X-flex for Senior ?

[release]

Anyone here near or in their senior age ( golf =50+ ) still sporting an X-flex in any of their golf clubs ?

In my youth, with only the steel shaft available, I used a range of steel shafts in the drivers.  S-300, S-400, X-100, X-200.  Was drifting towards the S-300 in my late 30's for more distance when the graphite shafts hit the market.  Didn't quite like the first few generations of the quality so back to the steel shaft.  In the late 80's and 90's when the technology / material for manufacturing the graphite shaft made a huge leap forward.  

Tried the OEM S flex then settled on the 70-80gm range X flex.  Then to the aftermarket X flex.  getting 50 years of age was a big leap in golf, all the things I had done in the past had come back one by one and gradually the irons went to stiff flex and the driver stayed in the X flex range.  After crossing the 60 , moved to light weight X flex in the mid to high 60 gm and still get it out there with most of the amateurs.

Just wondering if any of the members here still porting X flex in the driver at or over the number 50 in life ?

I honestly believe the age alone is not the determine factor of how we swing the golf club.  I do, have a very aggressive pass through the golf ball.  My childhood golf idol , Mr. Ben Hogan still swing away with XS steel shaft into his 70's.  The difference was that he no longer could swing that telephone pole more than a few times instead of hours on the driving range.

I would feel a bit out of my place swinging an X flex driver in the back nine, sometimes when I walked the hilly course with temperature over 80 F.  not as durable as the younger me and the stamina is obviously lower.  

So, guys, are you still sporting an X flex in your driver, that is , if you ever tried the stiffer flex in the driver instead of letting people tell you which flex "you" should be playing ?   My hero was 5'8'-9" less than 150 lbs.  was one of the longer driver on tour in his era.  Technic could not beat the father Time.

I might finally switch to a stiff flex in the driver soon.  A serious consideration when I qualified for super senior green fee.

[Shapotomous]

I am well over 50 & still playing an Accra M5 flex in my driver even though my SS is on the low end at 105 of their charts.  I like the control of the stiffer flex for the straighter ball flight it gives me.  I think I am getting about 240 plus roll out on most on course drives so the distance has not been detrimental yet.  My Grint stats tell me I am hitting over 70% fairways and my misses this year have been close to the fairway so the accuracy offsets any marginal distance increase for my game a softer flex might add.  

I tried a few other shafts in stiff and even R flex but the softer the flex the wider the dispersion and I did not prefer that.  I am hitting longer irons and sometimes even a hybrid into a longer par 4 so i need to be in shorter grass for the second shot to make that work.  If i was hitting 8i or less on those holes than the bomb and gouge might be a good recipe for lower scores.

[release]

4 hours ago, Shapotomous said:

Accra M5 flex in my driver even though my SS is on the low end at 105

That's a nice shaft.  Do you feel the shaft is still playable in the back nine ?   My swing speed is close to 103-106 , but I no longer could swing that all day.  Mostly favor a softer flex in the back nine.  20-30 driving range swing with put me out of sync from being tired.  

I'm moving toward something which I could swing all day without getting out of sync from over swinging.  Going through my shop and found this, Fujikura Rombax  6X07, it should play just a hair under 45" in my driver.  It should work well in the natural setting on an 8 degree head.  I have other old shafts in the shop and just might make a spare or two with the stiff flex for next week's driving range session. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

Stop worrying about flex as the sole determining factors. Find a good fitter will find a weight and profile that works for you.

Theres no standard in fkex across the industry and within a shaft manufacturer their flexes will play different in their various lines. One could play a 70g stiff in the hzrdus line and be in a 70g x stiff from Mitsubishi and have similar results. Also some shafts may work in one head and not work in a different club manufacturers head

 

[jtgavigan]

Wrong file uploaded. See below.

Edited August 4, 2021 by jtgavigan

[jtgavigan]

Exactly 50 here. X flex pretty much everywhere. Numbers from my driver and a PING 3 wood with various X flex shafts last week.

[Tom the Golf Nut]

I let the fitter do all the work and we decide what gives me the best results. My set up does not make sense but it works perfectly. I'm in my early 60's and my driver is a soft regular, woods are regular, irons are stiff.  

From manufacturer to manufacturer what works best will be different. As an example I was fit into a G400 driver with a stock soft regular flex and I have great results. 240 yards out straight as an arrow. I hit 13 fairways every round usually dead center. I was recently fit to a Titleist Ti1 with a stiff flex and had the exact same results with a little more distance. Not enough to justify a $550.00 purchase. But when the new models come out I'll look for a left over or mint used. My Titleist fitter explained that the shaft and head were super light and this increased my swing speed which required a stiff shaft to get me the proper spin and launch angle. 

So I don't get hung up on flex its all about the combination that makes it all perform.  

[release]

19 hours ago, jtgavigan said:

Exactly 50 here. X flex pretty much everywhere. Numbers from my driver and a PING 3 wood with various X flex shafts last week.

Your driver club head speed at 50 is about where I was at 45, that was a long time ago.  I wish I could have it back.

Also depending on your transition and whether you're a digger or sweeper with the follow through.   

No doubt you could play the X flex "everywhere".   How would you feel after the 18 ?  Would you feel like , okay that's good and I'll hit the 19th and see what they have ; or, I ain't got enough, let's go for another 18 ?

I ask this because i could still swing an XS flex even in a 43"-44" X-100 or S-400 now, but limited to a dozen swing for comfort.  Where in my youth, I could hit buckets of range ball and feel "normal ".

 

[release]

8 hours ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

I let the fitter do all the work and we decide what gives me the best results. My set up does not make sense but it works perfectly. I'm in my early 60's and my driver is a soft regular, woods are regular, irons are stiff. 

Darn it Tom, you're from the other side of the street , LOL.......

The fitting is "great" but seldom do golfers understand the tools is as good as how we use it and how we interpret the result.  So, have you been satisfied with your fitted set of golf clubs ?  

I had always believed that the length of the golf club gave the "issue" with timing.  How one deliver the club head to the golf ball says a lot of what type of golfer this person is.   

I had been fitted ( not with a launch monitor back 4 decades ago. ) to a stiff to regular flex in driver.  Over the years, I regret not trying out the other side of the formula.  I actually started playing XS in driver in my late 30's.  Simply because , only the professionals can use those telephone pole; so they said to me.

one's hand and finger strength has a lot to say about how fast one could accelerate through the golf ball.  I had known "Randy" an assistant pro about 35 years ago.  He was slender, but he could hit his 8 iron flying 180 back then with a properly lofted iron ( not the jacked up loft for todays' ) and won many bets on the driving range at $5 a piece when the minimum hourly wage was less than doublt digit.  His hands were large like a catcher's mat.   Another guy who teetered on qualifying for the professional tour "Joe" was not a big / tall person, 5'9" ish ?  He was one of the few golfers I personally knew back then, who could hit the one iron well.  I loved my long irons back then, but stopped at the deuce.

So, did you have success on the golf course with the "fitted" golf clubs in the reversal of the normal order  ?  Beware of how the results are interpreted , sometimes it's kinked to favor the benefit of "the fitted " 

 

[Shapotomous]

2 hours ago, release said:

......

So, did you have success on the golf course with the "fitted" golf clubs in the reversal of the normal order  ?  Beware of how the results are interpreted , sometimes it's kinked to favor the benefit of "the fitted " 

 

I'm not sure I understand your post completely, but if you are asking @Tom the Golf Nut if he has success on the course with his fitted clubs, I'd say his sub 1.0 handicap is evidence his clubs work for him!  

You asked earlier if I was tired on the back 9 but swinging the M5 12 or 13 times during a round doesn't wear me down.

[release]

7 minutes ago, Shapotomous said:

You asked earlier if I was tired on the back 9 but swinging the M5 12 or 13 times during a round doesn't wear me down.

Great ! that was what I was asking.

I'll get tired of swinging the stiffer flex after the 18 or after 25/35 swings at the driving range.  Obviously, you still have a lot more in reserve.  Have fun and enjoy it.

 

[jtgavigan]

2 hours ago, release said:

Your driver club head speed at 50 is about where I was at 45, that was a long time ago.  I wish I could have it back.

Also depending on your transition and whether you're a digger or sweeper with the follow through.   

No doubt you could play the X flex "everywhere".   How would you feel after the 18 ?  Would you feel like , okay that's good and I'll hit the 19th and see what they have ; or, I ain't got enough, let's go for another 18 ?

I ask this because i could still swing an XS flex even in a 43"-44" X-100 or S-400 now, but limited to a dozen swing for comfort.  Where in my youth, I could hit buckets of range ball and feel "normal ".

 

No worries at all on the back 9. I have had several range sessions in the 1 1/2 to 2 hour range. (2 to 2 1/2 ish large buckets) No issues. I have played 27 this year a few times and only the heat and humidity kill me. 

I could easily hit a large bucket and then play 18. I am definitely not a digger, much more of a sweeper.

I will say I built a 4 iron with a straight in X100 taper tip this week. It is stiffer and more harsh than my Sensicore x100 shafts. I need to soft step an X100 once or twice to get the feel I want. It performed fine,  just felt bad. 

I am 5'8" and 165-170lbs, and I work out several days a week (weights and body weight stuff plus 2 pilates classes). I have always been strong and had good fast twitch muscles. 

[jtgavigan]

Here is my driver swing from a few months back. I was hitting a 44.5" driver and swinging it 107-109.

 

[release]

9 minutes ago, jtgavigan said:

No worries at all on the back 9. I have had several range sessions in the 1 1/2 to 2 hour range. (2 to 2 1/2 ish large buckets) No issues. I have played 27 this year a few times and only the heat and humidity kill me. 

I could easily hit a large bucket and then play 18. I am definitely not a digger, much more of a sweeper.

I will say I built a 4 iron with a straight in X100 taper tip this week. It is stiffer and more harsh than my Sensicore x100 shafts. I need to soft step an X100 once or twice to get the feel I want. It performed fine,  just felt bad. 

I am 5'8" and 165-170lbs, and I work out several days a week (weights and body weight stuff plus 2 pilates classes). I have always been strong and had good fast twitch muscles. 

I hope you'll get the look -  a check in the bag from the group  like I had .  Some younger golfers like to check on what you have after yo hit a nice drive .  Exceeding what they've expected from you.... LOL .

[release]

4 minutes ago, jtgavigan said:

Here is my driver swing from a few months back. I was hitting a 44.5" driver and swinging it 107-109.

 

Very nice and not old man golf there, for SURE !  Excellent balance and chasing after the golf ball.

[jtgavigan]

People have shaken their head at me for years. I am not big and my swing is fairly smooth. One guy keeps telling me I am the longest short guy he has ever seen and keeps telling me he just doesnt see where I generate that power from. Good mechanics, I am quick, and I hit it solid a lot. 

There is a young guy I play with who has dabbled on mini tours who knocks it 30 yards past me regularly. He is my size or slightly shorter. It is ridiculous. 

[jtgavigan]

Just now, release said:

Very nice and not old man golf there, for SURE !  Excellent balance and chasing after the golf ball.

Thanks! Not old man golf yet. That is why I try to stay in shape.

[Tom the Golf Nut]

4 hours ago, release said:

Darn it Tom, you're from the other side of the street , LOL.......

The fitting is "great" but seldom do golfers understand the tools is as good as how we use it and how we interpret the result.  So, have you been satisfied with your fitted set of golf clubs ?  

I had always believed that the length of the golf club gave the "issue" with timing.  How one deliver the club head to the golf ball says a lot of what type of golfer this person is.   

I had been fitted ( not with a launch monitor back 4 decades ago. ) to a stiff to regular flex in driver.  Over the years, I regret not trying out the other side of the formula.  I actually started playing XS in driver in my late 30's.  Simply because , only the professionals can use those telephone pole; so they said to me.

one's hand and finger strength has a lot to say about how fast one could accelerate through the golf ball.  I had known "Randy" an assistant pro about 35 years ago.  He was slender, but he could hit his 8 iron flying 180 back then with a properly lofted iron ( not the jacked up loft for todays' ) and won many bets on the driving range at $5 a piece when the minimum hourly wage was less than doublt digit.  His hands were large like a catcher's mat.   Another guy who teetered on qualifying for the professional tour "Joe" was not a big / tall person, 5'9" ish ?  He was one of the few golfers I personally knew back then, who could hit the one iron well.  I loved my long irons back then, but stopped at the deuce.

So, did you have success on the golf course with the "fitted" golf clubs in the reversal of the normal order  ?  Beware of how the results are interpreted , sometimes it's kinked to favor the benefit of "the fitted " 

 

Well the proof is in the pudding! My handicap was 3.5 after 30 years of playing. Now it is currently .8. This change is due to the fittings and equipment changes. So everything is clicking with this set up for me. I did all this over the last two years or so.  The G400 driver I got as a year old left over based on the MGS reviews and got fitted. I waited a year and picked one up. The 699 Pro Irons were last year from a wonderful testing opportunity from MGS which got me out of game Improvment irons and into players distance irons.

[release]

8 hours ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

Well the proof is in the pudding! My handicap was 3.5 after 30 years of playing. Now it is currently .8. This change is due to the fittings and equipment changes. So everything is clicking with this set up for me. I did all this over the last two years or so.  The G400 driver I got as a year old left over based on the MGS reviews and got fitted. I waited a year and picked one up. The 699 Pro Irons were last year from a wonderful testing opportunity from MGS which got me out of game Improvment irons and into players distance irons.

I had never disputed the modern equipment help the game.  If the softer driver ( longer length ) fits you, then it fits you.  It'll probably not because of it fit in the general term but you.   Have you tried regular flex also with the shorter sticks ?  Probably should.

I had seen golfers swing the driver differently than other sticks.  Not that I had seen your golf swing on video or in person, apologize for the assumption here.  If you look into the data collected from the given information ( as it may not be all truthful), most the professionals , showed different.   Not disputing your case, by the way , congratulation on the scratch status,  maybe you'll go to the plus side if you get fitted each new season ?

Out of curiosity, how many rounds of golf you had played/ season while maintaining the 3.5 index , and how many rounds of golf you averaged to get to the 0.8 ?    Maybe, you deserved the scratch status long ago, had you had the same playing /practice time ?   35 years of golfing, qualifies you as an official golf nuts, and there are lots of us around but not many had achieved the single index status. 

I'll check around when I have time to make sure my opinion on the stiffest flex one could handle on the driver shaft for better result, is still true these days.  Maybe the new golf shaft technology combined with the new head design will allow for tighter dispersion pattern for the drivers.  Honestly, I had no hands on with the new drivers in the last 4-5 years now.  Didn't see any improvements for the professionals except for the average distance are up in numbers.   

One of the guys tested the New Ping G400 driver when it came out and he was very impressed of how straight the driver was.  He is still holding the same index after the purchase but, the distance and the fairway hits were improved from his other old ( 6 years ) driver.  Obviously technology worked, 

[RickyBobby_PR]

8 minutes ago, release said:

I'll check around when I have time to make sure my opinion on the stiffest flex one could handle on the driver shaft for better result, is still true these days. 

Flex like swing speed is just a starting point for most fitters today especially the good ones. Finding a weight and launch/shaft profile along with feel so what fitters use to dial in a setup. With launch monitors fitters have a lot more data available to them than the days of swing speed = flex and swing the stiffest you can handle.

between watching ball flight, feedback from the golfer and the launch monitor data they can get someone in the right shaft that would make some scratch their head in how and why that person would be in that flex. There’s been several posts across this forum id people ending up in shafts/flexes they wouldn’t have picked for themselves. @Golfspy_CG2 is one that comes to mind if going from a regular or senior flex into a stiff flex in the same weight iirc and gained distance despite having around a 90mph swing speed 

[jtgavigan]

2 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Flex like swing speed is just a starting point for most fitters today especially the good ones. Finding a weight and launch/shaft profile along with feel so what fitters use to dial in a setup. With launch monitors fitters have a lot more data available to them than the days of swing speed = flex and swing the stiffest you can handle.

between watching ball flight, feedback from the golfer and the launch monitor data they can get someone in the right shaft that would make some scratch their head in how and why that person would be in that flex. There’s been several posts across this forum id people ending up in shafts/flexes they wouldn’t have picked for themselves. @Golfspy_CG2 is one that comes to mind if going from a regular or senior flex into a stiff flex in the same weight iirc and gained distance despite having around a 90mph swing speed 

Completely agree. For me, it is about spin control (high spin player) and dispersion. Feel is also important,  but the first two are more important to me in long clubs.I have seen people who swing faster than me in softer flexes. 

I have long contemplated softer flexes in wedges, as most pros play softer flexes in them. I had reshafted some old snake eyes wedges with r flex score shafts and hit them recently. I loved them. I will experiment one day. I could probably play s flex in my irons with no real losses honestly.

@release, I saw your points in another thread about flex and you need to rethink things. Times have changed. Many players (most pros) go softer in shorter clubs for more spin, softer feel, etc. Just go through some witb for players and you will see this. 

Everything is dependent on how you deliver the club. Guys like Koepka and DJ (from what I recall) play higher lofted drivers and shafts that are higher launch than me (softer mid/butt sections) and they swing way faster than me. I am sure their hands are more ahead and they deloft the club at impact. I am the opposite - my hands are typically behind the club a bit at impact. I hit the ball high and spin it a lot, especially in longer clubs. I play a lot more knockdown and controlled shots with short irons and wedges and can get my hands ahead. So, I can play softer flexes and different profiles.

There is no real cut and dry rules anymore. Data, feel, and the eye test all should be used.

[fixyurdivot]

On 8/3/2021 at 3:31 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

Stop worrying about flex as the sole determining factors. Find a good fitter will find a weight and profile that works for you.

Theres no standard in fkex across the industry and within a shaft manufacturer their flexes will play different in their various lines. One could play a 70g stiff in the hzrdus line and be in a 70g x stiff from Mitsubishi and have similar results. Also some shafts may work in one head and not work in a different club manufacturers head

 

My True Spec fitter pretty much said the same thing about shaft flex and pairing certain heads with certain shafts.  He told me that I wouldn't believe the number of customers who are hung up on shaft flex... some ultimately not choosing the one that posts the best numbers.  I had no issues/hang-up about shaft flex but, to be honest, might have felt a little ashamed had the "senior flex" options come out off the rack.  I'm 60 with a driver ss ~92 which by many "standard charts" has me on the R vs. S fence rail.  He moved me from PING Alta CB S to the KBS Tour 50 Cat 2 (R) and my distance and FIR have improved.

In answer to your question, if X-Flex in a particular shaft produces the best numbers, go with it.  Also, 50 may be senior designation for the tour but you'll find the 60 and over crowd not giving you any slack on the courses . 

[RickyBobby_PR]

10 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

My True Spec fitter pretty much said the same thing about shaft flex and pairing certain heads with certain shafts.  He told me that I wouldn't believe the number of customers who are hung up on shaft flex... some ultimately not choosing the one that posts the best numbers.  I had no issues/hang-up about shaft flex but, to be honest, might have felt a little ashamed had the "senior flex" options come out off the rack.  I'm 60 with a driver ss ~92 which by many "standard charts" has me on the R vs. S fence rail.  He moved me from PING Alta CB S to the KBS Tour 50 Cat 2 (R) and my distance and FIR have improved.

In answer to your question, if X-Flex in a particular shaft produces the best numbers, go with it.  Also, 50 may be senior designation for the tour but you'll find the 60 and over crowd not giving you any slack on the courses . 

Yeah the swing speed, age and to some extent wrist to floor mentality has stuck around in golf for well past it’s usefulness. But unfortunately both shaft and club manufacturers have to use something to designate specs for those who buy off the rack and based on what they know/been told about equipment in the old days.

Unfortunately ego for even those of us who have the knowledge of designs and ball flights have out bias towards a certain flex stamped on the club or the weight and for some the loft.

I am pretty sure a recoil 95 stiff in the jpx 921 or even the modus 105 in some other irons I’ve messed with but mentally I can’t get past the shaft weight and recoil 110 is the lightest I try to go 

[Tom the Golf Nut]

10 hours ago, release said:

I had never disputed the modern equipment help the game.  If the softer driver ( longer length ) fits you, then it fits you.  It'll probably not because of it fit in the general term but you.   Have you tried regular flex also with the shorter sticks ?  Probably should.

I had seen golfers swing the driver differently than other sticks.  Not that I had seen your golf swing on video or in person, apologize for the assumption here.  If you look into the data collected from the given information ( as it may not be all truthful), most the professionals , showed different.   Not disputing your case, by the way , congratulation on the scratch status,  maybe you'll go to the plus side if you get fitted each new season ?

Out of curiosity, how many rounds of golf you had played/ season while maintaining the 3.5 index , and how many rounds of golf you averaged to get to the 0.8 ?    Maybe, you deserved the scratch status long ago, had you had the same playing /practice time ?   35 years of golfing, qualifies you as an official golf nuts, and there are lots of us around but not many had achieved the single index status. 

I'll check around when I have time to make sure my opinion on the stiffest flex one could handle on the driver shaft for better result, is still true these days.  Maybe the new golf shaft technology combined with the new head design will allow for tighter dispersion pattern for the drivers.  Honestly, I had no hands on with the new drivers in the last 4-5 years now.  Didn't see any improvements for the professionals except for the average distance are up in numbers.   

One of the guys tested the New Ping G400 driver when it came out and he was very impressed of how straight the driver was.  He is still holding the same index after the purchase but, the distance and the fairway hits were improved from his other old ( 6 years ) driver.  Obviously technology worked, 

For the last 15 years I have played roughly the same amount of golf each season. Once or twice a week for 10 months out of the year plus usually a week of golf away on a buddies trip.

I have several drivers stiff, regular, longer and shorter different brands and weights. But if I can hit it 240 / 250 down the middle with this combination I would not look to change or experiment. But if I was participating in a driver test that's a different story. I have a great setup to compare against. The product being tested would have serious competition.