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Driver spin numbers


LeftyHawk
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I'm looking to confirm my thinking here. Hitting higher on the face of the driver will give you a higher spin rate, is that correct? and the higher spin rate will shorten you yardage off the tee, is that also correct? Optimal for spin would be the middle of the face?

Chris

Far and Sure......

:ping-small:G410 SFT (10.5 degree)

:ping-small:; G400 SFT (9 degree)

 :ping-small:: G20 4W

:callaway-small:       GBB Epic 7W (Heavenwood)

:ping-small:: G410 4 thru GW

 :callaway-logo-1:   MD3 54*                                                         

:odyssey-small:    Dual Force Rossie ll

:bridgestone-small:   e12 Soft

 

 

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Through gear effect a higher on the face strike will create less spin and higher launch while a low face strike will create a higher spin low launch. 
 

Center contact is always preferred but whether higher or lower spin is needed for distance depends on the swing.  A 90mph swing needs more spin to stay in the air than a 110mph swing. 

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Driver:    PXG Gen2 0811x 10.5* set to small + with a VA Composites Nemesys 55s @ 44.75"

Fairway:  :srixon-small: F85 5 wood with a UST Elements Chrome 7F5 @ 41.5"

Irons: Testing the Titleist T200 irons 4-W2 with Project X LZ 5.5 shaft -1/2" and 1* Up

Wedge: Titleist SM7 56* with Project X LZ 5.0 shaft

Putter:  :scotty-cameron-1: Custom Futura X5 flow neck with a UST Frequency Filtered shaft -1" with a SS wristlock grip

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I would think that a well struck shot in the center of the club would be ideal.  That is what we shoot for when I got for fittings.  My numbers at my recent fitting were 93 mph swing speed, 2200 spin off the driver and 132 ball speed.  Also has to do also with the launch angle, the loft of the club head and the shaft.  Am 75 years old and we were able to get 230 with the new TSi3 with a Fujikura Tour Speeder Pro 64 S shaft, using a Prov1.  Trackman was used in the shop and the was in line with my previous fitting and Titleist driver at the range using Trackman.  You want low spin rate with the driver and height to create more distance.   With respect.  Both of my fitters (indoor and range) are Titleist certified fitters and have been at it 25+ years.  

 

 

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16 minutes ago, ChuckZ said:

You want low spin rate with the driver and height to create more distance. 

This isn’t entirely 100%. You want the correct spin and height for your swing speed to get the most distance you can achieve.  Taylormade’s 17* launch 1700 spin with the sldr was great for the high swing speed guy but was almost worthless for the slower speed guys. 

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What is in my Bag Boy Revolver

Driver:    PXG Gen2 0811x 10.5* set to small + with a VA Composites Nemesys 55s @ 44.75"

Fairway:  :srixon-small: F85 5 wood with a UST Elements Chrome 7F5 @ 41.5"

Irons: Testing the Titleist T200 irons 4-W2 with Project X LZ 5.5 shaft -1/2" and 1* Up

Wedge: Titleist SM7 56* with Project X LZ 5.0 shaft

Putter:  :scotty-cameron-1: Custom Futura X5 flow neck with a UST Frequency Filtered shaft -1" with a SS wristlock grip

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I'm in agreement with most of the posting here.  What I concluded it that each individual has a swing that can be optimizes by considering swing speed, spin, launch angle and smash factor.  Fitters look at all this information and select heads, shafts and setup (driver settings) that provides the best results for you.

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Ping G410 SFT 10.5*

Callaway Apex 2019 Combo irons 5-PW

Cleveland RX4 56, 50 

Maverick 3 Hybrid 

Epic 4 Hybrid 

Scotty Newport 2 Notchback

Bridgestone RX and Snell MTB-x (thanks to Mygolfspy)

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While higher on the club face is not optimal it's no where near the spin monster that low on the club face brings - you can generally get away with hitting driver high on the clubface because of gear effect - it may not feel great but it will get out there okay.  Not so low on the club face.

Taylor Made Sim2  10.5 (Opened 1 click) Ventus Blue 5  R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 6-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

Edison Wedges 54 and 59 KBS Tour Graphite 80's

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Tour Exotics 3 wood is in the bag because we are allowed 14 clubs.  It's a great club for pulling balls out of the water or from bushes - you never want to put your hand into anything in Florida unless you are absolutely certain that it's safe.  There are rare wind conditions when I might hit it off the tee on a few holes that I play.  

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There is both evidence (actual measured experiments) and analysis saying that higher on the face will give more distance -- until you get so high that you are losing COR from the face flex.

  • Because of vertical gear effect, higher on the face subtracts some from the backspin, so lower backspin.
  • Because of face roll (vertical curvature of the clubface of a driver), higher on the clubface gives higher launch.

I have done quite a bit of work quantifying this. You can see the short form of both the experiments (not mine, but published) and my mathematical model which agrees with the experiments at <https://tutelman.com/golf/ballflight/gearEffect2.php#validation>. On later pages of my article, I cover how face roll figures in. Turns out the optimum face roll makes the distance fall off less than a flat face would, as impact gets farther from the sweet spot. BTW, the sweet spot is not the center of the face; it is higher than that to get higher launch and lower spin.

I agree with blackngold_blood that this assumes a driver fit roughly to the golfer's clubhead speed and angle of attack. If mismatched, reduced spin could lose distance for you. I have a case study on that at <https://tutelman.com/golf/clubs/centerOfGravity3.php>.

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When I'm fitting for a driver, I prefer to see a strike in the "sweet spot"! But the head and shaft determine the spin along with your speed and accuracy to hit the sweet spot. Quit worrying about the numbers! Unless you're on a tour, just forget it! You can't control spin. Just try to hit the ball in the center of the head and hope it goes straight and long. Get fit outside and throw the monitors in the trash!

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Ping G410 5 Fairway Wood Mitsubishi Tensi Orange R Flex

Ping G410 4-5-6 Hybrids Mitsubishi Tensi Blue R Flex

Ping i500 Irons 5-U w/Recoil SmacWrap F3 Flex (power-spec lofts)

Ping 3.0 Eye2 Glide Wedges 54°-58° w/Recoil SmacWrap F3 Flex

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On 6/12/2021 at 1:59 PM, LeftyHawk said:

I'm looking to confirm my thinking here. Hitting higher on the face of the driver will give you a higher spin rate, is that correct? and the higher spin rate will shorten you yardage off the tee, is that also correct? Optimal for spin would be the middle of the face?

Chris

With what @revkev said, High on face is Lower spin, and Lower of face is Higher spin. 

But either one could give you more distance depending on what you need.  If you only have 1000 rpm of backspin now, more would help keep the ball in the air, and if you have 3000rpm now, less would help the ball fly lower and roll out more giving you more distance.

Swing speed, launch angle and angle of attack all play big factors into what any individual would need for more distance. 

But in real general numbers, backspin in the 2000-2400rpm range with a corresponding launch of 17° to 13° is generally ideal. I.E, 2OOO rpm at 17° is likely a good pairing of numbers, while 2000 rpm at 13° might be too low of rpm for most people. 

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WITB:

Driver:   :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 12° - Accra TZ6 M4

FW Wood:    :cobra-small: F7 17.5° - Fujikura Pro

Utility:    :cobra-small: King Forged 20.5° Utility - Catalyst X

Irons:   image.png.cbfb2d938ea45d82004d9bdeb23cf643.pngD7 Forged GW-5i - Recoils

Wedges:   :callaway-small:  Mac Daddy Forged 52° , 56°

Putter:   :taylormade-small: MySpider X

Cart: image.png.5aa5e9b8c0d6e08a2b12be76a06a07ca.pngOnewheel XR+

 

 

 

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Yeah, if you're gonna miss, high/toe is (generally) the best spot to miss. You can get these high-launch, low-spin knuckleballs that will just roll forever. This assumes, of course, that on center strikes you've got your launch and spin optimized already. If a center strike is giving you 1500-2000 spin, then a high/toe is gonna dive on you because it doesn't have enough spin to stay in the air. This happens to me sometimes when I'm doing ball testing. If I hit a ProV1x a little low on the face, I can easily get 3500 rpm of spin. If I hit, say, an OnCore Vero X1 high/toe, that ball is going anywhere because it'll have all of 1200 spin. Neither is ideal...

It's also worth mentioning that each OEM is slightly different in how they've engineered their driver to perform on mis-hits. For my swing, Taylormade drivers are far more forgiving on low/heel strikes than Callaway, but Callaway gives me way better numbers on high/toe than TM.

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Driver: :titelist-small: TSi3 with Tensei AV Raw White 65S
4-wood: :callaway-small: Mavrik Subzero (16.5*) with Aldila Rogue White 130 MSI X
2i: :srixon-small: ZX with SteelFiber i95cw Stiff
Wet/Soft: 3i-PW
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On 6/13/2021 at 4:13 PM, HDTVMAN said:

When I'm fitting for a driver, I prefer to see a strike in the "sweet spot"! But the head and shaft determine the spin along with your speed and accuracy to hit the sweet spot. Quit worrying about the numbers! Unless you're on a tour, just forget it! You can't control spin. Just try to hit the ball in the center of the head and hope it goes straight and long. Get fit outside and throw the monitors in the trash!

I have to say I totally agree with you on this.

Far and Sure......

:ping-small:G410 SFT (10.5 degree)

:ping-small:; G400 SFT (9 degree)

 :ping-small:: G20 4W

:callaway-small:       GBB Epic 7W (Heavenwood)

:ping-small:: G410 4 thru GW

 :callaway-logo-1:   MD3 54*                                                         

:odyssey-small:    Dual Force Rossie ll

:bridgestone-small:   e12 Soft

 

 

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On 6/13/2021 at 3:13 PM, HDTVMAN said:

When I'm fitting for a driver, I prefer to see a strike in the "sweet spot"! But the head and shaft determine the spin along with your speed and accuracy to hit the sweet spot. Quit worrying about the numbers! Unless you're on a tour, just forget it! You can't control spin. Just try to hit the ball in the center of the head and hope it goes straight and long. Get fit outside and throw the monitors in the trash!

One may not “control” spin, but one can certainly affect it. Just take an adjustable driver and hit some balls at the neutral loft. Then lower the loft a degree. Then lower it once more. Spin will generally decrease. Loft has the greatest affect on spin that isn’t tied to how the ball is struck (ascending/descending). Then go back to neutral loft and raise the loft a couple times. Spin will generally increase. Next would be to have a positive AOA vs a negative one, etc. Spin can be managed/affected for sure, and hitting outside on a TracMan or GC Quad is the best way to see those changes: visual flight of the ball, visuals of data changes…

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Hybrid: :callaway-small: X2 Hot Pro, 20*, Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 105X

Irons: :honma:TR20 Tour P 4-10, :Nippon: Modus 130 stiff, +1”

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