2021 MGS Ball Test

[GregGarner]

40 minutes ago, cnosil said:

What aspect of the ball do you want to test, spin really isn't relevant and ball speed differences would be very slight.  Since feel is subjective, how do you measure it in a way that means the same thing to everyone?  In my opinion, with putting the club is more significant than the ball.  

seconded. On a launch monitor, there is no discernable difference between different golf balls. To make matters worse, if you put headphones on, the 'feel' aspect is almost completely negated. (something about fluid dynamics, your hole-side ear, and your brain interpreting sound as feel) - and that's before we get into what kind of putter you're using.

If you wanted to take, say, a Scotty Cameron GSS Newport 2 and use it (and only it) to roll some putts and capture the sound of the face striking the ball, you could at least get an idea of the differences in the covers of the ball, but as soon as you change putters, that interaction changes. (Makes me think of when the White Hots first came out along with the Rule 35 golf balls and all the marketing hype about how the insert was the exact same material as the ball to give you unparalleled feel, etc etc) 

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

Bridgestone XS not so good 🫣

[FightingScot82]

On 7/12/2021 at 3:12 PM, downlowkey said:

Yep - I believe Tony said the Kirkland has by far been the “spinniest” at low speed driver. Possibly a good thing for certain delivery tendencies and awful for others. I’m so very appreciative that MGS is doing this test. It is exactly why they get my monthly donations.

My only question is - they said its for a niche segment of golfers - who would want max driver spin? 

[cnosil]

19 minutes ago, FightingScot82 said:

My only question is - they said its for a niche segment of golfers - who would want max driver spin? 

I do fairly well with the Kirkland.  My main problem with driver is too little spin so balls that are a little more spinny off the tee are beneficial to my game.  We joke about it at HQ but a few years ago I was kicked out of the driver test because there were drivers I just couldn’t spin enough to get reasonable results. 

[chisag]

18 minutes ago, FightingScot82 said:

My only question is - they said its for a niche segment of golfers - who would want max driver spin? 

 

... Anyone with a slower swing speed that needs distance. My 80yr old playing pard hits it far for his age, maybe 200-225 and occasionally a little longer. He needs all the spin he can get to keep the ball in the air longer. He will never spin it enough to create ballooning so the more spin from the golf ball the better. 

[FightingScot82]

18 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Anyone with a slower swing speed that needs distance. My 80yr old playing pard hits it far for his age, maybe 200-225 and occasionally a little longer. He needs all the spin he can get to keep the ball in the air longer. He will never spin it enough to create ballooning so the more spin from the golf ball the better. 

Okay this makes sense. I have a higher swing speed and higher spin. I occasionally will demolish a Kirkland right down the pipe but too often it balloons and any half-decent wind turns it into a 250 yard hook or slice that's 100 yards off the fairway. Just wish there was a more appropriate ball I could buy on demand (in store) for that price. Even with inflation they're $27 and change in PA for 2 dozen.

[chisag]

1 minute ago, FightingScot82 said:

Okay this makes sense. I have a higher swing speed and higher spin. I occasionally will demolish a Kirkland right down the pipe but too often it balloons and any half-decent wind turns it into a 250 yard hook or slice that's 100 yards off the fairway. Just wish there was a more appropriate ball I could buy on demand (in store) for that price. Even with inflation they're $27 and change in PA for 2 dozen.

 

... Don't we all!  But too much spin for me too. That said I am quite happy with the Maxfli Tour at 4 dozen for $104.98 in the cube. 

[ejgaudette]

Just now, chisag said:

 

... Don't we all!  But too much spin for me too. That said I am quite happy with the Maxfli Tour at 4 dozen for $104.98 in the cube. 

You type to fast I was saying the same exact thing

[funkyjudge]

17 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Anyone with a slower swing speed that needs distance. My 80yr old playing pard hits it far for his age, maybe 200-225 and occasionally a little longer. He needs all the spin he can get to keep the ball in the air longer. He will never spin it enough to create ballooning so the more spin from the golf ball the better. 

Winner, winner, chicken dinner!  When I am doing a driver fitting, I look for ideal average driver backspin numbers something like this:

60-70 MPH clubhead speed — 3,500 RPM or greater

70-80 MPH clubhead speed — at least 3,000 RPM

85 MPH clubhead speed — at least 2,750 to 3,000 RPM

90 MPH — 2,500 to 2,700 RPM

95 MPH — 2,350 to 2,500 RPM

100 MPH — 2,150 to 2,300 RPM

110 MPH — 2,000 RPM is fine (1,900 wont hurt, but 2,150 or even 2,200 RPM is usually acceptable at this speed)

more than 110-115 MPH — 1,700 - 1800 RPM is usually plenty of backspin for these guys

I’ve seen slower-swinging senior and female golfers who benefit from generating as much as 4,000 - 4,400 RPM of backspin with the driver.  If the ball spins more and contributes to this, all the better.  One slower swinging male golfer that I fit about two months ago was shocked when I asked if I could change balls to a lower-compression, higher-spinning ball during the fitting (he was hitting a ProV1x). With a 70 compression, high spin ball, he got about 10 extra yards of carry, and with a similar 55 compression ball, he got 12 to 14 extra yards. With the softer, higher-spin balls plus a 12* loft on his new driver, he reported to me last week that he’s hitting his driver more than 220 yards for the first time in many years.  He’s not that old - only about 60 - but due to physical limitations and injuries that he has suffered over the last few years, his driver clubhead speed had dropped from about 90-95 MPH in his 40s and early 50s to less than 80 MPH (average of 77-78 MPH).  FWIW, the ball that he is now using is the Titleist Tour Soft.

[Thin2win]

On the Kirkland, I had my wife try them out, she is in the 70mph ss category, and it gave her almost 10y more carry and 12y more total then a ProV1. Which is a noticeable percentage change. So, just to echo the above, it definitely fits some golfers in a great way. Just probably not those with higher swing speeds.

[JohnnyCallaway]

22 hours ago, funkyjudge said:

Winner, winner, chicken dinner!  When I am doing a driver fitting, I look for ideal average driver backspin numbers something like this:

60-70 MPH clubhead speed — 3,500 RPM or greater

70-80 MPH clubhead speed — at least 3,000 RPM

85 MPH clubhead speed — at least 2,750 to 3,000 RPM

90 MPH — 2,500 to 2,700 RPM

95 MPH — 2,350 to 2,500 RPM

100 MPH — 2,150 to 2,300 RPM

110 MPH — 2,000 RPM is fine (1,900 wont hurt, but 2,150 or even 2,200 RPM is usually acceptable at this speed)

more than 110-115 MPH — 1,700 - 1800 RPM is usually plenty of backspin for these guys

I’ve seen slower-swinging senior and female golfers who benefit from generating as much as 4,000 - 4,400 RPM of backspin with the driver.  If the ball spins more and contributes to this, all the better.  One slower swinging male golfer that I fit about two months ago was shocked when I asked if I could change balls to a lower-compression, higher-spinning ball during the fitting (he was hitting a ProV1x). With a 70 compression, high spin ball, he got about 10 extra yards of carry, and with a similar 55 compression ball, he got 12 to 14 extra yards. With the softer, higher-spin balls plus a 12* loft on his new driver, he reported to me last week that he’s hitting his driver more than 220 yards for the first time in many years.  He’s not that old - only about 60 - but due to physical limitations and injuries that he has suffered over the last few years, his driver clubhead speed had dropped from about 90-95 MPH in his 40s and early 50s to less than 80 MPH (average of 77-78 MPH).  FWIW, the ball that he is now using is the Titleist Tour Soft.

This is actually a really good table for the consumer although me personally would couple 110+ in the same bucket. On TOUR anything under 2000RPMs gets tossed quickly but thats TOUR and the needs live in a different world. Great post here. 

[funkyjudge]

JohnnyCallaway - you are (partially) correct, but there are Tour players (e.g. - Bubba Watson, Dustin Johnson, Gary Woodland, and definitely Bryson DeChambeau) who strive for. sub-2,000 RPM backspin numbers with their drivers. Bubba has always targeted “17 plus 17” (17* launch angle + 1,700 RPM) with the driver. This is because he “hits up on the ball” (also known as “positive angle of attack”).

As most here know, I worked on both the PGA Tour and Champions Tour, plus at several majors and FedEx Cup events from the late 1990s to as recently as 2019, and I keep in touch with my fellow clubfitting professionals who worked with me in the OEM equipment and shaft equipment trailers on those tours. Some of the tour pros that I worked with include: Woodland, Matt Kuchar, Padraig Harrington, Tony Finau (another guy who prefers sub-2,000 RPM of backspin with his driver), as well as quite a few WLD guys (I won’t even get into what numbers  the long drive guys shoot for, as they are generally freaks of nature with clubhead speeds approaching 150 - 155 MPH).

In the clubfitting work that I continue to do, I see golfers that range from 60 MPH swinging seniors and ladies to a fair number of area PGA club pros and instructors in addition to plus-handicappers with clubhead speeds in the low-mid 120s. Some of these high clubhead speed guys actually benefit from getting into equipment and using a ball that help them achieve backspin numbers below 2,000 RPM. Others in this range need 2,200 to 2,500 RPM +/- to help them keep the ball in the air longer. It is all a matter of how they deliver the clubhead to the ball (good upward angle of attack = lower spin required; flat or, God-forbid, slightly downward AOA = more backspin needed).

Edited October 12, 2022 by funkyjudge

[funkyjudge]

27 minutes ago, JohnnyCallaway said:

This is actually a really good table for the consumer although me personally would couple 110+ in the same bucket. On TOUR anything under 2000RPMs gets tossed quickly but thats TOUR and the needs live in a different world. Great post here. 

BTW, I should have specified in that impromptu clubhead speed / backspin table that those backspin numbers were based on having a proper slightly-upward angle of attack with the driver. A level AOA may necessitate a few hundred more RPM of backspin, and hitting down on the ball with the driver (a horrible thing) will almost always generate more backspin than a golfer wants or needs, anyway.

[highdraw_osu]

Not to derail a convo but any discussion on them re-doing the ball test in 2023 or if/how they will change in the future?  This was really an awesome data set and led me to the Maxfli Tour which I have really enjoyed.  Would love to see them update periodically and include a few more ionomer/surlyn category as well as a "roughed up" range ball not a clean one.  

[chisag]

5 minutes ago, highdraw_osu said:

Not to derail a convo but any discussion on them re-doing the ball test in 2023 or if/how they will change in the future?  This was really an awesome data set and led me to the Maxfli Tour which I have really enjoyed.  Would love to see them update periodically and include a few more ionomer/surlyn category as well as a "roughed up" range ball not a clean one.  

 

... I don't know how they do it to be honest. Sitting in front of an Iron Byron, teeing up balls for hours and hours day after day and charting the results is like working on an assembly line for GM. I could easily see taking a year off but the MGS crew seem to do it every year and I know everyone on the forum is extremely grateful for the time and effort. 

[funkyjudge]

27 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... I don't know how they do it to be honest. Sitting in front of an Iron Byron, teeing up balls for hours and hours day after day and charting the results is like working on an assembly line for GM. I could easily see taking a year off but the MGS crew seem to do it every year and I know everyone on the forum is extremely grateful for the time and effort. 

Have you ever seen Tony Covey’s and Harry Nodwell’s comments on the process. That may be the final straw that drove Harry to seek “greener pastures” (joking, maybe, but there could be a small thread of truth to it)!

[TheWiseguy]

On 7/8/2021 at 9:46 PM, TBT said:

Which ball performs best with a massive hangover

It has to be a ball cheap enough to loose and stil performs decent numbers. I've played a new ball Stripe golf modell No.1 recently. Great spinn and still great length!

Edited December 25, 2022 by TheWiseguy

[GregGarner]

On 12/25/2022 at 2:31 AM, TheWiseguy said:

It has to be a ball cheap enough to loose and stil performs decent numbers. I've played a new ball Stripe golf modell No.1 recently. Great spinn and still great length!

That's how I feel about the Maxfli balls here in the States! I checked out the Stripe ball you mentioned. Is the No. 1 model similar to a ProV1x or a Vice Pro Plus?

[TheWiseguy]

20 hours ago, GregGarner said:

That's how I feel about the Maxfli balls here in the States! I checked out the Stripe ball you mentioned. Is the No. 1 model similar to a ProV1x or a Vice Pro Plus?

Not 100% sure about the difference between thoose two but No.1 is a 4-piece construction with a little bit more compression. Same as prov1x.
 

Stripe Will be in the US soon i believe. 

[silver & black]

Convince me why I should buy $50.00 a dozen balls instead of balls from 'Lost Golf Balls'.