2021 Most Wanted - Player's Irons

[GolfSpy_APH]

For those who may have missed it on the main site here is the link to the Most Wanted Player's Irons
-https://mygolfspy.com/2021-most-wanted-players-iron/

I will say I thought there were a few good surprises in there and of course a great recap of many of the irons. A really interesting section of the market to follow as it changes and becomes more forgiving yet still providing incredible feel. 

[Kansas King]

Overall, the results weren't surprising. The top three irons happened to have some of the lowest COGs in players irons today probably helping with their feel significantly. I was kind of hoping to see the Titleist T100 in this test as it really seems to fit the definition of a players iron but oh well. I'm sure there are still a few players out there that are willing to give up MOI and forgiveness to have more mass directly behind the ball but I think those days are largely over. There are few reasons to not maximize the forgiveness of an iron within the constraints of the size parameters. I expect more pros will be moving to cavity back irons if they haven't already. I also expect to see more tungsten used in players irons going forward. Titleist figured this out with the AP2s a while back and the others have followed or led (I really don't know who was putting tungsten in players irons first). Tungsten in irons isn't new but the fact that companies are still making compact heads without it is surprising. Even the Titleist 620 CBs have some tungsten in the long irons to help. I've said this before but if you are playing smaller heads that don't have tungsten, you are leaving forgiveness on the table. There is not any metal that is denser that can be readily used in golf clubs. I honestly think that by the end of the decade there will be few pure forgings left on the market. 

[juspoole]

After hitting the Callaway Apex Pro in a demo day, the pros and cons echo my thoughts exactly after hitting them.  However, I put a bit more weight on feel of an iron and like a mix of accuracy and feel.  Thus I did notice that length, spin and dispersion were all good, but the feel was non existent.  I think I could get over it if the results were that much better than anything else I hit, but I've not had a chance to test the other irons just yet.  

[hartrick11]

The feel was not for me when I tried them, but I can see how the Apex Pro would rank that high in performance & forgiveness with all the tungsten they're using. Impressive engineering.

What I can't quite figure out is P7MC coming in at 2nd in forgiveness??? 

[Golfspy_CG2]

8 hours ago, Kansas King said:

Overall, the results weren't surprising. The top three irons happened to have some of the lowest COGs in players irons today probably helping with their feel significantly. I was kind of hoping to see the Titleist T100 in this test as it really seems to fit the definition of a players iron but oh well. I'm sure there are still a few players out there that are willing to give up MOI and forgiveness to have more mass directly behind the ball but I think those days are largely over. There are few reasons to not maximize the forgiveness of an iron within the constraints of the size parameters. I expect more pros will be moving to cavity back irons if they haven't already. I also expect to see more tungsten used in players irons going forward. Titleist figured this out with the AP2s a while back and the others have followed or led (I really don't know who was putting tungsten in players irons first). Tungsten in irons isn't new but the fact that companies are still making compact heads without it is surprising. Even the Titleist 620 CBs have some tungsten in the long irons to help. I've said this before but if you are playing smaller heads that don't have tungsten, you are leaving forgiveness on the table. There is not any metal that is denser that can be readily used in golf clubs. I honestly think that by the end of the decade there will be few pure forgings left on the market. 

The current T100 will be out of cycle in the next month or so. That’s why they weren’t included and obviously the new model wasn’t available when the testing was done. 

[chisag]

... This one is a real head scratcher. I have always thought these Most Wanted area great starting point as all golfers are different. But I can't imagine any golfer at any level that would find the MB like 921 Tours more forgiving than the King Tour cavity back irons. A little longer blade length with ample perimeter weighting compared to a shorter blade length with zero perimeter weighting. More accurate? Sure I can see that. More strokes gained? I can see that too. But 921 Tours ranked 4th and King Tours ranked 11th seems more than highly unlikely. 

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, chisag said:

... This one is a real head scratcher. I have always thought these Most Wanted area great starting point as all golfers are different. But I can't imagine any golfer at any level that would find the MB like 921 Tours more forgiving than the King Tour cavity back irons. A little longer blade length with ample perimeter weighting compared to a shorter blade length with zero perimeter weighting. More accurate? Sure I can see that. More strokes gained? I can see that too. But 921 Tours ranked 4th and King Tours ranked 11th seems more than highly unlikely. 

The question that really needs to be answered is what is forgiveness for these tests.   Is is more accurate in that the dispersion pattern was the best.  It probably isn't what most people think which is how does it perform on mishits.  

[chisag]

18 minutes ago, cnosil said:

The question that really needs to be answered is what is forgiveness for these tests.   Is is more accurate in that the dispersion pattern was the best.  It probably isn't what most people think which is how does it perform on mishits.  

 

... Thanks, and that would make more sense of course but then it would be almost an irrelevant stat that is simply based on how good each individual swing is in the data. If I hit 10 balls with my Cobra's and 10 balls with my Srixon MB's, since I am not a robot the results could be tighter dispersion with either depending on each individual swing, which would have very little to do with which head I was using. And of course if you are standing right next to me and hitting the same two irons your results could be the opposite of mine, similar to mine or somewhere in between. I have a fondness for the King Tours because of their forgiveness and having hit the 921 Tours that are much smaller and much less forgiving of mishits my choice for forgiveness would be very easy. If I took a bad swing with the Cobra's and hit several off line shots but managed to have better swings with the Mizuno's, the heads would have little to do with the corresponding data. I guess that brings me back to my original statement that I love these MGS tests as a great starting point and then we need just need to figure out how the data may or may not apply to us. 

[fixyurdivot]

I would have put the Z-Forged in the Players Iron category... the ZX7 no so much.  It seems to me the lines between categories is getting very blurred.  I guess if one includes "Conventional" (aka postage stamp on a stick) it makes more sense... but who plays those anymore?

[cnosil]

19 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

I would have put the Z-Forged in the Players Iron category... the ZX7 no so much.  It seems to me the lines between categories is getting very blurred.  I guess if one includes "Conventional" (aka postage stamp on a stick) it makes more sense... but who plays those anymore?

MGS doesn't really test blades like the Z-Forged and the ZX7 are generally considered a players iron.  Yes,  the categories are very blurred; for example the ZX4 will be in SGI.  

[GregGarner]

I think what I find most interesting, and I suppose it's on-brand for the category, is that it seems the longest irons (distance-wise) also finished last in strokes-gained. I'm not sure what to make of that, other than I was very surprised to see my gamers (which I love) so low on the list with negative strokes-gained in every category. I suppose that's why it's so important to get fit!

[Hook DeLoft]

On 6/24/2021 at 6:39 PM, chisag said:

 

... Thanks, and that would make more sense of course but then it would be almost an irrelevant stat that is simply based on how good each individual swing is in the data. If I hit 10 balls with my Cobra's and 10 balls with my Srixon MB's, since I am not a robot the results could be tighter dispersion with either depending on each individual swing, which would have very little to do with which head I was using. And of course if you are standing right next to me and hitting the same two irons your results could be the opposite of mine, similar to mine or somewhere in between. I have a fondness for the King Tours because of their forgiveness and having hit the 921 Tours that are much smaller and much less forgiving of mishits my choice for forgiveness would be very easy. If I took a bad swing with the Cobra's and hit several off line shots but managed to have better swings with the Mizuno's, the heads would have little to do with the corresponding data. I guess that brings me back to my original statement that I love these MGS tests as a great starting point and then we need just need to figure out how the data may or may not apply to us. 

I agree that these tests are only a starting point.  But they sure are fun to read!  The variability of swings will affect all the stats, not just forgiveness.  However, the more swings, the better the data.  Basically, the more repetitions, the less chance is a factor.  If a player swung two clubs 10 times each, the results might not tell you a lot about differences.  If the player swings each club a thousand times, then the results will better reflect the differences in the clubs.  If you had 1000 players hitting 1000 shots each, you would really have good data.  Ultimately, I think the best way to test the forgiveness of a club on bad strikes is to do it with a swing robot.  Then you could measure performance on hits on different spots of a grid on the face and compare.  I'm guessing swing robots are very, very expensive.  I only know of the USGA and club manufacturers having them, though there may be others.  And we haven't even begun to address the differences from different shafts, grips, swing weight, etc.