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2000 Prov1 vs 2020 Prov1


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18 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I get what you are saying,  but regardless of how good or bad a golfer is,  some people like to learn and understand the details of clubs, balls, and other equipment.  Others are happy just hitting whatever.  MGS is basically about trying to dig into those details and identifying differences and people agree and disagree with the findings.  I personally enjoyed the educational aspect of what Tony posted; will it sway me in any direction or improve my handicap? Simple answer is no.  

clearly you stopped at the first sentence.

I work in higher ed and have for 20+ years; I have nothing against educating yourself or learning about things. 

Furthermore I could care less if a 30 handicapper plays 90 dollar golf balls. Their game, their choice. 
My entire point was there is a level of skill where the ball matters and where the ball doesn't; maybe I missed that in Tony's soliloquy.... 

I got something to say then I'm gonna say it. 

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1 hour ago, StrokerAce said:

a lot of words about a golf ball.

there's got to be a point where the ball - for the most part - is the least important part of a golfers bag.
 

 

On the other hand, the golf ball is the only piece of equipment you use for every shot - making it a pretty important factor. If you are looking at variables however, then nothing is more variable than human input - even really good ball strikers will likely never repeat a shot with the same level of accuracy as another.

If you're looking at noticeable performance differences, you'd better be certain that the weakest link in the chain isn't the person swinging the club. And no ball in the world is going to help with a lack of ability - but it can make the differene in the way you perceive how it feels - even with a simple 3ft putt. But alas, 3ft putts are not a big selling point of most golf balls.

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13 minutes ago, jaskanski said:

On the other hand, the golf ball is the only piece of equipment you use for every shot - making it a pretty important factor. If you are looking at variables however, then nothing is more variable than human input - even really good ball strikers will likely never repeat a shot with the same level of accuracy as another.

If you're looking at noticeable performance differences, you'd better be certain that the weakest link in the chain isn't the person swinging the club. And no ball in the world is going to help with a lack of ability - but it can make the differene in the way you perceive how it feels - even with a simple 3ft putt. But alas, 3ft putts are not a big selling point of most golf balls.

not sure what your point is... that because you paid a lot of money for a golf ball then it gives you a psychological advantage? because you paid a lot for it then it 'feels' better? 

in some cases the opposite is true - when you lose a few 4 dollar golf balls that can really piss you off and mess with your head.

wish someone would do a blind test and give a 14+ handicap player 5 different balls ranging in price and quality and ask them to pick the "best" one.... without knowing anything about them. 

I got something to say then I'm gonna say it. 

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1 hour ago, StrokerAce said:

clearly you stopped at the first sentence.

I work in higher ed and have for 20+ years; I have nothing against educating yourself or learning about things. 

Furthermore I could care less if a 30 handicapper plays 90 dollar golf balls. Their game, their choice. 
My entire point was there is a level of skill where the ball matters and where the ball doesn't; maybe I missed that in Tony's soliloquy.... 

didn’t stop at the first sentence.   You disagree with the fact that the ball matters; which is fine and in not so many words said information was a waste,   Essentially the point of Tony’s comments were related to the original post that said the 2000 and 2019 balls were basically the same based on a launch monitor test; which doesn’t measure the correct things to make that statement.  Neither of the posts were about who should care; which is what your posts are discussing. 

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Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
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Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
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24 minutes ago, jaskanski said:

On the other hand, the golf ball is the only piece of equipment you use for every shot - making it a pretty important factor. If you are looking at variables however, then nothing is more variable than human input - even really good ball strikers will likely never repeat a shot with the same level of accuracy as another.

If you're looking at noticeable performance differences, you'd better be certain that the weakest link in the chain isn't the person swinging the club. And no ball in the world is going to help with a lack of ability - but it can make the differene in the way you perceive how it feels - even with a simple 3ft putt. But alas, 3ft putts are not a big selling point of most golf balls.

Exactly. Anyone looking to get better there needs to be consistency and the ball is the on Eli eve of equipment that’s is used on every shot. 
 

#finditcutit and the mgs ball lab shows that not all balls are equal. The ball study showed how bad a shot result can be with balls that have inconsistency. 
 

those that know know  

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

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What I'm saying is that there are plenty of 'premium' golf balls out there that don't get a second look from me because they don't feel right off the putter. Once it fails this basic go/no go test - why bother evaluating it any further? Most touring pros will tell you the same thing - if it feels OK then it's a good start.

Most high index players could certainly benefit from a better feeling ball around the greens that are far from premium priced but feel just as good. If you like to putt with a rock just because you think it can eek out a few extra yards from your duffed tee shot, then knock yourself out. For the majority of players (who as we've established are around the the index as per your graphic) too much emphasis is placed on distance which is only achieveable (compared to another ball regardless of dimples or construction) if it is struck precisely enough to be worth counting as 'significant'. That would be less than justifiable to be worth considering as a factor in selecting a golf ball.

But a simple 'putt' test? Worth every penny of whatever price point you choose. Sound resonable?

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24 minutes ago, cnosil said:

didn’t stop at the first sentence.   You disagree with the fact that the ball matters; which is fine and in not so many words said information was a waste,   Essentially the point of Tony’s comments were related to the original post that said the 2000 and 2019 balls were basically the same based on a launch monitor test; which doesn’t measure the correct things to make that statement.  Neither of the posts were about who should care; which is what your posts are discussing. 

wrong again. *read*what*I*wrote*

at no point did I disagree with the fact that the ball matters - I said that there is a point where it shouldn't matter as much as everything else. the entire reason I included the handicap charts. I even said that it DOES matter for lower handicaps.

don't put words in my mouth - I never said information was a waste.

I got something to say then I'm gonna say it. 

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18 minutes ago, jaskanski said:

What I'm saying is that there are plenty of 'premium' golf balls out there that don't get a second look from me because they don't feel right off the putter. Once it fails this basic go/no go test - why bother evaluating it any further? Most touring pros will tell you the same thing - if it feels OK then it's a good start.

Most high index players could certainly benefit from a better feeling ball around the greens that are far from premium priced but feel just as good. If you like to putt with a rock just because you think it can eek out a few extra yards from your duffed tee shot, then knock yourself out. For the majority of players (who as we've established are around the the index as per your graphic) too much emphasis is placed on distance which is only achieveable (compared to another ball regardless of dimples or construction) if it is struck precisely enough to be worth counting as 'significant'. That would be less than justifiable to be worth considering as a factor in selecting a golf ball.

But a simple 'putt' test? Worth every penny of whatever price point you choose. Sound resonable?

sure. 

just like people who like to run like to wear Asics vs Nike vs Brooks, etc...

use what feels good to you.... even if "find it cut it" (gasp!) says it's not a "good" ball.

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I got something to say then I'm gonna say it. 

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4 minutes ago, StrokerAce said:

wrong again. *read*what*I*wrote*

at no point did I disagree with the fact that the ball matters - I said that there is a point where it shouldn't matter as much as everything else. the entire reason I included the handicap charts. I even said that it DOES matter for lower handicaps.

don't put words in my mouth - I never said information was a waste.

I read what you wrote; Perhaps it is what appears to be sarcasm that is creating my confusion.  Not trying to put words in you mouth, just expressing my understanding/misunderstanding of what you are saying.  That is how discussions work and perhaps you past criticisms of MGS approaches have caused me to read more into your statements than you intended 

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Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
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38 minutes ago, StrokerAce said:

not sure what your point is... that because you paid a lot of money for a golf ball then it gives you a psychological advantage? because you paid a lot for it then it 'feels' better? 

in some cases the opposite is true - when you lose a few 4 dollar golf balls that can really piss you off and mess with your head.

wish someone would do a blind test and give a 14+ handicap player 5 different balls ranging in price and quality and ask them to pick the "best" one.... without knowing anything about them. 

 

1 hour ago, StrokerAce said:

clearly you stopped at the first sentence.

I work in higher ed and have for 20+ years; I have nothing against educating yourself or learning about things. 

Furthermore I could care less if a 30 handicapper plays 90 dollar golf balls. Their game, their choice. 
My entire point was there is a level of skill where the ball matters and where the ball doesn't; maybe I missed that in Tony's soliloquy.... 

what’s been your issue lately? Seems like you hate everything MGS and the people associated with it?

 

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5 minutes ago, jlukes said:

 

what’s been your issue lately? Seems like you hate everything MGS and the people associated with it?

 

wait - I'm not sure if I'm able to answer that in this thread since it isn't related to the topic and that suddenly appears to be verboten.

 

ah screw it... 

not sure what you mean by 'lately'.
not sure why you think I hate everything MGS.
not sure why you think I hate people associated with MGS.

would be nice if you had some examples.

anyway - I think it is fair to be critical of what MGS presents. from my perception that is a big, huge no-no. not sure why; they're kind of built on the idea of being critical of what OEMs tell golfers. 

Yep - I questioned that fact that soft=slow on Twitter and got blocked. Yep I disagreed with the premise and that rubbed some people the wrong way.

if that is "hate" then I suppose you're right. 

but if not, then back off.

I got something to say then I'm gonna say it. 

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Personally, I'd like to see a breakdown of what percentage of factors goes into purchasing a golf ball.

Most likely it's (from high to low):

1. Branding

2. Price point

3. Performance (?)

4. Feel

For my money, it should be the reverse order. What say you folks?

 

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Just now, jaskanski said:

Personally, I'd like to see a breakdown of what percentage of factors goes into purchasing a golf ball.

Most likely it's (from high to low):

1. Branding

2. Price point

3. Performance (?)

4. Feel

For my money, it should be the reverse order. What say you folks?

 

I definitely wouldn't put feel at the top of the list.  Feel typically means soft, and as Tony routinely preaches if you're using a ball that is "soft" it's also low compression and you're giving up some (possibly significant) yards.  

Driver:  :honma:TR20 460, Vizard 60g Stiff

FW:  :tour-edge: CBX 119 3w, 15,  Project X Evenflow Blue 65g Stiff

Hybrids: :taylormade-small: SIM DHY 3 & 4H, Diamana Limited Hybrid 75g Stiff

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13 minutes ago, jaskanski said:

Personally, I'd like to see a breakdown of what percentage of factors goes into purchasing a golf ball.

Most likely it's (from high to low):

1. Branding

2. Price point

3. Performance (?)

4. Feel

For my money, it should be the reverse order. What say you folks?

 

For me: Performance, price, branding, feel.  I just want a ball that performs well, that is at a price I am willing to pay,  don’t care who makes it, and I don’t personally get “feel”.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  :seemore-small: mFGP2

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, Bellum Winmore 787

 

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3 minutes ago, cnosil said:

For me: Performance, price, branding, feel.  I just want a ball that performs well, that is at a price I am willing to pay,  don’t care who makes it, and I don’t personally get “feel”.  

Yes - but you can tell the diiference in firmness between one ball and another right? Isn't that 'feel'?

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Just now, jaskanski said:

Yes - but you can tell the diiference in firmness between one ball and another right? Isn't that 'feel'?

I like a firm feeling ball. But if the performance was better for a soft feeling ball I would have no problem switching. There are golfers who won't play something no matter the performance if it doesn't feel right, however most are not this way. 

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21 minutes ago, jaskanski said:

Personally, I'd like to see a breakdown of what percentage of factors goes into purchasing a golf ball.

Most likely it's (from high to low):

1. Branding

2. Price point

3. Performance (?)

4. Feel

For my money, it should be the reverse order. What say you folks?

 

I maybe wrong but I think they put out a home page article on this recently 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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22 minutes ago, jaskanski said:

Yes - but you can tell the diiference in firmness between one ball and another right? Isn't that 'feel'?

I really struggle with that. I know it is really tied to sound, but I don’t really detect a lot of difference between balls.  Hard/soft all feel about the same which is why I put it on the bottom. 

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  :seemore-small: mFGP2

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, Bellum Winmore 787

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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