Wedge Testing and Thoughts

[goaliewales14]

Hey fellow Spies!!  

Yesterday a buddy wanted some initial thoughts on some wedges, other than Vokey and Callaway, while I at the PGA SS, so I thought I'd share my findings!  I did a 50 yard pitch shot and an 80 yard shot.  All of the wedges were 56 degrees.  I tested the following wedges using my TP5 golf balls:

• Mizuno ES21
• Taylormade Milled Grind 2
• Ping Forged
• Ping Glide 3.0

Here's each of the averages!

 

 

Thoughts:

• 50 Yard Test
  • All of the spin rates and everything were very close
  • Mizuno ES won't win any beauty contest by any means looking at the back of the club
    • Mizuno was actually my favorite to hit
      • The feel was great
      • The turf interactions was amazing
  • Ping Glide had a very noticeable click
  • Taylormade felt the softest in this test
• 80 Yard Test
  • Taylormade was EXTREMELY inconsistent
    • I would hit what I thought would be the same swing and would get very different spin rates and distances
      • Took FOREVER to get a good sample size around 80 yards
  • Ping Forged has a very shape leading edge
    • I noticed that if I hit just a tiny bit behind the ball, it would dig very easily
  • Mizuno was amazing again
    • Favorite wedge to hit by far
  • Ping Glide was solid
    • Felt good, but the click was still there

Final:

If you are looking for a new wedge, definitely look at Mizuno!  It was extremely easy to hit, great spin numbers, and once you set up, you can't see how big the back really is on it.  I did go mess around with the 60 degree wedge because I loved the 56 so much, but this is where I noticed the one major downside.  This wedge for me would definitely need some grind work done on it.  You do not have the ability to open the face due to a wider sole.  As soon as you do, the leading edge comes up even on the 6 degree bounce wedge.  The wedge is also priced at $200, so be prepared to pay.

I was very shocked about Taylormade.  I asked a few of the fitters there and they said they have been experiencing the same thing with that wedge.  On longer shots, the distance control just isn't there.  I'm not sure if it has something to do with the raw face or not, but that is very concerning to me.  

If I were to rank the wedges it would be:

1. Mizuno
2. Ping Glide
3. Ping Forged
4. Taylormade (Would NOT buy)

Let me know if you guys agree/disagree!

[fozcycle]

Just saw a video of the Dune Wedge, a hybrid wedge.  The results are amazing, if you are pitching from just off the green. I wonder what happens when you are 40 yards away or in the bunker…..hmmmm

https://golfknack.com/a/secure/page/o4zWITGbi4pb1BGYkp09?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Dune Hybrid Wedge (early-bird access) (YhRgtz)&_kx=1R-aDKlPTxlL26IxAS9EJtJj0WOdchuQIJSu9arSwUg%3D.QiQ9y5

 

what do y’all think?

 

I’m a Zipcore fan myself.

 

[null]

Great stuff, @goaliewales14

Dont underestimate how much bounce, sole width, and camber can influence your strike. Having sole characteristics that don’t fit your swing can really lead to inconsistent strikes

[goaliewales14]

6 hours ago, fozcycle said:

Just saw a video of the Dune Wedge, a hybrid wedge.  The results are amazing, if you are pitching from just off the green. I wonder what happens when you are 40 yards away or in the bunker…..hmmmm

https://golfknack.com/a/secure/page/o4zWITGbi4pb1BGYkp09?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Dune Hybrid Wedge (early-bird access) (YhRgtz)&_kx=1R-aDKlPTxlL26IxAS9EJtJj0WOdchuQIJSu9arSwUg%3D.QiQ9y5

 

what do y’all think?

 

I’m a Zipcore fan myself.

 

 

There's definitely a market for this type of club!  Cleveland has an extremely similar one with their "Smart Sole."  Basically just make a standard putting stroke and away you go!  Everything would be square face shot.

 

[dlow206]

6 minutes ago, goaliewales14 said:

 

There's definitely a market for this type of club!  Cleveland has an extremely similar one with their "Smart Sole."  Basically just make a standard putting stroke and away you go!  Everything would be square face shot.

 

I am probably the most incompetent bunker of all time. I got out of the bunker 3/3 with the Smart Sole S wedge with decent results yesterday

[ChuckZ]

I do like my Vokey wedge.  After meeting Bob Vokey and being fitted by him personally.  Has paid off for me in the sand and around the greens.  

[Jshaver]

Three things:

 

1.  What is the peak height number?  Doesn’t make sense in feet or yards for 56 degree wedges. 
 

2.  Not surprised at all about Mizuno feel.  All Mizuno steel is soft whether in irons or putters and forged will always feel better than cast.  
 

3.  If you ever get a chance, give Sub 70 forged wedges a shot.   Super soft, made to your personal specs, feel like butter, fly high, land soft, and incredible value. 

[HDTVMAN]

Had Callaway PM Grind and when I upgraded with Ping equipment, bought the Glide 3.0 Eye2 grind. No complaints.

[goaliewales14]

19 minutes ago, Jshaver said:

Three things:

 

1.  What is the peak height number?  Doesn’t make sense in feet or yards for 56 degree wedges. 
 

2.  Not surprised at all about Mizuno feel.  All Mizuno steel is soft whether in irons or putters and forged will always feel better than cast.  
 

3.  If you ever get a chance, give Sub 70 forged wedges a shot.   Super soft, made to your personal specs, feel like butter, fly high, land soft, and incredible value. 

The peak height is in yards.  Those are actually very standard numbers for me and a 56 degree wedge.  Below is some data from Trackman regarding PGA Tour averages from 2019.  My driver club head speed is actually above the tour average at 117 mph.  I just went through a driver fitting last week, so you can use those numbers as a gage for my numbers.  I also put in the LPGA averages as well.

[goaliewales14]

9 minutes ago, HDTVMAN said:

Had Callaway PM Grind and when I upgraded with Ping equipment, bought the Glide 3.0 Eye2 grind. No complaints.

Ping Glides have always been super solid!  I love the extra coating on them for wet conditions!  I had some before I did the RTX 4 testing in 2019.  Now you can't rip the XLOW out of my bag.  It's gonna be a very sad day when those grooves go out.  

[Subdiver1]

goaliewales14,

I moved from Clevelands a couple of years ago now to Mizuno T-20s and I haven't looked back.  BUT, I really like the numbers on the Ping forged.  Especially the side spin #.  What strikes me funny is that you have 3-5x more side spin on the other wedges (from the Ping forged), but the dispersion is not all that much wider; granted travel distance on a 50 year shot doesn't leave much time to go off-line; would like to see the sidespin and off-line numbers for the 80 yard shots. 

All that said, I agree, I love my T-20s and it would be interesting to see those compared with your ES21s as well.

Thanks for the data.

Cheers

[vandyland]

Do you feel like you can get an accurate "feel" for turf interaction hitting of, albeit designed to feel like grass, artificial mats? I had a wedge fitting in a bay off a fiberbuilt mat and I found a club that I loved....until I got out on the course when it was wet/dewy or baked out. Basically, if conditions were perfect, my wedge felt perfect but often conditions are not perfect. So, for me, I don't believe I will ever buy another wedge that I haven't hit off of grass for this very reason. And we can talk about technique and how it is the indian and not the arrow but I have since found a wedge that was much better, for me, because I put several different wedges through their paces in real-life conditions. 

[goaliewales14]

42 minutes ago, Subdiver1 said:

goaliewales14,

I moved from Clevelands a couple of years ago now to Mizuno T-20s and I haven't looked back.  BUT, I really like the numbers on the Ping forged.  Especially the side spin #.  What strikes me funny is that you have 3-5x more side spin on the other wedges (from the Ping forged), but the dispersion is not all that much wider; granted travel distance on a 50 year shot doesn't leave much time to go off-line; would like to see the sidespin and off-line numbers for the 80 yard shots. 

All that said, I agree, I love my T-20s and it would be interesting to see those compared with your ES21s as well.

Thanks for the data.

Cheers

Sure thing!  The side spin and offline for my 80 yard shots are:

TM: 418L - 3.0L

Ping Glide: 326L - 2.3L

Ping Forged: 222L - 0.2L

Mizuno: 104R - 1.6R

I definitely didn't mind the Glide Forged at all!  I definitely wouldn't do it as my lob wedge but as a gap or sand wedge, it would be a very strong contender.  If I did the SW, I'd like to see if I could get some grind work on it to help with opening up the face just a bit.  I know Ping is AMAZING when it comes to customizations.  They just don't advertise it for some reason.

[goaliewales14]

6 minutes ago, vandyland said:

Do you feel like you can get an accurate "feel" for turf interaction hitting of, albeit designed to feel like grass, artificial mats? I had a wedge fitting in a bay off a fiberbuilt mat and I found a club that I loved....until I got out on the course when it was wet/dewy or baked out. Basically, if conditions were perfect, my wedge felt perfect but often conditions are not perfect. So, for me, I don't believe I will ever buy another wedge that I haven't hit off of grass for this very reason. And we can talk about technique and how it is the indian and not the arrow but I have since found a wedge that was much better, for me, because I put several different wedges through their paces in real-life conditions. 

I completely agree!  I would be very hard pressed to buy a wedge off of just an indoor session.  The main things for me with indoor sessions, when I'm actually looking at wedges, is how does the club feel, what do 3/4 - full shots do, and leading edge.  Some examples would be if I catch it a bit heavy, how much grab does it have, or if I open the face, what does that look like on a flat lie.  A lot of the courses I play have very tight areas around the greens and our bunkers are like concrete, so that is why I feel in love with my XLOW.  I like to think of this as round 1 to narrow down wedges to try outside.

Round 2 would be an outdoor demo day with the company, or something to try in a short game area of a range.

Final round would be a par 3 course that I go to a lot.  Their front 9 really allows me to hit all different shots to small greens.

[Kansas King]

I've been using the PM grind wedges since they came out and have yet to find a sole that offers the same level of versatility around the greens and is also good for fuller swings. Ping has some interesting stuff. I typically avoid some of the more normal dual grind soles to provide workability because you tend to lose a lot of forgiveness in the process when you narrow down the bottom of the sole and make big relief cuts. This is where the PM grind has been great as they were able to retain the sole width in a unique fashion while still being able to give the option of laying the blade wide open without the leading edge coming up too much.

I always recommend forgiving wedges like the Cleveland CBX line for wedges that aren't being used around the green or if you're needing help with the wedges. 

[Godawgs]

On 6/27/2021 at 10:56 PM, goaliewales14 said:

Hey fellow Spies!!  

Yesterday a buddy wanted some initial thoughts on some wedges, other than Vokey and Callaway, while I at the PGA SS, so I thought I'd share my findings!  I did a 50 yard pitch shot and an 80 yard shot.  All of the wedges were 56 degrees.  I tested the following wedges using my TP5 golf balls:

• Mizuno ES21
• Taylormade Milled Grind 2
• Ping Forged
• Ping Glide 3.0

Here's each of the averages!

 

 

Thoughts:

• 50 Yard Test
  • All of the spin rates and everything were very close
  • Mizuno ES won't win any beauty contest by any means looking at the back of the club
    • Mizuno was actually my favorite to hit
      • The feel was great
      • The turf interactions was amazing
  • Ping Glide had a very noticeable click
  • Taylormade felt the softest in this test
• 80 Yard Test
  • Taylormade was EXTREMELY inconsistent
    • I would hit what I thought would be the same swing and would get very different spin rates and distances
      • Took FOREVER to get a good sample size around 80 yards
  • Ping Forged has a very shape leading edge
    • I noticed that if I hit just a tiny bit behind the ball, it would dig very easily
  • Mizuno was amazing again
    • Favorite wedge to hit by far
  • Ping Glide was solid
    • Felt good, but the click was still there

Final:

If you are looking for a new wedge, definitely look at Mizuno!  It was extremely easy to hit, great spin numbers, and once you set up, you can't see how big the back really is on it.  I did go mess around with the 60 degree wedge because I loved the 56 so much, but this is where I noticed the one major downside.  This wedge for me would definitely need some grind work done on it.  You do not have the ability to open the face due to a wider sole.  As soon as you do, the leading edge comes up even on the 6 degree bounce wedge.  The wedge is also priced at $200, so be prepared to pay.

I was very shocked about Taylormade.  I asked a few of the fitters there and they said they have been experiencing the same thing with that wedge.  On longer shots, the distance control just isn't there.  I'm not sure if it has something to do with the raw face or not, but that is very concerning to me.  

If I were to rank the wedges it would be:

1. Mizuno
2. Ping Glide
3. Ping Forged
4. Taylormade (Would NOT buy)

Let me know if you guys agree/disagree!

I

[Godawgs]

1 minute ago, Godawgs said:

II got the Cleveland CBX2 wedges with a CBX 58 and really love them. Maybe give those a try

 

[thechrisgibbs]

Absolutely love the analysis here. I would say if you like the feel of the Mizuno ES21, you have to try out the Mizuno T20s. You can get the sole of the club down to a manageable bounce as it's more of a gamer's wedge imo. I've messed around with a few of them at Golftec and I can get them wide open and up in the air. You'd probably enjoy the profile more too. 

[goaliewales14]

1 hour ago, GolfSpy_TCG said:

Absolutely love the analysis here. I would say if you like the feel of the Mizuno ES21, you have to try out the Mizuno T20s. You can get the sole of the club down to a manageable bounce as it's more of a gamer's wedge imo. I've messed around with a few of them at Golftec and I can get them wide open and up in the air. You'd probably enjoy the profile more too. 

The buddy I was testing for has hit the T20s quite a bit before that's why I didn't include them, but for myself I definitely want to include them!  I've also heard really good things about the Cobra Snake Bites.  Unfortunately the PGA SS didn't have any demos yet.

[Donn lost in San Diego]

I love my Mizuno wedges.  S18, T5, T7, I have five of them from 50 deg to 60 deg, all are classic style, Grain Flow Forged.  Not the JPX stuff.  But I do use an old original Hogan 56 x 12 or 14 bounce Sure Out sand with the big heavy sole.  I will eventually use a Mizu for more accuracy but the Hogan is truly Sure Out as long as you swing thru the shot and trust the club to do its' thing.  I also use a chipper around the fringe instead of a wedge.  I have an old bronze Don Martin Up-n-In.  I don't worry about where the ball might go, it is always accurate directionally.  Stan Thompson also made one called Close Up.  I have one of those too but I like the grooveless bronze Martin.  Both guys were club creators in Palm Springs area years ago.  Thompson is known for his Ginty and Ginty 2 woods and irons.  Martin also made putters.   

[Donn lost in San Diego]

Hey FOZCYCLE.  How do you like your PXG 0211 driver?  I just ordered one, on the riptide 40 gram a flex.  (I'm a slug, 66 yrs, curved spine, can't move driver anywhere near as fast a 40 inch or shorter shaft, hence the A flex driver.)  

[fozcycle]

10 minutes ago, Donn lost in San Diego said:

Hey FOZCYCLE.  How do you like your PXG 0211 driver?  I just ordered one, on the riptide 40 gram a flex.  (I'm a slug, 66 yrs, curved spine, can't move driver anywhere near as fast a 40 inch or shorter shaft, hence the A flex driver.)  

I absolutely love the 0211 with Riptide CB shaft.  It is my most dependable club.  I am contemplating getting fit for the 0211 Fairways & Irons.

[Subdiver1]

On 6/29/2021 at 1:23 PM, goaliewales14 said:

Sure thing!  The side spin and offline for my 80 yard shots are:

TM: 418L - 3.0L

Ping Glide: 326L - 2.3L

Ping Forged: 222L - 0.2L

Mizuno: 104R - 1.6R

I definitely didn't mind the Glide Forged at all!  I definitely wouldn't do it as my lob wedge but as a gap or sand wedge, it would be a very strong contender.  If I did the SW, I'd like to see if I could get some grind work on it to help with opening up the face just a bit.  I know Ping is AMAZING when it comes to customizations.  They just don't advertise it for some reason.

Hmmm, more side spin but less offline with the Ping Forged.  Interesting. 

I know I am typically left of my line with my T20s.  I need to hit the lottery and get me a Trackman!

Thanks for the data.