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Changing from steel to graphite shafted irons?


ChasenLogan
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Hello all!

I currently game Mizuno 919 Tours with Project X 6.0 steel shafts STD length.  Ive been hitting my irons solid and I launch the ball fairly high even though Project X is stated to be a low launch shaft. Ive been wanting to gain more club head speed as well as save my joints some shock so I been researching alot into graphite shafts.  Ive already switched my wedges to steelfiber shafts and i love the feel of them so i was wondering if i should reshaft the rest of my irons to steelfiber i95?  I just dont know how this change from steel to graphite (120g to 95g) might change the launch of the ball since i95 is shown as a mid/high launch.

Current swing weight with my Project X 6.0 is about a D2/D3.  With steelfibers i believe i calculated that it would drop to somewhere around a C6/C7.  Is there a noticeable difference in distance, smash factor, launch or speed when dropping 6 or 7 swing weights while using graphite?  

Also from general shaft fitting tables, it shows that i should be playing with shafts at -0.5" in length.  If i move to graphite should i be playing -0.5" or still play STD length?

Sorry for all the questions,  Im just trying to learn as much as i can.  Thanks everyone!

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Driver (10.5): Taylormade SIM2 (Fujikura Ventus Blue 6S)
3-Wood (13.5): Taylormade SIM2 TI (Fujikura Ventus Blue 7X)
Irons (2I, 4I-7I, 8I-PW): Mizuno MP-20/MMC/HMB (Steelfiber i95 Stiff)
GW (51/11): Cleveland CBX 2 (Steelfiber i70 Stiff)
SW (56/12): Cleveland CBX Full Face (Steelfiber i70 Stiff)
LW (62/6): Cleveland ZipCore Tour Rack (Steelfiber i70 Stiff)
Putter: Bettinardi INOVAI 6.0 Center Shaft
Ball: Pro V1x Left Dash

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3 hours ago, ChasenLogan said:

Hello all!

I currently game Mizuno 919 Tours with Project X 6.0 steel shafts STD length.  Ive been hitting my irons solid and I launch the ball fairly high even though Project X is stated to be a low launch shaft. Ive been wanting to gain more club head speed as well as save my joints some shock so I been researching alot into graphite shafts.  Ive already switched my wedges to steelfiber shafts and i love the feel of them so i was wondering if i should reshaft the rest of my irons to steelfiber i95?  I just dont know how this change from steel to graphite (120g to 95g) might change the launch of the ball since i95 is shown as a mid/high launch.

Current swing weight with my Project X 6.0 is about a D2/D3.  With steelfibers i believe i calculated that it would drop to somewhere around a C6/C7.  Is there a noticeable difference in distance, smash factor, launch or speed when dropping 6 or 7 swing weights while using graphite?  

Also from general shaft fitting tables, it shows that i should be playing with shafts at -0.5" in length.  If i move to graphite should i be playing -0.5" or still play STD length?

Sorry for all the questions,  Im just trying to learn as much as i can.  Thanks everyone!

All good questions but there is a lot that goes into it as you have started to hint at. I would not get too hung up on the manufacturers saying launch is low or mid as it not standard across the industry. ITs hard to know if those will work in your irons as they do in your wedges. Could try just switching one iron try to schedule a fitting to try some graphite options and see what works. There are a few options in weight closer to 120. Steelfiber goes up to 125, MMTs have 105 and 125 options, and Recoils go up to 110 (and I think might have a 125 option too). If you could try some that would be a good help.

Finally on swing weight a number of things go into this. Yes the lighter shaft would lower the swing weight (about 9 grams will lower swing weight 1 point), but then the balance point of the shaft comes in. If the Steelfibers have a lower balance point you might not need to any longer. I know @edingc built stick with MMT 105 TX that weigh out at 113g and found no need for extra length. Though you will see many brands up the length by 0.5 inches for graphite offerings to manage swing weight, but its worth asking a club builder about this. 

Good luck with your changes.

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:callaway-small: Epic Max LS 9° HZRDUS Smoke Black 70g 6.5 (2021 Official Review) | :taylormade-small: '07 Burner 15° Reax 50 Stiff 

:titelist-small: 816 H1 18° Fujikura Speeder HB 8.8 Stiff | :titelist-small: 816 H1 21° Mitsubishi Diamana S+ Blue 70 Stiff

:ping-small:  I500 5 - UW Red Dot Dynamic Gold S300 | :Hogan: Equalizer 52° / 56° KBS Tour V 110 Stiff

:cleveland-small:  SOFT 11S Super Stroke Mid-Slim 2.0 | :ping-small: Hoofer Bag | :titelist-small: Left Dash Pro V1x| Right Handed 

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@ejgaudette covered a lot of it pretty well.

Since you have them in your wedges whatever changes you have seen between the wedges with your old shafts and the steelfiber will translate into the irons.

 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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Just made a similar change myself and will be putting them into play for the first time tomorrow. The fitter put me into some MMTs, the overall weight of the club is lighter (should translate into a bit more speed or keep my speed where it is as I age) but a touch more swing weight for head feel. 
 

good luck

Walking ahead of my BagBoy QuadXL w Alphard eWheels
Driver: Callaway Mavrik SubZero 9* Neutral w stock Evenflow Riptide R flex shaft
3W  Titelist TS2 15* Draw w Tensei Blue R flex
3H, 4H Cobra One Length F9 Speedback hybrids (1”short) w Fujikura Atmos R flex shaft
5I-GW Cobra Forged TEC Black One Length (1”short, 2* flat) KBS 90 R flex shafts
56, 60 Cobra King MIM One Length Black (1” short) KBS HiRev2.0 125 S flex shafts
ER7  or Scotty Futura X - 35”

OnCore Elixr (lemon or lime)

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Questions of this nature I always take up with a certified fitter and together we make that decision either on the range or in a fitting booth.  I am 75 and still hitting steel and just went with a regular shaft when the Titleist T300 irons came out.  Getting the right shaft with the right head and maximum from those is the key.  My fitters and that is right, I have two, and both are certified Titleist fitters have told me that graphite has never been an option for me.  Both are in high demand and it depends on how quickly I want to get a fitting, of course, being on a range is my first choice.  They have never let me down.  Both have over 30 years of experience.  Just saying.  This is a choice that works best for me.  😃

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My last two sets of Apex had Recoil's, and my current i500's have Recoil SmacWrap. I've probably fitted more customers with UST Recoil's than any other graphite shaft.

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Ping G400 Max Driver 10.5° w/Diamona S+ LTD Blue-Board 70 R Flex

Ping G410 5 Fairway Wood Mitsubishi Tensi Orange R Flex

Ping G410 4-5-6 Hybrids Mitsubishi Tensi Blue R Flex

Ping i500 Irons 5-U w/Recoil SmacWrap F3 Flex (power-spec lofts)

Ping 3.0 Eye2 Glide Wedges 54°-58° w/Recoil SmacWrap F3 Flex

2019 Bettinardi QB6 and 2021 Ping Fetch Putter (depends on the greens)

PING Pioneer Cart Bag

Superstroke Cross Comfort Mid-Size Grips

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I switched from modus 120 stiff shafts to steelfiber 110 in x flex - the former were mizuno mmc/mb combos, and the latter are in Srixon 785/z forged combos. I got the Srixons on a whim at a price that was too good to pass up, because I wanted to try the Srixon heads, steelfiber shafts and a stiffer flex (my swing speed isn’t overly fast, but I have an aggressive transition). The switch has been awesome - obviously it isn’t a direct comparison because of the different heads, but the steelfibers feel great - really smooth, great launch and spin, and I haven’t had a moment’s thought to switch back. I had heard that the steelfibers play stiffer than their stated flex, but I have had no problem launching and spinning them - my 7 iron club head speed is in the mid/upper 120 mph range.

I have never worried about things like swing weight numbers (just go on feel), but I can say I don’t notice much of a difference.

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Callaway Epic Flash SZ 9deg, 15 deg tensei av blue x flex

Cobra F9 hybrid 17deg, 24 deg

Mizuno MP20 (6,7,8 MMC, 9,PW MB)

Callaway MD4 50, 54, 58

Scotty Cameron Select Squareback 2

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On 7/15/2021 at 2:01 PM, ChasenLogan said:

Ive been wanting to gain more club head speed as well as save my joints some shock so I been researching alot into graphite shafts.

I have just switched to graphite to help with my left shoulder and to a lesser extent my left elbow and hands.  I had a similar thread some time ago and was curious just how much composite helped with joint pain.  Everyone responded that they do indeed reduce wear n tear on joints and, even better, many found improved performance over steel.

There are so many good options now and we're seeing many. many more folks moving away from steel - even many low handicap, higher than average swing speeds.  If you haven't done so, I would highly recommend finding a quality fitter in your area and spending the $$ testing shafts with a LM.  I was very surprised by how different some felt and worked/did not work.  I ended up with Accra ICWT, MMT80, and Recoil SMACWRAP ES760 producing the best numbers in that order.  I chose the MMT with ZX5's.

Anyway, lots of spies here with great knowledge and far more than I can offer but my key point is to get fitted.  I'll also add that if you end up buying a set of custom clubs, give Fairway Jockey a look.  They do a fantastic job and are very competitively priced. Good luck!

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:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

 

 

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On 7/15/2021 at 3:01 PM, ChasenLogan said:

Hello all!

I currently game Mizuno 919 Tours with Project X 6.0 steel shafts STD length.  Ive been hitting my irons solid and I launch the ball fairly high even though Project X is stated to be a low launch shaft. Ive been wanting to gain more club head speed as well as save my joints some shock so I been researching alot into graphite shafts.  Ive already switched my wedges to steelfiber shafts and i love the feel of them so i was wondering if i should reshaft the rest of my irons to steelfiber i95?  I just dont know how this change from steel to graphite (120g to 95g) might change the launch of the ball since i95 is shown as a mid/high launch.

Current swing weight with my Project X 6.0 is about a D2/D3.  With steelfibers i believe i calculated that it would drop to somewhere around a C6/C7.  Is there a noticeable difference in distance, smash factor, launch or speed when dropping 6 or 7 swing weights while using graphite?  

Also from general shaft fitting tables, it shows that i should be playing with shafts at -0.5" in length.  If i move to graphite should i be playing -0.5" or still play STD length?

Sorry for all the questions,  Im just trying to learn as much as i can.  Thanks everyone!

So many quality good responses already in the thread. One thing I have learned over the years regarding transitioning from a heavier weight shaft (whether steel or graphite) is that the new shaft I transitioned to may have been lighter in weight but the feel remained. Subjective I know. I do not go by swing weight numbers anymore. I research the shaft brand/model and attempt to understand how the zones of the shaft are weighted/stiffened. For example you hear things about a shaft that may say the butt/grip end is very stiff and the mid section weaker/softer and the tip extra stiff, etc, etc. With graphite, many many combinations that affect your perception of feel. And of course the grips and how much they weigh in conjunction with the newer shaft affect swing weight. Once my research period is over I attempt to read forums like MGS to see what others feel about a brand/model. Then I order a shaft and attempt to build a like club (length/flex/same grip I plan to play) and test OR go to driving range/retail place that may have irons with the brand/model shaft I am interested in. Just my process but you did good asking in a community forum like MGS. Good luck with the one you choose to go with. 

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3 hours ago, ChuckZ said:

Questions of this nature I always take up with a certified fitter and together we make that decision either on the range or in a fitting booth.  I am 75 and still hitting steel and just went with a regular shaft when the Titleist T300 irons came out.  Getting the right shaft with the right head and maximum from those is the key.  My fitters and that is right, I have two, and both are certified Titleist fitters have told me that graphite has never been an option for me.  Both are in high demand and it depends on how quickly I want to get a fitting, of course, being on a range is my first choice.  They have never let me down.  Both have over 30 years of experience.  Just saying.  This is a choice that works best for me.  😃

Curious why your fitters say they are not an option for you.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  :seemore-small: mFGP2

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, Bellum Winmore 787

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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1 hour ago, cnosil said:

Curious why your fitters say they are not an option for you.  

 

... I was going to ask the same thing. I imagine since Titleist does not offer many graphite options that plays in to it but still kinda surprising. I feel the opposite and think everyone should be playing graphite in their irons and wedges. Obviously the young and fit do not have to worry about immediate damage from pounding steel shafts into the ground but the older you get the more trouble you potentially expose yourself to. Of course if you play once a week it really isn't an issue but if you play and practice multiple times per week, graphite is just so much easier on your body. Combined with just about any weight from 65 to 130gms, flex point, trajectory and torque for feel I just think it is an easy choice. Lastly $ might come into play as well and I certainly understand why someone fit, young and not playing multiple times per week would not want to pay a $50 premium per club for Steelfiber or Recoil shafts when excellent steel shafts are available at no up charge. 

... Playing graphite in my irons for over 20 years now I went back to steel with some Nippon 950GH as that was all Cobra offered in their King Tour MIM irons at the time and I really liked their performance. I started developing some elbow tendonitis again and those of you that have experienced this know it happens quickly and can be very painful. Cut back on my playing (a little 🤪) and re-shafted my Cobra's with Steelfiber 95's and the tendonitis is almost completely gone. No meds, no exercises and no changes other the switching from steel back to graphite. Ymmv ... 

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Driver:   TaylorMade SIM2 Max 10.5* ... Diamana Ltd 60R
Fairway:  TaylorMade SIM2 Max 15* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
                 TaylorMade SIM2 Max 18* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
Utility:   TaylorMade DHy 19* ... Diamana Ltd 65R
              Taylor Made Sim Hybrid 22* ... Diamana Ltd 75R
Irons:    4-Pw Cobra King Tour MIM ... Steelfiber 95R
Wedges:  Cobra Snakebite 50* ... Steelfiber 95R
                 Vokey SM8 58* ... Steelfiber 95R
Putter:  Cleveland Hunting Beach Soft 11S 33.5"
Ball:      TaylorMade TP5x (2021)

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re-shafted all my Titleist AP1 irons to graphite last winter.  Best move I ever made.  

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What's In the Bag

TaylorMade Sim Max 10.5° driver w/5.5 Evenflow Riptide 50 shaft & std GolfPride Tour Velvet +4 grip
Tour Edge Exotics EXS 220 3-wood w/reg Fuijikura Air Speeder 40 shaft & std Lamkin Z5 TT grip
Tour Edge Exotics EXS 220 3-hybrid w/reg KBS 70 shaft & std GolfPride Tour Velvet +4 grip
Titleist AP1 714 irons 5-PW & GW w/reg True Temper XP95 R300 shafts & std GolfPride Tour Velvet +4 grips
Tour Edge Exotics triple grind 60°/7° sand wedge & std TE grip
Cleveland Huntington Beach soft #11 putter with Winn 1.32" oversize grip
Sun Mountain C-130 Cart Bag
 

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I was suffering with tennis elbow (from golf) and my wrists were mildly achy after every 18 hole round. I reshafted my JPX900 Forged irons from stiff XP95 steel shafts to regular flex Recoil 95 graphite shafts. My elbow is much better, my wrists don’t ache anymore - and I didn’t lose any distance or accuracy. I hope to play another 20 years, so I’m glad I switched and I’ll never go back.

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I fought golfer's elbow back in 2017 and it has shown up again this year.  I'm not having any luck getting rid of it now so I'm seriously considering the move to graphite.

I'm using AMT White S300's now in the irons and DGold S200 (I think) in the wedges.  Afraid to go too light because I prefer a high swingweight, too.

I seriously need to get in somewhere for a full blown fitting.

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WITB:

Nothing presently.  I'm doing a full rebuild soon after my golfer's elbow heals and I get a full fitting.

 

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Have always played steel shafts. After putting a Graphite Design Tour AD UT in my U500 utility iron and seeing (and feeling) such great results with it, I am seriously considering a full set of GD AD iron shafts for my new combo-set of T100S/T200 I'm planning to purchase later this year. I'm sure my aging body will appreciate them, and I wouldn't be surprised if my game benefits too, once I get them dialed in. I think, though, my wedges will stay steel shafted.

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Titleist TSi3 Driver/TSI2 3W/TSI3 20*H

Titleist U500 4i/T200 5-PW/Vokey SM8 48/54/60

Scotty Newport 2 Select

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On 7/15/2021 at 2:01 PM, ChasenLogan said:

Current swing weight with my Project X 6.0 is about a D2/D3.  With steelfibers i believe i calculated that it would drop to somewhere around a C6/C7.  Is there a noticeable difference in distance, smash factor, launch or speed when dropping 6 or 7 swing weights while using graphite?  

This is something one needs to consider and something to discuss with the fitter.  The AWT's on my G410's are 98g and the MMT80 84g. Yesterday was my first experience hitting the new irons.  I hit a large bucket, played 18, and hit another large bucket afterwards. Off to a good start but I do sense a bit of weight change and feel I'm searching for tempo a little bit.  I have a more aggressive, compact swing, and think I'm overpowering these a little. When I concentrated a slightly slower transition, ball striking position on the face improved. These are +1/2 vs. +1 and have midsize vs. standard grips. Fitting specs were to be D1-D2 (G410 swing weight) but I haven't validated that.

I found a thread on golfwrx specifically on swing weight change when moving from steel to composite, and a couple of examples were extreme... like 40g + difference. The solution was lead tape.  Lead tape on a brand new, gleaming set of ZX5's... OMG, the horror of it 😱.  Bottom-line is make sure that's discussed with fitter and builder.

:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

 

 

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