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Short vs. Long


Short or Long?  

19 members have voted

  1. 1. Are you more frequently short or long?

    • Short
      18
    • Long
      1
  2. 2. Which shot are you most often short or long?

    • Approaches
      16
    • Wedges/Pitches
      2
    • Putting
      1
  3. 3. Which short or long condition do you think most adversely affects your scoring?

    • Approaches
      12
    • Wedges/Pitches
      4
    • Putting
      3


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I have recently started keeping track of approaches, chips, and putts that are short vs. long.  This far, I am short a little more than 76% of the time collectively, and with approaches and chips making up almost 60% of that.  I've been doing a much better job getting more putts past the hole (never up, never in rule).  As some may recall in other threads, I have recently been clubbing down in attempt to resolve the shorts on approaches and pitch/wedge shots but I think I'm subconsciously also aware of the added club length and not committing to a full shot 😐. On the range, I feel like I have pretty solid distance control 8i up, but this does not seem to translate to play.  

I'd be curious to hear what your typical distance control is and whether you are short or long more of the time.  Also, what have you been working on to improve this.  I'm considering changing back to an 8i bump and run vs. using my 56/12 for those 20 yard and closer chips.  It's what I previously used and go away from it when I added the additional wedge.

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We have a few plus handicappers here. Other than them anyone who says they are more frequently long with their approach shots needs to take a super long, hard look in the mirror. 🙂

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Taylor Made Sim2  10.5 (Opened 1 click) Ventus Blue 5  R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 6-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

Edison Wedges 54 and 59 KBS Tour Graphite 80's

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Tour Exotics 3 wood is in the bag because we are allowed 14 clubs.  It's a great club for pulling balls out of the water or from bushes - you never want to put your hand into anything in Florida unless you are absolutely certain that it's safe.  There are rare wind conditions when I might hit it off the tee on a few holes that I play.  

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Interested in how you track this as I have been considering doing this as well, and have been thinking about how exactly to track it. I feel like I’m always short,but I want to see it so it can sink in. 
 

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Arccos does a wonderful job at tracking pretty much every stat you could want.  It’s worth the $ in my opinion.  And it had helped me improve enormously.

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I just got plain tired of always coming up short, so I got "real" about my distance with the clubs, ego set aside (not easy). Also accepted my age as a factor. And came to the realization that the number on the bottom doesn't matter, getting close to the hole does. So when in doubt I club up to be sure. I can say that this season I'm doing much better at getting hole high, sometimes long which is better for my game in the long run.

Chris

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2 hours ago, revkev said:

We have a few plus handicappers here. Other than them anyone who says they are more frequently long with their approach shots needs to take a super long, hard look in the mirror. 🙂

I am a mid hc (but hope to be single digit w/in the year) and my approaches aren't short generally unless I'm between clubs and mishit it, but I also have the tendency to take too much club and be long. However, I'm 56 and learned after many years that the purpose of irons is to hit them a certain distance as opposed to seeing how far I can hit them. If I posted my iron distances I expect many would think I am a short hitter, but it's just that I swing at 80% plus I have irons with high lofts because I want to hit the ball high. 

My nephew is a single digit hc'er and plays strong gi irons which honestly I don't understand. For example his 8 iron and my 5 iron go the same distance, yet I doubt he can out drive me by more than 30-35 yards consistently.

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7 hours ago, Cblade said:

I am a mid hc (but hope to be single digit w/in the year) and my approaches aren't short generally unless I'm between clubs and mishit it, but I also have the tendency to take too much club and be long. However, I'm 56 and learned after many years that the purpose of irons is to hit them a certain distance as opposed to seeing how far I can hit them. If I posted my iron distances I expect many would think I am a short hitter, but it's just that I swing at 80% plus I have irons with high lofts because I want to hit the ball high. 

My nephew is a single digit hc'er and plays strong gi irons which honestly I don't understand. For example his 8 iron and my 5 iron go the same distance, yet I doubt he can out drive me by more than 30-35 yards consistently.

Do you use a tracking device like Shotscope or ARCCOS?

 

Taylor Made Sim2  10.5 (Opened 1 click) Ventus Blue 5  R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 6-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

Edison Wedges 54 and 59 KBS Tour Graphite 80's

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Tour Exotics 3 wood is in the bag because we are allowed 14 clubs.  It's a great club for pulling balls out of the water or from bushes - you never want to put your hand into anything in Florida unless you are absolutely certain that it's safe.  There are rare wind conditions when I might hit it off the tee on a few holes that I play.  

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9 hours ago, 2puttbogey said:

Interested in how you track this as I have been considering doing this as well, and have been thinking about how exactly to track it. I feel like I’m always short,but I want to see it so it can sink in. 
 


Great question 

A simple way and a more complicated one. The simple way is put a mark on a scorecard for a while that indicates short/long - when I was younger I had this entire code thing to denote right/left draw/fade, push/pull as well.

 

You don’t have to do this for every round, 5-10 will give you a good pattern of where your misses lie.

 

A bit more complicated most of the shot tracking devices have supplemental data in the base. Often you can only access what you need on a laptop so you will have to check it there. The issue is that it’s presuming you’ve accurately captured the pin all the time.

 

Trying to always take enough club is an admirable goal - likewise getting speed right when putting and chipping is huge. 
 

This is an important thread. I still would suggest that anyone who thinks he’s missing long more than short without actually tracking it for a period of time is fooling himself.  

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Taylor Made Sim2  10.5 (Opened 1 click) Ventus Blue 5  R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 6-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

Edison Wedges 54 and 59 KBS Tour Graphite 80's

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Tour Exotics 3 wood is in the bag because we are allowed 14 clubs.  It's a great club for pulling balls out of the water or from bushes - you never want to put your hand into anything in Florida unless you are absolutely certain that it's safe.  There are rare wind conditions when I might hit it off the tee on a few holes that I play.  

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I think you need to do more analysis than just long or short; same with left and right.  Ideally you should have as many long shots as you do short.  No one hits shots the exact same distance and the goal should be to center the pattern over your target.  If the majority of your shots are short or long then you should make adjustments.  This applies to approach, wedges, and putting.  

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For me. being short on the approach shots often better than being too long.  Especially those missed the line to either side of the target .

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11 hours ago, 2puttbogey said:

Interested in how you track this as I have been considering doing this as well, and have been thinking about how exactly to track it. I feel like I’m always short,but I want to see it so it can sink in. 
 

I've just been using a code system on the scorecard and running numbers.  I wish I had gathered more data before switching to the "more club" strategy but, even having done this, I'm amazed how often I'm still short... better, but short.  I do believe much of this is me not committing to that lower lofted club.  The numerous range sessions to establish yardages (avg & sd) are pretty consistent (will have to do this all over with the new irons).  I think I just need to start flying past flags more often and then dial it back.

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:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

 

 

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17 minutes ago, release said:

For me. being short on the approach shots often better than being too long.  Especially those missed the line to either side of the target .

Based on that response it sounds like you are picking bad targets.   

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I'm short many times on approach shots, mostly because I'm hitting my maximum distance clubs just to get to many greens in regulation anyway.  On holes where I'm hitting a reasonable club into the green, I am usually on the green but short of the pin; not a bad spot as our our greens are firm and I get lots of rollout.

Similarly, wedges and pitch shots are closer but still a little short; usually in a very makable range which is what we are trying to accomplish... right?.

I rarely leave putts short except when lagging from long distance.  

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Sometimes missing short is needed to not get into trouble long and vice versa going long is better than short.

I don’t track if I’m long or short. I look at it js did i accomplish the goal of leaving myself where I’m able to minimize the damage if I don’t hit my intended target 

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2 hours ago, revkev said:

Do you use a tracking device like Shotscope or ARCCOS?

 

 

No I don't. But I can assure you that I swing well within myself with my irons for accuracy. I can reach over 110 with my driver and the 9 iron in my old set I only planned on hitting 142 yards. My "new" iron set DCI 990B are at least a half club shorter my 9 iron should go 136 with and easy swing. From what I've seen the higher h.c.'s trying to hit their 9 iron 165 more or less.

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32 minutes ago, Cblade said:

 

No I don't. But I can assure you that I swing well within myself with my irons for accuracy. I can reach over 110 with my driver and the 9 iron in my old set I only planned on hitting 142 yards. My "new" iron set DCI 990B are at least a half club shorter my 9 iron should go 136 with and easy swing. From what I've seen the higher h.c.'s trying to hit their 9 iron 165 more or less.

You're a rarity then - I think though that it is important not to make statements based on exceptions.  It's like saying, "Well I hit a draw.  Why would anyone want a "draw" driver when we all know that 80 percent of golfers struggle with a slice."  So while you may be the extremely rare exception who takes enough club into the green and almost always hits you approach shot well enough to get flag high it remains a true reality that most don't, myself included and I'm a fairly accomplished golfer.

 

I'd highly recommend that you do find a shot tracking program of some sort.  You might be surprised at what you learn.  For example I used to game wedges at even 4 degree gaps because that was the prevailing wisdom, Peltz said it, SCOR (my wedge brand) recommended it for me, really just about anything that you read said, Do this!  Then I got ShotScope which revealed that my 56 degree wedge was next to worthless.  I rarely if ever hit it full and when I used it around the green I was not nearly as effective as I was with the 52 and the 60.  I ended up replacing the club with something else almost as useless but at least by having it out of the bag I wasn't tempted to use it.  My handicap index dropped because I consistently got the 52 closer to the hole.  Fast forward to this season.  I replaced my SCOR wedges with an Edison 59 and 53 bent to 54 (they only come in odd numbers.)  I'm a bit more accurate and consistent with those wedges on full shots but am no where near as effective chipping with the 54 as I was with the 52.  So....... I've taken the useless 3 wood out of the bag - something that I've needed to do for a while and put the 52 back in.  If it ever stops raining in Florida I will expect that my chipping will go back to where it was and my handicap will head back down again after trending up for a while.

 

Having a good tracking system may be a great way to discover some holes in your game that are simple to fix either through an equipment change, practice, a lesson or a change in strategy.  I've learned by now that there have been things that I thought about my game that just weren't true based on the numbers - don't get me started on hybrids. 🙂

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Taylor Made Sim2  10.5 (Opened 1 click) Ventus Blue 5  R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 6-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

Edison Wedges 54 and 59 KBS Tour Graphite 80's

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Tour Exotics 3 wood is in the bag because we are allowed 14 clubs.  It's a great club for pulling balls out of the water or from bushes - you never want to put your hand into anything in Florida unless you are absolutely certain that it's safe.  There are rare wind conditions when I might hit it off the tee on a few holes that I play.  

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@revkev I am seeing a trend in my game too.  Every time I pull the 52° I lose a stroke.  Going to leave it on the pier tomorrow and Sunday.  So… I’ll go from 48° to 58°… not sure Bob would approve.  But I don’t use the 52° ever, and when I do it is bad.  So to curb the temptation to use it and destroy a round, it’s staying home forever.

 

I think I’m going to look at going 48°, 54°, 60°… but the 58° has been seeing all of the work inside 100 for the past few months, and it is working well, unless I need to go under a tree, then it’s a 5-7 iron chip and run.

 

Not sure what to do with the wedges… 

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So interestingly I've found myself longer far more than shorter this season. Some weight training/daily yoga/weight loss while I was working remote may be a factor in this. However in my last 3 rounds I have missed long on a number of shots where I took the same club I used to, and either ended up over the green, in a trap, or through the fairway. This has happened with irons and wedges equally. I'm still likely to leave a few scoring irons & wedges short, especially on partial shots, however missing long is a new and novel thing for me right now.

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38 minutes ago, revkev said:

You're a rarity then - I think though that it is important not to make statements based on exceptions.  It's like saying, "Well I hit a draw.  Why would anyone want a "draw" driver when we all know that 80 percent of golfers struggle with a slice."  So while you may be the extremely rare exception who takes enough club into the green and almost always hits you approach shot well enough to get flag high it remains a true reality that most don't, myself included and I'm a fairly accomplished golfer.

 

I'd highly recommend that you do find a shot tracking program of some sort.  You might be surprised at what you learn.  For example I used to game wedges at even 4 degree gaps because that was the prevailing wisdom, Peltz said it, SCOR (my wedge brand) recommended it for me, really just about anything that you read said, Do this!  Then I got ShotScope which revealed that my 56 degree wedge was next to worthless.  I rarely if ever hit it full and when I used it around the green I was not nearly as effective as I was with the 52 and the 60.  I ended up replacing the club with something else almost as useless but at least by having it out of the bag I wasn't tempted to use it.  My handicap index dropped because I consistently got the 52 closer to the hole.  Fast forward to this season.  I replaced my SCOR wedges with an Edison 59 and 53 bent to 54 (they only come in odd numbers.)  I'm a bit more accurate and consistent with those wedges on full shots but am no where near as effective chipping with the 54 as I was with the 52.  So....... I've taken the useless 3 wood out of the bag - something that I've needed to do for a while and put the 52 back in.  If it ever stops raining in Florida I will expect that my chipping will go back to where it was and my handicap will head back down again after trending up for a while.

 

Having a good tracking system may be a great way to discover some holes in your game that are simple to fix either through an equipment change, practice, a lesson or a change in strategy.  I've learned by now that there have been things that I thought about my game that just weren't true based on the numbers - don't get me started on hybrids. 🙂

 

I don't live in the US and also am on a limited budget (with one daughter in college and another one on the way) so I buy component clubs or used. Nonetheless, at my age the advantage generally is we are more honest with ourselves about our capabilities so that helps. I once was a high single digit and hope to return. My strength was my length and accuracy off the tee, and my weakness my short irons. However, I believe I am close to understanding my "good" swing enough to make it work for my short irons. I also believe the DCI 990B's will also help me with my hook and hit the ball higher and more consistently with my short irons. I already have the DCI LW and I have never hit a short iron so well. I believe it's due to most of the weight near the hosel.

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TM R7, Big Bertha 2, 4, 7w, DCI 990B 5-P, L, Bionik 105

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1 hour ago, cnosil said:

Based on that response it sounds like you are picking bad targets.

I don't think so, even with weaker vision than the younger me. I think. I still know where the target should be.   Usually the penalty for misses will be severe for missing left or right or being long; then being short.

Plus, I have the common golfer's syndrome, only remember the best shot I have had.  That, prompt the 70% miss being short to target.  The approach could be on line and got to the putting surface, but being 10-15 yards short of ideal spot.  I still think it's not an ideal approach shot ended up more than 20' away from the intended spot. 

 

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