2021 MGS Ball Test

[Tarheelvolvo]

6 hours ago, Tsecor said:

lol...yea i definitely need to work out my issues on this...i am totally skepticle  

I would love to see iron fitting start with the wedge, just like the ball. Marry up the two throughout the entire process. I understand the split at the 6/7 iron but i think that is all the more reason to treat fittings much differently.  I was told i should play the same shaft with both sides of the split.....why do a fitting then if you just assume the same shaft is optima throughout the bag.....unles its a utility...makes no sense to me..... i would think a different shaft in the 4-5-6 irons could be very different than the 7-PW set up....maybe not but i was told I should keep them the same...

 

Doubt many shops would have enough test irons in their cart to fit you for each one. I'm fortunate enough to have a highly respected fitter in my area, but even he only gets certain irons from OEM's to build out the testing cart each season. 

[Tsecor]

22 hours ago, greggarner said:

Here's my ideal process under the assumption that all full-swing activities need two days worth of data because your swing is slightly different day to day--

Day One:
- Warm up then evaluation with current clubs and gamer ball; discuss strengths/weaknesses, likes/dislikes
- ball fitting using current clubs
- Putter fitting
- Short, mid, long iron fitting (GW, 9, 7, 5) using new ball

Day Two:
- Check putter fit from day one
- warm up then short, mid, long iron fitting (PW, 8, 6, 4) using new ball
- woods/hybrid fitting (gapping based on where you ended the top end of your iron fit) using new ball

Day Three:
- warm up then woods/hybrid fitting using new ball
- wedge fitting (gapping based on where you ended the bottom end of your bag) using new ball; double-check specialty wedges vs set wedges
- ball fitting check with 2-3 representative shots from each segment of the bag

This would be great. ive seen TXG do this but thats about it

[Londo]

On 8/17/2021 at 3:33 PM, greggarner said:

I mean, at least for me, golf balls are a lot cheaper than new clubs, but don't tell my wife

When I tell her how much I am "saving" on balls vs. $50/dozen, it builds up some cache lol. For the most part, I usually get rid of a club/clubs when I get new ones. Usually. Sometimes. Occasionally 

[Tsecor]

On 8/19/2021 at 12:51 PM, mikeanthony said:

Analysis Paralysis is a very real phenomenon that I think many of us have gone through at one point or another, especially when one is analytical in nature. 

I know this sounds cliche and I'm sure it's been mentioned many a times on a different thread, but sometimes a hard timeout from the game golf for several days or even several weeks, usually proves to be extremely beneficial. I can't think of another sport (and I'm sure there are many) where a crisis in confidence and self-doubt can lead to such negative results the way the sport of golf does. 

You're a 12 handicap, and I'd imagine a score in the mid 80s range is typical for you ... I know this is easier said than done, but in all seriousness, you've got this. Stay positive, exude positive energy and good results will come.  On the days that I'm playing well, I've noticed after the round, that I was fully committed to each shot in real time and that I accepted whatever the result was of that shot. Why worry about the next shot when I don't know what it's going to be. Now, does that happen every time ... NEVER! LOL That's the beauty of golf. 

Keep at it! We've all been in your situation before. 

I stepped away all week trying to get my head right for our club championship tomorrow night. Somehow after a real hot start to the summer, and faltering a lot the last 3 weeks, i find myself playing for the championship...had my HDCP down to a 7 but its back up to a 9 right now......lets hope this little break breeds results for me......but you are right in everything you said.......appreciate this post!  ty

[Tsecor]

On 8/18/2021 at 1:41 PM, cnosil said:

Probably.  There are lawsuits in the golf equipment space regularly.   From what I remember it was actually a TM ball design;  probably wrong but that is what is in my head right now.  

the 1st batch of "kirklands" were large batch over over runs from another company....some claim they were Titleist and some claim they were another major manufacturer.  Regardless, that batch dried up and then Kirkland had to find other balls to keep the line going...they struck gold with that 1st batch of "extra" balls but now, they just throw their name on whatever crappy ball is available for them

[Londo]

On 8/19/2021 at 9:55 AM, Tsecor said:

i think to cure my skepticle attitude, that may be the best for me. Even if the results came out exactly the same, at least I would know all stones have been turned over and ive eliminated all my bias and all my questions....

im such a head case this season and i dont know why, but ive been doing my own ball fitting on course....ive bought most major manufactures newest ball and ive found that certain balls do not work for me at all (V1X) and certain balls do very well (CS). on course play is so much different than hitting off a mat inside a booth.....i dont think ball fitting inside works at all...its just numbers on a screen. how the ball performs off hardpan, or from the rough or through the wind means a lot. Last night i played in high humidity with a 20 mph wind (Hurricane fred was coming in) and i used two balls....CS and Prov1.....the prov1 was noticeably better in these conditions, especially the wind.  I wish i could test a slew of new irons outside off of grass conditions but we all know that is really hard to come by. 

Are you me? I started poking around about a month ago starting to game different balls and the V1x was noticeably worse for me than the CS playing the exact same shots haha

[Tsecor]

On 8/25/2021 at 4:18 PM, Londo said:

Are you me? I started poking around about a month ago starting to game different balls and the V1x was noticeably worse for me than the CS playing the exact same shots haha

i just played the CSX for a full round the other night and when hit well, it flies pretty good off the driver. However, mid irons were noticeably shorter than the CS.....i actually had a 155 yard shot into a green over a creek fall into the water when i typically hit this shot just right with my 7 iron.....the CSX felt like it was it well, but it didnt go anywhere......around the greens it was pretty good, 30 yards and in....but for some reason the 7 and 8 iron and 9 irons didnt fare so well for me.....IDK..was a bit shocked on the water ball......the regular CS seems to fly a little better off the mid and low irons for me....

the CSX was much longer, upwards of 12 yards over the prov1 i use quite often.  

[storm319]

On 8/18/2021 at 9:40 AM, cnosil said:

The ball changed shortly after the first batch was sold out; probably less than a year. Golf balls are generally distinguishable by the markings.  I think the kirklands went from a “performance” to “performance+” on the ball.   I’d go look at the MGS articles about the Kirkland balls and you should be able to Gary her the information you are seeking.  

Actually, the 3-piece TPU offering aka the K3 has always been stamped as the “Performance+“ (initial Nassau made 4-piece was the “Tour Performance” and the later 4-piece that was recalled was the “Performance One”). 

Conformance submissions to the USGA expire after 12 months so it appears that SM Global (Costco’s logistics partner) simply submitted the 2.0 with the same stamp since the original was expiring anyways. Unfortunately it makes it more confusing when you come across one on the course (the factory also seemed to have changed the font at one point before the 2.0 was released which convoluted it even more). 

[storm319]

On 8/24/2021 at 6:17 AM, Tsecor said:

the 1st batch of "kirklands" were large batch over over runs from another company....some claim they were Titleist and some claim they were another major manufacturer.  Regardless, that batch dried up and then Kirkland had to find other balls to keep the line going...they struck gold with that 1st batch of "extra" balls but now, they just throw their name on whatever crappy ball is available for them

It definitely wasn’t Titleist as all of their components are produced in Acushnet owned factories. Also, the Acushnet/Costco litigation was primarily focused on the marketing use of “Tour Performance” without having any actual representation on any professional tours. Basically Acushnet tried to flex by sending a cease and desist (which has worked with smaller DTCs in the past) and Costco called their bluff. All of that basically had nothing to do with the actual ball. 

The real grievance was with Taylormade. Taylormade is/was Nassau’s largest customer by far and the core/mantle of the Kirkland Tour Performance looked identical to the Taylormade 2016 Tour Preferred (timing with the initial Kirkland run lines up) which was more or less a throwback to the 2008 TP Red LDP with their modern 322 dimple pattern vs their legacy 360 LDP pattern that the Nassau factory primarily uses now. Nassau was also selling that same white label ball direct as the Nassau Quattro as well as to other DTCs (ex: Pearl Golf Pure Pro) although US marketing of those appears to have ended likely do to what ever legal resolution was reached. 

Costco going elsewhere for subsequent balls has not been their choice. If they could have continued to order that original Nassau ball, they definitely would have. 

[Tsecor]

9 hours ago, storm319 said:

It definitely wasn’t Titleist as all of their components are produced in Acushnet owned factories. Also, the Acushnet/Costco litigation was primarily focused on the marketing use of “Tour Performance” without having any actual representation on any professional tours. Basically Acushnet tried to flex by sending a cease and desist (which has worked with smaller DTCs in the past) and Costco called their bluff. All of that basically had nothing to do with the actual ball. 

The real grievance was with Taylormade. Taylormade is/was Nassau’s largest customer by far and the core/mantle of the Kirkland Tour Performance looked identical to the Taylormade 2016 Tour Preferred (timing with the initial Kirkland run lines up) which was more or less a throwback to the 2008 TP Red LDP with their modern 322 dimple pattern vs their legacy 360 LDP pattern that the Nassau factory primarily uses now. Nassau was also selling that same white label ball direct as the Nassau Quattro as well as to other DTCs (ex: Pearl Golf Pure Pro) although US marketing of those appears to have ended likely do to what ever legal resolution was reached. 

Costco going elsewhere for subsequent balls has not been their choice. If they could have continued to order that original Nassau ball, they definitely would have. 

I remember the Nassau Quattro balls.  Obviously some patents were infringed upon and Titleist obviously took up the fight for the industry as a whole. Many patents on dimple technology are shared across the spectrum (you can see how many companines use the same patents with a simple google search).

But the story of costco obtaining all the over run balls from whatever major manufacturer it was has been told many times over, especially right here at MGS. 

Its interesting to say the least. 

Great info! thanks

[storm319]

4 hours ago, Tsecor said:

I remember the Nassau Quattro balls.  Obviously some patents were infringed upon and Titleist obviously took up the fight for the industry as a whole. Many patents on dimple technology are shared across the spectrum (you can see how many companines use the same patents with a simple google search).

But the story of costco obtaining all the over run balls from whatever major manufacturer it was has been told many times over, especially right here at MGS. 

Its interesting to say the least. 

Great info! thanks

Dean’s overrun reference was not in relation to inventory that Nassau purchased from another company. Nassau themselves produced too many core/mantle assemblies for a client that ended up not needing them (cough Taylormade cough). In an effort to avoid scrapping that inventory, they slapped a cast thermoset urethane cover on them and used Taylormade’s legacy 360 LDP pattern (this was around the time that they were approached by Costco). Does Nassau have the physical capability to produce more of that ball? Yep, however they haven’t produced any since either due to a legal agreement or possibly an ultimatum from Taylormade. 

[Tsecor]

13 hours ago, storm319 said:

Dean’s overrun reference was not in relation to inventory that Nassau purchased from another company. Nassau themselves produced too many core/mantle assemblies for a client that ended up not needing them (cough Taylormade cough). In an effort to avoid scrapping that inventory, they slapped a cast thermoset urethane cover on them and used Taylormade’s legacy 360 LDP pattern (this was around the time that they were approached by Costco). Does Nassau have the physical capability to produce more of that ball? Yep, however they haven’t produced any since either due to a legal agreement or possibly an ultimatum from Taylormade. 

gotcha..... who does TM get their cores from typically? 

[JohnSmalls]

25 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

gotcha..... who does TM get their cores from typically? 

Going from memory here, someone please corroborate or correct, they are primarily using Foremost to produce their cores

[storm319]

5 hours ago, JohnSmalls said:

Going from memory here, someone please corroborate or correct, they are primarily using Foremost to produce their cores

Both Nassau and Foremost produce the core/mantle assemblies for their urethane models at the moment with cover assembly/finishing/stamping/QA/packaging happening in TMs South Carolina facility (ionomer models are 100% outsourced to Foremost and some unknown Chinese factories).

Core/mantle production was exclusively Nassau until recently where they started moving some capacity over to Foremost. Tony Covey has mentioned multiple times that they are moving everything to Foremost (may be weaning off Nassau), but I am still seeing both at retail (box states core/mantle country of origin, Korea = Nassau / Taiwan = Foremost).

[Tsecor]

The MGS guys need to add LEFT DOT to this test.....OMG......forget left dash......LEFT DOT IS THE FUTURE...this ball is explosive and a better all around ball than the left dash. 

[BMart519]

7 hours ago, Tsecor said:

The MGS guys need to add LEFT DOT to this test.....OMG......forget left dash......LEFT DOT IS THE FUTURE...this ball is explosive and a better all around ball than the left dash. 

That's just going to make it even harder to find.  Gotta keep it quiet so you can actually order some before they sell out. 

[PMookie]

I can pretty much confirm that Left Dash will not be my ball going forward. It has not been able to keep up with Pro V1X, Snell MTB Black, and some other balls I’m testing for a manufacturer. It’s just too low spin off driver for me, and even though it’s LONG off my irons, again, the lack of spin kills me. I haven’t found it to be all that long off driver.

I bought a 1/2 dozen Z-Star this past weekend in the pro shop, so those will go head-to-head with V1X, then TP5X will get into the mix. Looks like we’ll have rain for the rest of the week, so it might be a bit before I can finish testing.

[Tsecor]

10 hours ago, PMookie said:

I can pretty much confirm that Left Dash will not be my ball going forward. It has not been able to keep up with Pro V1X, Snell MTB Black, and some other balls I’m testing for a manufacturer. It’s just too low spin off driver for me, and even though it’s LONG off my irons, again, the lack of spin kills me. I haven’t found it to be all that long off driver.

I bought a 1/2 dozen Z-Star this past weekend in the pro shop, so those will go head-to-head with V1X, then TP5X will get into the mix. Looks like we’ll have rain for the rest of the week, so it might be a bit before I can finish testing.

TP5x is so much better than the 2019 version but its kinda boring to me....i like it but it doesnt fly super long off the driver or irons or check up more than any other ball....its a nice ball and a big improvement from 2019 but not my gamer.

After testing 8 different balls all summer, the top 3 for my game are

CSX
left dot (very close 2nd, just needs a touch more spin 50 yards and in)
prov1.

TP5/TP5X/ CS/ BXS/ AVX all fall into the "other" category for me as they are all ok, but leave something on the table that i really need. Left dot made my top 3 because of the length and trajectory and feel. The spin could be slightly better on short irons....if it had the spin of the CSX on 8-pw, it would be my gamer. 

[tjyorke]

I

am still trying to figure this out , soft balls are slow but low spin, Foes this mean an iron into a heavy wind would be far better with a chrome soft over a pro v x? 

[GregGarner]

19 minutes ago, tjyorke said:

I

am still trying to figure this out , soft balls are slow but low spin, Foes this mean an iron into a heavy wind would be far better with a chrome soft over a pro v x? 

depends on how you deliver the club - in VERY broad brushstrokes, yes. Something that is lower spin off the irons will generally fare better into the wind than something higher spin, assuming you mean in terms of distance lost (the lower-spinning option will lose less distance into the wind than the higher-spinning option)