150 and In

[cnosil]

15 minutes ago, Shankster said:

Thanks.  I was not trying to be argumentative, just trying to figure out the logic behind it all.  Makes sense.  That is how I look at everything, I do play to miss on the “best” spot if I do miss hit it.  For example, if the stick is 2 from the left and 3 on, I set up to play for giving myself the room on the right.

I didn't think you were being argumentative.  We are just having a discussion on course strategy and how we see things and possibly help people play better.  

 

13 minutes ago, Shankster said:

Here is the first hole.  I’ll never have this yardage, but is a good example.

 

this particular shot I would likely use the 54°, and aim to land it in the vicinity of the little yellow mark.  Relatively flat green, pitched toward you.  Long sucks here, everywhere else is manageable.

22 yards wide is relatively standard size and will fit a normal dispersion pattern.   115 yard shot starts to give you a green light to go pin hunting.  unless it is placed close to edges.   With red pin location the yellow target seems right.  

[cnosil]

3 minutes ago, PMookie said:

Does the Decade app get you the ability to access the Google Earth pics and put-in the dispersion ovals? Wondering how to measure the green then put those on the image. I’m computer illiterate 

No the decade app doesn't do this,  but Scott provides lots of videos that show how to do that.   If you know DECADE,  the circles really aren't important for an approach shot.  He uses them mostly for education to explain why you are picking specific targets.  DECADE instructs you on how to identify the right green target.  

For tee shot, using google earth can provide a lot of help.   He goes through that aspect on his youtube channel in a sample video.  

 

[GolfSpy AFG]

3 hours ago, PMookie said:

Does the Decade app get you the ability to access the Google Earth pics and put-in the dispersion ovals? Wondering how to measure the green then put those on the image. I’m computer illiterate 

@cnosilalready gave you the video link, but it’s not hard….you’re really just using Google Earth’s built-in measuring capabilities, then snipping the image and manipulating as necessary.

Honestly it’s the one part of DECADE that I haven’t fully jumped into yet (course mapping) and I really wish I had…just got back from playing some links-style Central Nebraska courses for the first time, and I’d have scored MUCH better if I’d had a better understanding of club selection and proper lines off the tee.

[Shankster]

4 hours ago, cnosil said:

If the pin is back, you can probably move the line a few yards left.    you mention being on the right tier;  based on a dispersion pattern like the one shown,  some will be on the right tier and some won't.  

This is about my shot pattern on this hole.

 

Just for shiggles, I hit 20 (53 yard shots), and 20 (66 yard shots). Just happened to where my grass is decent in the yard and the target across the road I picked out.  Using one ball, coming back and re-aiming teach one.

 

my Left / Right dispersion on the 53 yard shots was about 2 yards but my Front / Back as closer to 5-6 yards all but one was short. A lot of that is the landing area I think.  Some of them kicked oddly.

 

the 66 yard shots were about 4 yards Left / Right and about the same short, 5-7 ish yards. One long here too.  I did have one way long and left, that I “excluded”, one of my kids slammed the door shut while I was mid swing… I’ll keep that in mind too.

 

First I’ve practiced in a very long time, I actually learned lot.  The standard pitch shot which is a mid flight is deadly straight, and I am planning to use it instead of messing around with ball flight on these unless I need to.  Just have to get the distance down.

 

Might try to hit the range this week for the first time in a while.  See if I can’t neutralize the draw a little with the irons, it gets too hooky at times and I hate it.

 

[cnosil]

12 minutes ago, Shankster said:

my Left / Right dispersion on the 53 yard shots was about 2 yards but my Front / Back as closer to 5-6 yards all but one was short. A lot of that is the landing area I think.  Some of them kicked oddly.

i think this is very revealing.  In practice you have a 6 yard front to back dispersion on a 53 yard shot,  that is 18 feet.   On greens with slopes and only one opportunity it might be a little bigger.   Strokes gained for 50 yards in the fairway is 2.66 strokes.   Unless you are hitting them all within a yard or two it will most likely take you 3 strokes to get up and down.  

My biggest point from all my responses is that while strokes gained is a great way to assess your game,  you can't just focus on the number and let a single round frustrate you without understanding more of the details. 

[Shankster]

4 minutes ago, cnosil said:

i think this is very revealing.  In practice you have a 6 yard front to back dispersion on a 53 yard shot,  that is 18 feet.   On greens with slopes and only one opportunity it might be a little bigger.   Strokes gained for 50 yards in the fairway is 2.66 strokes.   Unless you are hitting them all within a yard or two it will most likely take you 3 strokes to get up and down.  

My biggest point from all my responses is that while strokes gained is a great way to assess your game,  you can't just focus on the number and let a single round frustrate you without understanding more of the details. 

I do think that they would have skipped up a little closer, but I get what you are saying.  
 

need to figure this out for all clubs.  Crazy that Scott uses a 70 yard dispersion for Pro’s with the driver… if I heard him correctly in that video. I’m guessing mine is far worse than that at times.

[ZenGolfer]

On 7/22/2021 at 8:36 PM, Shankster said:

I’m losing on average about 6 strokes per round from 150 and in compared to a scratch golfer.  I need to take a look at my strategy, and what club I’m hitting from these distances.  Worked on some more compact swings with the 58° out in the yard. This should be a PW (44°), 48°, 54° or a 58°.  Need to focus on accuracy here and not Brysoning the ball.
 

A “half” probably more like 3/4 goes 80 yards on a rope.  Now I just have to fill in the blank for 90, 100, 110, etc.  I’ve been taking full swings at 100-110 yards with the 58, and it is not always very accurate swinging full out.  Hoping that the 54° at 3/4 is 100, and the 48° is 115.  That would be great for those shorter distances.  I’d just have to commit to the smaller swing.  

If you are really hitting it 100 yards with the 58, then you really need to look into stopping Brysoning the ball and making easier swings with more club.  For me, even my 54 is 80 yards max but then again, I make pretty easy swings with all of my clubs, especially the wedges.

[Shankster]

38 minutes ago, ZenGolfer said:

If you are really hitting it 100 yards with the 58, then you really need to look into stopping Brysoning the ball and making easier swings with more club.  For me, even my 54 is 80 yards max but then again, I make pretty easy swings with all of my clubs, especially the wedges.

I used to make easier swings, but was less consistent than I am taking a fuller swing…. I think.  I wasn’t using Arccos then, but I am still working with my Kirk Junge type swing, like I’ve mentioned before, I had been setting up like this for a long time before I even knew his method.  
 

I am going to take a look at the bag.  For the course I play usually, I could probably get rid of the 3 and 4 iron, and the 3 wood, replace it with some sort of hybrid.  the 3 wood is a tee club only, I would never use it off the deck, and wouldn’t need to for any of these holes.
 

That would open up a few more spots, but where does it end?  64° wedge? 

[GolfSpy AFG]

42 minutes ago, ZenGolfer said:

If you are really hitting it 100 yards with the 58, then you really need to look into stopping Brysoning the ball and making easier swings with more club.  For me, even my 54 is 80 yards max but then again, I make pretty easy swings with all of my clubs, especially the wedges.

Not sure that I agree with this.  How far a player hits a wedge has as much to do with dynamic loft as it does with how aggressively they are swinging at it or “Brysoning” the ball.  100 yards with a 58 isn’t really that out of the ordinary, and probably not enough info to rely on to provide accurate swing advice.

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, ZenGolfer said:

If you are really hitting it 100 yards with the 58, then you really need to look into stopping Brysoning the ball and making easier swings with more club.  For me, even my 54 is 80 yards max but then again, I make pretty easy swings with all of my clubs, especially the wedges.

Why?  LPGA averages are in the 70-95 range.  Couldn't we could say that you are swinging too fast and should hit your 54 70 yards?  He swings faster so he gets more distance;  why should he slow down?   Sounds like he has decent dispersion for the club and doesn't mishit the ball.  

[GaDawg]

On 7/23/2021 at 4:20 PM, Shankster said:

Arccos says my GIR Approaches are 25’… remember, I don’t set the hole locations so that is not accurate I’d guess. 
 

All approaches, 42’.  
 

it says 0-25 is 13’

25-50 is 25’

 

 

Maybe you are too hung up on Arccos and stats. Just go out, relax and play golf. I know that sounds quirky, but sometimes we all think too much.

[Shankster]

8 minutes ago, GaDawg said:

Maybe you are too hung up on Arccos and stats. Just go out, relax and play golf. I know that sounds quirky, but sometimes we all think too much.

You bring up a good point… but I will say Arccos helped me improve my game quite a bit.  I’m not a “thinker” on the course, but I do like having a plan of attack.

 

If I can improve on something I’d like to, but I’m pretty content with my game as is.  I’ll try a relaxed round next time.  Could be a good reset.

[Shankster]

48 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Why?  LPGA averages are in the 70-95 range.  Couldn't we could say that you are swinging too fast and should hit your 54 70 yards?  He swings faster so he gets more distance;  why should he slow down?   Sounds like he has decent dispersion for the club and doesn't mishit the ball.  

I do mishit them.  The severity of them is getting better, but I am not a stripe show the whole time, far from.

[cnosil]

53 minutes ago, Shankster said:

I do mishit them.  The severity of them is getting better, but I am not a stripe show the whole time, far from.

We all mishit our clubs,  unless you are trying to overpower the clubs their really isn't a reason to slow down.  You would still mishit them if you went at 80%

 

[TBT]

I very seldom play a full swing shot inside 120…everything is 3/4 or less. I just have better control..,they are almost always dead online so I just have to get distance right. Full swing shirt irons for me are almost always a pull or a pull hook 

[Shankster]

16 minutes ago, TBT said:

I very seldom play a full swing shot inside 120…everything is 3/4 or less. I just have better control..,they are almost always dead online so I just have to get distance right. Full swing shirt irons for me are almost always a pull or a pull hook 

I’ve lost my touch on the off yardage shots. Trying to avoid them.  Or at least I think I have.  Probably reading into the stats too much and making a big deal out of nothing.
 

I may need to add a wedge, I’m going to put myself at my full swing wedge yardages, 155, 140, 123, & 93 ( Arccos Distances )next time I am out. PW, 48°, 54°, and 58° And see what I can make of those shots.

 

Just need to find a 75-90 yard shot that works.  I got the 70 < covered, I think.  A 62-64° wedge might just cover that with a comfortable full swing.

I don’t play for much release on the ball throughout the bag.  My 6 iron stops rather quickly on greens.  

 

Maybe I should just go back to blades.  

[HardcoreLooper]

15 hours ago, Shankster said:

I’m not a “thinker” on the course, but I do like having a plan of attack.

This is key for me as well.  I feel so much more confident going in with a game plan.  I'm inconsistent enough that my plan falls apart and I get to start being creative.

I played a round recently at a course I'd only played once.  I mapped out the entire course, and even though I played from one tee ahead of where I'd game-planned (I was paired with a group of chill bros who didn't play much, so I suggested we play the 6,100 yard tees to have fun), it was nice to know have the game plan, and I had my round of the year.  It just feels good not making stuff up as I go.

[Shankster]

13 hours ago, Shankster said:

Maybe I should just go back to blades.  

So, after making this extremely dumb comment.  I promptly went on YouTube and watched Michael Newton Golf, he is an accomplished golfer by my standards, and I value his opinion and tests that he does.

 

So, he put the T100, T100S, 620 CB, and 620 MB up against each other .  Watching the video… wow, I cannot believe that (from the short video) why I would ever say that.  The misses were really bad compared to the T100 line, even with the CB.

 

The dispersion on the T100 was top notch.

the 14:00 minute mark gets you to the data.

 

 

 

[cnosil]

17 minutes ago, Shankster said:

So, after making this extremely dumb comment.  I promptly went on YouTube and watched Michael Newton Golf, he is an accomplished golfer by my standards, and I value his opinion and tests that he does.

 

But you can't get better and improve your ball stroking unless you play blades  

[Shankster]

34 minutes ago, cnosil said:

But you can't get better and improve your ball stroking unless you play blades  

*me a few years ago.

[ncwoz]

Really interesting read here so far, I think the only thing I might want to chime in on. I'm wondering if it might be a good idea to start marking pins in Arccos if you're really going to try to understand how many strokes you're gaining/losing over this distance.

From say 150-200 yards wherever Arccos drops the pins (just in the middle as default ?) probably averages out pretty well since most players are more or less aiming for the middle of the green over those distances. But on the shorter shots, dispersions are tight enough that it starts to make sense to aim closer to pin locations instead of dead center of the green (ie. the specific examples you and @cnosil have already gone into on a few holes).

I fully admit my engineering brain kicks in and I want to make sure I have all the data to show the "true" story, and sometimes I can take that too far. But I'd just want to know for sure that your data is showing the most accurate depiction of your actual game. I do know messing with Arccos during the round is kinda tedious, so I don't blame you for not setting pin locations.

[Shankster]

1 hour ago, ncwoz said:

Really interesting read here so far, I think the only thing I might want to chime in on. I'm wondering if it might be a good idea to start marking pins in Arccos if you're really going to try to understand how many strokes you're gaining/losing over this distance.

From say 150-200 yards wherever Arccos drops the pins (just in the middle as default ?) probably averages out pretty well since most players are more or less aiming for the middle of the green over those distances. But on the shorter shots, dispersions are tight enough that it starts to make sense to aim closer to pin locations instead of dead center of the green (ie. the specific examples you and @cnosil have already gone into on a few holes).

I fully admit my engineering brain kicks in and I want to make sure I have all the data to show the "true" story, and sometimes I can take that too far. But I'd just want to know for sure that your data is showing the most accurate depiction of your actual game. I do know messing with Arccos during the round is kinda tedious, so I don't blame you for not setting pin locations.

I’m going to set them for this week’s round. Hopefully that will be today, and hopefully Arccos works correctly this time.

 

Like I’ve mentioned, I am an aggressive player.  If I do end up changing my strategy, it will be difficult.  About 25 years of this mentality engrained into my game.

 

But… I feel I am at the point where I want to take it to the next level.  A few basics I still need to work on, but I am leaving quite a few strokes out there.  A lot of them are just poor golf shots, but some of them I am guessing are poor strategy…. Which in turn makes a poor golf shot.

 

* next level as in maybe a local tournament, and a serious handicap system.  Build on it from there.

[Shankster]

Well, I just played the best golf of my life.  Was not the best score of my life.  But it was the best golf.  
 

I picked better targets, also got the overdraw calmed down A LOT.  Had a Seve/Tiger type save… check the shot of the day thread.

 

The shots that I did lose this time was an OB drive.  Being behind a tree on a Par 5 followed by a chunked 7 iron… and a chip that checked up way too much…. And a misjudged approach shot, more wind than I expected and landed in the bunker. 
 

If I continue to pick these better spots… the grass will be on fire.

[THEZIPR23]

9 hours ago, Shankster said:

I’m going to set them for this week’s round. Hopefully that will be today, and hopefully Arccos works correctly this time.

 

Like I’ve mentioned, I am an aggressive player.  If I do end up changing my strategy, it will be difficult.  About 25 years of this mentality engrained into my game.

 

But… I feel I am at the point where I want to take it to the next level.  A few basics I still need to work on, but I am leaving quite a few strokes out there.  A lot of them are just poor golf shots, but some of them I am guessing are poor strategy…. Which in turn makes a poor golf shot.

 

* next level as in maybe a local tournament, and a serious handicap system.  Build on it from there.

Tiger was as aggressive as any tour player that has ever played the game. NOT aiming at flags aggressive, but picking a spot and being aggressive to it. 

[TBT]

On 7/24/2021 at 8:10 PM, Shankster said:

Maybe I should just go back to blades.  

Blades are always the answer!!

[cnosil]

2 hours ago, THEZIPR23 said:

Tiger was as aggressive as any tour player that has ever played the game. NOT aiming at flags aggressive, but picking a spot and being aggressive to it. 

I believe he said he was aggressive to conservative locations.  

[Shankster]

I did move back a set of tees.  Really only makes a difference on a couple of holes.  It actually gives me as a fader off the tee a better line.  

[Shankster]

Did my own math, after using Arccos’ distances.  I set the pins this time. 

 

All approaches, averaged 18.88’

 

Arccos says: 55’ ??? 

 

50 yards and in 13.5’ is what I got.

 

Arccos Says…

 

[ncwoz]

Maybe I'm missing something, but isn't that showing that from 50 and closer your average distance was somewhere between 11 and 12 feet?

[Shankster]

13 minutes ago, ncwoz said:

Maybe I'm missing something, but isn't that showing that from 50 and closer your average distance was somewhere between 11 and 12 feet?

Yes.  But I added them all up and got 13.5.  I am no math wizard, but I can do basic addition.  Maybe they are using more decimal points than they show?