resort in Phoenix not long after one of their rains and was not told it was CPO until I rolled up to the starter.  Have fun... my ass!!  

CPO sucks.  Plain and simple. Nobody likes it, not being told until I got to the No 1 tee...that's brutal.  It's almost like booking a course that never tells you the greens have been punched until you roll up to No 1 green. 

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I may be completely off my rocker but I am a firm believer that motorized golf carts are the biggest issue to slow play most of the time. If golfers were required to walk, pace would actually improve. My basis for this is the fact that pace of play issues are not as prevalent in other countries where walking is far more commonplace.

I can't begin to explain the number of times I have seen guys driving aimlessly around a particular hole searching for golf balls for seemingly endless amounts of time. Far longer than the three minute limit set forth by the USGA. Two guys in a cart with one range finder on opposite sides of the fairway. One has to wait for the other to get a measurement before driving 150 yards to the second ball to begin the process of playing a shot. CPO makes it worse because guys don't know how to maneuver a golf course anyway considering most are conditioned to ride in a cart without knowing simple procedures to help speed themselves along.

Walking takes each player directly to their golf ball. Thus eliminating many of the pitfalls that inherently slow play down in a motorized cart. The issue in the States is, courses would never forego the additional revenue cart rental provides to make walking-only a more common practice. Praise be to Mike Keiser for creating Bandon and refusing to cave to the pressure of having motorized carts.

An unpopular opinion, I'm sure. But one I stand behind firmly!

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4 hours ago, sixcat said:

I may be completely off my rocker but I am a firm believer that motorized golf carts are the biggest issue to slow play most of the time. If golfers were required to walk, pace would actually improve. My basis for this is the fact that pace of play issues are not as prevalent in other countries where walking is far more commonplace.

I can't begin to explain the number of times I have seen guys driving aimlessly around a particular hole searching for golf balls for seemingly endless amounts of time. Far longer than the three minute limit set forth by the USGA. Two guys in a cart with one range finder on opposite sides of the fairway. One has to wait for the other to get a measurement before driving 150 yards to the second ball to begin the process of playing a shot. CPO makes it worse because guys don't know how to maneuver a golf course anyway considering most are conditioned to ride in a cart without knowing simple procedures to help speed themselves along.

Walking takes each player directly to their golf ball. Thus eliminating many of the pitfalls that inherently slow play down in a motorized cart. The issue in the States is, courses would never forego the additional revenue cart rental provides to make walking-only a more common practice. Praise be to Mike Keiser for creating Bandon and refusing to cave to the pressure of having motorized carts.

An unpopular opinion, I'm sure. But one I stand behind firmly!

I don't think you are far off here.  I bought a push cart a few years back and I use it every chance I get as I don't want to pay for the cart, it's healthier and I experience the golf better! When on vacation I'm cool with carts but I love it when courses allow you to walk. 

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4 hours ago, sixcat said:

I may be completely off my rocker but I am a firm believer that motorized golf carts are the biggest issue to slow play most of the time. If golfers were required to walk, pace would actually improve. My basis for this is the fact that pace of play issues are not as prevalent in other countries where walking is far more commonplace.

I can't begin to explain the number of times I have seen guys driving aimlessly around a particular hole searching for golf balls for seemingly endless amounts of time. Far longer than the three minute limit set forth by the USGA. Two guys in a cart with one range finder on opposite sides of the fairway. One has to wait for the other to get a measurement before driving 150 yards to the second ball to begin the process of playing a shot. CPO makes it worse because guys don't know how to maneuver a golf course anyway considering most are conditioned to ride in a cart without knowing simple procedures to help speed themselves along.

Walking takes each player directly to their golf ball. Thus eliminating many of the pitfalls that inherently slow play down in a motorized cart. The issue in the States is, courses would never forego the additional revenue cart rental provides to make walking-only a more common practice. Praise be to Mike Keiser for creating Bandon and refusing to cave to the pressure of having motorized carts.

An unpopular opinion, I'm sure. But one I stand behind firmly!

It still boils down to the guy using the cart. Yes they may be in carts but it is not the cart that is slowing them down. 

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Just now, THEZIPR23 said:

It still boils down to the guy using the cart. Yes they may be in carts but it is not the cart that is slowing them down. 

 

... Yup! I generally find walkers to play faster. Go to their own ball and play ready golf. That said, I have been behind groups that all wander to one ball at a time, watch the shot, then all walk to the next ball instead of all going to their ball. I have said this many time but I think there are basically only 2 types of golfers. Those that are considerate of others and those that are not. 

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1 minute ago, chisag said:

I have been behind groups that all wander to one ball at a time, watch the shot, then all walk to the next ball instead of all going to their ball. 

I have quite literally, never seen this in 35 years of playing the game! Seeing something like this would definitely alter my perception and likely force me to amend my belief.

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5 minutes ago, THEZIPR23 said:

It still boils down to the guy using the cart. Yes they may be in carts but it is not the cart that is slowing them down. 

In theory a cart should be faster every time right!? 

1 minute ago, chisag said:

 

... Yup! I generally find walkers to play faster. Go to their own ball and play ready golf. That said, I have been behind groups that all wander to one ball at a time, watch the shot, then all walk to the next ball instead of all going to their ball. I have said this many time but I think there are basically only 2 types of golfers. Those that are considerate of others and those that are not. 

LOL really? I have never seen that! Ever, what's the point of walking at that point? 

There is a lot of truth to this too.  Sometimes problems like this arise simply out of some not being aware enough of others around them, which can be applied to a lot of things in life. 

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4 minutes ago, HeathS16 said:

In theory a cart should be faster every time right!? 

LOL really? I have never seen that! Ever, what's the point of walking at that point? 

There is a lot of truth to this too.  Sometimes problems like this arise simply out of some not being aware enough of others around them, which can be applied to a lot of things in life. 

Yes. But Sam is right in that it is those who care and those who don't. @sixcat is right too in the fact that most of the people who fall in the don't care camp ride in carts.

Slow play no matter how you slice it comes down to the individual golfer. 

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36 minutes ago, THEZIPR23 said:

It still boils down to the guy using the cart. Yes they may be in carts but it is not the cart that is slowing them down. 

Semantics, I suppose. The cart provides a false sense of security where pace of play is concerned. Some people couldn't possibly be slow because they ride in a cart. I've seen it, and heard people say it, for 35 years. The cart, in the mind of some people, automatically means faster play. Which couldn't be father from reality!

Just last night, a guy giving his new girlfriend a golf lesson wouldn't let me go off #1 ahead of him. His reasoning was, I was walking, they were riding. I couldn't possibly play as fast as them. Considering the young lady hadn't ever stepped foot on a golf course, he was terribly wrong. I played all up his a$$ for three holes until he finally let me go ahead of them on the 4th tee. Where he proceeded to make the statement "I'm not waiting on you! Move along or I'm hitting into you!"

I laughed and walked away. But standing in the parking lot at dusk, I made sure to let him know I was coming off the 18th green while he and his girlfriend were being escorted off of #9 by staff due to darkness.

My point, I think we're saying similar things in very different ways!

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59 minutes ago, sixcat said:

I have quite literally, never seen this in 35 years of playing the game! Seeing something like this would definitely alter my perception and likely force me to amend my belief.

 

... Remember I play up to 6 and 7 times a week and at least 75% of the time as a single so while it is certainly not a common occurrence, it is not rare either. Usually older guys although I have been behind women in a 4some that did it too. Although to be fair 4 women are usually the fastest players. We past one group at a retirement community course in Chicago that said "we have nowhere to be and just enjoying each others company so please play through". I am surprised you have not run across this. It happened in the midwest more than here in Phoenix but it happens here too. I should add it is always golfers with push carts, never walkers carrying. And as you have stated, it happens MUCH more with riding carts than with walkers. 

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1 minute ago, chisag said:

 

... Remember I play up to 6 and 7 times a week and at least 75% of the time as a single so while it is certainly not a common occurrence, it is not rare either. Usually older guys although I have been behind women in a 4some that did it too. Although to be fair 4 women are usually the fastest players. We past one group at a retirement community course in Chicago that said "we have nowhere to be and just enjoying each others company so please play through". I am surprised you have not run across this. It happened in the midwest more than here in Phoenix but it happens here too. I should add it is always golfers with push carts, never walkers carrying. And as you have stated, it happens MUCH more with riding carts than with walkers. 

I can't get over the first sentence here, 6-7 times per week! That's the dream! 

But seriously, the statement of groups of women being the fastest is truth! Played behind a 4some two days ago and my buddy and I didn't catch them until hole 3! They immediately let us through and were awesome! Even ribbed me for a shot that missed the fairway. 

 

Not surprised that it would be push cart guys, the times I have carried I don't want that many extra steps if I can help it! 

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... LOL, 6-7 times a week when the weather is great. Normally only 4-5 times a week. 🤪  

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13 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... Remember I play up to 6 and 7 times a week and at least 75% of the time as a single so while it is certainly not a common occurrence, it is not rare either. Usually older guys although I have been behind women in a 4some that did it too. Although to be fair 4 women are usually the fastest players. We past one group at a retirement community course in Chicago that said "we have nowhere to be and just enjoying each others company so please play through". I am surprised you have not run across this. It happened in the midwest more than here in Phoenix but it happens here too. I should add it is always golfers with push carts, never walkers carrying. And as you have stated, it happens MUCH more with riding carts than with walkers. 

I play every day, weather permitting. My kids are both in high school and self sufficient and my wife travels a lot for work. I play golf every afternoon after leaving the office. Some days are better than others. I can't always get out of the office in time to get in 18 holes. Two-thirds of the afternoon rounds are either 9 or 12 holes. This certainly hasn't always been the case considering I was responsible for dinner, homework and bedtime routine when my daughters were younger. But by-in-large, I have averaged 4+ days a week for 30 years.

I mentioned this to a few regular walkers at my club last night. None of the five of us could ever recall seeing anything similar. 

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On 7/8/2021 at 4:25 PM, THEZIPR23 said:

Yes. But Sam is right in that it is those who care and those who don't. @sixcat is right too in the fact that most of the people who fall in the don't care camp ride in carts.

Slow play no matter how you slice it comes down to the individual golfer. 

Yes, 100%.  Yesterday I was a single, behind 3 decent golfers.  I actually fell behind them, but no one was behind me.  But I’ve also been behind another single that was slow as 10w40 in the UP winter.

It really comes down to the skill of the people in the group.  A few years ago, my dad and I were playing behind some guys that couldn’t even reach the fairway, and they absolutely insisted on playing from the tips.  They would have probably had a lot more fun, and kept pace a lot better from the front tees.  That was a 5 hour round, which halfway through I lost my patience.


Behind those three guys yesterday, on an unfamiliar course I did 18 in 2:35, those guys were even quicker.  
 

personally I think 4 hour rounds are ridiculously slow.  3 tops.  Anything north of 4 is just too dang long.

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On 6/7/2021 at 5:57 PM, HeathS16 said:

We ended up completing our round about 10 behind pace but were not being pushed by the twosome behind us.

I think that most people will agree... pace of play is dictated by the group in front of you and not by the group behind you.

Also, I've been playing golf for well over 30 years and have belong to several different clubs. Not one of them had an average anything close to a 4.5 hour round, and if they did, I would not have been a member there.

My final point... I belonged to a club that would ask you to pick up and proceed to the next tee after 2 warnings to pickup the pace. That particular club had the best marshals, and if any paying customers gave the marshals a hard time they would ask the group to leave the course, report to the proshop and receive their refund. They were also told not to return again unless they could keep pace of play. That was 20 years ago... and the club has since been purchased by Club Link.

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On 7/10/2021 at 10:19 AM, Shankster said:

Yes, 100%.  Yesterday I was a single, behind 3 decent golfers.  I actually fell behind them, but no one was behind me.  But I’ve also been behind another single that was slow as 10w40 in the UP winter.

It really comes down to the skill of the people in the group.  A few years ago, my dad and I were playing behind some guys that couldn’t even reach the fairway, and they absolutely insisted on playing from the tips.  They would have probably had a lot more fun, and kept pace a lot better from the front tees.  That was a 5 hour round, which halfway through I lost my patience.


Behind those three guys yesterday, on an unfamiliar course I did 18 in 2:35, those guys were even quicker.  
 

personally I think 4 hour rounds are ridiculously slow.  3 tops.  Anything north of 4 is just too dang long.

I agree anything north of 4 hours just drags. I Mean, on a good driving day I can walk 18 in 2:15 flat. Those are the best mornings.... 🙂 

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On 7/10/2021 at 10:36 AM, Riverboat said:

I would like to say I'm shocked at how many people on here are fine with a 4.5 hour or longer round, but I'm not.  It explains why so many rounds take so unbearably long.  Golf should NEVER take longer than 4 hours--3 to 3.5 is actually far more reasonable and the standard in most of the rest of the world.

1. Even though you have a cart, it's not illegal to do some walking. Drop one guy off at his ball and go to the other to prepare to hit.  Your buddy can then walk to the cart after hitting his shot.

2. Do not wait until it is your turn to even begin thinking about your shot. You should be ready to hit when it's your turn.

3. One practice swing.

4. Stop standing over the ball forever before your swing.  You are not Jack Nicklaus.

5. Save the jokes and stories for when it's not someone's turn to hit.  There is nothing more aggravating than being behind a group that is already two holes behind and they are all standing on the tee listening to one guy tell his hilariously funny anecdote.

I coached golf for 25 years and have helped many friends improve their game.  One of the biggest tips I've given for improvement is "Play faster."  I have never gotten someone to speed up and not seen their scores improve.  Rhythm gets better and they stop hitting horrible shots caused by "paralysis through analysis."  

Final thought--Slow play is very much like smoking.  It's bad for you, but even more egregious is that it negatively affects all the innocent people stuck being around you.

I don't disagree,  but if you're like me and play muni's and public courses, it will definitely take no less than 4 hours. They pack the players on and they don't really care about time... even though they make a show of caring.

I find no difference in walkers vs. carters as far as time goes. I've walked my fair share in the past. I can no longer walk more than 9 due to back problems and a surgically repaired shoulder. 

Unless there is no one ahead of you... and the guy(s) ahead of them, it is just going to be 4 - 4.5 hours.

 

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16 minutes ago, silver & black said:

I don't disagree,  but if you're like me and play muni's and public courses, it will definitely take no less than 4 hours. They pack the players on and they don't really care about time... even though they make a show of caring.

I find no difference in walkers vs. carters as far as time goes. I've walked my fair share in the past. I can no longer walk more than 9 due to back problems and a surgically repaired shoulder. 

Unless there is no one ahead of you... and the guy(s) ahead of them, it is just going to be 4 - 4.5 hours.

I play a muni a lot, and it really depends on the day and time. Last summer my buddy and I played every other Wednesday at 8-8:30am. I was home and eating lunch by 12. I played a semi-private this weekend and it was a hair over 4 hours on a Saturday afternoon, which really wasn't bad all things considered. 

Anything over 4.5 hours and yeah, it's a complete drag. Especially this time of year when it can get humid pretty quickly. It's just physically draining to try and grind it out in those conditions. 

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On any public or semi-private (especially on weekends), I expect 4.5+ hours. Doesn't bother me, I use it to relax and enjoy the day and thank the good Lord that I am able to play golf that day 🙂 It's nice not to be rushed sometimes.

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On 6/9/2021 at 5:59 PM, HeathS16 said:

I wish the marshal had been more active in monitoring before issuing the verdict, at least observe 1 or 2 holes issue a verbal warning and then move them; because by the end of it nobody was happy

This is what most courses' marshals don't do.

From what I've observed, all they do is take their lap around the course, and if they see a gap between groups they stop and say something to the slower group, without asking if something held them up or watching the group to see if something unusual contributed to slowing them down.

I've also learned that there are courses who care about their players' golf experience, and there are courses that care only about their rounds/day tally sheet. Both monitor pace of play, but how they handle slow play is different. At the former, the marshals are polite and encourage quicker pace after observing or following the slow group. The latter only see an open area on the course or get their electronic message and act like a**-oles when they approach the golfers. Sounds like you encountered the latter. How you treat people matters, and not for nothing, if you (the course) are going to charge your players a premium rate, DON'T BE A DICK. You can see examples of this in my course review threads. My league has discontinued play at courses that treat people like crap. We had another this season that KNEW we were a tournament play group of 44 golfers and tried to do exactly what your group encountered, they tried to make a tournament play group skip a hole without observing or offering any warnings to the group, and rolled up and started calling the players names.

Looking at the slow play issue from both sides, more players than not play slower than they should. A major contributor to that is misuse of the two player cart. Golf is intended to be a walking game, so the concept/rule that the player further from the hole plays first/next is a matter of reaching that players ball first as you move down the line of the hole. Too often, two players sharing a cart stop at one ball at a time, and as mentioned earlier in the thread, each player goes through their exhaustive pre-shot routine. That's not 'Ready Golf', which means nothing more really than each player is READY to play their shot when it is their turn.

How do you do that in a 2-player cart? If there's not a really big gap between the two balls, the first player (doesn't matter which) at their ball gets out, gets their yardage, a club (or more) and starts to get ready for their shot. The 2nd player then drives the cart to their ball and does the same. The first player can then play their shot and walk (presumably forward) while the 2nd player plays, then everyone gets back in the cart and they move on. Making adjustments to that to accommodate assisting in finding an errant shot, CPO, and staying clear of another player's line of play, you can keep everyone moving. If you're not using the cart this way, you're group is probably playing too slow, regardless of the general or expected pace of play.

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On 7/8/2021 at 4:18 PM, HeathS16 said:

In theory a cart should be faster every time right!? 

On 7/8/2021 at 4:11 PM, chisag said:

 

... Yup! I generally find walkers to play faster. Go to their own ball and play ready golf. That said, I have been behind groups that all wander to one ball at a time, watch the shot, then all walk to the next ball instead of all going to their ball. I have said this many time but I think there are basically only 2 types of golfers. Those that are considerate of others and those that are not. 

LOL really? I have never seen that! Ever, what's the point of walking at that point? 

From observation, and lots of time spent walking lots of courses, a single walker will typically play about the same pace, sometimes faster, than a two-some sharing a cart. Four walkers will keep pace with a two-cart foursome, as long as they aren't doing the walk together to every ball thing.

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