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2021 MGS Ball Test


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20 minutes ago, ejgaudette said:

This is a great data pull, and as a data nerd as well I love it. I would just add that as relates to comparing previous years the club used and the weather conditions for each test were different so. A little warmer, a different driver that launches a bit higher, or spins will have an effect. So to control for that only 1 year at a time would work. Of course to get in the data weeds you could normalize 2021 and 2019 separately to really compare how they performed in each year, but I'll leave it there before I bore 99% of the forum members.

That's kinda the point of my post and why I asked Tony about it. Clearly, if you were to take a fully scientific approach you'd eliminate every variable possible - test indoors, same robot, same exact clubs, protocols, etc., but the test as designed is meant to more closely mirror how each category of golfer (swing speed) would ideally want to game the golf ball (maximizing carry distance).

What I noticed in the test comments was repeat mention of how the Snell MTB-X didn't seem to perform as well in 2021 as it did in 2019 despite being the same ball (as far as design goes). My post was simply intended to shed light on the reason(s) for that and seek a little more clarity from MGS on how both tests were conducted.

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

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1 hour ago, TR1PTIK said:

I'm going to have to go back through the ball labs. I may be making a switch to the Maxfli just so my gamer ball is something a little more readily available.

MGSBall.png.267df89bd856b55e56e48f342429f9ab.png

 

You might want to do soon cause they might increase in price like last time 🤪

Only 1 brand beat it in ball labs and that was Titleist, thus why I was interested in the head-to-head between Tour CG & ProV1. And don't think I forgot all your work compiling the ball lab data @TR1PTIK into a thread, your time was much appreciated and I visited that thread often! 

Also, don't forget to check out the ongoing review for the 2021 Maxflis from our fellow forum-mates. 

Driver:  :titelist-small: TSi3 Tester Check out the Review HERE

2-Iron- :Sub70: 699-U

5-Wood:  :Sub70: Pro (18*) 

Irons :  :ping-small: i210 4-PW

Wedges:  :cleveland-small:  RTX-4 50* and 54* RTX-3 *58

Putter::1332069271_TommyArmour: Impact No. 3

Ball:  MAXFLI TOUR 

Tracked by: :Arccos:  

Bag: BagBoy ZTF Stand Bag (REVIEW HERE)

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19 minutes ago, HeathS16 said:

You might want to do soon cause they might increase in price like last time 🤪

Only 1 brand beat it in ball labs and that was Titleist, thus why I was interested in the head-to-head between Tour CG & ProV1. And don't think I forgot all your work compiling the ball lab data @TR1PTIK into a thread, your time was much appreciated and I visited that thread often! 

Also, don't forget to check out the ongoing review for the 2021 Maxflis from our fellow forum-mates. 

After reviewing the Ball Lab for the Maxfli Tour (no report for the Tour X yet) and Snell MTB-X the results were very similar. Snell was slightly better in major defects, but about the same for minor issues that likely would have no bearing on performance. Both tend to lean toward the smaller size which I like and Maxfli seemed to do better on overall consistency metrics. Perhaps the biggest downside to such a switch would be the loss of a bulk order discount. When purchasing 5 dozen Snells at the beginning of the season, the price per dozen still beats Maxfli - even with the current 2 for $60 deal.

Regardless, I'll be digging through the Ball Test data further and buying a box for on-course testing. Even if it doesn't fully replace Snell MTB-X in my bag, I could still see myself using it when I find myself in a pinch - e.g. the beginning of the season didn't fare well for my ball count and I'll likely need to buy a box or two to finish out the year unless I start playing better.

EDIT: Looking at the 8-iron and wedge results for high swing speed, the two balls are nearly indistinguishable. I don't swing it quite that fast, but I certainly skew towards that data set.

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

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27 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

That's kinda the point of my post and why I asked Tony about it. Clearly, if you were to take a fully scientific approach you'd eliminate every variable possible - test indoors, same robot, same exact clubs, protocols, etc., but the test as designed is meant to more closely mirror how each category of golfer (swing speed) would ideally want to game the golf ball (maximizing carry distance).

What I noticed in the test comments was repeat mention of how the Snell MTB-X didn't seem to perform as well in 2021 as it did in 2019 despite being the same ball (as far as design goes). My post was simply intended to shed light on the reason(s) for that and seek a little more clarity from MGS on how both tests were conducted.

Totally agree that there were some variables between years that makes the comparisons hard and yes I am sure Tony and team could share even more specifics

:callaway-small: Epic Max LS 9° :Fuji: Ventus Blue 6X  (2021 Official Review) | :callaway-small:Epic Speed 18° Evenflow Riptide 70g 6.0
:titelist-small: 816 H1 21° Mitsubishi Motors Mitsubishi Chemical Holdings Chemical industry Mitsubishi  Rayon Mitsubishi Chemical Corporation, mitsubishi, blue, company png |  PNGEgg Diamana S+ Blue 70 S | 
image.png.08bbf5bb553da418019f0db13c6f4f9a.png SMS 4-5/SMS Pro 6-PW  image.png.267751aa721ee9cf3944fa2ff070b98c.png  Steelfiber i95 S (2023 Official Review)
:ping-small: Glide 4.0 50°.12°S/54°.14°W/58°.6°T PING Z-Z115 Wedge Flex | :cleveland-small:  SOFT 11S Super Stroke Mid-Slim 2.0
:ping-small: Hoofer Bag | :titelist-small: Pro V1 | Right Handed | Tracked by :ShotScope: V3

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8 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

After reviewing the Ball Lab for the Maxfli Tour (no report for the Tour X yet) and Snell MTB-X the results were very similar. Snell was slightly better in major defects, but about the same for minor issues that likely would have no bearing on performance. Both tend to lean toward the smaller size which I like and Maxfli seemed to do better on overall consistency metrics. Perhaps the biggest downside to such a switch would be the loss of a bulk order discount. When purchasing 5 dozen Snells at the beginning of the season, the price per dozen still beats Maxfli - even with the current 2 for $60 deal.

Regardless, I'll be digging through the Ball Test data further and buying a box for on-course testing. Even if it doesn't fully replace Snell MTB-X in my bag, I could still see myself using it when I find myself in a pinch - e.g. the beginning of the season didn't fare well for my ball count and I'll likely need to buy a box or two to finish out the year unless I start playing better.

Man, I love the way this data was presented cause you really can find what works best for you personally. I mean, the golf ball we play is one variable we can control and reports like this allow us to make an informed decision! 

Driver:  :titelist-small: TSi3 Tester Check out the Review HERE

2-Iron- :Sub70: 699-U

5-Wood:  :Sub70: Pro (18*) 

Irons :  :ping-small: i210 4-PW

Wedges:  :cleveland-small:  RTX-4 50* and 54* RTX-3 *58

Putter::1332069271_TommyArmour: Impact No. 3

Ball:  MAXFLI TOUR 

Tracked by: :Arccos:  

Bag: BagBoy ZTF Stand Bag (REVIEW HERE)

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2 minutes ago, ejgaudette said:

Totally agree that there were some variables between years that makes the comparisons hard and yes I am sure Tony and team could share even more specifics

If he doesn't do a write-up on it, I'm hoping he'll at least discuss it in the next episode of NPG. Having worked in a testing environment for several years I can understand the reason for changing test protocols, but a lot of people probably don't and just want a fully apples-to-apples comparison every time out just like they want with golf clubs.

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

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1 hour ago, greggarner said:

CSX LS is going to be firmer than CSX and Left Dash is going to be slightly firmer than CSX LS. Based on the table at the top of the post, the CSX is going to feel pretty similar to the ProV1x, maybe just a touch softer. Pair that with better greenside spin than Left Dash and I think you might have a gamer.

Of note, when you get to the low-spin, super-firm balls like CSX LS and Left Dash, you're not only dealing with an overall firm ball, but a firm cover as well, which explains why a) lots of folks don't like it off the putter (very clicky) and b) why you give up greenside spin. Softer covers over firmer inner layers, like on CSX and ProV1x give you firm feel on full swings but more spin greenside and softer sounds off the putter (which is where "feel" in putting actually comes from)

Not interested in the LS version, but am very interested in the X version per these test results.

I tried the left dash for a few weeks and was amazed at how far it went for me in relation to every other ball ive tried this summer.......so that went well.....the mid irons wer just ok for me and around the green, it didnt really work for me. too much roll out for me. I need more spin around the greens......im trying to get past the things i hate about firm balls like the "clicky-ness"......why should i care how it sounds off the putter? I should care about performance only right? Its hard to get past this though.

If the CSX is slightly better felling than the V1X, i will like it.

I currently play prov1 and CS and both have been really good....CS is so much better than it gets credit for, but if I can get 5-10 more yards off the tee with the CSX, i definitely have a gamer. 

Golf is cool

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So I played around with some of the data, I'm a low spin player, low spin on my driver, low on my irons, low on my wedges. So I naturally filter the data for higher spin balls, and looked at their recommendations for the Higher Spin options in the mid swing speed. But I created a new column which wasn't included in the test, Stopping Power. Which is just total distance minus carry distance, basically how far the ball rolled out. So with a selection of balls I was interested in it turned out that the Z-Star XV actual stops the fastest, about 30% faster than an TP5x. And it was even below average on spin.

The Wilson Staff and Chrome X also stopped noticeably below average, as they were the highest spinning two in the batch that was expected. But Vice Pro at 4th in stopping was surprising since it was so low on spin. Also, I didn't include this in the chart below, sorry, but average Spin for this group was 6163.4, average stop was 14.29. So now I am going to look at driver stats and wedge stats for this group, but the clubhouse leader after my specific iron data criteria is the Z-Star XV, with the Maxfli Tour X rounding out the top 5. 

 

image.png.fef651aa2b1722c4a586cb9f1592fb5d.png

WITB:

Driver:   :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 12° - Accra TZ6 M4

FW Wood:     th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg Gen5 0311 7w  Fujikura Motore X F3

Irons:   :srixon-small: ZX7 PW-7i, ZX5 6i-5i

Wedges: :cleveland-small:  Zipcore 50°, 58°

Putter:   :taylormade-small: MySpider X

Cart: image.png.5aa5e9b8c0d6e08a2b12be76a06a07ca.pngOnewheel XR+

Ball: :srixon-small: Z-Star Diamond/ Z-Star XV

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6 minutes ago, Thin2win said:

So I played around with some of the data, I'm a low spin player, low spin on my driver, low on my irons, low on my wedges. So I naturally filter the data for higher spin balls, and looked at their recommendations for the Higher Spin options in the mid swing speed. But I created a new column which wasn't included in the test, Stopping Power. Which is just total distance minus carry distance, basically how far the ball rolled out. So with a selection of balls I was interested in it turned out that the Z-Star XV actual stops the fastest, about 30% faster than an TP5x. And it was even below average on spin.

The Wilson Staff and Chrome X also stopped noticeably below average, as they were the highest spinning two in the batch that was expected. But Vice Pro at 4th in stopping was surprising since it was so low on spin. Also, I didn't include this in the chart below, sorry, but average Spin for this group was 6163.4, average stop was 14.29. So now I am going to look at driver stats and wedge stats for this group, but the clubhouse leader after my specific iron data criteria is the Z-Star XV, with the Maxfli Tour X rounding out the top 5. 

 

image.png.fef651aa2b1722c4a586cb9f1592fb5d.png

Like what you are doing here.   I personally think this is how the data is intended to be used.  I have been playing the TP5 for about a month and I like how it performs for me.  I am typically lower launch, lower Spin off the driver when I hit it with an ascending stroke.  I think the extra spin gives me a little more launch and height.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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2 hours ago, TR1PTIK said:

MTB-X had one of the largest Shot Areas of the 2018 test, but was only 8.57 yards left of target on average which placed it somewhere mildly worse than average. Shot Area is simply the ellipses you would draw around all shots represented as a number and accounts for left, right, long, and short - put simply, total dispersion.

 

988818415_CarryOffline.png.1b516739c839c61677b708d720fa2ce3.png

However, it's possible to achieve a seemingly large shot area with individual shot performance that falls within a perfectly acceptable range. This is probably why not much was said about it during the 2019 test and why it was left out entirely in the 2021 test. Without being able to see individual shot performance and deep dive into the variances it's difficult to say how meaningful the shot area number from the 2019 test really is.

As for Ball Lab, I am more than willing to trust quality metrics derived from a scientific approach using calibrated gauges in determining a suitable ball for my performance needs and budget. However, that would simply be a start as I would still want to (and did in the case of MTB-X) test the ball on the golf course. 

It was the MTB Black... This was the chart I was thinking of but forgot both Snell balls were tested, thanks for posting. 

My opinion is the shot area is either a function of spin/aerodynamic consistency or ball quality/consistency, at least relative to the test pool - with smaller being better. 

:ping-small: G425 MAX Driver & 5W

:cobra-small: Baffler Rail-H 3H-4H

:Sub70: 699 Pro Utility V2 - 4i

:callaway-small: APEX CF19 6-AW

INDI Wedges 52, 56, 60 

 :edel-golf-1: EAS 2.0

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2 hours ago, ejgaudette said:

Totally agree that there were some variables between years that makes the comparisons hard and yes I am sure Tony and team could share even more specifics

This makes me think about going to a club fitting and only hitting a handful of shots in a single day. Sure, your fit will work whenever you swing exactly like you did during your fit, but then you start going back to the gym. Then it rains. Then you don't stretch quite as well. Then you don't drink enough water. Then you make a tweak to your takeaway. Then... Trying to compare year to year is virtually impossible. There's already an element of randomness introduced in outdoor/downrange testing across a single week, but trying to compare results from 2019 to 2021 should just serve to confirm what we already knew: golf is a game with an element of uncertainty played on a non-uniform field. Having this data in as close to a controlled environment as possible is immensely valuable, but I'm real cautious about trying to overextend the data. For the average Joe, this dataset is leaps and bounds more than anything they could ever hope for and they're not going to get beyond the high/mid/low ball recommendations.

That being said, I totally agree that providing more club data beyond just club specs and swing speed would be helpful for those of us who actually do know our numbers. I'm seeing a lot of posts here and on social where folks are trying to extrapolate ("well I'm a low-spin player" "My driver speed and 8i speed don't match these patterns so..." etc) and I think it's going to lead to a lot of folks drawing very misguided conclusions.

I'm not the first to say it, but hopefully not the last: these data are a starting point for narrowing your search. NOBODY should use these data to buy 6 dozen of something, sight-unseen...

 

Edited by greggarner
typo

Driver: :srixon-small: ZX5 LS MkII 9.5* (@ 9.0*) with 46.5" Ventus Blue 6X
3-wood: :taylormade-small: SIM 15* with Diamana Limited 75S
5-wood: :cobra-small: RADspeed 18.5* with Motore X F3 60S
2i: :srixon-small: ZX with SteelFiber i95 Stiff

4hy: :titleist-small: TS3 23* with Tensei AV Blue 70 S
4i-7i :srixon-small: ZX7, 8i-PW Z-Forged, Modus3 Tour 120 S
50*, 55* :cleveland-small: RTX 6 Modus3 Tour 125
60* :cleveland-small: RTX Full Face ZipCore DG Spinner S400
Putter: :callaway-small: Toulon Chicago with a :garsen: Quad Tour or :cleveland-small: HB SOFT Milled 10.5S with UST All-in

Ball: :callaway-small: Chrome Tour (but I might still have some :titleist-small: Left Dashes hanging around)
Bag: :srixon-small: Ltd Edition Tartan, blue/green/yellow

Using :ShotScope: to keep track of my shots

Tested:
:wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged 3i-PW, KBS Tour-V 110S - Official Review
:titelist-small: Blind Ball Test (Ball #3 vs Ball #4) - Unofficial Review
:ShotScope:
 V3 GPS Watch + Tags - Official Review
:OnCore:
 Vero X2 - Official Review

The Stack System - Official Review

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1 minute ago, greggarner said:

I'm not the first to say it, but hopefully not the last: this data is a starting point for narrowing your search. NOBODY should use this data to buy 6 dozen of something, sight-unseen...

 

Well too late I have already done that 😁, but in all honesty it is so true and its something that they have talked about on the Hack It Out podcast and Lou Stagner I think said something like close to 30 shots with each club would be a place where things start to even out and we all know no one is hitting 30 shots with the each combo they try.

:callaway-small: Epic Max LS 9° :Fuji: Ventus Blue 6X  (2021 Official Review) | :callaway-small:Epic Speed 18° Evenflow Riptide 70g 6.0
:titelist-small: 816 H1 21° Mitsubishi Motors Mitsubishi Chemical Holdings Chemical industry Mitsubishi  Rayon Mitsubishi Chemical Corporation, mitsubishi, blue, company png |  PNGEgg Diamana S+ Blue 70 S | 
image.png.08bbf5bb553da418019f0db13c6f4f9a.png SMS 4-5/SMS Pro 6-PW  image.png.267751aa721ee9cf3944fa2ff070b98c.png  Steelfiber i95 S (2023 Official Review)
:ping-small: Glide 4.0 50°.12°S/54°.14°W/58°.6°T PING Z-Z115 Wedge Flex | :cleveland-small:  SOFT 11S Super Stroke Mid-Slim 2.0
:ping-small: Hoofer Bag | :titelist-small: Pro V1 | Right Handed | Tracked by :ShotScope: V3

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9 minutes ago, BMart519 said:

It was the MTB Black... This was the chart I was thinking of but forgot both Snell balls were tested, thanks for posting. 

My opinion is the shot area is either a function of spin/aerodynamic consistency or ball quality/consistency, at least relative to the test pool - with smaller being better. 

Even still, MTB Black was only offline by 5-6 yards; it's just that it was offline to the right while everything else was offline to the left so it looks much worse than it actually is.

There is certainly merit to the idea that build quality could have played a role in the shot area for MTB-X during the 2019 test, but with outdoor environmental factors at play who's to say for sure except those directly involved with the test. However, if there was something alarming going on with MTB-X I think it would have been noted somewhere in the test results or discussed in Ball Lab.

Like I stated before, what we see in Ball Lab (as well as what we see in the Ball Test) is merely a starting point for the individual golfer. It's on us to determine what works best for our game and budget.

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

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So as I sit and ponder more about the test (how it was designed and conducted) I got to questioning my own assumption that Tony and the gang were targeting maximum carry distance. When you look at launch and spin, they are not what we normally hear or read about for achieving max distance. Did they target launch and spin to mimic a player looking for more control (and carry distance was simply a byproduct of elevation)?

I might do okay digging through data, but I know we've got plenty of folks here with more knowledge on launch and spin dynamics. What do you think about the numbers?

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

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well, I played around with the driver numbers using the same set of balls. This time I focused on Carry as my most desired trait, I can't control the roll and sometimes there just isn't any in the PNW. That said, I looked at my new made up stat of bonus distance, because if the ball carried the furthest and rolled out the furthest, well that would just be triple stack pancakes. Then I colored stuff, brighter green for more better, brighter brown for more poopy. So, um, I think the Maxfli X is out of the running as it got a 3 poop rating. 

 

 

image.png.acfb9d838eae233cf7a6a3aabb1464ca.png

Then after that, I averaged my 8i list with my driver list, and poof!

rank.PNG.03057fd8fb4f998831663a3e74c39390.PNG

Vice Pro and Chrome Soft x come out on top with a 3 way tie for 3rd. Guess I'll try out some Chrome Soft X at some point. But my biggest takeaway, is that I'm basically Tiger Woods, I mean, B XS in my top 3? 😃

WITB:

Driver:   :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 12° - Accra TZ6 M4

FW Wood:     th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg Gen5 0311 7w  Fujikura Motore X F3

Irons:   :srixon-small: ZX7 PW-7i, ZX5 6i-5i

Wedges: :cleveland-small:  Zipcore 50°, 58°

Putter:   :taylormade-small: MySpider X

Cart: image.png.5aa5e9b8c0d6e08a2b12be76a06a07ca.pngOnewheel XR+

Ball: :srixon-small: Z-Star Diamond/ Z-Star XV

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1 hour ago, Thin2win said:

So I played around with some of the data, I'm a low spin player, low spin on my driver, low on my irons, low on my wedges. So I naturally filter the data for higher spin balls, and looked at their recommendations for the Higher Spin options in the mid swing speed. But I created a new column which wasn't included in the test, Stopping Power. Which is just total distance minus carry distance, basically how far the ball rolled out. So with a selection of balls I was interested in it turned out that the Z-Star XV actual stops the fastest, about 30% faster than an TP5x. And it was even below average on spin.

The Wilson Staff and Chrome X also stopped noticeably below average, as they were the highest spinning two in the batch that was expected. But Vice Pro at 4th in stopping was surprising since it was so low on spin. Also, I didn't include this in the chart below, sorry, but average Spin for this group was 6163.4, average stop was 14.29. So now I am going to look at driver stats and wedge stats for this group, but the clubhouse leader after my specific iron data criteria is the Z-Star XV, with the Maxfli Tour X rounding out the top 5. 

 

image.png.fef651aa2b1722c4a586cb9f1592fb5d.png

If it's been mentioned and I just didn't see it I apologize. You talk about stopping power while looking primarily at spin and distance, but have you looked at peak height and descent angle? For being so similar in spin, it makes sense that Z-Star XV would stop faster than TP5x when it's coming in almost 2-degrees steeper.

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

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12 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

If it's been mentioned and I just didn't see it I apologize. You talk about stopping power while looking primarily at spin and distance, but have you looked at peak height and descent angle? For being so similar in spin, it makes sense that Z-Star XV would stop faster than TP5x when it's coming in almost 2-degrees steeper.

For sure.

my calculation for stopping power was purely total distance minus carry distance. I didn't really care if the stop came from spin, height or decent angle. All those definitely play their part in the stopping equation. 

 So while I did show Spin, that was more just for my curiosity. I didn't use it for anything. I did have decent angle and peak height on my spreadsheet, but hide those columns before adding it here. They just added lots of numbers without much value.

For my sheet, the Z-Star VX has the best stopping power, but below average spin. So without even looking at the table, I could pretty much guess that it had a steeper decent angle to get to that stopping distance, same for the Vice Pro. While the Chrome Soft X gets its juice off spin and a lower angle. 

Since I didn't care how it stopped, it didn't weight spin vs decent vs height at all. But if someone wanted the ball that stopped the fastest with the lowest peak height for example, the data is there to find it, so again, big props to Tony and Team. 

WITB:

Driver:   :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 12° - Accra TZ6 M4

FW Wood:     th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg Gen5 0311 7w  Fujikura Motore X F3

Irons:   :srixon-small: ZX7 PW-7i, ZX5 6i-5i

Wedges: :cleveland-small:  Zipcore 50°, 58°

Putter:   :taylormade-small: MySpider X

Cart: image.png.5aa5e9b8c0d6e08a2b12be76a06a07ca.pngOnewheel XR+

Ball: :srixon-small: Z-Star Diamond/ Z-Star XV

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4 hours ago, jroot327 said:

As someone who needs a low spin driver ball, but still wants spin and control from short irons and wedges, the Z-star out performs ProV1 and Chrome soft IMO.

I noting that a number of you are focused on wanting lower spin balls with driver.  During my recent fitting, my G410P with the Alta CB S averaged 3642 rpm and with the KBS Tour (my current shaft) averaged 2852 rpm.  I'm curious how my driver spin numbers compare to yours and whether a lower spin ball is something I should consider? 🤔

:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

:odyssey-small: AI-One Milled Seven T CH (Currently Under Product Test)

 

 

 

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At what point would you consider fitting the ball to your play? I understand that different club shafts can produce different ball trajectory and spin rates and that not all balls play the same. With that said is a constant balancing act or is there a certain point where you lock in a shaft and fine tune with the ball or vice versa? 

Driver: :titelist-small: - TSR2 Tensei 1K Pro Orange

Wood: :titelist-small: - TSR2+ Tensei 1k Pro Orange

Irons: :mizuno-small: - MP 241 PW-6

          :mizuno-small: - MP 245 4&5 

          :titelist-small: - T200 3 Driving Iron

Wedges: :vokey-small: - 54/58 12D

Putter: :L.A.B.:  - Mezz.1 Max

Ball:  :bridgestone-small: - Tour BX

Data: :Arccos:

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1 minute ago, TheProfessor02 said:

a constant balancing act or is there a certain point where you lock in a shaft and fine tune with the ball or vice versa? 

I mean, at least for me, golf balls are a lot cheaper than new clubs, but don't tell my wife

Driver: :srixon-small: ZX5 LS MkII 9.5* (@ 9.0*) with 46.5" Ventus Blue 6X
3-wood: :taylormade-small: SIM 15* with Diamana Limited 75S
5-wood: :cobra-small: RADspeed 18.5* with Motore X F3 60S
2i: :srixon-small: ZX with SteelFiber i95 Stiff

4hy: :titleist-small: TS3 23* with Tensei AV Blue 70 S
4i-7i :srixon-small: ZX7, 8i-PW Z-Forged, Modus3 Tour 120 S
50*, 55* :cleveland-small: RTX 6 Modus3 Tour 125
60* :cleveland-small: RTX Full Face ZipCore DG Spinner S400
Putter: :callaway-small: Toulon Chicago with a :garsen: Quad Tour or :cleveland-small: HB SOFT Milled 10.5S with UST All-in

Ball: :callaway-small: Chrome Tour (but I might still have some :titleist-small: Left Dashes hanging around)
Bag: :srixon-small: Ltd Edition Tartan, blue/green/yellow

Using :ShotScope: to keep track of my shots

Tested:
:wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged 3i-PW, KBS Tour-V 110S - Official Review
:titelist-small: Blind Ball Test (Ball #3 vs Ball #4) - Unofficial Review
:ShotScope:
 V3 GPS Watch + Tags - Official Review
:OnCore:
 Vero X2 - Official Review

The Stack System - Official Review

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22 minutes ago, TheProfessor02 said:

At what point would you consider fitting the ball to your play? I understand that different club shafts can produce different ball trajectory and spin rates and that not all balls play the same. With that said is a constant balancing act or is there a certain point where you lock in a shaft and fine tune with the ball or vice versa? 

It is much easier to change your spin by 100's of rpm using different balls then different shafts. So much easier to tune for that. Finding a shaft that you constantly square up to the ball at impact is pretty important however. I'd find a shaft/club head that you hit square, then find the ball that gets you spin numbers you are looking for. 

WITB:

Driver:   :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 12° - Accra TZ6 M4

FW Wood:     th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg Gen5 0311 7w  Fujikura Motore X F3

Irons:   :srixon-small: ZX7 PW-7i, ZX5 6i-5i

Wedges: :cleveland-small:  Zipcore 50°, 58°

Putter:   :taylormade-small: MySpider X

Cart: image.png.5aa5e9b8c0d6e08a2b12be76a06a07ca.pngOnewheel XR+

Ball: :srixon-small: Z-Star Diamond/ Z-Star XV

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1 hour ago, fixyurdivot said:

I noting that a number of you are focused on wanting lower spin balls with driver.  During my recent fitting, my G410P with the Alta CB S averaged 3642 rpm and with the KBS Tour (my current shaft) averaged 2852 rpm.  I'm curious how my driver spin numbers compare to yours and whether a lower spin ball is something I should consider? 🤔

I'm always struggling to get above 2k spin with a driver, so I go the other direction. But generally speaking in terms of shear distance, 17° launch at 1700 rpm will fly the ball the furthest. if you launch it lower, you want more spin, and higher(!?) less spin. that said, you lose a lot of control with those numbers. I think for a control /distance balance, college players try to get around 2200 rpm of backspin, tour pros actual average higher, like 2700 so they are leaving distance on the table, but they hit it far enough that control is more important i guess. 

Slower swing speeds can benefit from more spin to help keep the ball in the air longer, so for some 3k+ would probably be ideal. But for the most part, somewhere around 2500 for us amateur's is probably about right. Again, very generally speaking, using what little I know 😃

WITB:

Driver:   :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 12° - Accra TZ6 M4

FW Wood:     th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg Gen5 0311 7w  Fujikura Motore X F3

Irons:   :srixon-small: ZX7 PW-7i, ZX5 6i-5i

Wedges: :cleveland-small:  Zipcore 50°, 58°

Putter:   :taylormade-small: MySpider X

Cart: image.png.5aa5e9b8c0d6e08a2b12be76a06a07ca.pngOnewheel XR+

Ball: :srixon-small: Z-Star Diamond/ Z-Star XV

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16 minutes ago, Thin2win said:

It is much easier to change your spin by 100's of rpm using different balls then different shafts. So much easier to tune for that. Finding a shaft that you constantly square up to the ball at impact is pretty important however. I'd find a shaft/club head that you hit square, then find the ball that gets you spin numbers you are looking for. 

That's pretty much what I figured. The same way you would use the larger dials on a microscope to tune your focus for what you need then the smaller dials to really hone in and make it sharp. In this scenario the club head and shaft get you in the ball park then the golf ball can be used to find the particular window you want to be in for flight and backspin. 

Driver: :titelist-small: - TSR2 Tensei 1K Pro Orange

Wood: :titelist-small: - TSR2+ Tensei 1k Pro Orange

Irons: :mizuno-small: - MP 241 PW-6

          :mizuno-small: - MP 245 4&5 

          :titelist-small: - T200 3 Driving Iron

Wedges: :vokey-small: - 54/58 12D

Putter: :L.A.B.:  - Mezz.1 Max

Ball:  :bridgestone-small: - Tour BX

Data: :Arccos:

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13 minutes ago, Thin2win said:

I'm always struggling to get above 2k spin with a driver, so I go the other direction. But generally speaking in terms of shear distance, 17° launch at 1700 rpm will fly the ball the furthest. if you launch it lower, you want more spin, and higher(!?) less spin. that said, you lose a lot of control with those numbers. I think for a control /distance balance, college players try to get around 2200 rpm of backspin, tour pros actual average higher, like 2700 so they are leaving distance on the table, but they hit it far enough that control is more important i guess. 

Slower swing speeds can benefit from more spin to help keep the ball in the air longer, so for some 3k+ would probably be ideal. But for the most part, somewhere around 2500 for us amateur's is probably about right. Again, very generally speaking, using what little I know 😃

This might be helpful (especially as you're sifting through the ball data and then testing on your own)

Driver: :srixon-small: ZX5 LS MkII 9.5* (@ 9.0*) with 46.5" Ventus Blue 6X
3-wood: :taylormade-small: SIM 15* with Diamana Limited 75S
5-wood: :cobra-small: RADspeed 18.5* with Motore X F3 60S
2i: :srixon-small: ZX with SteelFiber i95 Stiff

4hy: :titleist-small: TS3 23* with Tensei AV Blue 70 S
4i-7i :srixon-small: ZX7, 8i-PW Z-Forged, Modus3 Tour 120 S
50*, 55* :cleveland-small: RTX 6 Modus3 Tour 125
60* :cleveland-small: RTX Full Face ZipCore DG Spinner S400
Putter: :callaway-small: Toulon Chicago with a :garsen: Quad Tour or :cleveland-small: HB SOFT Milled 10.5S with UST All-in

Ball: :callaway-small: Chrome Tour (but I might still have some :titleist-small: Left Dashes hanging around)
Bag: :srixon-small: Ltd Edition Tartan, blue/green/yellow

Using :ShotScope: to keep track of my shots

Tested:
:wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged 3i-PW, KBS Tour-V 110S - Official Review
:titelist-small: Blind Ball Test (Ball #3 vs Ball #4) - Unofficial Review
:ShotScope:
 V3 GPS Watch + Tags - Official Review
:OnCore:
 Vero X2 - Official Review

The Stack System - Official Review

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3 hours ago, greggarner said:

I'm not the first to say it, but hopefully not the last: these data are a starting point for narrowing your search. NOBODY should use these data to buy 6 dozen of something, sight-unseen...

True, but we're humans, worse yet men, and are forever thinking that silver bullet, missing link, The Holy Grail, is but one purchase away 🙂.

One positive note is that it appears we still have a moderate threshold between the increasing ball speeds exceeding the limits of the ball... your particular driver maybe not so much 😲.  I love these type videos and hope you find it entertaining.

 

:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

:odyssey-small: AI-One Milled Seven T CH (Currently Under Product Test)

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, fixyurdivot said:

I noting that a number of you are focused on wanting lower spin balls with driver.  During my recent fitting, my G410P with the Alta CB S averaged 3642 rpm and with the KBS Tour (my current shaft) averaged 2852 rpm.  I'm curious how my driver spin numbers compare to yours and whether a lower spin ball is something I should consider? 🤔

 

38 minutes ago, Thin2win said:

I'm always struggling to get above 2k spin with a driver, so I go the other direction. But generally speaking in terms of shear distance, 17° launch at 1700 rpm will fly the ball the furthest. if you launch it lower, you want more spin, and higher(!?) less spin. that said, you lose a lot of control with those numbers. I think for a control /distance balance, college players try to get around 2200 rpm of backspin, tour pros actual average higher, like 2700 so they are leaving distance on the table, but they hit it far enough that control is more important i guess. 

Slower swing speeds can benefit from more spin to help keep the ball in the air longer, so for some 3k+ would probably be ideal. But for the most part, somewhere around 2500 for us amateur's is probably about right. Again, very generally speaking, using what little I know 😃

@fixyurdivot I honestly haven't hit my current set-up on a simulator to get spin numbers(I know, I know, get fitted which I did at a Callaway demo day, but w/o a launch monitor). What I do know is that I hit a mid-launch cut and am averaging just over 290 this season (according to my shotscope data). My miss tends to be a block fade/slice and I figure the spin I'm trying to take off is some side spin, and might even get more roll out with a bit lower backspin. So all I'm doing is using my experience with my ball flight on my current gamer and comparing the numbers of other balls to that one within my swing speed so I can test on the course and see if I get any kind of noticeable change. I'm hoping that will be a straighter and/or longer shot with my driver, without losing anything (or even getting better) around the greens. Based on my shot shape, I assume I'm fairly high spin. I like tinkering with things here and there so I figure it's worth a shot. 

As @Thin2winpointed out there are alot of variables and certain times you want to take spin off or add it. He seems to know way more about spin windows than I do so I'd look at what he said but, just from my experience I'd just say to make sure you can control the spin if you're going to add it.

image.png.258d22fcc4d0d25f5fdb8eea25fcd23f.png B21 9.5* w/ PX Evenflow Black 6.5

:ping-small: G410 SFT 16* 3-wood w/ PX Evenflow Black 6.5

image.png.de7870be9e5ebe2ff26fab3151edb989.png Stealth DHY 2i w/ Aldila Ascent Black Stiff

:srixon-small: z585 4-AW w/ Modus3 120x

:cleveland-small: RTX Zipcore Tour Rack Raw 56.12 & 60.10 w/ Modus3 125w

image.png.a2a25073d1a41c5de1690a6254814da3.png Super Select Newport Plus -or- :odyssey-small: White Hot OG #1WS w/ Stroke Lab 

image.png.d2e91492049dce3981a9fad088921b12.png ProV1

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Oh sure, they day after the ball test comes out Vice launches a  "fused" urethane cover ball @ $22/ dozen....SmartSelect_20210817-182937_Chrome.jpg.c7c11fee02d6ee98676ddb8362121673.jpg

WITB:

Driver:   :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 12° - Accra TZ6 M4

FW Wood:     th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg Gen5 0311 7w  Fujikura Motore X F3

Irons:   :srixon-small: ZX7 PW-7i, ZX5 6i-5i

Wedges: :cleveland-small:  Zipcore 50°, 58°

Putter:   :taylormade-small: MySpider X

Cart: image.png.5aa5e9b8c0d6e08a2b12be76a06a07ca.pngOnewheel XR+

Ball: :srixon-small: Z-Star Diamond/ Z-Star XV

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On 8/17/2021 at 8:51 AM, fixyurdivot said:

Am I the only one who thinks course lakes and ranges are going to have a bump in Kirkland ball inventory?

There is always going to be a market for cheap golf balls, the average weekend hacker loses six or seven balls around cares more about cost than performance, Not to mention there’s still a lot of people that heard all the buzz about the Kirkland bowls based on their first generation and don’t even realize that the ball has changed.

 

 

:callaway-small: XR Driver Matrix Ozik 8m3 Black Tie Shaft

:cobra-small: King F7 3W UST Mamiya Chrome Elements 7F4 Shaft

:cobra-small: King F7 5W UST Mamiya Chrome Elements 7F4 Shaft

:cobra-small: King F7 4 Hybrid Graphite Designs Tour AD-HY 95 Shaft

PXG 0211 DC 5-PW Mitsubishi MMT 80 Shafts

:cleveland-small: RTX ZIPCORE 50*,54*,58* UST Mamiya Recoil 95 Shafts

:odyssey-small: Metal X Milled #7 with SuperStroke 2.0 grip

:Snell: MTB

 

 



Twitter: @timldotson
Instagram: timldotson
Facebook: TimDotson

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3 minutes ago, TBT said:

There is always going to be a market for cheap golf balls, the average weekend hacker loses six or seven balls around cares more about cost than performance, Not to mention there’s still a lot of people that heard all the buzz about the Kirkland bowls based on their first generation and don’t even realize that the ball has changed.

True.  I remember throwing found Kirkland's back into their hiding spots before joining MGS and not knowing anything about them. Subsequently, one of the Canadians in our winter group raved about them and I tried a few. Anyone know when the recipe changed and whether we (Ball Lab) has any old vs. new performance data?  Further, is there a way to determine which is which?

:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

:odyssey-small: AI-One Milled Seven T CH (Currently Under Product Test)

 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

True.  I remember throwing found Kirkland's back into their hiding spots before joining MGS and not knowing anything about them. Subsequently, one of the Canadians in our winter group raved about them and I tried a few. Anyone know when the recipe changed and whether we (Ball Lab) has any old vs. new performance data?  Further, is there a way to determine which is which?

The ball changed shortly after the first batch was sold out; probably less than a year. Golf balls are generally distinguishable by the markings.  I think the kirklands went from a “performance” to “performance+” on the ball.   I’d go look at the MGS articles about the Kirkland balls and you should be able to Gary her the information you are seeking.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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