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Do you find thin top lines intimidating?


Hook DeLoft

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2 hours ago, CarlH said:

Probably even lower now with the GHIN change and only counting 8 of the last 20.  Most mid handicap players really saw their "course handicap" drop since the change.  What I dislike most about the new GHIN system is the soft capping when your handicap rises over 3 points over the previous 52 weeks.  While I understand the concept to minimize the sandbagging, it penalizes the guy who legitimately had a handicap rise because of injuries or moving to a new and more difficult home course.  Oh well!  🙂 

I used to play with a guy that had the same handicap as me.  We'd always have a $5 Nassau and I'd win 7 of 10 times.  My scores were typically fairly constant while his were all over the place.

AMEN, brother!  My handicap index has risen 3.3 strokes since the end of 2020.  This is because I had prostate surgery in November, 2020, followed by a bone, spine, and blood infection that kept me hospitalized for a month and in PT rehab for another 5 months.  I am pretty sure that my ‘cap will come back down, as it is starting to do (it has dropped 0.3 strokes in the last few weeks); however, without the “soft cap”, I would probably have risen 4 strokes, rather than 3.3 since May of this year.

Edited by funkyjudge

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I never gave top line appearance much thought until I demo'd a Hogan PTx PRO.  Everytime I looked down at the club at address the top of the club looked really chunky and industrial.  That was not what I was expecting at all.  I ended up not really getting along with the club and sent it back.  I'm not saying the top line influenced my opinion of the performance of the club, but that heavy-looking top line is all that I remember about it.  Similarly, I'm not a fan of how SGI clubs look at address either.  They look like hockey sticks and they have a big top line.  A friend plays Miura baby blades.  Those are intimidating but that's due to the toe-heel length.

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I have a hard time playing an iron with a thick topline or a thick sole. Give me something with a thin, really thin topline, a thin-ish sole and no offset, THAT's what fills me with confidence. Give me a thick topline and I'll fear sending my ball too high, a thick sole will amplify that, and add offset to the mix and I'll anticipate a towering hook, coming from the sky with snow on it and "straight" to that left OoB.

I've never really understood the phrase about "confidence inspiring thick topline"... or sole for that matter. What's worse is that most of the reviewers saying that play blades or "players' CB" with thin toplines.

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My cousin in the mid 90's had Big Bertha irons, and I swear the topline was the same width as the sole!  I had TM RSi2 irons, as a factory replacement from broken junk Speedblades, and those things were chunky monkeys.  Didn't have them for too long, as the "face slots" tended to partially remove themselves, gave those to my brother who plays maybe a couple times a year.  But with all that being said, thin topline blades of today are not the same as they once were.  Thin topline + short blade length = high anxiety and "CLANK"!! In the olden days.  Think the blades of yore were just cut from sheet metal and stuck on a stick, unlike today's models that have some sort of weighted cavity in the bottom.  Can deal, actually like a thinner topline as long as the sole isn't, JPX900, 919, 921 size with a thinner top would work for me.  If I wanted to wield a shovel, I would have been a ditch digger.

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I grew up hitting irons with thin lines, so I’m pretty well accustomed to that look. In fact, I find it far more reassuring than looking at something akin to a brick. 

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10 hours ago, KurtActual said:

So what is a "high handicapper"?

Anyone without a "+" in front of the handicap index. 🙂

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On 8/3/2021 at 11:53 AM, Kansas King said:

I generally prefer thinner lines but everyone is going to be different. The problem most golfers don't realize with blades and thinner irons is the lack of forgiveness from the sole. Yeah, you may get more feedback with blades but where amateurs really lose strokes is when the sole doesn't impart any forgiveness. I would love to see more SGI designs with thinner top lines but the reality is that it's just not going to happen. Most people would agree that a thick topline is more visually appealing than seeing the sole stick out the back of the clubhead. 

You REALLY confused me here.  Forgiveness comes from numerous aspects of design, not just "from the sole." I believe the entire 'perimeter weighing' factor contributes overall.  Just having a wide sole to help put the weight lower in the club head and possibly move it back provides an opportunity to engineer in better launch characteristics and a "larger sweet spot," but if all it took to have a more forgiving club was a wide sole Nike might still be making clubs.  Swing type and conditions play a role in whether a player should consider a wider or thinner sole.  A thinner sole has less chance of bouncing off the turf allowing players who hit the ball first to 'pick' the ball cleanly; thick soles may be advantageous where you find fluffy lies or the ball sits up, but God forbid you have wide soles and thin/tight lies.  A sweeping swing may do better with a wide sole where there is less chance the sole will 'bounce' and cause thin contact.   

When I started playing it was pretty hard to find anything but blades (except maybe Spalding's Executive irons; anyone remember those?).  I played a set of '86 Titleist blades until the early 2000s, now those heads look so small next to a ball I wonder how we ever hit them pure.  The Rescue club was a great development and they are great for many shots, including long shots out of a fairway bunker, but I still cannot get into a thick top line and wide soles; for me they bounce like a saucer sled skidding across the snow causing more skulled than pure shots.  But again, that is my preference.

Edited by Subdiver1
Fixed the j" to just
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If the alternative is thick soles and heavy clubs, no thank you.  I may be a hi-handicapper but I do not prefer super game improvement clubs.  The more a game improvement club resembles a players club, the better.

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The only "intimidating" top line I've seen in recent years has been on the Cobra RF Rev. 33 irons, but I'd still love to try them out of curiosity. I definitely don't like a thick topline or a bunch of offset. My current irons are just about the right balance for what I like to see.

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On 8/6/2021 at 11:28 PM, Subdiver1 said:

You REALLY confused me here.  Forgiveness comes from numerous aspects of design, not j"from the sole."  Just having a wide sole to help put the weight lower in the club head and possibly move it back provides an opportunity to engineer in better launch characteristics and a "larger sweet spot," but if all it took to have a more forgiving club was a wide sole Nike might still be making clubs.  Swing type and conditions play a role in whether a player should consider a wider or thinner sole.  A thinner sole has less chance of bouncing off the turf allowing players who hit the ball first to 'pick' the ball cleanly; thick soles may be advantageous where you find fluffy lies or the ball sits up, but God forbid you have wide soles and thin/tight lies.  A sweeping swing may do better with a wide sole where there is less chance the sole will 'bounce' and cause thin contact.   

When I started playing it was pretty hard to find anything but blades (except maybe Spalding's Executive irons; anyone remember those?).  I played a set of '86 Titleist blades until the early 2000s, now those heads look so small next to a ball I wonder how we ever hit them pure.  The Rescue club was a great development and they are great for many shots, including long shots out of a fairway bunker, but I still cannot get into a thick top line and wide soles; for me they bounce like a saucer sled skidding across the snow causing more skulled than pure shots.  But again, that is my preference.

It was a confusing post. I was more or less saying that thin toplines are going to generally be paired with thin soles and thin soles don't provide a lot of forgiveness. Sole width is most certainly not the only determining factor on forgiveness but I personally think that it's generally one of the most overlooked. With wider soles you do get the benefit of pulling the rearward COG further back and just having a lot more flexibility on the mass and dimensional properties of the clubhead. 

Regarding wide soles for a player like you who has issues with bouncing off the turf. I think the primary problem for you probably isn't the sole width itself but the amount of bounce or effective bounce. Most wider soled clubs have overly rounded leading edges and too much bounce for a lot of people. If you want a SGI iron design that is likely going to be better for you, the Callaway Big Bertha irons of the 90s had a sharper leading edge with less bounce. I know they are old and have a unique look to say the least but you can most certainly take a solid divot with them without having to fight the club. Some of the Ping G series over the years have also been good but on the whole, it's a little harder to find a good SGI iron that has a sole that really allows a player to go at the ball. 

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On 8/2/2021 at 7:09 PM, DiscipleofPenick said:

I grew up with MacGregor blades so no top line is too thin for me. I agree that the thick top line is a turn off, Callaway comes to mind. I guess it's all up to the person.

Got to agree with you 150%--- Grew up on Mac and Spalding blades so no thin top line is too thin for me--- Still play Mac blades .  Thick bounce soles and chunky top lines mess with me--- I also do not like a lot of offset

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I perfer a thin top line when it get chunky it can be very off putting. 

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Thin top lines do not bother me.  Golf used to bother me, but I'm almost 80 years old, and I became performance based when it comes to clubs a long time ago.  Hmmm.  I have 5 brands of clubs in my bag.

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Nope.

Driver: PXG 0211, A flex Evnflo Riptide (2021). And an old Callaway 454 TI (2004) on regular flex.

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The first thin top line club I ever hit was a Mizuno T-Zoid Pro ll.  It was intimidating to look at but when you hit them …. WoW!!!  What a feeling.  There was no turning back.  Went to Titleist 990’s because the T-Zoid Pro was no longer available.  Now I have the MP-64’s.  Top lines have to be similar to those or I think the clubs are to thick.

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On 8/2/2021 at 4:14 PM, Hook DeLoft said:

Reviewers like to mention that mid and high cappers find thin top lines to be intimidating to look at, but I don’t find that to be the case for me. Now, if an iron has a very small blade and an extremely thin sole I expect it to be unforgiving, but since you don’t hit the ball anywhere near the top line, I just don’t see that as intimidating. 

What Hook DeLoft said - first clubs I ever used were blades from the late 60’s - early 70’s so thin lines don’t scare me.  Yes the narrow soles will make you think twice….but. As Shankster points out below…

On 8/2/2021 at 4:30 PM, Shankster said:

Big wide soles, and chunky top lines intimidate me.  I feel like I’m going to thin everything.

I don’t feel comfortable behind them, they are so clunky.   That is why I parked the Callaway Diablo Edges. I have a good middle ground with the SLDR irons.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, mikedevine said:

For six (6) years now I've played the Miura 1957 small blade irons. They have a somewhat thinner top line but I would prefer an even thinner top line. The thicker top lines scare me nowadays.

I am definitely the same way.  I’m not very good, but the thicker soles and top lines make a club feel almost out of control.  I don’t want the blade to be super short, but I do like the thinnest sole and top line I can get.  It was the #1 thing I looked for at the last demo day I went to with multiple manufacturers.

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Not really as it was the kind of iron I learned on.  I've gotten to like the look of a thin to thin-ish top line.  A short blade length combined with a thin top line?  Then that would would be intimidating.  I tend to be more precise (as precise a semi-learned hack can be) with them.  My last set of irons I played with were Wilson Fi5s which was a combo perimeter weighted (3-7)/blade set (8-PW) and it still is one of my favorite sets.  I've now gone over to a full forged cavity back set of Titleist 712CBs.  The former has thin top lines while the latter, thin - ish.  Hehe.  Both I can hit solidly with some regularity and yes, the 712s are slightly easier.  I've tried the Mizuno JPX irons and those had thick top lines and quickly lost interest because I couldn't get comfortable looking at a huge clubhead.

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9 hours ago, Kansas King said:

It was a confusing post. I was more or less saying that thin toplines are going to generally be paired with thin soles and thin soles don't provide a lot of forgiveness. Sole width is most certainly not the only determining factor on forgiveness but I personally think that it's generally one of the most overlooked. With wider soles you do get the benefit of pulling the rearward COG further back and just having a lot more flexibility on the mass and dimensional properties of the clubhead. 

Regarding wide soles for a player like you who has issues with bouncing off the turf. I think the primary problem for you probably isn't the sole width itself but the amount of bounce or effective bounce. Most wider soled clubs have overly rounded leading edges and too much bounce for a lot of people. If you want a SGI iron design that is likely going to be better for you, the Callaway Big Bertha irons of the 90s had a sharper leading edge with less bounce. I know they are old and have a unique look to say the least but you can most certainly take a solid divot with them without having to fight the club. Some of the Ping G series over the years have also been good but on the whole, it's a little harder to find a good SGI iron that has a sole that really allows a player to go at the ball. 

Gotcha. Thanks for making it a discussion and not a contestation.  Yes, agree, bounce and sole width are not mutual, they can be separated.  I like the thin line and sharp leading edge so I can pick the ball off tight lies, or cut through wet turf without bouncing off and thinning or skulking shots, but I do realize that is what works for me, and in most of the conditions I play. 

Oh God, Callaway and BB are like asking me if I'd want liver and onions or tripe for dinner 🤮.  I couldn't hit the old BB metals; buck hooked them so bad the ball went left and circled back around and landed 2" to the right of where I originally hit it from.  I will, however admit, that I hit the Apex last year and found them to be very playable, looked good at address and felt good on contact. The old Ping Eye 2 was another club I could never feel comfortable behind; guess we could add that to the Executive as a 70s-80s alternative to blades.

The I500 was another iron that I found attractive and nice to hit.  Thanks again.

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On 8/2/2021 at 3:14 PM, Hook DeLoft said:

Reviewers like to mention that mid and high cappers find thin top lines to be intimidating to look at, but I don’t find that to be the case for me. Now, if an iron has a very small blade and an extremely thin sole I expect it to be unforgiving, but since you don’t hit the ball anywhere near the top line, I just don’t see that as intimidating. 

As long as it has CG, I don’t mind thin top lines

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I much prefer the look of my MP32 to the MX23 I had before. Just looks cleaner to my eye and I think the smaller head also focuses my eye better. 

Thick top lines just look too big to me. 

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