Shot Scope Users Group

[cksurfdude]

So after another just 9 hole round this afternoon, I think I'm switching back to Manual putting mode ... pretty much every hole was completely off, as far as positions of putts. It had all the correct number of putts on all the holes but *none* of the positions???!!!??? What I saw when I went into (desktop) edit was the putts & the pin were all on top of each other in -one- spot on the greens??!!??

Kinda bizarre and that's the first time I've seen this (which is post- latest as of this date firmware update).

[sellemental]

I've seen the flags and putts on top of each other several times also during editing recently, and I'm using the V3 watch, and I track putting manually all the time.  Not sure why, but it is what it is.  As many of us have mentioned many times through this thread, the GPS accuracy and putting data/ stats are somewhat limited.  Often nudge them around during editing, however, this on top of thing is pretty new.

[cksurfdude]

13 hours ago, sellemental said:

I've seen the flags and putts on top of each other several times also during editing recently

Huh also weird.

But - I discovered the snafu with my round - I'm an idiot

Moving putters and other clubs around the other day, I somehow inadvertantly inserted the "X1" tag that had been on a hybrid into my gamer putter...

Go figure...

Playing again this afternoon so will update if same problem recurs .. or not!

[JerryB]

On 5/27/2023 at 10:00 PM, sellemental said:

I've seen the flags and putts on top of each other several times also during editing recently, and I'm using the V3 watch, and I track putting manually all the time.  Not sure why, but it is what it is.  As many of us have mentioned many times through this thread, the GPS accuracy and putting data/ stats are somewhat limited.  Often nudge them around during editing, however, this on top of thing is pretty new.

I do manual putting as well and after my round yesterday I noticed that more than half of my greens had the putt right on top of each other while a few seemed more accurate.  Odd.

[BobBC78]

I'm planning to do manual putt mode for my next round and am hopeful that my putting stats will be more accurate (and require less editing) than has been the case in automatic. 

[tony@CIC]

Played 18 today and the X5 worked well. No issues with the menu reverting back to the clock face, scoring worked well also. I turned off the watch immediately after the game and when I plugged it back in it had 59% battery remaining. 

Wish my game worked as well as my X5. 

[nupezb]

Today, during my round of 18 holes, I encountered an issue indicated by the "!" symbol while playing the back 9. I promptly checked my score and made the necessary adjustment. However, after a few holes, the "!" symbol reappeared, leaving me uncertain whether I missed entering my score or if there is a potential issue with it. I will continue to monitor this situation closely.

Regarding the Pin Collect screen, I noticed on a few occasions that it didn't automatically appear while I was standing on the green. Once, I had to access it through the score card, and another time it took a while before it finally showed up. I intend to keep track of this issue as well.

During post-round editing, I observed that I had to remove several additional putts that were erroneously recorded. I'm unsure how this occurred. Additionally, I noticed that my putts were not accurately tracked on several holes (the 2 feet putts where showing). Despite using the auto putt feature and attempting to record putt distances on my scorecard, the back 9 I forgot to record my distance and this presented challenges on those holes. Shot Scope had incorrect yardage and flag locations, despite my efforts to stand over each hole and engage the pin collect function. It's unclear whether this discrepancy is due to firmware or GPS issues.

Overall I am happy with the latest firmware update.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MIgregb]

On 5/27/2023 at 6:53 PM, tony@CIC said:

...However, I did notice that after 18 holes - just shy of 4 hours I had 39% battery remaining. I'm ok with that given that I always charge it after 18. But do hope that they figure out the battery drain given they advertise it as a watch you can wear daily. 

My battery drain has been worse since the firmware update (a couple updates ago) that was supposed to improve battery life. It's now what you're experiencing, but that's a bit worse than before the update. 

[cnosil]

58 minutes ago, MIgregb said:

My battery drain has been worse since the firmware update (a couple updates ago) that was supposed to improve battery life. It's now what you're experiencing, but that's a bit worse than before the update. 

Maybe do a hard reset;   I found that doing that helped the battery life on my h4 or maybe it was just becuase I was using it more. 

[MIgregb]

1 minute ago, cnosil said:

Maybe do a hard reset;   I found that doing that helped the battery life on my h4 or maybe it was just becuase I was using it more. 

Someone suggested I do that, maybe you, after I talked about the battery drainage with the update. But there's been at least 2 additional firmware updates since then and I haven't done it. I'll give it a try. Thanks!

[tony@CIC]

Played 18 today  - no issues capturing data. Battery level was 54%. Operator error though, I tightened my band so a couple of times the watch reverted to "last shot", but easy enough to get back. This happened once before so I knew to loosen the band. 

[PhilM75072]

Pretty good results with the X5 this morning. Played a new course, which the watch found almost right away. One shot was missed and one shot added. The added shot was because the tee box we used was probably not mapped due to being hidden by overhanging trees. So the watch added a shot from the back tee box to where we teed off from. One putt was missed - use error on that one.

[JerryB]

I played a course I hadn't played since before I got the X5 and it was found within seconds at the start, so that's good.  Still takes longer to find my home course but thinking about it, my home course always takes longer than average to find.  

Feels like battery drain is worse the longer it is on.  When I can get in a quick nine during the week, roughly 70 minutes or so, the battery is still about 85%.  When we played 18 yesterday (just under five hours) the battery was at 12%.  Not much to add, just an observation. 

I don't think I had any issues with multiple putts within two feet and right on top of each other other than one which was user error.  The one thing that does bug me is also having to keep the watch band loose to keep my glove from accidentally unlocking the watch.

[golferguy2727]

I haven’t been playing due to plantar fasciitis (the only thing tiger and I will EVER have in common ). But played a singles match play round on Saturday and a casual round on Sunday. Because of the match I didn’t focus much on the watch - and the result was pretty bad - many times the watch was on a different hole, no putting option appeared on screen or scoring during those times -I use manual putting mode and had all the “lock” functions disabled. Post round edit was the worst I’ve ever had. Sunday - pretty much the same outcome and noticed again that the watch was on a different hole at least seven times. Also lost gps connection multiple times. Quite a few times the putting screen came up pre populated with two putts and no obvious way to decrement that. One hole had five putts recorded and I did not enter that - the genuine four putt was on the first hole . Very disappointing overall experience for me. Good news is basic club tracking was fine, but any new x5 features were nearly completely MIA. I will go back to V3 for comparison just in case it was some strange bias voodoo- but very much a let down in epic proportions. My Arccos sensors and LinkV2 are calling for a redo, me thinks…..

Edited June 7, 2023 by golferguy2727
Stupid typo

[tony@CIC]

1 minute ago, golferguy2727 said:

I haven’t been playing die to plantar fasciitis (the only thing tiger and I will EVER have in common ). But played a singles match play round on Saturday and a casual round on Sunday. Because of the match I didn’t focus much on the watch - and the result was pretty bad - many times the watch was on a different hole, no putting option appeared on screen or scoring during those times -I use manual putting mode and had all the “lock” functions disabled. Pat round edit was the worst I’ve ever had. Sunday - pretty much the same outcome and noticed again that the watch was on a different hole at least seven times. Also lost gps connection multiple times. Quite a few times the putting screen came up pre populated with two putts and no obvious way to decrement that. One hole had five putts recorded and I did not enter that - the genuine four putt was on the first hole . Very disappointing overall experience for me. Good news is basic club tracking was fine, but any new x5 features were nearly completely MIA. I will go back to V3 for comparison just in case it was some strange bias voodoo- but very much a let down in epic proportions. My Arccos a sensors and LinkV2 are calling for a redo, me thinks…..

Sorry to hear you've had such a bad experience. Is it a V3 vs. X5? The V3 is fairly bullet proof. The X5 has had some issues and if you haven't done a download of the recent firmware you should do so - it'll take care of some of the issues you mentioned. You should also try a hard reset before you go out next time - hold the bezel down until you see the count down. See if that helps. 

[golferguy2727]

12 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

Sorry to hear you've had such a bad experience. Is it a V3 vs. X5? The V3 is fairly bullet proof. The X5 has had some issues and if you haven't done a download of the recent firmware you should do so - it'll take care of some of the issues you mentioned. You should also try a hard reset before you go out next time - hold the bezel down until you see the count down. See if that helps. 

Hi Tony - yes I had the updated firmware and did a full reset based on the comments on this forum.  Really wanted to love the X5 - some earlier nine hole rounds weren't as unsatisfactory - only change I am aware of was the move to "locks" being disabled.

[sellemental]

Unfortunately, the V3 is no longer bullet proof.  I always expect to spend a little time editing after each round, and try to do it soon after getting home on my laptop, but it is taking longer and seeing many of the "X5" issues I've been reading about on this forum.

I had considered upgrading to the X5 when it initially launched  and the offered discount to current Shot Scope users, but honestly glad I did not.  Still love Shot Scope, and confident they will get it figured out, but really am looking forward to it when they do, hopefully sooner than later.

Everytime I had contacted SS support previous to the X5 roll out I received a response within a days time.  Very prompt, especially considering the time difference and all.  Last week I contacted them with a question and have yet to get a response.    To be fair, it's not a big deal, but I am curious to the answer.  

Perhaps someone on the forum knows ????

Here's the question I had sent to them:

I'm surprised I haven't asked about this before, and feel sure that others have, but here goes.

After editing a round and reviewing the stats for a round, I was surprised to find that the number of penalty strokes is not listed on the scorecard or somewhere in the stats.  Is this something I am missing, or could be added?

As best I can tell, the only way to know currently is reviewing on a hole by hole basis and manually counting them up.

Look forward to hearing from you when you get a moment.

Thanks,

[cnosil]

8 hours ago, sellemental said:

 

I'm surprised I haven't asked about this before, and feel sure that others have, but here goes.

After editing a round and reviewing the stats for a round, I was surprised to find that the number of penalty strokes is not listed on the scorecard or somewhere in the stats.  Is this something I am missing, or could be added?

As best I can tell, the only way to know currently is reviewing on a hole by hole basis and manually counting them up.

Tee shot metrics show the number of penalty shots.  Approach, short game, and putting don't seem to list penalty strokes.   My guess would be because they are factored in to the shots to complete the hole metric.  As you mentioned You can   review the holes to see if you took penalties.    

While I get the reason you want to see the number, I personally think that is outside the scope of what the device is trying to accomplish.  The intent is to evaluate how well you perform with each club and breaking down your game by distances.  For example If you are taking 4 shots on average to hole out with a 7 iron approach, you need to work on that club because you are missing greens and/or taking penalties.     

[golferguy2727]

Another strange reflection for me. With V3 I did most of my editing on the iOS app - not easy, but not hard for the most part and convenient when sitting in the car post round from a recollection point of view. With my two crazy rounds I mentioned. The sheer number of edits required me to use the web Dashboard method. Nice to have such a big space but strangely the actual shot map editing area is quite small given the total screen real estate - is it just me? I found I was constantly scrolling and zooming to adjust shots and putts. Better for shot assignment things like penalties and locations (tee, rough, sand etc). But I haven’t much used the web dashboard for editing and found it lacking for use ability. Now, for this  I am using safari browser and did not try another browser so maybe that’s it - since safari can render some pages strangely. 
 

being such a Shotscope fan, it feels like im complaining a lot this week - apologies 

Edited June 7, 2023 by golferguy2727
Typo city

[MIgregb]

A general X5 update. After doing a hard reset as cnosil suggested a few days ago, I used the X5 as a watch to see how battery life would be in that simple function. After only 5 hours of uptime, the battery drained to 79%. Granted, it also counts steps, and we went on a 45 minute walk. But that isn't GPS based from my understanding, so a 21% battery drain in only 5 hours isn't very good. In fact, it's pretty abysmal as a watch.

Yesterday, I played 18 holes and besides the heavy battery drain (down into the upper 20% range after 4-1/2 hours of play plus some watch only time), I noticed a couple new anomalies. First, the putting screen (manual mode) never appeared on the 1st hole even though it has every time in the past. Second, a shot was added in between actual shots with a club that I didn't even touch. This happened on two different holes. I seem to remember that there would be some AI stuff going on as the X5 becomes accustomed to the user, but I can't imagine it indiscriminately adding shots, so I have no clue that that was about. 

Lastly, and I sorta-kinda remember someone bringing this up before but it went over my head at the time, the scorecard function seems to be a completely separate function from the shot tracking function. I was VERY careful to be absolutely certain the correct score was recorded before leaving every green, but yet the shot tracking was off in several places vs. the scorecard. I'm not sure what value the scorecard provides if it's just an electronic means of writing down your score with no shot tracking error correction to it. It isn't nearly convenient enough for that.

So... while I've been understanding and supportive as they've worked through issues, I'm increasingly being pulled over to the we've been snookered camp. Sorry, that's too harsh. I do not believe anyone has tried to intentionally put out a bad product; it just isn't living up to my expectations of a 4th or 5th generation shot tracking product. Other than being prettier to look at, MY X5 isn't as operationally competent as either the V3 or the H4, even after 3 firmware updates. 

I've got so much money sunk into Shot Scope products that I have little choice but to give them more time to sort things out. But things need to get better quickly or it just isn't worth the trouble to keep using them. I hope the next firmware update makes me eat my words, but I'm not betting the farm on it.

[nupezb]

A general X5 update. After doing a hard reset as cnosil suggested a few days ago, I used the X5 as a watch to see how battery life would be in that simple function. After only 5 hours of uptime, the battery drained to 79%. Granted, it also counts steps, and we went on a 45 minute walk. But that isn't GPS based from my understanding, so a 21% battery drain in only 5 hours isn't very good. In fact, it's pretty abysmal as a watch.
Yesterday, I played 18 holes and besides the heavy battery drain (down into the upper 20% range after 4-1/2 hours of play plus some watch only time), I noticed a couple new anomalies. First, the putting screen (manual mode) never appeared on the 1st hole even though it has every time in the past. Second, a shot was added in between actual shots with a club that I didn't even touch. This happened on two different holes. I seem to remember that there would be some AI stuff going on as the X5 becomes accustomed to the user, but I can't imagine it indiscriminately adding shots, so I have no clue that that was about. 
Lastly, and I sorta-kinda remember someone bringing this up before but it went over my head at the time, the scorecard function seems to be a completely separate function from the shot tracking function. I was VERY careful to be absolutely certain the correct score was recorded before leaving every green, but yet the shot tracking was off in several places vs. the scorecard. I'm not sure what value the scorecard provides if it's just an electronic means of writing down your score with no shot tracking error correction to it. It isn't nearly convenient enough for that.
So... while I've been understanding and supportive as they've worked through issues, I'm increasingly being pulled over to the we've been snookered camp. Sorry, that's too harsh. I do not believe anyone has tried to intentionally put out a bad product; it just isn't living up to my expectations of a 4th or 5th generation shot tracking product. Other than being prettier to look at, MY X5 isn't as operationally competent as either the V3 or the H4, even after 3 firmware updates. 
I've got so much money sunk into Shot Scope products that I have little choice but to give them more time to sort things out. But things need to get better quickly or it just isn't worth the trouble to keep using them. I hope the next firmware update makes me eat my words, but I'm not betting the farm on it.

Great update! Having tried both Arccos and Garmin as a player, I can confidently say that no golf product is flawless. Speaking specifically about the scorecard, I faced a similar issue with my previous Garmin watch. Nonetheless, it didn't bother me much since I would simply make the necessary stroke adjustments during post-editing if I happened to forget.

I'm looking forward to the firmware improvement and the full hole overview.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MIgregb]

4 minutes ago, nupezb said:

Great update! Having tried both Arccos and Garmin as a player, I can confidently say that no golf product is flawless. Speaking specifically about the scorecard, I faced a similar issue with my previous Garmin watch. Nonetheless, it didn't bother me much since I would simply make the necessary stroke adjustments during post-editing if I happened to forget.

I'm looking forward to the firmware improvement and the full hole overview.
 

I did try Arccos in the (distant) past and found it more difficult to use/error prone than even early Shot Scope. But these are supposed to be golfing aids, not additional chores. I realize my frustration is showing, but right now I'm spending way too much time thinking about the shot tracking system, and not my shot. That has to change. If I was forced to make a decision today, I'd sell my X5 and H4 and use the V3 simply as a GPS device (that seems to work as well as any other GPS device I've seen) in conjunction with my Nikon laser range finder that I've had for nearly 25 years... that still works flawlessly!

(Whooo boy, deep breaths.)

[cnosil]

51 minutes ago, MIgregb said:

I realize my frustration is showing, but right now I'm spending way too much time thinking about the shot tracking system, and not my shot. That has to change. If I was forced to make a decision today, I'd sell my X5 and H4 and use the V3 simply as a GPS device (that seems to work as well as any other GPS device I've seen) in conjunction with my Nikon laser range finder that I've had for nearly 25 years... that still works flawlessly!

I understand your perception and frustration.  Your first statement s probably the biggest drawback to these systems and all the new functionality.   People want GPS, scorekeeping, watch functionality, club selector/caddie features, step counters, handicap service, and syncing all this stuff up.  I understand These companies have to keep adding features to generate new sales.   For me it is a GPS and a tool to tag the club I used for each shot and then it is a post round assessment tool.  I don’t want shot tracking to become this complex thing I need to do.  The h4 fits into what I think a shot tracking system should do.   I’ve said it before, for the average golfer, myself included, these systems may be too much and creates a lack of focus 

 

 

 

[tony@CIC]

3 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I understand your perception and frustration.  Your first statement s probably the biggest drawback to these systems and all the new functionality.   People want GPS, scorekeeping, watch functionality, club selector/caddie features, step counters, handicap service, and syncing all this stuff up.  I understand These companies have to keep adding features to generate new sales.   For me it is a GPS and a tool to tag the club I used for each shot and then it is a post round assessment tool.  I don’t want shot tracking to become this complex thing I need to do.  The h4 fits into what I think a shot tracking system should do.   I’ve said it before, for the average golfer, myself included, these systems may be too much and creates a lack of focus 

 

 

 

I was thinking the same thing this morning before reading your post. With the latest firmware my X5 is working just fine - but quite frankly it has too many options. I don't need a step counter, I can keep track of my strokes per hole - although I do use that function on the watch, I don't need to know the hole I'm on (feature next to  and around the bezel) and I don't need to move pin location before I hit my approach shot.  

On the other hand I do need a reliable shot tracker so I can monitor my individual club performance over time. The V3 did that but I got sucked into the "next, best thing" just like I do with other tech gear. 

[BobBC78]

I began using the V3 about 18-months ago and purchased the X5 earlier this year, mainly due to the great deal Shot Scope offered existing users. Although my X5 has generally worked well from the get-go, initially I had a pretty similar frustration to that expressed above by @MIgregb, that I was spending more time thinking about how to use the watch than I was about playing the game. Having gained experience of about 10 rounds with the X5, I have (i) gotten used to how to use it and (ii) not bothered with functions such as pin location and scoring which really don't provide much benefit to me. 

Also, I prefer the looks of the X5 (particularly the old timey analog face) versus the V3 and wear it as an everyday watch. 

[cksurfdude]

14 hours ago, golferguy2727 said:

Nice to have such a big space but strangely the actual shot map editing area is quite small given the total screen real estate - is it just me? I found I was constantly scrolling and zooming to adjust shots and putts. Better for shot assignment things like penalties and locations (tee, rough, sand etc).

No, you're not alone. A less than optimal UI design imho. Too much scrolling and extra clicking to complete edits...

I know in the past that the web dashboard has been low on their priority list when doing bug fixes, function enhancements, etc...

[cksurfdude]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

I’ve said it before, for the average golfer, myself included, these systems may be too much and creates a lack of focus 

Average golfer here nodding his head in agreement!

For me, as a few others mentioned, the primary on-course purpose is as a GPS plus distance to hazards guide (-and by having spot verified it against markers and with an LRF a few times I can say it's pretty accurate).

The only onboard function I commonly use is on the greens for +/- putts and Pin Collect.

Shot tracking, for me for right now, is not especially helpful (I inherently know every part of my game needs more work!) .. except again for putting that I occasionally monitor the stats for any new, bad trends that might stick out.

[golferguy2727]

12 minutes ago, cksurfdude said:

No, you're not alone. A less than optimal UI design imho. Too much scrolling and extra clicking to complete edits...

I know in the past that the web dashboard has been low on their priority list when doing bug fixes, function enhancements, etc...

I’ve long wondered if Shotscope and Arccos made a baby, she might be very beautiful

[MIgregb]

3 hours ago, BobBC78 said:

Also, I prefer the looks of the X5 (particularly the old timey analog face) versus the V3 and wear it as an everyday watch. 

When you wear it as just a watch, what kind of battery life are you getting? Thanks

[BobBC78]

46 minutes ago, MIgregb said:

When you wear it as just a watch, what kind of battery life are you getting? Thanks

Typically, 2 to 3 days. It probably drops by about 2/3 during an 18-hole round.