2021 MGS Ball Test

[Thin2win]

22 minutes ago, TheProfessor02 said:

At what point would you consider fitting the ball to your play? I understand that different club shafts can produce different ball trajectory and spin rates and that not all balls play the same. With that said is a constant balancing act or is there a certain point where you lock in a shaft and fine tune with the ball or vice versa? 

It is much easier to change your spin by 100's of rpm using different balls then different shafts. So much easier to tune for that. Finding a shaft that you constantly square up to the ball at impact is pretty important however. I'd find a shaft/club head that you hit square, then find the ball that gets you spin numbers you are looking for. 

[Thin2win]

1 hour ago, fixyurdivot said:

I noting that a number of you are focused on wanting lower spin balls with driver.  During my recent fitting, my G410P with the Alta CB S averaged 3642 rpm and with the KBS Tour (my current shaft) averaged 2852 rpm.  I'm curious how my driver spin numbers compare to yours and whether a lower spin ball is something I should consider? 

I'm always struggling to get above 2k spin with a driver, so I go the other direction. But generally speaking in terms of shear distance, 17° launch at 1700 rpm will fly the ball the furthest. if you launch it lower, you want more spin, and higher(!?) less spin. that said, you lose a lot of control with those numbers. I think for a control /distance balance, college players try to get around 2200 rpm of backspin, tour pros actual average higher, like 2700 so they are leaving distance on the table, but they hit it far enough that control is more important i guess. 

Slower swing speeds can benefit from more spin to help keep the ball in the air longer, so for some 3k+ would probably be ideal. But for the most part, somewhere around 2500 for us amateur's is probably about right. Again, very generally speaking, using what little I know

[TheProfessor02]

16 minutes ago, Thin2win said:

It is much easier to change your spin by 100's of rpm using different balls then different shafts. So much easier to tune for that. Finding a shaft that you constantly square up to the ball at impact is pretty important however. I'd find a shaft/club head that you hit square, then find the ball that gets you spin numbers you are looking for. 

That's pretty much what I figured. The same way you would use the larger dials on a microscope to tune your focus for what you need then the smaller dials to really hone in and make it sharp. In this scenario the club head and shaft get you in the ball park then the golf ball can be used to find the particular window you want to be in for flight and backspin. 

[GregGarner]

13 minutes ago, Thin2win said:

I'm always struggling to get above 2k spin with a driver, so I go the other direction. But generally speaking in terms of shear distance, 17° launch at 1700 rpm will fly the ball the furthest. if you launch it lower, you want more spin, and higher(!?) less spin. that said, you lose a lot of control with those numbers. I think for a control /distance balance, college players try to get around 2200 rpm of backspin, tour pros actual average higher, like 2700 so they are leaving distance on the table, but they hit it far enough that control is more important i guess. 

Slower swing speeds can benefit from more spin to help keep the ball in the air longer, so for some 3k+ would probably be ideal. But for the most part, somewhere around 2500 for us amateur's is probably about right. Again, very generally speaking, using what little I know

This might be helpful (especially as you're sifting through the ball data and then testing on your own)

[fixyurdivot]

3 hours ago, greggarner said:

I'm not the first to say it, but hopefully not the last: these data are a starting point for narrowing your search. NOBODY should use these data to buy 6 dozen of something, sight-unseen...

True, but we're humans, worse yet men, and are forever thinking that silver bullet, missing link, The Holy Grail, is but one purchase away .

One positive note is that it appears we still have a moderate threshold between the increasing ball speeds exceeding the limits of the ball... your particular driver maybe not so much .  I love these type videos and hope you find it entertaining.

 

[jroot327]

1 hour ago, fixyurdivot said:

I noting that a number of you are focused on wanting lower spin balls with driver.  During my recent fitting, my G410P with the Alta CB S averaged 3642 rpm and with the KBS Tour (my current shaft) averaged 2852 rpm.  I'm curious how my driver spin numbers compare to yours and whether a lower spin ball is something I should consider? 

 

38 minutes ago, Thin2win said:

I'm always struggling to get above 2k spin with a driver, so I go the other direction. But generally speaking in terms of shear distance, 17° launch at 1700 rpm will fly the ball the furthest. if you launch it lower, you want more spin, and higher(!?) less spin. that said, you lose a lot of control with those numbers. I think for a control /distance balance, college players try to get around 2200 rpm of backspin, tour pros actual average higher, like 2700 so they are leaving distance on the table, but they hit it far enough that control is more important i guess. 

Slower swing speeds can benefit from more spin to help keep the ball in the air longer, so for some 3k+ would probably be ideal. But for the most part, somewhere around 2500 for us amateur's is probably about right. Again, very generally speaking, using what little I know

@fixyurdivot I honestly haven't hit my current set-up on a simulator to get spin numbers(I know, I know, get fitted which I did at a Callaway demo day, but w/o a launch monitor). What I do know is that I hit a mid-launch cut and am averaging just over 290 this season (according to my shotscope data). My miss tends to be a block fade/slice and I figure the spin I'm trying to take off is some side spin, and might even get more roll out with a bit lower backspin. So all I'm doing is using my experience with my ball flight on my current gamer and comparing the numbers of other balls to that one within my swing speed so I can test on the course and see if I get any kind of noticeable change. I'm hoping that will be a straighter and/or longer shot with my driver, without losing anything (or even getting better) around the greens. Based on my shot shape, I assume I'm fairly high spin. I like tinkering with things here and there so I figure it's worth a shot. 

As @Thin2winpointed out there are alot of variables and certain times you want to take spin off or add it. He seems to know way more about spin windows than I do so I'd look at what he said but, just from my experience I'd just say to make sure you can control the spin if you're going to add it.

[Thin2win]

Oh sure, they day after the ball test comes out Vice launches a  "fused" urethane cover ball @ $22/ dozen....

[TBT]

On 8/17/2021 at 8:51 AM, fixyurdivot said:

Am I the only one who thinks course lakes and ranges are going to have a bump in Kirkland ball inventory?

There is always going to be a market for cheap golf balls, the average weekend hacker loses six or seven balls around cares more about cost than performance, Not to mention there’s still a lot of people that heard all the buzz about the Kirkland bowls based on their first generation and don’t even realize that the ball has changed.

[fixyurdivot]

3 minutes ago, TBT said:

There is always going to be a market for cheap golf balls, the average weekend hacker loses six or seven balls around cares more about cost than performance, Not to mention there’s still a lot of people that heard all the buzz about the Kirkland bowls based on their first generation and don’t even realize that the ball has changed.

True.  I remember throwing found Kirkland's back into their hiding spots before joining MGS and not knowing anything about them. Subsequently, one of the Canadians in our winter group raved about them and I tried a few. Anyone know when the recipe changed and whether we (Ball Lab) has any old vs. new performance data?  Further, is there a way to determine which is which?

[cnosil]

17 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

True.  I remember throwing found Kirkland's back into their hiding spots before joining MGS and not knowing anything about them. Subsequently, one of the Canadians in our winter group raved about them and I tried a few. Anyone know when the recipe changed and whether we (Ball Lab) has any old vs. new performance data?  Further, is there a way to determine which is which?

The ball changed shortly after the first batch was sold out; probably less than a year. Golf balls are generally distinguishable by the markings.  I think the kirklands went from a “performance” to “performance+” on the ball.   I’d go look at the MGS articles about the Kirkland balls and you should be able to Gary her the information you are seeking.  

[fixyurdivot]

2 minutes ago, cnosil said:

The ball changed shortly after the first batch was sold out; probably less than a year. Golf balls are generally distinguishable by the markings.  I think the kirklands went from a “performance” to “performance+” on the ball.   I’d go look at the MGS articles about the Kirkland balls and you should be able to Gary her the information you are seeking.  

Sounds like they should have been named Performance - .

[cnosil]

Just now, fixyurdivot said:

Sounds like they should have been named Performance - .

The first iteration after the original I would agree since the cover shredded.   I don’t think there is really much wrong with the newer model, you just have to make sure that the characteristics fit into your needs.   High spin off the driver isn’t bad if you struggle to generate spin.   

[fixyurdivot]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

The first iteration after the original I would agree since the cover shredded.   I don’t think there is really much wrong with the newer model, you just have to make sure that the characteristics fit into your needs.   High spin off the driver isn’t bad if you struggle to generate spin.   

I have pretty average spin numbers throughout the bag.  What caught my eye is the loss of distance on both driver and 8i.  It was more than I would have guessed.  I've had several really good rounds using them but, at 60, distance (not giving up any) starts becoming important.

[cnosil]

22 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

I have pretty average spin numbers throughout the bag.  What caught my eye is the loss of distance on both driver and 8i.  It was more than I would have guessed.  I've had several really good rounds using them but, at 60, distance (not giving up any) starts becoming important.

I put one in play occasionally; when ball striking isn’t that good, and am happy with performance.   My friends give them to me when they find them.   

[TBT]

2 hours ago, cnosil said:

The ball changed shortly after the first batch was sold out; probably less than a year. Golf balls are generally distinguishable by the markings.  I think the kirklands went from a “performance” to “performance+” on the ball.   I’d go look at the MGS articles about the Kirkland balls and you should be able to Gary her the information you are seeking.  

Weren’t they sued for patent infringement by Achusnet for violating Pro V1’s patent?

[cnosil]

14 minutes ago, TBT said:

Weren’t they sued for patent infringement by Achusnet for violating Pro V1’s patent?

Probably.  There are lawsuits in the golf equipment space regularly.   From what I remember it was actually a TM ball design;  probably wrong but that is what is in my head right now.  

[Quigleyd]

Lots of info to sift through here.. Some interesting info but honestly nothing that unexpected. 

[RyanJohnson_Official]

Anyone else surprised by the performance of the Wilson Staff Model? I have really wanted to try them out but am wary of the spin off the tee. 

I recently switched to the Titleist Tour Speed and shot a PB 76 and it felt super straight! Must have been lower spin! But then I returned to my home course and couldnt hold a single green! IS there any realistic way to reduce spin using driver/shaft combo? Or is the best bet to find something in the middle?

[Quigleyd]

15 minutes ago, RyanJohnson_Official said:

Anyone else surprised by the performance of the Wilson Staff Model? I have really wanted to try them out but am wary of the spin off the tee. 

I recently switched to the Titleist Tour Speed and shot a PB 76 and it felt super straight! Must have been lower spin! But then I returned to my home course and couldnt hold a single green! IS there any realistic way to reduce spin using driver/shaft combo? Or is the best bet to find something in the middle?

The problem with wilson has never really been their actual products. its that they have horribly inconsistent and confusing marketing. They make bad decision after bad decision. The ball is solid. I would avoid the weird raw ball though. 

[SmoothG]

I've been playing the TP5.  I hit the X a little longer but it feels slightly firmer than I'd like.  I love everything about the TP5 except the price.  I've been looking for something cheaper without sacrificing too much.  After the '19 test and this one as well I'm thinking Maxfli might just be the ticket.  I know feel is subjective but does anyone have an opinion of the Maxfli Tour & X feel compared to the TP5/X?  Thanks