Jump to content
TESTERS WANTED! ×

The “Flyer”


Shankster

Recommended Posts

Ok… we’ve all heard the talk about how blades are more consistent with a good strike, blah, blah, blah.

 

Ive noticed that I get some real jumpers with these T100’s, like yesterday for example.  I was blocked out behind a tree on Hole #1, had to hook the ball around it to get it back in play.  I took an 8 iron to get some height on the ball… I normally hit this club around 170-185… this one took off like a missle and ended up going 205.  Luckily, it is a par 5 and left me in great shape about 45 yards from the stick.

 

I’ve had a few of these with this set of irons.  Like hitting a 9 iron 190 yards.  And a 6 iron 225…. From the fairway.

 

This seems abnormal to me, and could really ruin a round of you get that boosted distance when you weren’t expecting it. These were just stock swings, not swinging for the fences.  The 8 yesterday I expected to go maybe 160, it was not a good lie.

 

Can someone explain this to me.  I get the concept, but why am I seeing these jumpers off a stock swing from the FW?  

969140F6-1117-4FD7-A544-0C0A73A9AB44.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Without launch monitor data it’s hard to say what happened and why. But to help see why some questions would 

We’re they lower ball flight bullets?

Were they instances where you actually had proper compression of the ball compared to your normal contact shots?

 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’ve seen a few of these myself show up on my arccos and it’s made me question the flyer lie from the fairway. I can attribute some of it to getting a good roll. I play game improvement irons but nothing that would give me a 7 iron 200 as opposed to the stock 165.  I’ve never seen the flyers on the range which makes me scratch my head a bit. Ball flights have been good nothing out of the ordinary to think it’s a low flyer without any spin. 

:taylormade-small: Stealth 2 Plus 9deg Kai' li Red

:taylormade-small:Stealth 2 13deg Aldilla Rogue Silver

:taylormade-small:Stealth 2 15deg Aldilla Rogue Silver

:mizuno-small: JPX 921 Hot Metal 4-PW Nippon Modus 120s

:vokey-small: SM8 54 and 58deg Dynamic Gold Wedge Flex

:titleist-small: Scotty Cameron Newport 2

Titleist ProV1

:ping-small: Hoofer Stand Bag

Stewart Q Follow Electric Caddie

:callaway-small: 300 PRO Rangefinder

Official Nippon Regio B+ Driver Shaft Review

Official Stewart Q Follow Review

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are you a picker of the golf ball? I am not a big divot guy but found when I was playing them that there were a few that when I picked them the spin was reduced and they flew for a mile. I specifically remember a PW from 135 to a front pin that flew over the green. 

:taylormade-small:     Stealth 2+ 9 (Diamana PD 60 S 45") 

image.png.dee92ef6cebb2ac4a3883744fc248f12.png     Stealth 2+ 15 (Diamana PD 70 S 43")

:ping-small:          G425 19 (Raijin 2.0 85x)

:ping-small:          G425 22 (Raijin 2.0 85x)

:srixon-small:            ZX7 5-9 (KBS C Taper S)

:titleist-small:            Vokey SM9 45 10 F (KBS 610)

 :titleist-small:           Vokey SM9 49 08 F (KBS 610)

 :titleist-small:           Vokey SM9 55 08 M (KBS 610)

 :titleist-small:           Vokey SM9 59 04 T (KBS 610)

:taylormade-small:     Spider GT Splitback 34"

 :titleist-small:           ProV1 #23

Twitter             @THEZIPR23

 

"One thing Golf has taught me, is that my muscles have no memory."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Without launch monitor data it’s hard to say what happened and why. But to help see why some questions would 

We’re they lower ball flight bullets?

Were they instances where you actually had proper compression of the ball compared to your normal contact shots?

 

Regular flight,  just rocket balls a little flatter at the top but not thinned flat.  I’m not hitting the center every time.  But my ball striking is normally pretty good. 

39 minutes ago, THEZIPR23 said:

Are you a picker of the golf ball? I am not a big divot guy but found when I was playing them that there were a few that when I picked them the spin was reduced and they flew for a mile. I specifically remember a PW from 135 to a front pin that flew over the green. 

Yeah.  I take a minimal divot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Usually a flier is caused by a low spin ball, which is why they tend to happen from the rough which takes off spin. Of course that's not every time, a wet ball can do it too, but the roughis a common one.

You mention you struggle with a high ball flight so you might not deloft the club as much, but on the filer you deloft more. This combining with say a shallower strike as @THEZIPR23 mentioned could narrow your spin loft and take that spin down even more. Say if you are only hitting 1 or 2 down on an 8 iron, instead of 3 or 4 and then deloft by a couple more degree and you have narrowed spin loft by saw 5 degrees which will really affect spin and launch a bit lower.

 

:callaway-small: Epic Max LS 9° :Fuji: Ventus Blue 6X  (2021 Official Review) | :callaway-small:Epic Speed 18° Evenflow Riptide 70g 6.0
:titelist-small: 816 H1 21° Mitsubishi Motors Mitsubishi Chemical Holdings Chemical industry Mitsubishi  Rayon Mitsubishi Chemical Corporation, mitsubishi, blue, company png |  PNGEgg Diamana S+ Blue 70 S | 
image.png.08bbf5bb553da418019f0db13c6f4f9a.png SMS 4-5/SMS Pro 6-PW  image.png.267751aa721ee9cf3944fa2ff070b98c.png  Steelfiber i95 S (2023 Official Review)
:ping-small: Glide 4.0 50°.12°S/54°.14°W/58°.6°T PING Z-Z115 Wedge Flex | :cleveland-small:  SOFT 11S Super Stroke Mid-Slim 2.0
:ping-small: Hoofer Bag | :titelist-small: Pro V1 | Right Handed | Tracked by :ShotScope: V3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, RollingGreens said:

I’ve seen a few of these myself show up on my arccos and it’s made me question the flyer lie from the fairway. I can attribute some of it to getting a good roll. I play game improvement irons but nothing that would give me a 7 iron 200 as opposed to the stock 165.  I’ve never seen the flyers on the range which makes me scratch my head a bit. Ball flights have been good nothing out of the ordinary to think it’s a low flyer without any spin. 

Yeah, I hear you on that.  These ones just take flight and go and go and go.  And then roll.

That 8 iron really gets me.  The rough was pretty thick, made really good contact but it just kept going… 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Shankster said:

Regular flight,  just rocket balls a little flatter at the top but not thinned flat.  I’m not hitting the center every time.  But my ball striking is normally pretty good. 

This is typical of what people see as flyers. Even decent ball striking isn’t producing optimal results so when a golfer actually properly compresses the ball compared to their normal contact the balls going to travel further and because of shaft lean the club is going to be delofted some so you have now also taking dynamic loft down and turned a club into at least 1 more club also leading to a lower flight

1 minute ago, Shankster said:

That 8 iron really gets me.  The rough was pretty thick, made really good contact but it just kept going

This going to be due to grass between ball and clubface reducing spin. This would be expected as a flyer for anyone 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, ejgaudette said:

Usually a flier is caused by a low spin ball, which is why they tend to happen from the rough which takes off spin. Of course that's not every time, a wet ball can do it too, but the roughis a common one.

You mention you struggle with a high ball flight so you might not deloft the club as much, but on the filer you deloft more. This combining with say a shallower strike as @THEZIPR23 mentioned could narrow your spin loft and take that spin down even more. Say if you are only hitting 1 or 2 down on an 8 iron, instead of 3 or 4 and then deloft by a couple more degree and you have narrowed spin loft by saw 5 degrees which will really affect spin and launch a bit lower.

 

I never had this happen with my TM irons, or the Blueprints… or any club I’ve played for that matter.  It seems like this is happening every other round, sometimes multiple times.

It is likely that my swing causes a lot of it.  I do play the ball back further than most people probably, but I would think that would give me a bit more of a downward strike?

Im trying to get up this weekend to get fitted for a driver and have my irons checked.  Definitely will be looking at the data.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Shankster said:

I never had this happen with my TM irons, or the Blueprints… or any club I’ve played for that matter.  It seems like this is happening every other round, sometimes multiple times.

It is likely that my swing causes a lot of it.  I do play the ball back further than most people probably, but I would think that would give me a bit more of a downward strike?

Im trying to get up this weekend to get fitted for a driver and have my irons checked.  Definitely will be looking at the data.

Could be a sole/bounce issue.  Ping Blueprints, though blades, had a lot of bounce. More bounce is generally going to lead to a lower strike on the face.  T100 has a pre-worn leading edge and a little less bounce, so you could simply be getting "deeper" into the turf on certain swings with the Titleists, leading to strike higher on the face that is going to come off with less spin.

Couple that with the fact that you are playing a very low-spinning ball in the AVX and it seems like you might have something to look at there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

This is typical of what people see as flyers. Even decent ball striking isn’t producing optimal results so when a golfer actually properly compresses the ball compared to their normal contact the balls going to travel further and because of shaft lean the club is going to be delofted some so you have now also taking dynamic loft down and turned a club into at least 1 more club also leading to a lower flight

This going to be due to grass between ball and clubface reducing spin. This would be expected as a flyer for anyone 

 

4 minutes ago, Shankster said:

I never had this happen with my TM irons, or the Blueprints… or any club I’ve played for that matter.  It seems like this is happening every other round, sometimes multiple times.

It is likely that my swing causes a lot of it.  I do play the ball back further than most people probably, but I would think that would give me a bit more of a downward strike?

Im trying to get up this weekend to get fitted for a driver and have my irons checked.  Definitely will be looking at the data.

The T100s might be a bit stronger lofted which of course lowers spin, but given the thick rough I agree that is likely the cause of the lost spin.

:callaway-small: Epic Max LS 9° :Fuji: Ventus Blue 6X  (2021 Official Review) | :callaway-small:Epic Speed 18° Evenflow Riptide 70g 6.0
:titelist-small: 816 H1 21° Mitsubishi Motors Mitsubishi Chemical Holdings Chemical industry Mitsubishi  Rayon Mitsubishi Chemical Corporation, mitsubishi, blue, company png |  PNGEgg Diamana S+ Blue 70 S | 
image.png.08bbf5bb553da418019f0db13c6f4f9a.png SMS 4-5/SMS Pro 6-PW  image.png.267751aa721ee9cf3944fa2ff070b98c.png  Steelfiber i95 S (2023 Official Review)
:ping-small: Glide 4.0 50°.12°S/54°.14°W/58°.6°T PING Z-Z115 Wedge Flex | :cleveland-small:  SOFT 11S Super Stroke Mid-Slim 2.0
:ping-small: Hoofer Bag | :titelist-small: Pro V1 | Right Handed | Tracked by :ShotScope: V3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, jlukes said:

Could be a sole/bounce issue.  Ping Blueprints, though blades, had a lot of bounce. More bounce is generally going to lead to a lower strike on the face.  T100 has a pre-worn leading edge and a little less bounce, so you could simply be getting "deeper" into the turf on certain swings with the Titleists, leading to strike higher on the face that is going to come off with less spin.

Couple that with the fact that you are playing a very low-spinning ball in the AVX and it seems like you might have something to look at there.

I was actually using the ProV1 this time so I was even more confused.

 

I mean, I am not really complaining about the extra distance.  But if I’m hitting a 8 iron from 180 to a back pin and it goes 205… that’s likely in the junk/lake/parking lot.

Makes sense with the sole, I like the thinner sole for sure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Shankster said:

I was actually using the ProV1 this time so I was even more confused.

 

I mean, I am not really complaining about the extra distance.  But if I’m hitting a 8 iron from 180 to a back pin and it goes 205… that’s likely in the junk/lake/parking lot.

Makes sense with the sole, I like the thinner sole for sure.

Thinner sole doesn't necessarily mean less bounce (see Ping Blueprint).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Shankster said:

Yeah, the Blueprints have loads of bounce. That’s why I didn’t really get along with them all that well.

Best advice was from @RickyBobby_PR - get on a launch monitor (preferably one that shows you strike location.  This will allow you to find the root cause - it may be environmental (debris, moisture, etc), or it could simply be because of how you are delivering the club head into the turf/ball.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, jlukes said:

Best advice was from @RickyBobby_PR - get on a launch monitor (preferably one that shows you strike location.  This will allow you to find the root cause - it may be environmental (debris, moisture, etc), or it could simply be because of how you are delivering the club head into the turf/ball.

Looking for one close.  Nearest place that I know of is about 2 hours away.  4 hours of driving for 30 -  60minutes on a monitor…

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So I could pose another question.  I read an article about irons a while ago.  I believe it was a pro that was writing, or listened to.  Can’t remember… anyways.  They said they would rather have a blade iron so the face is slow all over, instead of getting these jumpers with the tech in this type of club… plausible? 
 

Worth losing the MOI to have a consistent flight?  


 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Shankster said:

So I could pose another question.  I read an article about irons a while ago.  I believe it was a pro that was writing, or listened to.  Can’t remember… anyways.  They said they would rather have a blade iron so the face is slow all over, instead of getting these jumpers with the tech in this type of club… plausible? 
 

Worth losing the MOI to have a consistent flight?  


 

 

It’s definitely not the club causing those. There are no hot spots on irons, especially ones at the level of the t100. 
 

Something like the Burner 2.0 irons from 10 years ago? Maybe. But not players cavity irons 

Before launch monitors there were many who thought that fliers were from hot spots on irons. However launch monitors have proven that it is drops in spin and increase in launch differences that cause fliers, not random jumps in ball speed

And yes, blade irons manage fliers better because when they are hit higher on the face they lose a ton of ball speed. So the reduced ball speed and the higher launch/lower spin often balances out better. 
 

GI irons have better ball speed retention on shots away from the sweet spot so the flier is more accentuated 

Your T100s are not GI irons.  They are one of the most popular Titleist irons on the PGA Tour.

Educated Guess? Your longer shots are not equipment related at all

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like to think of it as my hulking 5’6” frame catching up to the big guys sometimes😂😂 it is frustrating though. It makes me question the arccos distances even though I can tell they are pretty spot on. It has made me think about other variables such as fairway harness and contribution from wind and heat. I’m going to do more investigation to add more objective measures to the thread when I get on the launch monitor next

:taylormade-small: Stealth 2 Plus 9deg Kai' li Red

:taylormade-small:Stealth 2 13deg Aldilla Rogue Silver

:taylormade-small:Stealth 2 15deg Aldilla Rogue Silver

:mizuno-small: JPX 921 Hot Metal 4-PW Nippon Modus 120s

:vokey-small: SM8 54 and 58deg Dynamic Gold Wedge Flex

:titleist-small: Scotty Cameron Newport 2

Titleist ProV1

:ping-small: Hoofer Stand Bag

Stewart Q Follow Electric Caddie

:callaway-small: 300 PRO Rangefinder

Official Nippon Regio B+ Driver Shaft Review

Official Stewart Q Follow Review

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, jlukes said:

It’s definitely not the club causing those. There are no hot spots on irons, especially ones at the level of the t100. 
 

Something like the Burner 2.0 irons from 10 years ago? Maybe. But not players cavity irons 

Before launch monitors there were many who thought that fliers were from hot spots on irons. However launch monitors have proven that it is drops in spin and increase in launch differences that cause fliers, not random jumps in ball speed

And yes, blade irons manage fliers better because when they are hit higher on the face they lose a ton of ball speed. So the reduced ball speed and the higher launch/lower spin often balances out better. 
 

GI irons have better ball speed retention on shots away from the sweet spot so the flier is more accentuated 

Your T100s are not GI irons.  They are one of the most popular Titleist irons on the PGA Tour.

Educated Guess? Your longer shots are not equipment related at all

 

Yeah.  Heard all points there.  The fairways are Bermuda, the ball is perched up quite a bit from what I grew up on playing.  Could be that I’m catching them a bit higher on occasion.  Long par 5’s I would love to catch these to get a little help getting there.

Approaches with short clubs not so much… guess it is all part of the game.

 

Either way, I’m loving golf.  The solid thwack of the ball, piercing ball flight sound, and the thud of it hitting the green.  Doesn’t get much better than that. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Only other thing I can think of that people haven't mentioned much is that you could have swung ever so slightly harder on this shot, @Shankster. It may not sound like it could make that much of a difference, but a 3 MPH increase in swing speed can equal 10+ yards. Couple that with low spin out of the rough, hitting it slightly higher on the face, and maybe a slightly steeper angle, this could all equal added distance with no foul play.

I will say though, maybe there is something to analyzing flyer potential by club. Could we reproduce the findings so many people have found the Hollow-body, speed insert, and game improvement clubs alike.

This seems like a job for a robot and computer to really take a look at. Everyone hears the stories of the face of clubs being hot. I've played P790s, P770s, and now the new '21 Apex Pros. I do hit an occasional flyer, even from the fairway. 

  • Driver: image.png.c67e4844d8a191f8afb6a4e307a65ffa.png Stealth 8* turned down to 6* X-Stiff, Graphite Design Tour AD XC-6
  • 3 Wood: image.png.a1548764b69c6d3406f6f9f1ab1acd22.png Sim 14* X-Stiff, Aldila Rogue Silver
  • 2 Iron/2 Hybrid: Mizuno image.png.e2dedc2a71191940659367b8fac460ef.png MP-20 HMB, Graphite Design Tour AD; image.png.f066373041037bed32d08e715a7127f2.png Forged Tec set to 17* X-Stiff, Catalyst 6.0
  • P-4 Irons: image.png.d0a79f435e2331981ac11a33dd54e77a.png MP20, Dynamic Gold X100 
  • Wedges:  image.png.5e4bb78c97a6cf70133b4dfd9b768747.png Vokey SM9 50 degree 08F, 56 degree 08M and 60 degree 08M
  • My Putter: image.png.dce9f23e6ed6368fab8361d0c072c157.png B.2, LA Golf Shaft
  • Ball: image.png.0ca81de9028caab738d4428af820440f.png AVX
  • 5.3 Handicapped; Right Hander; from Salt Lake City, Utah
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, GolfSpy_TCG said:

Only other thing I can think of that people haven't mentioned much is that you could have swung ever so slightly harder on this shot, @Shankster. It may not sound like it could make that much of a difference, but a 3 MPH increase in swing speed can equal 10+ yards. Couple that with low spin out of the rough, hitting it slightly higher on the face, and maybe a slightly steeper angle, this could all equal added distance with no foul play.

I will say though, maybe there is something to analyzing flyer potential by club. Could we reproduce the findings so many people have found the Hollow-body, speed insert, and game improvement clubs alike.

This seems like a job for a robot and computer to really take a look at. Everyone hears the stories of the face of clubs being hot. I've played P790s, P770s, and now the new '21 Apex Pros. I do hit an occasional flyer, even from the fairway. 

Sounds like a great test for MGS to take on. 🤘🏼

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...