Bushnell Launch Pro

[TBT]

Saw this on Facebook today…..powered by Foresight

Anybody know anymore details?

[cnosil]

It was on the MGS social feeds last night as well; doesn’t seem to be a lot of information other than a fall release.  Have seen speculation that it is a new/updated iteration of the GC2 with club data.   Interesting that foresight is partnering with Bushnell and not releasing this themselves.  Look like the PLM space is going to be interesting to watch over the next year or so.  Will this be on the same level as skytrak  and mevo+ or will it be a theoretical step up like the Tiger launch monitor that has been in pre launch for a while.

here’s the website:

https://www.bushnellgolf.com/launch-pro

[null]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

It was on the MGS social feeds last night as well; doesn’t seem to be a lot of information other than a fall release.  Have seen speculation that it is a new/updated iteration of the GC2 with club data.   Interesting that foresight is partnering with Bushnell and not releasing this themselves.  Look like the PLM space is going to be interesting to watch over the next year or so.  Will this be on the same level as skytrak  and mevo+ or will it be a theoretical step up like the Tiger launch monitor that has been in pre launch for a while.

here’s the website:

https://www.bushnellgolf.com/launch-pro

I wonder if it's so that Foresight can maintain their "premium" price tag in the professional space while licensing their name and technology to Bushnell for use in the consumer space.  Plus Bushnell already has the brand recognition in the consumer space.  I would argue that Foresight doesn't have much brand recognition within the consumer space, especially relative to "Trackman".

Bushnell would also have a distribution network that is capable of supporting the retail space as well as the direct to consumer space.

[GregGarner]

Just last week I pre-ordered the Garmin R10 and now I'm wondering if my impatience has gotten the better of me. I'm trying to rationalize that Bushnell is typically at the higher end of whatever market they enter, so maybe this will come in around $1000-2000 and still not the sub-$1000 price point, which is what I wanted.

Didn't Tony say a while back (2019? 2020?) that it didn't make sense to buy a PLM yet because of how aggressively the price and features would change in the coming couple years?

[FWiater]

I believe this will be in the $3000 - $6000 range depending on what is included. It would have to be a fill gap for GC2. I see no reason they would compete with the GC Quad, so It would have to be something of an upgrade to Mevo+ or Skytrak. There lies the $3000 starting point minimum. Also the Full Swing kit is coming in at $3999 plus options, so I think this is a mid range offering full launch monitor with ball and club capabilities, but maybe without some of the pro only features of a GC Quad

[ChitownM2]

6 hours ago, FWiater said:

I believe this will be in the $3000 - $6000 range depending on what is included. It would have to be a fill gap for GC2. I see no reason they would compete with the GC Quad, so It would have to be something of an upgrade to Mevo+ or Skytrak. There lies the $3000 starting point minimum. Also the Full Swing kit is coming in at $3999 plus options, so I think this is a mid range offering full launch monitor with ball and club capabilities, but maybe without some of the pro only features of a GC Quad

I can't see Bushnell releasing a consumer product in that price range.  Bushnell is a brand that sells in volume and is stocked in retail stores. At $3-6k this would be strictly a niche product for the most hardcore golf junkies or instructors who don't want to pay for a trackman or gc quad.  Even the mevo+ is way too expensive for the average golfer.

The only club data it mentions is head speed so my guess is this will be priced competitively with a skytrak or mevo+.  That gives foresight a chance to get in the the PLM market without infringing on their main pro/semi-pro equipment.  

[mikewohlwend]

42 minutes ago, FWiater said:

I believe this will be in the $3000 - $6000 range depending on what is included. It would have to be a fill gap for GC2. I see no reason they would compete with the GC Quad, so It would have to be something of an upgrade to Mevo+ or Skytrak. There lies the $3000 starting point minimum. Also the Full Swing kit is coming in at $3999 plus options, so I think this is a mid range offering full launch monitor with ball and club capabilities, but maybe without some of the pro only features of a GC Quad

I agree with this.  I can see the price starting around $4000 and then have software to add on.

 

Makes things really interesting when I'd like to get more info than my Skytrak offers.

[cnosil]

3 minutes ago, ChitownM2 said:

The only club data it mentions is head speed so my guess is this will be priced competitively with a skytrak or mevo+.  That gives foresight a chance to get in the the PLM market without infringing on their main pro/semi-pro equipment.  

it also states “tour level club data” which to me is more thaN just club head speed.  We will just have to wait and see as everything is just speculation.  

[JonMUSC08]

thinking about this... if Bushnell is going to claim "tour level accuracy" and this will be for indoors and outdoors... what will be the difference between it and the GCquad? And if a GCquad runs ya $15-20k, then what are they changing to bring the pricing down to $5-10k (guessing)??? 

[cnosil]

9 minutes ago, JonMUSC08 said:

thinking about this... if Bushnell is going to claim "tour level accuracy" and this will be for indoors and outdoors... what will be the difference between it and the GCquad? And if a GCquad runs ya $15-20k, then what are they changing to bring the pricing down to $5-10k (guessing)??? 

It is basically the difference between GCQuad and GC2+HMT.   It would be number of cameras, environmental conditions,  connectivity,  etc.   

[FWiater]

30 minutes ago, ChitownM2 said:

I can't see Bushnell releasing a consumer product in that price range.  Bushnell is a brand that sells in volume and is stocked in retail stores. At $3-6k this would be strictly a niche product for the most hardcore golf junkies or instructors who don't want to pay for a trackman or gc quad.  Even the mevo+ is way too expensive for the average golfer.

The only club data it mentions is head speed so my guess is this will be priced competitively with a skytrak or mevo+.  That gives foresight a chance to get in the the PLM market without infringing on their main pro/semi-pro equipment.  

 

 

 

 

Bushnell has no problems releasing a $550 range finder. And this LM is a heck of lot more complicated than those. I also don't see Foresight sports putting their name and more importantly reputation on a $500 LM. If they want to claim "tour level accuracy" it's not going to come in under $3000 and hold true to that claim. Foresight sports knows that just like when big screen TV's first came out and they were tens of thousands of dollars, mass production, and consumer use can drives those costs to a fraction of what a GC quad sells for now, and they need to be prepared to deal with that. It's just my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt. But history tends to repeat itself. The days of super high priced LM's are numbered, and there will always be room at the top end, the middle, and the low end depending on everyone's needs. How much data they need, and the accuracy level. Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?

 

[ChitownM2]

6 hours ago, cnosil said:

it also states “tour level club data” which to me is more thaN just club head speed.  We will just have to wait and see as everything is just speculation.  

Yeah no way of knowing right now, I assumed they were referring to the accuracy when they stated "tour level".  If they are actually providing impact location, club path, face angle, dynamic loft, etc then I would have expected them to mention some of those things in the actual list of stats it tracks.  Those stats are what separate the $500 PLM devices from pro-sumer models costing thousands, so to me, they would have been listed if they had that capability. 

It also doesn't make sense to me why Bushnell would want to get into that limited market of products where the substantial majority of buyers would be professional / commercial customers (golf pros, simulator bars, etc.). Their entire product portfolio is about selling retail products to end users/consumers.  Likewise, I don't understand why foresight would want to "share" that market with Bushnell when they have already established themselves in that pro-sumer space.  

For me, the only logical explanation is a product that sells for $2k or less where Foresight can take advantage of Bushnell's name, retail connections and logistical capabilities to mass produce a product that could potentially be sold in B&M stores like PGATSS or Golf Galaxy, etc alongside Bushnell's other golf products.  

  Edit:  Found the press release, Bushnell specifically mentions targeting this device at consumers and the "broader golf community".  $4-6k launch monitors are going to sell in extremely limited numbers....I'm guessing this is a more accurate skytrak that does a better job of capturing data outdoors.  Essentially a re-release of the GC2 but updated by Bushnell to be cheaper to mass produce and hit a lower price point.  Foresight gets to continue the revenue stream from an old product without any new investment and Bushnell gets to sell a new product in a category where they don't currently have an offering.

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, ChitownM2 said:

Bushnell gets to sell a new product in a category where they don't currently have an offering.

Wonder how much Garmin's R10 device pushed Bushnell to get into this market. 

[Golfspy_CG2]

I have a message in to our Bushnell Rep to see if he has any additional info he can share. 

[edingc]

25 minutes ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

I have a message in to our Bushnell Rep to see if he has any additional info he can share. 

Doing yeoman's work, as per usual. I'll be curious what you can find out! I like my Mevo+ a lot, don't think I'd change, but it's good to see more competition in this space.

[GolfSpy BOS]

I expect this will be in the Mevo+ Or Skytrack price range. What I’m more looking forward to learning about is what it offers in the simulator side and what the subscription looks like. 
 

ive always said I want a home sim in the next house, seems like this could be great competition for skytrack too

[GregGarner]

12 hours ago, cnosil said:

Wonder how much Garmin's R10 device pushed Bushnell to get into this market. 

I would guess 0% - between the timing of the announcements and product development cycles, I lean more towards what the others here have mentioned about Mevo+/SkyTrak. I think there will be decent overlap between how each is positioned (i.e. both will tout their portability, indoor/outdoor use, home sim, etc) but Garmin's bread and butter is GPS and Bushnell is laser/optics.

All that to say, if the high-end rivalry is Quad vs Trackman, I'm totally here for an affordable rivalry between Bushnell and Garmin

[FWiater]

Looks like the rumored 3 cam system might be true?
 

[jddaigneault]

My guess is the biggest difference is software. Foresight allows you to play courses, and has complex fitting software. I would guess that this won’t be as robust in that department. While it will offer a lot of data, my guess is you won’t get the stuff the average golfer doesn’t quite understand. Think foresight=fitting and bushnell=range work. 

[ChitownM2]

Bushnell updated the site with a little new info.  Sounds to me like they are saying it gives "tour level accuracy" not that it provides the type of data that a tour level LM can.  It specifically mentions providing reliable launch and ball flight data and nothing about specific club metrics other than the clubhead speed previously mentioned.  I'm definitely thinking this is going to be like a more accurate Mevo+ as they specifically call out radar based systems as having to "guess using algorithms" for the data.  Hopefully it comes in at or below that price point as well.....

Will need to see a head to head comparison with the Garmin R10 because if that device can deliver reasonable accuracy on the metrics it measures it seems way more useful than getting near perfect accuracy on far fewer items.  If club path, face angle, launch direction, angle of attack, etc are reasonably accurate I would much rather have all of that data compared to what this appears to be offering.  I'm also pretty certain that the Bushnell isn't going to be $600 so it may be an uphill battle if Garmin has found a way to give accurate results.

[CRW]

I don’t have an issue with radar based monitors, in fact I prefer Trackman over GCQuad even indoors. However, the early reports on the R10 seem to indicate that it’s not going to be in the same ball park compared to the Launch Pro when it comes to accuracy. Assuming the Launch Pro provides the same degree of accuracy as GC2/4. 

The reviews I've seen on the R10 show it picking up shots going to opposite direction as what GC4 was showing.  That is really bad and will likely be the source of a lot of frustration for golfers trying to get better…”but I hit draws on my R10 all the time…”

[ChitownM2]

28 minutes ago, CRW said:

I don’t have an issue with radar based monitors, in fact I prefer Trackman over GCQuad even indoors. However, the early reports on the R10 seem to indicate that it’s not going to be in the same ball park compared to the Launch Pro when it comes to accuracy. Assuming the Launch Pro provides the same degree of accuracy as GC2/4. 

The reviews I've seen on the R10 show it picking up shots going to opposite direction as what GC4 was showing.  That is really bad and will likely be the source of a lot of frustration for golfers trying to get better…”but I hit draws on my R10 all the time…”

That would definitely be a problem with the R10 if it can't accurately pick up the spin axis.  Have to see what future software updates bring as hopefully that could be fixed and isn't a limitation of the radar unit they are using.  Hard to believe that the product could make it all the way to launch and still be picking up the spin axis completely wrong.

[GregGarner]

On 8/24/2021 at 2:51 PM, ChitownM2 said:

That would definitely be a problem with the R10 if it can't accurately pick up the spin axis.  Have to see what future software updates bring as hopefully that could be fixed and isn't a limitation of the radar unit they are using.  Hard to believe that the product could make it all the way to launch and still be picking up the spin axis completely wrong.

I've used the R10 a couple times at the range and can confirm that it does sometimes display a shot shape other than what I hit. It's not that common, but maybe 5-10% of the time? If I were hitting into a net, I could definitely see this being a problem, but outdoors, it's obviously pretty easy to know that it got it wrong.

One thing that has been helpful in my use of the R10 is knowing which metrics are measured and which are calculated. It's measuring speeds and angles but it's calculating spin and spin axis, for example. So it's not that it's "picking up" incorrectly, it's that there's massive room for improvement on their algorithms. Hopefully that can be addressed in a firmware update.

[TR1PTIK]

I think what Harry has shared in his testing of the R10 just places that much more pressure (and hope) on the Launch Pro. 

https://mygolfspy.com/hype-meter-garmin-approach-r10/

[HeathS16]

6 hours ago, TR1PTIK said:

I think what Harry has shared in his testing of the R10 just places that much more pressure (and hope) on the Launch Pro. 

https://mygolfspy.com/hype-meter-garmin-approach-r10/

Gotta agree here. Count me in as a hopeful. I’m trying to decide if it is worth a long term savings plan to try and get to the $2k price range. Especially since the R10 doesn’t seem to be the answer in the lower end price point. I have an empty indoor in the winter that I can hit in everyday so I need something accurate indoors. 

[ST3LTR0]

More rumors indicating this would be the U.S. version of the GC3 that is upcoming and comes with a lot of the same features as the GC4 minus some of the more advanced club metrics. If it starts at 3k I think this would be an incredible purchase if the features are accurate. I'm definitely super interested to see the price and performance of this thing. A strong potential purchase for me. 

[FWiater]

I believe the launch pro will be the GC3 in Europe. Here's some specs, including 
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3AqIa2B96vYtIJ%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Flp.foresightsports.ca%2Fgc3%2F &cd=10&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&fbclid=IwAR3iUODc_Z_vA1AUN2xtLRqkfgq2AQB0QtsYv8EMKyDwlEqHG5tqgGAlBxE

[FWiater]

Here are the connection types
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.foresightsports.com%2Fgc3-connection-types-related-applications&oq=cache%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.foresightsports.com%2Fgc3-connection-types-related-applications&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i58.5789j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&fbclid=IwAR0Im4SQxCfnLwzKBq1vCBUi63k4ElmifwnRKgTcAI8CluytZCoRnTmoCZQ

[PeterHenric]

That's a good catch on getting the Google Cache of the page.

 

According to the page, these are the metrics you don't get for the club:

Loft/Lie
Face Angle
Impact Location
Closure Rate

[FWiater]

13 hours ago, PeterHenric said:

That's a good catch on getting the Google Cache of the page.

 

According to the page, these are the metrics you don't get for the club:

Loft/Lie
Face Angle
Impact Location
Closure Rate

Correct, that would be the "4 dot" club data the Quad uses.