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A guy I know for many years, who always ask for advice in golf related subject, and hoping for a miracle solution.  

Never fails, he would ask from all his friends who is better than his skill in golf and also from the paid professionals.   Over the years, I had helped him from re-gripping to re-shafting to giving swing advice.   He would do well , for awhile , then goes back to something he saw on YouTube or from another golfer giving him free advice.

He is chasing after the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. By getting " a good deal " from his fellow golfer's left over golf equipment, or by shopping on the internet.  

He knew the golfer  himself trumps the equipment at anytime for the performance.   However, he is still chasing after the Dream  by spending his retirement savings.   I had stopped helping him, after he told me " But it keeps me happy ".  So he could be "happy" in his own way without me helping him.

For an instance.  He is playing the A/L flex in his irons so he got this great deal from the PXG benefactors ( the buy one get one free deal ) a driver with senior flex set up.    All of a sudden, he bought some Titleist fairway woods with stiff shafts.   

I had given up on this dream chaser who will not take advice.  After time and again, I have to give up on "helping" him.  

Edited by release
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it’s his money and his happiness, i don’t think you get a say in either. 

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6 minutes ago, release said:

" But it keeps me happy ". 

That quote says it all.   This is how he gets his happiness from golf.   There are many people on this forum that just like to buy and try new equipment even though they know it probably won't help their game.  

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I have asked a question before of people... "How do you derive joy from the game of golf?"

For some it's score, plain and simple.  For some, it's improving their handicap.  For some, it's fairways and greens.  For some, it's just being out in nature and enjoying the walk.  For other's still, it's the chase of new (to them) equipment.

We all enjoy this game in different ways.  I guess as long as he's not hurting anyone and not doing anything illegal, leave him be.

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WITB:

Nothing presently.  I'm doing a full rebuild soon after my golfer's elbow heals and I get a full fitting.

 

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, cnosil said:

That quote says it all.   This is how he gets his happiness from golf.   There are many people on this forum that just like to buy and try new equipment even though they know it probably won't help their game

This might include myself !

But he is getting stuff totally wrong for his game and mostly did it in reverse of what the logic tells him.  For instance, his driver is a very soft flex, fairway woods are stiff, irons are regular and wedges are stiff.  Usually the longer the length , more stiff the flex.

He is very short in stature , est. 5'3".    refused to try a shorter length, kept complaining of the dispersion when he got tired and could not swing the regular length with control.  Thus his posture and weight shaft would be all over the place......

The golf industry needs golfers like him, to keep moving equipment.  Only if these golfers won't run short of their interest for the game.

I believe he keeps in the game for other reasons.  In his case, not going into detail,  the golf course is an escape for his other issues in life.  I had come to a conclusion of not really answering his questions from now on until I feel I could help his game.  

For now, he probably just need someone to talk to.  I'll stop wasting my time on the subject of how to help his game.  If he really needs help, he could get it from those who will charge him a fee and that, will test his real needs for the answers to his repeated questions.

Edited by release
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15 minutes ago, release said:

This might include myself !

But he is getting stuff totally wrong for his game and mostly did it in reverse of what the logic tells him.  For instance, his driver is a very soft flex, fairway woods are stiff, irons are regular and wedges are stiff.  Usually the longer the length , more stiff the flex.

He is very short in stature , est. 5'3".    refused to try a shorter length, kept complaining of the dispersion when he got tired and could not swing the regular length with control.  Thus his posture and weight shaft would be all over the place......

The golf industry needs golfers like him, to keep moving equipment.  Only if these golfers won't run short of their interest for the game.

I believe he keeps in the game for other reasons.  In his case, not going into detail,  the golf course is an escape for his other issues in life.  I had come to a conclusion of not really answering his questions from now on until I feel I could help his game.  

For now, he probably just need someone to talk to.  I'll stop wasting my time on the subject of how to help his game.  If he really needs help, he could get it from those who will charge him a fee and that, will test his real needs for the answers to his repeated questions.

Unless those shafts are from the sa.e manufacturer, that likely doesn't mean much.  There's no standardization of shaft flexes in the industry.  That being said, there's nothing wrong with going softer as you go longer.  I prefer a softer driver than fairway wood.  I played Stiff driver and XS fairways for the past few months.

WITB:

Nothing presently.  I'm doing a full rebuild soon after my golfer's elbow heals and I get a full fitting.

 

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15 minutes ago, puttnfool said:

Unless those shafts are from the sa.e manufacturer, that likely doesn't mean much.  There's no standardization of shaft flexes in the industry.  That being said, there's nothing wrong with going softer as you go longer.  I prefer a softer driver than fairway wood.  I played Stiff driver and XS fairways for the past few months.

Absolutely, nothing wrong with what you do.... you're just not maximizing your game.  Golf is one a the few things in life which one does not need to be good to enjoy.

The issue is not what one golfer does with his own equipment.  The question is, when this golfer keeps asking for advice where he obviously not taking it.  Even after he himself had tried and proved what works better for him.  

My personal perspective is , I could not help him on his golf game when he tries everything under the sun, randomly.  When someone ask for advice, after spending the time and the effort to help, the advice is tossed out of the window.  would you still help ?

I had also told him, for his physical make up and his age group, no miracle golf shaft/driver will give him more meaningful distance.  He needs to hit the gym with a sports specialist.  Instead, he found massage, and acupuncture...... can't help him.  

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48 minutes ago, release said:

Absolutely, nothing wrong with what you do.... you're just not maximizing your game.  Golf is one a the few things in life which one does not need to be good to enjoy.

The issue is not what one golfer does with his own equipment.  The question is, when this golfer keeps asking for advice where he obviously not taking it.  Even after he himself had tried and proved what works better for him.  

My personal perspective is , I could not help him on his golf game when he tries everything under the sun, randomly.  When someone ask for advice, after spending the time and the effort to help, the advice is tossed out of the window.  would you still help ?

I had also told him, for his physical make up and his age group, no miracle golf shaft/driver will give him more meaningful distance.  He needs to hit the gym with a sports specialist.  Instead, he found massage, and acupuncture...... can't help him.  

Curious as to how you can conclude that I'm not maximizing my game.   I refute the hard and fast rule that clubs should (must?) get stiffer as they get longer.

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WITB:

Nothing presently.  I'm doing a full rebuild soon after my golfer's elbow heals and I get a full fitting.

 

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3 hours ago, puttnfool said:

Curious as to how you can conclude that I'm not maximizing my game.   I refute the hard and fast rule that clubs should (must?) get stiffer as they get longer.

You're "probably" not maximizing your game as always the longer length could tolerate a firmer flex than the shorter length.  If you need to be educated on this subject, there are lots of reading you could find online instead someone going through the pages of details which is well known.

I always believed for the same person, the progression of the stiffness in relationship to the length of the golf club should be linear.  Until the golfer hit's his/her physical limit.  That's how I learned and proven over the years while in and near this game.

There maybe exceptions but , rarely.   You might be one of the rare animal who does the reverse of the common practice and do well , or thinks that you do well, without knowing how much better you could have been.

Sorry, I say what I see and not always correct as my wife will tell me.  But if you're using a softer flex in driver and stiffer flex in fairway woods... maybe you should get some opinions on whether you could improve from where you're at now.  Very well being that you could benefit from a shorter length with driver shaft.  Yes, I'm only guessing. Please, don't take it too seriously since I say it in the general form and never seen your game.  

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I've met plenty of guys that to through multiple days a year searching for the perfect set up. And if you read the club ho post, there's plenty on here too🤣🤣.  He could just get fitted to and stop futzing, but he's not, nothing you can do about it.

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2 hours ago, release said:

You're "probably" not maximizing your game as always the longer length could tolerate a firmer flex than the shorter length.  If you need to be educated on this subject, there are lots of reading you could find online instead someone going through the pages of details which is well known.

I always believed for the same person, the progression of the stiffness in relationship to the length of the golf club should be linear.  Until the golfer hit's his/her physical limit.  That's how I learned and proven over the years while in and near this game.

There maybe exceptions but , rarely.   You might be one of the rare animal who does the reverse of the common practice and do well , or thinks that you do well, without knowing how much better you could have been.

Sorry, I say what I see and not always correct as my wife will tell me.  But if you're using a softer flex in driver and stiffer flex in fairway woods... maybe you should get some opinions on whether you could improve from where you're at now.  Very well being that you could benefit from a shorter length with driver shaft.  Yes, I'm only guessing. Please, don't take it too seriously since I say it in the general form and never seen your game.  

I get what you're saying, but I think the rule of thumb for the driver is to hit the softest shaft you can control.  With my fairway woods, I'm more worried about control than all out distance.  Heck, even when I was playing an X in the driver, it was a Smoke Black 60g, 6.5 and compared to the Black 85g, 6.5 in my faiways, it was a wet noodle.  Haha...

To disprove the "longer club calls for a stiffer shaft", I present...

If my driver should have a stiffer shaft than my 3wd (driver is/was 2.5" longer than the 3wd), then should my 4i also have a stiffer shaft than my 9i since it's longer (~2.5" longer, too)?  I doubt many would go with that.

WITB:

Nothing presently.  I'm doing a full rebuild soon after my golfer's elbow heals and I get a full fitting.

 

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1 hour ago, DiscipleofPenick said:

I've met plenty of guys that to through multiple days a year searching for the perfect set up. And if you read the club ho post, there's plenty on here too🤣🤣.  He could just get fitted to and stop futzing, but he's not, nothing you can do about it.

I think over the years I had known him, he got fitted twice to my knowledge.  His neighbor had warned me once not to be too serious about anything with him.  I didn't understand back then.

When someone I know asked for help for their equipment or their golf game, I'd do what I can if I have the spare time.  I even helped him to set up using the air to re-grip, ended up I had to finish most the work for him.  This is after the hands on demonstration and tutoring watching him did half a set of grips without much issue.  Told him the inside tip of how to unstuck the grip halfway installed,  Showed him how to extract an old glued on grip...... all those tips I learned throughout the years.

Ended up He asked me to re-grip for him.  

Same with the basic golf swing issue.  He'd have issue with driver or iron...... I'd go to the driving range and spot for him.  Usually something very minor, fixed it, he's hitting great shots.  A few weeks later when I ran into him on the golf course, same issue or something new.  Asked him what happened ?  Either someone else gave him friendly advice or he's been watching some video on the YouTube.    I gave up after a few years.

Recently, I took a novice golfer from the beginning to playing on the par 3 in 2 months, that's 4-5 driving range sessions each month with 1-2 bucket of range ball each time.  From how to grip a golf club to an 8 iron teed up, to hitting off the mat, to fairway woods and chipping and putting.  But I can't help this guy for some reason since he'll be like a chameleon, ever shifting and changing and goes round and round in circle.   

I understand the urge of changing equipment as I'll be saying "I'm one of ".    I have a garage full of golf clubs ( as I never trade in nor throw away my old sets in the last 4 decades ).   However, this guy is a puzzle. 

We'll probably still be friends, but he'll need to find someone else to help him with his golf  game or with his golf equipment.

 

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46 minutes ago, puttnfool said:

but I think the rule of thumb for the driver is to hit the softest shaft you can control

I must be learning from the wrong side of the street.  Just the opposite of what you stated.  Hit the stiffest shaft in the driver one can swing ( with multiple swings, not just a couple ).  I could not hold back or half swing, 3/4 swing a driver.  Mid irons or wedge maybe, not the long clubs.

Once I met a senior golfer, who took up golf after retirement.  I was looking at his low flying bullets with his fairway woods and hybrids.  Asked  to see his hybrids( always ask before one touch another's golf club ).  They were low launch XS from some wholesale store.  No wonder the trajectory was so low, since he didn't have the club head speed to elevate the golf balls with XS flex.

I asked him why did he purchase golf clubs with XS shafts ( this is a guy who could not carry his drive over 190 ).  He replied, the stiffer shafts in the hybrid made better ball contact.  True, but he had no business swinging XS shafts ( no matter who the OEM is that stamped the XS on the shaft ).

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2 hours ago, release said:

I must be learning from the wrong side of the street.  Just the opposite of what you stated.  Hit the stiffest shaft in the driver one can swing ( with multiple swings, not just a couple ).  I could not hold back or half swing, 3/4 swing a driver.  Mid irons or wedge maybe, not the long clubs.

Once I met a senior golfer, who took up golf after retirement.  I was looking at his low flying bullets with his fairway woods and hybrids.  Asked  to see his hybrids( always ask before one touch another's golf club ).  They were low launch XS from some wholesale store.  No wonder the trajectory was so low, since he didn't have the club head speed to elevate the golf balls with XS flex.

I asked him why did he purchase golf clubs with XS shafts ( this is a guy who could not carry his drive over 190 ).  He replied, the stiffer shafts in the hybrid made better ball contact.  True, but he had no business swinging XS shafts ( no matter who the OEM is that stamped the XS on the shaft ).

All that and you still didn't answer the only question I asked.

"If my driver should have a stiffer shaft than my 3wd (driver is/was 2.5" longer than the 3wd), then should my 4i also have a stiffer shaft than my 9i since it's longer (~2.5" longer, too)? "

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WITB:

Nothing presently.  I'm doing a full rebuild soon after my golfer's elbow heals and I get a full fitting.

 

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11 hours ago, release said:

This might include myself !

But he is getting stuff totally wrong for his game and mostly did it in reverse of what the logic tells him.  For instance, his driver is a very soft flex, fairway woods are stiff, irons are regular and wedges are stiff.  Usually the longer the length , more stiff the flex.

He is very short in stature , est. 5'3".    refused to try a shorter length, kept complaining of the dispersion when he got tired and could not swing the regular length with control.  Thus his posture and weight shaft would be all over the place......

The golf industry needs golfers like him, to keep moving equipment.  Only if these golfers won't run short of their interest for the game.

I believe he keeps in the game for other reasons.  In his case, not going into detail,  the golf course is an escape for his other issues in life.  I had come to a conclusion of not really answering his questions from now on until I feel I could help his game.  

For now, he probably just need someone to talk to.  I'll stop wasting my time on the subject of how to help his game.  If he really needs help, he could get it from those who will charge him a fee and that, will test his real needs for the answers to his repeated questions.

I say rethink your position and derive happiness helping him spend his money chasing happiness.  Plus, you always have that ace-in-the-hole.... "see, I told you so" 😆.

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12 hours ago, release said:

Usually the longer the length , more stiff the flex.

Your thinking about this differently than I do but maybe I can share my thoughts to help out. 
 

As the club gets longer the club head itself gets lighter. Which can lead to the need for a weaker or softer flex. Then next step is to realize that a fairway shaft and driver shaft tend to be different weights as well as tipped for the heavier head.  
 

Example:  A guy plays Hzrdus Black 60 6.5 at 45” in his driver. He also plays a Hzrdus Black 70 6.0 tipped 1”(for a fairway wood) at 43”. Odds are that even though the stated flex is stiffer in the driver it very well could be softer since the fairway shaft is heavier, shorter, and tipped appropriately.  
 

A fitting should be completely independent for driver, fairway, hybrid, and irons. Never fit for one and assume that going stiffer, heavier, softer, lighter, shorter, or longer in a different type of club will work. 
 

All that to say if you don’t want to give him advice then don’t. I however see it as a guy that wants to enjoy himself. He doesn’t listen to your advice just as you didn’t answer or listen to @puttnfool when he asked about the 4-iron to the 9-iron.   Same thing in my opinion. 
 

Good luck!

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What is in my Bag Boy Revolver

Driver:    PXG Gen2 0811x 10.5* set to small + with a VA Composites Nemesys 55s @ 44.75"

Fairway:  :srixon-small: F85 5 wood with a UST Elements Chrome 7F5 @ 41.5"

Irons: Testing the Titleist T200 irons 4-W2 with Project X LZ 5.5 shaft -1/2" and 1* Up

Wedge: Titleist SM7 56* with Project X LZ 5.0 shaft

Putter:  :scotty-cameron-1: Custom Futura X5 flow neck with a UST Frequency Filtered shaft -1" with a SS wristlock grip

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, blackngold_blood said:

Your thinking about this differently than I do but maybe I can share my thoughts to help out. 
 

As the club gets longer the club head itself gets lighter. Which can lead to the need for a weaker or softer flex. Then next step is to realize that a fairway shaft and driver shaft tend to be different weights as well as tipped for the heavier head.  
 

Example:  A guy plays Hzrdus Black 60 6.5 at 45” in his driver. He also plays a Hzrdus Black 70 6.0 tipped 1”(for a fairway wood) at 43”. Odds are that even though the stated flex is stiffer in the driver it very well could be softer since the fairway shaft is heavier, shorter, and tipped appropriately.  
 

A fitting should be completely independent for driver, fairway, hybrid, and irons. Never fit for one and assume that going stiffer, heavier, softer, lighter, shorter, or longer in a different type of club will work. 
 

All that to say if you don’t want to give him advice then don’t. I however see it as a guy that wants to enjoy himself. He doesn’t listen to your advice just as you didn’t answer or listen to @puttnfool when he asked about the 4-iron to the 9-iron.   Same thing in my opinion. 
 

Good luck!

We are on the wrong page.  As, not the same club being longer or shorter.  Longer clubs as the driver, fairway woods, hybrids and no one knows the long irons these days.  

He kept asking for help, that was the issue.  He knows I could probably fix his problem but he always get back to the starting point for some reason.  He told me sometime ago that he has an accident decades ago and that might have impaired his ability between the ears.  I just don't have the time to repeat myself.  He will take more of my time and energy than my own kids when they were young.  St least my kids took the guidance and ran with it.   He might be a case of hopelessness.  

Or as I suspected for sometime , that he might be playing wolf under the sheep's skin, taking advantage of those unwary around him.  He has the ability of getting ahead in his senior group on the weekly rounds.  Not taking much and he always buy drinks with the winning.... laying low and waiting for the big fish ?  See, I was not born yesterday.  I can tell a lot more than the cover of the book.  Cause I probably read the book before.

Edited by release
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2 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

I say rethink your position and derive happiness helping him spend his money chasing happiness.  Plus, you always have that ace-in-the-hole.... "see, I told you so" 😆.

Had been doing that for more than a decade now.

He would take an offer from someone with offers that he either doesn't need or doesn't fit.  Example, there was this PXG deal for the Vets.  I think it was buy one get one driver free.  One of his "friends" offered to sell him the spare for $130.  Great deal wasn't it ?  Problem is, the driver was built according to this other guy's spec.  He told me that he could not refuse the $139 deal for a new PXG driver.  I guess, for some guys/gals, the blink is more important than the practical purpose.  He always complain of short of cash, but always buys new golf clubs which don't fit him, new push cart, new cart bags.......

I had been helping him, but to a point; I have to put my foot down and watch the fox at work in the hen's house.  As he works his way around his other golfing buddies.

I guess, I'm just stupid of being a straight shooter all of my life, but I'm definitely not a hen.

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2 hours ago, puttnfool said:

All that and you still didn't answer the only question I asked.

"If my driver should have a stiffer shaft than my 3wd (driver is/was 2.5" longer than the 3wd), then should my 4i also have a stiffer shaft than my 9i since it's longer (~2.5" longer, too)? "

Yes, and only if the golfer could handle the flex.  Ideally, the set should be oriented that way.  Ever heard some professionals have softer flex in their wedges  ?  This is not news, had been practiced decades ago.

The butt end of the shaft is thicker and will be the stiffer part of the shaft.  when tip trim ( parallel tip ) and then butt trim most of the length from the shaft, yes, it would make the flex softer or the frequency of flex lower.   Your 4 iron shaft is never the same as your 9 iron's even the shaft band stated the same i.d. 

You can find most of these information if you do a search ,  if you don't have real life experience with it.  Basic physic should also answer most of these questions.  Don't need someone to tell you so.

If you like to play a softer flex in your driver than your fairway wood and it works for you, then all the power to you , enjoy the game.    Perhaps in that scenario, you should have even stiffer flex in your irons than the stiff flex in your fairway woods.

Like I said, this game does not need to be good to enjoy it.  It's totally up to the golfer whether they are satisfied where they're at in the game or wish to play the best they could.

 

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Yep I knew better. I’m out of this. Just another I’m right your wrong type thread that keeps popping up more and more. 
 

One last note though. Your example of Pros and their wedges being softer is weak(see what I did there!). 90% of the time(probably higher) this is done for spin. I have been in this game and on many different golf forums for many years, this is the first time I have heard or read that a longer club should be stiffer.  It can be but should be is the wrong wording. IMO 
 

To anyone reading this in the future, if you go to a fitter and they say “this”(meaning anything from flex to length and everything else) SHOULD be this way and don’t try/fit anything else, FIND A NEW FITTER! They can have thoughts on what worked in the past but if they aren’t willing to try other things they aren’t there to help you. 
 

Peace out, I gotta Voice Caddie review to do. 

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What is in my Bag Boy Revolver

Driver:    PXG Gen2 0811x 10.5* set to small + with a VA Composites Nemesys 55s @ 44.75"

Fairway:  :srixon-small: F85 5 wood with a UST Elements Chrome 7F5 @ 41.5"

Irons: Testing the Titleist T200 irons 4-W2 with Project X LZ 5.5 shaft -1/2" and 1* Up

Wedge: Titleist SM7 56* with Project X LZ 5.0 shaft

Putter:  :scotty-cameron-1: Custom Futura X5 flow neck with a UST Frequency Filtered shaft -1" with a SS wristlock grip

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