How to get more external rotation in rear elbow at top of swing?

[Timmytoe]

I'm trying to get my elbow like this at the top 

 

Currently it looks like this 

[RickyBobby_PR]

By externally rotating the shoulder. Your current positioning isn’t a bad thing. You would just have to externally rotate as you shallow the shaft. 

In all of your posts so far about the swing so far your focus in on the symptoms in a swing and not the cause. You need to figure out what you are doing that puts you in those positions.
 
Thers lots of ways to swing a club and what happens from between shaft parallel and top of the swing is compensation for what happened between address and shaft parallel. 
 

Some questions.

What ball flight problem are you trying to fix?

Are you just leaning the golf swing and if so have you gone to an instructor at all?

One of your posts was about Hogan’s method of swinging? Have you read his book and followed his approach from the book?

 

[Timmytoe]

4 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

By externally rotating the shoulder. Your current positioning isn’t a bad thing. You would just have to externally rotate as you shallow the shaft. 

In all of your posts so far about the swing so far your focus in on the symptoms in a swing and not the cause. You need to figure out what you are doing that puts you in those positions.
 
Thers lots of ways to swing a club and what happens from between shaft parallel and top of the swing is compensation for what happened between address and shaft parallel. 
 

Some questions.

What ball flight problem are you trying to fix?

Are you just leaning the golf swing and if so have you gone to an instructor at all?

One of your posts was about Hogan’s method of swinging? Have you read his book and followed his approach from the book?

 

when you say "By externally rotating the shoulder." that means more spinal rotation? So if your spine was rotated about 80*, rotating it 100* would externally rotate your rear elbow more?

 

I'll get back to you on the other things later 

Edited August 10, 2021 by Timmytoe

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 minute ago, Timmytoe said:

when you say "By externally rotating the shoulder." that means more spinal rotation? So if your spine was rotated about 80*, rotating it 100* would externally rotate your rear elbow more?

 

I'll get back to you on the other things later 

The spine and shoulder rotation have nothing to do with each other. Externally rotate your right shoulder. This action depending on the type of swing will be done more in going from lead arm parallel to the top of the swing and moving my more so in transition or it can be done from the top of the swing into transition. Someone like a Matt Wolff is going to do it at the top of the swing as would a Jim Furyk. Some others that have a flatter swing will have done it earlier in the swing. 
 

The issue is if you have to much too early you won’t be able to shallow the shaft because it won’t be able to rotate anymore and will actually move back towards internal rotation and steepen the shaft and cause the body to stall and arms react to the steep shaft and make contact less efficient.

but again you are chasing a position probably for the wrong reason and will end up going down a rabbit hole and not solving whatever swing issue/ball flight pattern you are working on

[RickyBobby_PR]

9 minutes ago, Timmytoe said:

when you say "By externally rotating the shoulder." that means more spinal rotation? So if your spine was rotated about 80*, rotating it 100* would externally rotate your rear elbow more?

 

I'll get back to you on the other things later 

The spine and shoulder rotation have nothing to do with each other. Externally rotate your right shoulder. This action depending on the type of swing will be done more in going from lead arm parallel to the top of the swing and moving my more so in transition or it can be done from the top of the swing into transition. Someone like a Matt Wolff is going to do it at the top of the swing as would a Jim Furyk. Some others that have a flatter swing will have done it earlier in the swing. 
 

Stand in front of a wall and raise your right arm to your backswing position and push your elbow forward towards the wall that’s external rotation 
 

The issue is if you have to much too early you won’t be able to shallow the shaft because it won’t be able to rotate anymore and will actually move back towards internal rotation and steepen the shaft and cause the body to stall and arms react to the steep shaft and make contact less efficient.

but again you are chasing a position probably for the wrong reason and will end up going down a rabbit hole and not solving whatever swing issue/ball flight pattern you are working on

[Hook DeLoft]

There’s also the question of shoulder flexibility. If you stand with your upper arms at your sides and the elbows bent at 90 degrees and then try to point your hands to the sides you will quickly find out how much shoulder flexibility you have. 

[Timmytoe]

10 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The spine and shoulder rotation have nothing to do with each other. Externally rotate your right shoulder. This action depending on the type of swing will be done more in going from lead arm parallel to the top of the swing and moving my more so in transition or it can be done from the top of the swing into transition. Someone like a Matt Wolff is going to do it at the top of the swing as would a Jim Furyk. Some others that have a flatter swing will have done it earlier in the swing. 
 

The issue is if you have to much too early you won’t be able to shallow the shaft because it won’t be able to rotate anymore and will actually move back towards internal rotation and steepen the shaft and cause the body to stall and arms react to the steep shaft and make contact less efficient.

but again you are chasing a position probably for the wrong reason and will end up going down a rabbit hole and not solving whatever swing issue/ball flight pattern you are working on

One more question about that, from looking at the start of this video when does this player externally rotate his rear shoulder

 

 

Is it done earlier or later in the swing?

[RollingGreens]

I would start by just doing dry swing with the club against a mirror to place your body in such position that you desire. If you aren’t able to shiver because of mobility some wand stretches should help. If it feels like your thoracic area is too tight working on thoracic extension and thoracic rotation will be needed to complete the process 

[RickyBobby_PR]

8 hours ago, Timmytoe said:

One more question about that, from looking at the start of this video when does this player externally rotate his rear shoulder

 

 

Is it done earlier or later in the swing?

Again this movement is going to be dependent on the golfers swing and what they are trying to do. Bryson uses somewhat of a single plane swing so he’s not going to have much change of direction in the shaft which means whatever shoulder rotation he has isn’t going to change. For him it’s between left arm parallel and the start of transition. It would take a 3D camera to really see when and if he does it.

Also this is a movement that happens as part of shaft shallowing and if is dependent on the golfers movements in the beginning of the swing. If someone has a jim furyk or matt Wolff swing it’s going to happen at the top of the backswing and into transition. If they have a rickie fowler type swing it’s going to happen early in the swing but that’s also going to cause some steeping of the shaft and some hip stall and club flipping which is Rickie’s problem and why he can be hot when the timing is on but wild when it’s off. Someone like rory is going to have some around shaft parallel and moving more as he transitions which he can do because he keeps his back to the target for awhile in the transition.

It’s also going to be dependent on the golfers flexibility. The less flexible the less rotation one will have and the will need to find a swing plane that works with their capabilities 

I’m going to ask these questions again and hopefully you will answer this time

What ball flight problem are you trying to fix?

Are you just leaning the golf swing and if so have you gone to an instructor at all?

One of your posts was about Hogan’s method of swinging? Have you read his book and followed his approach from the book?

[Timmytoe]

I'm trying to get more power in striking the ball

 

I haven't gone to an instructor as there isn't one nearby

 

 

I'm follows parts of his swing method along with decambeaus

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Timmytoe

[RickyBobby_PR]

33 minutes ago, Timmytoe said:

I'm trying to get more power in striking the ball

 

I haven't gone to an instructor as there isn't one nearby

 

 

I'm follows parts of his swing method along with decambeaus

 

Proper sequencing is going to help with getting more power as is strength and speed training both of which Bryson does. Bryson and Hogan have different swings and swing approaches, not sure combining them is an optimal way to go about accomplishing what you are trying. 
 

Regardless of either swing if the fundamentals in setup aren’t correct and sequencing isn’t correct then you won’t be able to emulate what either of them do.  
 

Since you have a focus on Hogans approach which is to not hit the ball left I would suggest getting his Five lessons book and reading that along with watching Bradley Hughes YouTube videos and possibly investing the $185 or so for his drill series and following that. Or find an online instructor like Dan Carraher, Monte Scheinblum, Chris Ryan, Eric Cogorno, TJ Yeaton to make a few and working with them. 
 

[Timmytoe]

What I'm doing is I read hogans book, because bryson incorporates half of that along with moe norman

 

So I've incorporated the pieces that bryson has in his swing [eg the front arm stays pressed against the outer chest area throughout, one plane] along with the one axis from moe

 

I believe the reason bryson has external shoulder rotation is because of how he has his rear elbow setup, if you look at this video you'll see he has his rear elbow very externally rotated at setup 

I tried this myself but it's resulting in fat shots - maybe I'm not keeping my rear elbow in this externally rotated position throughout the backswing which I think he does until the transition

Edited August 11, 2021 by Timmytoe

[RickyBobby_PR]

53 minutes ago, Timmytoe said:

What I'm doing is I read hogans book, because bryson incorporates half of that along with moe norman

 

So I've incorporated the pieces that bryson has in his swing [eg the front arm stays pressed against the outer chest area throughout, one plane] along with the one axis from moe

 

I believe the reason bryson has external shoulder rotation is because of how he has his rear elbow setup, if you look at this video you'll see he has his rear elbow very externally rotated at setup 

I tried this myself but it's resulting in fat shots - maybe I'm not keeping my rear elbow in this externally rotated position throughout the backswing which I think he does until the transition

That elbow setup that Bryson uses is the same setup that Hogan uses and that you will find a lot of pros have. As you can see his shoulders and upper arms are neutral. The right elbow setup helps with proper arm fold and makes keeping the club on plane. 
 

As you can see in Matt Wolff’s swing he has some similar right elbow setup but has a completely different takeaway than Bryson and Hogan and stay internally rotated all the way to the top so that elbow setup probably isn’t your issue but rather how you are moving the club/body to start the swing and up thru left arm parallel that is affecting your swing or what you are trying to accomplish. Which is why I get back to if your setup including grip that if they don’t match with any you are trying to do you will have issues. Everything is about matchups. 
 

without seeing a swing nobody will be able to tell you what to focus on or where you are having issues

 

[BMart519]

On 8/10/2021 at 10:17 AM, Timmytoe said:

I'm trying to get my elbow like this at the top 

 

Currently it looks like this 

1) Search for "TPI assessment" and perform the tests to see if you have limitations in t-spine rotation or external shoulder rotation

2) Google "improving external shoulder rotation", find exercises, do them...

OR

3) See a physio to cover steps 1 and 2 above if your google machine isn't working. 

OR

4) Get the "Fit for Golf" app/subscription or follow him on Twitter and you will see multiple exercises and assessments over time. 

[B_R_A_D_Y]

I’m TPI certified. Go to MyTPI.com - Find an Expert to search for a certified professional by city or zip. Once the screening is complete, you will get a list of all areas of your swing that need strengthening along with exercises to do. It may be that there is more than one movement that needs strengthening. There are also TPI physical therapists that help people with major flexibility issues. A lot of tour professionals have this screening at the beginning of the week as a way to determine how to focus the week’s workouts. 

Edited October 26, 2021 by B_R_A_D_Y