Horrible fitting experience - need shaft help!!

[Tsecor]

Against my better judgement, i went to PGA SS for a "fitting" and walked away pissed off at the world.....

after an initial interview, we hit project X, KBS and Modus.......No DG's or any other model

I was fitted into the LZ 5.5 and we never tried the 6.5 or the 6.0 (6.0 was not part of the fitting studio)

while my numbers looked ok, i kinda thought we would try the GD 120 S300 or x100 to keep my ball flight down as I am a high launch player.....he said the PX is tip stiff and would keep the ball down......but from what i read the DG 120 line is a low launch shaft and low spin while the LZ is a mid profile....i questioned him on this and he said the DG feel is "too boardy" for me.....i never hit it.....

you guys have any thoughts on the DG S300 / X100 vs the PX lZ?

i do want a good feeling shaft but not at the expense of performance.....ill never go to PGA SS for anything other than hats and balls now...

[RollingGreens]

It helps knowing more info. Swing speed, swing characteristics. What type of irons were you looking at, etc..I don’t think it would pair well to put x100 on a game improvement iron for example but that’s just my viewpoint. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

Without seeing your numbers what you posted doesnt tell anything other than you wanted to try some shafts and your fitter thought otherwise. Also sounds like ego of being fit into the 5.5 vice something stiffer is clouding judgement.

Post your numbers with your current irons that were used for baseline at the start of the fitting and what the numbers were with each of the combos you hit in the fitting

Going off what the shaft description is on a website doesn’t mean anything other than what that shaft does in comparison to other shafts from same brand. The golfer and the delivery of the club play a bigger role in the way a shaft affects the clubs and contact and thus the ball flight

 

[fixyurdivot]

6 hours ago, Tsecor said:

Against my better judgement, i went to PGA SS for a "fitting" and walked away pissed off at the world.....

after an initial interview, we hit project X, KBS and Modus.......No DG's or any other model

I was fitted into the LZ 5.5 and we never tried the 6.5 or the 6.0 (6.0 was not part of the fitting studio)

while my numbers looked ok, i kinda thought we would try the GD 120 S300 or x100 to keep my ball flight down as I am a high launch player.....he said the PX is tip stiff and would keep the ball down......but from what i read the DG 120 line is a low launch shaft and low spin while the LZ is a mid profile....i questioned him on this and he said the DG feel is "too boardy" for me.....i never hit it.....

you guys have any thoughts on the DG S300 / X100 vs the PX lZ?

i do want a good feeling shaft but not at the expense of performance.....ill never go to PGA SS for anything other than hats and balls now...

It sounds to me like you wanted to test the DG's?  Presuming that is the case, why didn't you simply request that be included - if nothing else, just to satisfy your curiosity?  On the one hand, you pay for the fitters expertise in getting you into what he/she think is the optimum shaft based on getting your baseline numbers and watching your swing mechanics.  But, in the end, you are the customer and if you want to specifically test a certain make/model, they should accommodate the request if they can.

I'd suggest stopping back in and speaking with them about it - would be surprised if they say no.

[RickyBobby_PR]

Guessing the fitting really wasn’t that bad as there’s a post on another forum from the same day that an order for what was recommended in the fitting. So guess that fitting wasn’t all that bad of an experience 

[Tsecor]

On 8/6/2021 at 3:38 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

Without seeing your numbers what you posted doesnt tell anything other than you wanted to try some shafts and your fitter thought otherwise. Also sounds like ego of being fit into the 5.5 vice something stiffer is clouding judgement.

Post your numbers with your current irons that were used for baseline at the start of the fitting and what the numbers were with each of the combos you hit in the fitting

Going off what the shaft description is on a website doesn’t mean anything other than what that shaft does in comparison to other shafts from same brand. The golfer and the delivery of the club play a bigger role in the way a shaft affects the clubs and contact and thus the ball flight

 

Trust me.....ego is the least of my issue when it comes to golf....lol.....thanks though

[Tsecor]

On 8/6/2021 at 6:56 PM, fixyurdivot said:

It sounds to me like you wanted to test the DG's?  Presuming that is the case, why didn't you simply request that be included - if nothing else, just to satisfy your curiosity?  On the one hand, you pay for the fitters expertise in getting you into what he/she think is the optimum shaft based on getting your baseline numbers and watching your swing mechanics.  But, in the end, you are the customer and if you want to specifically test a certain make/model, they should accommodate the request if they can.

I'd suggest stopping back in and speaking with them about it - would be surprised if they say no.

I did want to test the DG's but in all honesty, i felt really awkward in trying to force it. Mainly because i was interviewed about my likes and dislikes and my overall game....once we got into the fitting i didnt want to stop the guy from doing his job and make it seem like i was disagreeing with him..... I mean, i am a 12 hdcp so my game is what it is....i am not sure fitting can help me shave 4 -5 strokes off my HDCP anyway.... im not really killing the guy because he chose equipmnet based on what i told him...but i felt like he wasnt being thorough and really didnt put any effort into finding optimal components for me...it personally feels like it was a "cheap" fitting if that makes sense.....maybe i expected more....idk.....

[GolfSpy AFG]

So, this could lead to a really interesting discussion.  I have good friend who was a fitter at a PGA SS in Salt Lake City; in fact he's about to open (and be the GM) at a new store in San Antonio in the fall.

In any event, VERY knowledgeable guy...a fitter who is an equipment junkie and really knows his stuff about shafts and their characteristics.  In talking to him, one of the main gripes he shared with me is when a golfer comes in for a fitting, and then specifies a preference for equipment to try that is well outside of what he should be playing...the 20-handicapper asking for blades with X100s kind of thing.  A fitter is challenged to gently persuade that kind of golfer towards something more commensurate with his/her skill level, but at the end of the day it's their money and the fitter can only sigh.

That said, when he first started working at a Golf Galaxy years ago, he told me he basically was only required to watch a series of videos, and that's it...he was turned loose as a fitter at Golf Galaxy solely on the basis of some training videos.

To me it seems there are really two morals to this story:

1)  Research and "know" your fitter thoroughly, or at least as much as you can.  It's entirely possible to get a good fitting from a big box store, but research the staff and figure out the reputable individual rather than just accept whoever's on shift that day.

2)  Your money, your equipment, your swing, therefore your responsibility to know your game and come in well-educated on what you should be demoing.  As they say in poker, if you sit down at the table and you can't spot the sucker in five minutes, you're the sucker.  Don't be the sucker.

Not saying the OP is guilty of any of these "infractions" but it seems to me that many of the circumstances that lead to a bad fitting are avoidable.  My two cents.

[Shapotomous]

Two things I see that are an issue one from each side.....

First...you 'thought' you'd try a DG shaft or two.... You should have verbalized to the fitter that you want to try it...whatever flex.....  If they object and bring up the reason just say that's fine, I'd still like to try it to see if the results are what he thinks they will be.

Second....the fitter says the DG feel is too boardy for you......  Maybe it will be and maybe it won't be....trying to tell someone what the 'feel' of a shaft or clubhead will be to them assumes way too much IMO.  Why not try it, if the customer says its too boardy then congratulations the fitter is a genius. 

I saw this when SWMBO went for an iron fitting and L flex clubs were pushed hard.  The fitter was 'resistant' to her trying A and R flex but I was casually observing and mentioned he may want to give in #1 because she is paying for his time whether its a good idea or not and #2 it's her 'feel' as well as performance she is shopping for.  He did and they had a good discussion about the results of each option.  I used him a couple weeks later for my iron fitting and he was open to experimenting a bit out of the box with me and I had a good experience with him.

 

[Tsecor]

On 8/9/2021 at 11:07 AM, Getoffmylawn said:

So, this could lead to a really interesting discussion.  I have good friend who was a fitter at a PGA SS in Salt Lake City; in fact he's about to open (and be the GM) at a new store in San Antonio in the fall.

In any event, VERY knowledgeable guy...a fitter who is an equipment junkie and really knows his stuff about shafts and their characteristics.  In talking to him, one of the main gripes he shared with me is when a golfer comes in for a fitting, and then specifies a preference for equipment to try that is well outside of what he should be playing...the 20-handicapper asking for blades with X100s kind of thing.  A fitter is challenged to gently persuade that kind of golfer towards something more commensurate with his/her skill level, but at the end of the day it's their money and the fitter can only sigh.

That said, when he first started working at a Golf Galaxy years ago, he told me he basically was only required to watch a series of videos, and that's it...he was turned loose as a fitter at Golf Galaxy solely on the basis of some training videos.

To me it seems there are really two morals to this story:

1)  Research and "know" your fitter thoroughly, or at least as much as you can.  It's entirely possible to get a good fitting from a big box store, but research the staff and figure out the reputable individual rather than just accept whoever's on shift that day.

2)  Your money, your equipment, your swing, therefore your responsibility to know your game and come in well-educated on what you should be demoing.  As they say in poker, if you sit down at the table and you can't spot the sucker in five minutes, you're the sucker.  Don't be the sucker.

Not saying the OP is guilty of any of these "infractions" but it seems to me that many of the circumstances that lead to a bad fitting are avoidable.  My two cents.

yes, i abslutely could have handled it differently, but TBH i was caught in between being a PIA to the guy and letting him do his job. After 10 min, i knew i wss more educted than he was on the entire process and shaft selection. BUT, i tried to ignore what was happening and wanted to let him work.  I asked him about flexes within the PX LZ line and asked if a 10g difference would be noticeable....his response was classic as he told me he plays 65g shafts in his irons......whaaaaat???? The guy was 27 yrs old, not 97.....anyway to each his own....but them he had to ask the manager if I would feel this difference....It was the most basic question ever...but he didnt even have me hit the 6.5 flex....the 6.0 was not available....regardless, i could have stopped it, asked him 100 more questions but i did feel i may have painted him into a corner with the answers from the initial interviw....idk....not sure how i feel.....

does it matter.....is running through my head right now.....i shot the worst round of y life last night and think fitting isnt the answer at this moment...i have swing issues lol

[RickyBobby_PR]

16 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

yes, i abslutely could have handled it differently, but TBH i was caught in between being a PIA to the guy and letting him do his job. After 10 min, i knew i wss more educted than he was on the entire process and shaft selection. BUT, i tried to ignore what was happening and wanted to let him work.  I asked him about flexes within the PX LZ line and asked if a 10g difference would be noticeable....his response was classic as he told me he plays 65g shafts in his irons......whaaaaat???? The guy was 27 yrs old, not 97.....anyway to each his own....but them he had to ask the manager if I would feel this difference....It was the most basic question ever...but he didnt even have me hit the 6.5 flex....the 6.0 was not available....regardless, i could have stopped it, asked him 100 more questions but i did feel i may have painted him into a corner with the answers from the initial interviw....idk....not sure how i feel.....

does it matter.....is running through my head right now.....i shot the worst round of y life last night and think fitting isnt the answer at this moment...i have swing issues lol

And despite all that you ordered the setup he fit you too. 

[GolfSpy AFG]

32 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

yes, i abslutely could have handled it differently, but TBH i was caught in between being a PIA to the guy and letting him do his job. After 10 min, i knew i wss more educted than he was on the entire process and shaft selection. BUT, i tried to ignore what was happening and wanted to let him work.  I asked him about flexes within the PX LZ line and asked if a 10g difference would be noticeable....his response was classic as he told me he plays 65g shafts in his irons......whaaaaat???? The guy was 27 yrs old, not 97.....anyway to each his own....but them he had to ask the manager if I would feel this difference....It was the most basic question ever...but he didnt even have me hit the 6.5 flex....the 6.0 was not available....regardless, i could have stopped it, asked him 100 more questions but i did feel i may have painted him into a corner with the answers from the initial interviw....idk....not sure how i feel.....

does it matter.....is running through my head right now.....i shot the worst round of y life last night and think fitting isnt the answer at this moment...i have swing issues lol

I understand wanting to let the guy work, but you can either be a pain in his @ss or feel the pain in your wallet and game when you don't have clubs that work for you.  

[Tsecor]

18 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

And despite all that you ordered the setup he fit you too. 

i know....i literally feel this is one of the stupidest things ive done.....because i felt all this and still moved forward.....i know its all on me at the end of the day...#imamoron

[Tsecor]

3 minutes ago, Getoffmylawn said:

I understand wanting to let the guy work, but you can either be a pain in his @ss or feel the pain in your wallet and game when you don't have clubs that work for you.  

yea..i know....not feeling good right now....imma go drink now....lol

[MDGolfHacker]

47 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

i know....i literally feel this is one of the stupidest things ive done.....because i felt all this and still moved forward.....i know its all on me at the end of the day...#imamoron

Don't be hard on yourself. We've all done it. I've been to a couple fittings that were less than stellar where I felt they could of put more effort into the fitting. At the end of the day, chalk it up to experience and know what your gameplay is for the next fitting.

 

MDGolfHacker

[Tsecor]

3 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

And despite all that you ordered the setup he fit you too. 

yea. i wondering if i should cancel the order and start fresh

[RickyBobby_PR]

27 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

yea. i wondering if i should cancel the order and start fresh

If the numbers from the fitting were good as a far as launch characteristics go including land angle so you can hold greens then why not keep it.

Bit of course there’s the confidence side of things and if you aren’t confident the chances of playing well go down. So if you know you are going to be questioning the fit especially if a bad shot creeps in then canceling and trying over somewhere else might be the right call.

Based on your feedback of the fitting it sounds like you didn’t do their tour van fitting but rather the regular less expensive version, correct?

[CRW]

3 hours ago, Tsecor said:

i know....i literally feel this is one of the stupidest things ive done.....because i felt all this and still moved forward.....i know its all on me at the end of the day...#imamoron

To be fair, if what he fit you into actually fits you, you aren't going to see much difference against other shafts that also fit you.  You might hit a DG better one day, Modus the next, etc.  With shafts it is more important, in my opinion, to make sure the shaft is not so light/heavy that it becomes difficult for you to swing resulting in some poor results.  

[Tsecor]

24 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

If the numbers from the fitting were good as a far as launch characteristics go including land angle so you can hold greens then why not keep it.

Bit of course there’s the confidence side of things and if you aren’t confident the chances of playing well go down. So if you know you are going to be questioning the fit especially if a bad shot creeps in then canceling and trying over somewhere else might be the right call.

Based on your feedback of the fitting it sounds like you didn’t do their tour van fitting but rather the regular less expensive version, correct?

7 iron was 160.2 yard average...42 degree decent but launch angle was 24 on average which i thought was high.....88.7 mph swing speed...

 

yes, not the tour van fitting....

 

i do not feel i gained anythng from the fitting or optimized anything....its basically the same as what ive always done....

[Tsecor]

22 minutes ago, CRW said:

To be fair, if what he fit you into actually fits you, you aren't going to see much difference against other shafts that also fit you.  You might hit a DG better one day, Modus the next, etc.  With shafts it is more important, in my opinion, to make sure the shaft is not so light/heavy that it becomes difficult for you to swing resulting in some poor results.  

weight is good and the shaft feel "active" but i havent gained anything with the fitting...its nothing new, nothing optimized and its just the same old borg data ive had for the last 5 years

[BMart519]

33 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

weight is good and the shaft feel "active" but i havent gained anything with the fitting...its nothing new, nothing optimized and its just the same old borg data ive had for the last 5 years

 

35 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

7 iron was 160.2 yard average...42 degree decent but launch angle was 24 on average which i thought was high.....88.7 mph swing speed...

 

yes, not the tour van fitting....

 

i do not feel i gained anythng from the fitting or optimized anything....its basically the same as what ive always done....

Why would you order new irons if the numbers were all the same? Unless you were switching from steel to graphite to try and reduce joint pain. 

[juspoole]

1 hour ago, Tsecor said:

7 iron was 160.2 yard average...42 degree decent but launch angle was 24 on average which i thought was high.....88.7 mph swing speed.

What was your average spin?  For you to have a launch angle that high, but a land angle that low - something is a bit off.   

I don't know much about your swing, but agree that the LZ shaft is usually for folks looking for a bit more height so it's odd that you would get fit into that.  Also, 89 mph swing speed on a 7 iron is pretty good.  I'm surprised that your yardage was just 160 - what type of smash factor did you have on average?

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, Tsecor said:

7 iron was 160.2 yard average...42 degree decent but launch angle was 24 on average which i thought was high.....88.7 mph swing speed...

 

yes, not the tour van fitting....

 

i do not feel i gained anythng from the fitting or optimized anything....its basically the same as what ive always done....

It’s been awhile since I’ve looked at numbers but the launch for your speed is probably 5* too high..iirc around 18 is optimal and your land angle right on the border..iirc 41-47* is optimal for that speed.

That’s the one thing about irons in back to back releases, most won’t see an anything significant or what most would consider worth an upgrade. In my ole range session the the 100-s they didn’t seem to do anything better in ball flight than the last iteration. They are on top of my list with the p790 for getting added to the collection but if I had the 100 or 100-s from last release already I wouldn’t upgrade.

Not sure what other fitters you have around you but maybe cancel and go somewhere else and see what happens 

[Tsecor]

17 hours ago, BMart519 said:

 

Why would you order new irons if the numbers were all the same? Unless you were switching from steel to graphite to try and reduce joint pain. 

im asking myself that right now....but the shiny new irons have me acting like a zombie

[Tsecor]

16 hours ago, juspoole said:

What was your average spin?  For you to have a launch angle that high, but a land angle that low - something is a bit off.   

I don't know much about your swing, but agree that the LZ shaft is usually for folks looking for a bit more height so it's odd that you would get fit into that.  Also, 89 mph swing speed on a 7 iron is pretty good.  I'm surprised that your yardage was just 160 - what type of smash factor did you have on average?

spin rate average was just over 7000.......smash factor was 1.5    we didnt even discuss smash factor during the fitting.....or dynamic loft which may be the real issue here....im not sure.

I am not great ball striker but can break 80 on a lot of courses because i can scramble prety good and putt well....

[Tsecor]

15 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

It’s been awhile since I’ve looked at numbers but the launch for your speed is probably 5* too high..iirc around 18 is optimal and your land angle right on the border..iirc 41-47* is optimal for that speed.

That’s the one thing about irons in back to back releases, most won’t see an anything significant or what most would consider worth an upgrade. In my ole range session the the 100-s they didn’t seem to do anything better in ball flight than the last iteration. They are on top of my list with the p790 for getting added to the collection but if I had the 100 or 100-s from last release already I wouldn’t upgrade.

Not sure what other fitters you have around you but maybe cancel and go somewhere else and see what happens 

thats kinda where im at TBH.....i was thnking maybe a club like the 790 may be good for me....i dont know.....feeling kinda lost at the moment....

we dont have a lot of real fitters near us....id have to drive an hour and a half to get to a real fitter who fit me for my 712 CB's.....they worked well for me for years but these PGA SS employees are trash if you ask me...no real knowledge and no experience.... its a shame such a good franchise has horrible fitting employees....

and there were no clubs omn the shelves to view....everything is sold out.....which is good for the sport but my god...the shlves were bare....many top level balls were sold out too....

[RickyBobby_PR]

15 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

spin rate average was just over 7000.......smash factor was 1.5    we didnt even discuss smash factor during the fitting.....or dynamic loft which may be the real issue here....im not sure.

I am not great ball striker but can break 80 on a lot of courses because i can scramble prety good and putt well....

Wow 1.5 smash that’s odd. 1.3ish is typical for the 7i.

The spin seems right but as you mentioned in previous post the launch angle was high so you could be delivering more loft cashing higher spin.

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

thats kinda where im at TBH.....i was thnking maybe a club like the 790 may be good for me....i dont know.....feeling kinda lost at the moment....

we dont have a lot of real fitters near us....id have to drive an hour and a half to get to a real fitter who fit me for my 712 CB's.....they worked well for me for years but these PGA SS employees are trash if you ask me...no real knowledge and no experience.... its a shame such a good franchise has horrible fitting employees....

and there were no clubs omn the shelves to view....everything is sold out.....which is good for the sport but my god...the shlves were bare....many top level balls were sold out too....

I would look to see who the tour van fitter is at that Pga ss and maybe do that. The p790 is very similar in specs to the 100-s and the 100-s is 1* stronger.

Sounds like you are between a rock and hard place on several areas that make what to do harder to decide on

[Tsecor]

7 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Wow 1.5 smash that’s odd. 1.3ish is typical for the 7i.

The spin seems right but as you mentioned in previous post the launch angle was high so you could be delivering more loft cashing higher spin.

come to think of it, tht is odd...cuz my ball speed wasnt in the 120 range.....i dont havethe #'s right in front of me, but my ball speed was 114.6 avg i believe

4 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I would look to see who the tour van fitter is at that Pga ss and maybe do that. The p790 is very similar in specs to the 100-s and the 100-s is 1* stronger.

Sounds like you are between a rock and hard place on several areas that make what to do harder to decide on

yea....i need to take a step back and figure it out....

[RickyBobby_PR]

4 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

come to think of it, tht is odd...cuz my ball speed wasnt in the 120 range.....i dont havethe #'s right in front of me, but my ball speed was 114.6 avg i believe

yea....i need to take a step back and figure it out....

Without looking it up I want to say pga avg is that 120 ball speed and launch around 17. Land angle close to 50* with spin around 7k

From what I remember you fall in between the pga and lpga numbers and the lpga had smash around 1.36 and launch 2* higher than pga. Don’t recall if their land angle was closer to 41 or not.

Thinking about your fitting the px lz doesn’t seem to make sense when considering your launch. They have the softer middle to help that. The standard px 5.5 or 6.0 or even dg amt would seem more like a better fit. 
 

I never got my numbers from my 718 set but the px lz were nothing but pulls for me in the 6.0 where Px 6.0 and amt white s300 were the best options.