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Finding Fairways?


thefullmonte

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I've use the Most Wanted heavily over the years to narrow down fitting work, but find myself with a new challenge after a should surgery.  For years, I fell squarely in the "High Swing Speed" category.  But couple years removed from being put back together and I'm right on the cusp of High and Mid; consistently around 104-105 MPH

The recent challenge is that I need a new driver, and really all I care about at this stage is finding more fairways off the tee box.  An extra 10 yards means nothing to me at this stage.

What I'm struggling with is looking at a club like the TSi2 for instance where it ranked 2nd for Forgiveness among Mid Swing Speed....then didn't even crack the top 20 for Forgiveness among the High Swing Speed testers

What is a fella supposed to do here?  ("Go get fitted" suggestions aside)

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1 hour ago, thefullmonte said:

I've use the Most Wanted heavily over the years to narrow down fitting work, but find myself with a new challenge after a should surgery.  For years, I fell squarely in the "High Swing Speed" category.  But couple years removed from being put back together and I'm right on the cusp of High and Mid; consistently around 104-105 MPH

The recent challenge is that I need a new driver, and really all I care about at this stage is finding more fairways off the tee box.  An extra 10 yards means nothing to me at this stage.

What I'm struggling with is looking at a club like the TSi2 for instance where it ranked 2nd for Forgiveness among Mid Swing Speed....then didn't even crack the top 20 for Forgiveness among the High Swing Speed testers

What is a fella supposed to do here?  ("Go get fitted" suggestions aside)

You don’t want an answer of go get fit so that makes it really hard to answer.  Would go try a bunch of clubs or even the TSi2 be an okay answer?  Why is your current driver not acceptable?   How many shots with your driver leave you without a realistic chance to hit the green?  What width fairway do you want to hit? 20, 50, 100 yards wide? 

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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If you want to buy one driver and tweak it yourself rather than get fitted than get one that has varied weight positions and varied loft / lie adjustments.  Without fitting data trying different shafts to optimize dispersion can get pricey.

Or if you are close to a place like a 2nd swing with quite a few trade in's try a few of the drivers / shaft combo's and see what works best.  

 

Modern Bag:  :ping-small: G410 LST 10.5*, Hzrdus Smoke RDX 6.5 Flex;   :titelist-small:  915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex;  Snake Eyes 18* 2h, 23* 4h & 27* 5h; :mizuno-small: JPX 900 Forged 6 - PW, PX LZ 6.0;  Edison 2.0 49*, 53*, 57* KBS Tour 120 S;   :ping-small:  Heppler Fetch;  Ball - :Snell: MTB-X; Bag - Jones MyGolfSpy Edition! 

Shot Scope H4, MG600 Rangefinder

Classic Bag:  Driver - :wilson_staff_small: Persimmon; 3w - :Hogan: Speed Slot; 5w - :wilson_staff_small: Tour Block; 3 - pw - :wilson_staff_small: Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson;  putter - bullseye standard or flange.

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55 minutes ago, cnosil said:

You don’t want an answer of go get fit so that makes it really hard to answer.  Would go try a bunch of clubs or even the TSi2 be an okay answer?  Why is your current driver not acceptable?   How many shots with your driver leave you without a realistic chance to hit the green?  What width fairway do you want to hit? 20, 50, 100 yards wide? 

Sorry, I worded that poorly.  Will GET FIT....but would like to have it narrowed down to 2 or 3 before walking in; not 20-30 options.  I'm trying to understand the difference in the data, and which is more applicable to that narrowing process.

 

On the year, I'm 20.5 HCP, 38% Fairway Hit, 21% GIR

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3 minutes ago, thefullmonte said:

Sorry, I worded that poorly.  Will GET FIT....but would like to have it narrowed down to 2 or 3 before walking in; not 20-30 options

I'm trying to understand the difference in the data, and which is more applicable to that narrowing process.

If you are going in blind to make a club purchase, like the majority of the golfing world,  the most wanted list gives you a great starting point.  If you are getting fit and even just trying the stock shafts you will come out better.   If you have a particular brand bias ,air that pick and find the best fit for you.   As one of the most wanted testers I believe that almost every club could provide good results for some golfer, even the one that finished last.  The challenge is getting the opportunity to try them so you can collect the data and see how you respond to the ahead/shaft combo

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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57 minutes ago, thefullmonte said:

Sorry, I worded that poorly.  Will GET FIT....but would like to have it narrowed down to 2 or 3 before walking in; not 20-30 options.  I'm trying to understand the difference in the data, and which is more applicable to that narrowing process.

 

On the year, I'm 20.5 HCP, 38% Fairway Hit, 21% GIR

Pretty hard but the general trend in the most wanted results usually points to Ping being amongst the most forgiving drivers. Callaway and Titleist seemed to fair well this year as well. Default to the 'forgiving' models, TSi2, Max, XB in Cobra, etc. The fitter can dial in from there. 

:ping-small: G425 MAX Driver & 5W

:cobra-small: Baffler Rail-H 3H-4H

:Sub70: 699 Pro Utility V2 - 4i

:callaway-small: APEX CF19 6-AW

INDI Wedges 52, 56, 60 

 :edel-golf-1: EAS 2.0

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From a design standpoint, almost all drivers are built to the maximum size limitations to maximize MOI and forgiveness. The forgiveness rankings provided by MGS are not scientific and can be significantly impacted by loft differences, COG differences, and whatever other design differences there are. The real question in terms of forgiveness and being able to hit the fairways is going to be determined by the shaft, shaft length, and club head characteristics, notably vertical and rearward COG to control launch. However, the shaft is likely going to be your biggest factor. If you really want to find fairways, I strongly recommend trying a 44 to 44.5 inch shaft and see how you get along. One to two inches off of stock length may not sound like much but it really can change the feel and looks of the club and lead to much high confidence. Plus, if you strike the ball better with a shorter driver, your likely not going to lose any distance.

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My suggestion (and it's only a suggestion) is before you look at new drivers, find out what your swing flaw is that causes you to miss fairways... and greens I might add when you only hit 21% of them.  If you are back from shoulder surgery, I can assure you that your swing is different, and you may be introducing compensations.  That could lead to more issues down the road.  The driver you have may be just fine once you figure out your swing.

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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1 hour ago, Kenny B said:

My suggestion (and it's only a suggestion) is before you look at new drivers, find out what your swing flaw is that causes you to miss fairways... and greens I might add when you only hit 21% of them.  If you are back from shoulder surgery, I can assure you that your swing is different, and you may be introducing compensations.  That could lead to more issues down the road.  The driver you have may be just fine once you figure out your swing.

Doing a little of both.  Lessons to get back in the good habits.  But also have some aging equipment and exploring if there is something better suited to me today than when I bought it in 2014

The driver is just a particular pain point as a significant % of the “blow up holes” start with a tee shot OOB 

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31 minutes ago, thefullmonte said:

Doing a little of both.  Lessons to get back in the good habits.  But also have some aging equipment and exploring if there is something better suited to me today than when I bought it in 2014

The driver is just a particular pain point as a significant % of the “blow up holes” start with a tee shot OOB 

Coming in here to ask about buying new (or new to you) equipment?!?!?!   Have you been introduced to the Club Ho thread yet??!!??    🤣  🤣   

Warning....do not drink from the same cup as @dlow206 or @Golfspy_CG2 or ......   !!  😱

 

A couple winters ago I upgraded the sticks....it can be a fun process learning stuff about your swing and the evolution of golf equipment.  I did it over the course of a couple months and now just rotate some clubs based on how the swing & my back are behaving.  Another year or two and I'll probably go through it again mostly for the fun.....unless I'm lucky and a testing opportunity pops up before then! 

Modern Bag:  :ping-small: G410 LST 10.5*, Hzrdus Smoke RDX 6.5 Flex;   :titelist-small:  915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex;  Snake Eyes 18* 2h, 23* 4h & 27* 5h; :mizuno-small: JPX 900 Forged 6 - PW, PX LZ 6.0;  Edison 2.0 49*, 53*, 57* KBS Tour 120 S;   :ping-small:  Heppler Fetch;  Ball - :Snell: MTB-X; Bag - Jones MyGolfSpy Edition! 

Shot Scope H4, MG600 Rangefinder

Classic Bag:  Driver - :wilson_staff_small: Persimmon; 3w - :Hogan: Speed Slot; 5w - :wilson_staff_small: Tour Block; 3 - pw - :wilson_staff_small: Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson;  putter - bullseye standard or flange.

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I think there are great options with driver currently.  You might find a few yards difference here and there dependent on shaft and head, but I don't know that 10 yards difference for a properly fitted club is there any more.  

Since you're driver is over 7 years old now - I think you will definitely notice some added yardage and forgiveness.  I'd use the MGS test as your guide, but then also take a look at the clubs that look great to you as well and instill some confidence.  Then give those 3/4 a try with finding the best shaft combo that works.  My suggestion would be Titleist, Ping, and Callaway as your starting points. 

Dependent on current swing characteristics where you would need the Low spin versions, but without having much information - I'd say the most forgiving models to start so that your overall driving numbers with be best.  

Driver:  image.png.3c6db1120d888f669e07d4a8f890b3f1.pngMavrik Sub Zero 9* (Set to 10) Ventus Blue 6X

2 Hybrid: :titelist-small: TSI3 Hybrid Tensei Blue 80 X (17.25*)

3 Hybrid :titelist-small: 818 H2 Hybrid Hzrdus RDX Black 6.5 (20.5*)

4 Iron -  :titelist-small: T200 4 Iron Graphite Design Tour AD IZ X Hybrid Shaft

Irons 5-PW:  :titelist-small: T100-S 5 - GW KBS Tour 130 X

Gap/Sand Wedge:  :titelist-small: Vokey SM6 49*  SM8 54* 

Lob Wedge:  image.png.3c6db1120d888f669e07d4a8f890b3f1.pngJaws 5 Wedge 58* DG Tour Issue Stiff

Putter:   :scotty-small: Phantom 5.5 34"      Pro Platinum Newport 2 35"      Taylormade Tour Black Spider 34"

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Going to a certified club fitter is your answer.  I always do whenever I look to upgrade.  I upgraded this year, recently from a Titleist 917D 11.25* with a Fujikura Speed Tour 64 Shaft to a Titleist TSi3D 10.75* with a Fujikura Speeder 661 TR S Shaft.  I picked up abut ten additional yards, but the accuracy is off the charts.  By going to my fitter and getting the right combination my ball goes straight and long.  Ball speed is in the low nineties, handicap 15.  I like Titleist drivers and always use a Titleist certified fitter.  I will be 75 on September 10, and this club makes golf more fun for me.  I also picked up the TSi2 fairway 16.5* and it is actually longer and more accurate that my 917f 15*.  Might suggest looking at the TSi lineup and Fujikura makes some really great shafts.        

 

Driver - TSi3 10.75* - Fujikura Speeder 661 TR

Fairway - TSi2 14.25* - Fujikura Motore Speeder VC 6.1 

Fairway - TSR1 17.0* - Fujikura Vista Pro 65S

Hybrid - TSR1 20.0* - Fujikura Atmos Red Tour 75  

Hybrid - TSR1 23.0* - Fujikura Atmos Red Tour 75

Irons - T350 (2023) - 6-48W - True Temper AMT Red 95g-107g

Wedges - Vokey SM9 - 52.08F, 56.10S - True Temper AMT Red 94 

**  GolfPride MCC +4 Midsize Grips  (all woods/irons/wedges)

Putter - 2023 Scotty Cameron Super Select Squareback 2 35" 

**  Superstroke 1.0 Pistol Grip  

Golf Ball - TITLEIST - Prov1s (2023)                                                         

Golf Bags - TITLEIST  - Cart 14 (black), Mid Size Tour (black/white)

Golf Glove - FootJoy (StaSof), Shoes, Apparel and Outerwear        

Rangefinder - Bushnell Pro XE

 

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It is not just the swing speed, but your tempo. This is why a fitting helps to get fit for the right shaft. If you like Titleist, tell the fitter. Between all their club heads and shaft combos, one will probably work.

and if your an optimist, it will work forever.

and if a pessimist like me, right up until you buy and use it for exactly 2 rounds, and then it will be as wacky as the rest of my clubs!

Happy Days

 

Driver: Callaway Epic 9 degree, stiff (set at 10 degrees with the movable weight in the center}

FW: Callaway Epic 3,5, heaven wood w/ regular shaft (driver shaft in 3 wood, 3 wood shaft in 5 wood, 5 wood shaft in heaven wood, all three set at neutral plus 1 degree)

Hybrids: Callaway BB19 4,6,7 (4 set at neutral plus 1 degree and 6 and 7 set at neutral minus 1 degree for gapping purposes)

Irons: Callaway Rogue ST Max 8, 9, PW 

Wedges: Titleist Vokey SM6 50,54,58

Ball: Titleist Pro V1, 1X, Vice Pro Plus or anything I find that day and try out for the fun of it (I haven't bought balls with my own money in at least 10 years)

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37 minutes ago, ChuckZ said:

Going to a certified club fitter is your answer.  I always do whenever I look to upgrade.  I upgraded this year, recently from a Titleist 917D 11.25* with a Fujikura Speed Tour 64 Shaft to a Titleist TSi3D 10.75* with a Fujikura Speeder 661 TR S Shaft.  I picked up abut ten additional yards, but the accuracy is off the charts.  By going to my fitter and getting the right combination my ball goes straight and long.  Ball speed is in the low nineties, handicap 15.  I like Titleist drivers and always use a Titleist certified fitter.  I will be 75 on September 10, and this club makes golf more fun for me.  I also picked up the TSi2 fairway 16.5* and it is actually longer and more accurate that my 917f 15*.  Might suggest looking at the TSi lineup and Fujikura makes some really great shafts.        

The TSi2 is the one that really has my attention at the moment.

 

But I was incredibly confused how it was one of the MOST forgiving clubs for Mid Swing Speeds….and one of the WORST for High Swing Speeds.  Just doesn’t make much sense to me

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6 hours ago, thefullmonte said:

Sorry, I worded that poorly.  Will GET FIT....but would like to have it narrowed down to 2 or 3 before walking in; not 20-30 options.  I'm trying to understand the difference in the data, and which is more applicable to that narrowing process.

On the year, I'm 20.5 HCP, 38% Fairway Hit, 21% GIR

For $9 ..... Thats right, less than a happy meal you can have access to the database from MGS at www.truegolffit.com... Well that is what I paid.  It will give you 2 club choices based on insane amounts of data.  That is a great place to start.  I bought a hogan GS53 Max.....

PS - guess what ... I got fat during rona and I need to go get a lesson to dial it in.... its not the hammer its the carpenter. 

Summation:  www.truegolffit.com and a lesson

2-PW 1997 TM Burner Tour Blades
TM Burner Wedges 55,60
My distances are still buttery and spot on.

More Hogan additions coming
Hogan GS53 Max - Thank you www.TrueGolfFit.com

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11 minutes ago, thefullmonte said:

The TSi2 is the one that really has my attention at the moment.

 

But I was incredibly confused how it was one of the MOST forgiving clubs for Mid Swing Speeds….and one of the WORST for High Swing Speeds.  Just doesn’t make much sense to me

The testing pools are not large enough to have that level of statistical significance, you also see this when the same club is tested multiple years with different players. There would need to be hundreds or thousands of testers at each speed. On the flip side, it shows how much variation there is based on how someone delivers the club head. Which is why all anybody says is get fit, or go trial them at a store. 

I was able to find a driver that was longer with tighter dispersion because my previous club was a random off the shelf pick based from online reviews and knew nothing about clubs. 

I would save the $9 on True Golf Fit... The best way is to go in for at least 2-3 sessions to try 5-6 heads with different shafts (there will be day to day variation in your swing as well). Then compare the 2 clubs that performed best against your gamer, ensuring you finish the sessions with your gamer so you aren't hitting your current driver first thing getting out of your car. Then the fitter says BINGO, this new driver increased your swing speed 3-5 MPH when it was just you getting warmed up and it no longer than your current club on the course. 

:ping-small: G425 MAX Driver & 5W

:cobra-small: Baffler Rail-H 3H-4H

:Sub70: 699 Pro Utility V2 - 4i

:callaway-small: APEX CF19 6-AW

INDI Wedges 52, 56, 60 

 :edel-golf-1: EAS 2.0

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Ping G425 Max - My FIR percentage has increased almost 20% since obtaining this club. 😃

 :ping-small: G425 Driver - 10.5 degree

 Callaway EPIC MAX 3W

 Callaway Heavenwood 7W 

 :ping-small: G425 4 Hybrid - 22 degree

 Takomo 201's - Nippon MODUS 105 shafts

:scotty-cameron-1: Phantom X 8 Putter - Original "Two Thumb" grip 

Edel Trapper Wedge Lob Wedge 60 Degree Used Golf Club at GlobalGolf.com 54 and 58 degree V-Grind SMS wedges

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1 hour ago, Bubbly Pop said:

Ping G425 Max - My FIR percentage has increased almost 20% since obtaining this club. 😃

I hit this club with (3) different shafts and all were awful for me, even making hosel adjustments as well.  I was no BS getting 6000-7000 RPM 

it’s likely all in my head, but I play midsize grips…and it feels like anytime I try to hit a club with a regular grip…it’s just awful.

the session with the 425 was just infuriating.  Yes, they were bad.  But they looked nothing like anything I hit on the course 

 

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Well I was going to suggest tbe TSi2 despite the rankings in MWT snd the PING G425 then read your experience.  Which sounds very very odd.   I would give it another look if you get the chance.   

:ping-small: G430 Max 10K 

:titelist-small: TSiR1 15.0 Aldlia Ascent 60g

:titelist-small: TSR2 18.0 PX Aldila Ascent 6og

:titelist-small: TSi1 20 Aldila Ascent Shafts R

:titelist-small: T350 5-GW SteelFiber I80 

:titelist-small: SM10 48F/54M and58K

:ping-small: S159 48S/52S/56W/60B

:scotty-cameron-1: Select 5.5 Flowback 35" 

:titelist-small: ProV1  Play number 12

 

 

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9 hours ago, thefullmonte said:

I hit this club with (3) different shafts and all were awful for me, even making hosel adjustments as well.  I was no BS getting 6000-7000 RPM 

it’s likely all in my head, but I play midsize grips…and it feels like anytime I try to hit a club with a regular grip…it’s just awful.

the session with the 425 was just infuriating.  Yes, they were bad.  But they looked nothing like anything I hit on the course 

 

Ping has a comparatively heavier head and maybe with those shafts the swingweight was in the D5 range... combined with your shoulder issue and swing may have been a bad combination?  If you try it again, take the head weight off for a wild comparison and see what difference there is.  This is only for testing purposes to give a data point toward the type of driver that works better or worse for you. 

And yes it you are used to a larger size grip swinging with a standard size will make it feel like you're holding a pencil. 

Modern Bag:  :ping-small: G410 LST 10.5*, Hzrdus Smoke RDX 6.5 Flex;   :titelist-small:  915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex;  Snake Eyes 18* 2h, 23* 4h & 27* 5h; :mizuno-small: JPX 900 Forged 6 - PW, PX LZ 6.0;  Edison 2.0 49*, 53*, 57* KBS Tour 120 S;   :ping-small:  Heppler Fetch;  Ball - :Snell: MTB-X; Bag - Jones MyGolfSpy Edition! 

Shot Scope H4, MG600 Rangefinder

Classic Bag:  Driver - :wilson_staff_small: Persimmon; 3w - :Hogan: Speed Slot; 5w - :wilson_staff_small: Tour Block; 3 - pw - :wilson_staff_small: Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson;  putter - bullseye standard or flange.

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3 hours ago, Shapotomous said:

Ping has a comparatively heavier head and maybe with those shafts the swingweight was in the D5 range... combined with your shoulder issue and swing may have been a bad combination?  If you try it again, take the head weight off for a wild comparison and see what difference there is.  This is only for testing purposes to give a data point toward the type of driver that works better or worse for you. 

And yes it you are used to a larger size grip swinging with a standard size will make it feel like you're holding a pencil. 

So a quick Google Machine reference tells me that the 425 Max us just 2 grams heavier than the current head I have (208 vs 206)

I looked up the TSi2 for reference, it’s actually lighter at 196g

reflecting on the mini 425 fitting, I’m not sure I actually used a shaft over 65g.  Current is 72g.  I guess I’m not sure how much difference those 2 or 6 gram differences in head or shaft would be expected to make 

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21 hours ago, Kansas King said:

However, the shaft is likely going to be your biggest factor.

Nope the thought amongst many of the shaft is used to fine tune launch. Head and loft are going to be where the golfer finds the right launch characteristics. Then the shaft will be used to get it to optimal levels. And a shaft alone will not have significant change in launch or spin for a golfer. This has been stated by several shaft manufacturers across various social media platforms 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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27 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Nope the thought amongst many of the shaft is used to fine tune launch. Head and loft are going to be where the golfer finds the right launch characteristics. Then the shaft will be used to get it to optimal levels. And a shaft alone will not have significant change in launch or spin for a golfer. This has been stated by several shaft manufacturers across various social media platforms 

Unless it is a poor fitting head/shaft combo.   Experience last night during 3 wood most wanted testing.  Hitting a 3 wood with a particular shaft and results were low spin, low launch, pull hooks.  Swing speed was about 102 and pin ranged from 700 to about 2800 on good strikes. Couldn’t force a fade.  Shaft was a 60ish gram stiff shaft.  We tried all the settings and moved the weighting around all the same result.  Put in a 55 gram regular shaft and launch went up and spin was more reasonable and ball flight straightened out.  Granted it was a club I would never put in my bag but the shaft did make a huge difference in performance.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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6 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Unless it is a poor fitting head/shaft combo.   Experience last night during 3 wood most wanted testing.  Hitting a 3 wood with a particular shaft and results were low spin, low launch, pull hooks.  Swing speed was about 102 and pin ranged from 700 to about 2800 on good strikes. Couldn’t force a fade.  Shaft was a 60ish gram stiff shaft.  We tried all the settings and moved the weighting around all the same result.  Put in a 55 gram regular shaft and launch went up and spin was more reasonable and ball flight straightened out.  Granted it was a club I would never put in my bag but the shaft did make a huge difference in performance.  

True on that part. But I’m betting the reason more so was how you swim the club with each shaft. The weight and profile may have an impact on how the golfer swings which in turn would change how the club is delivered therefore changing the launch, spin, etc.

 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

True on that part. But I’m betting the reason more so was how you swim the club with each shaft. The weight and profile may have an impact on how the golfer swings which in turn would change how the club is delivered therefore changing the launch, spin, etc.

 

Agree 100%, but it was the shaft that influenced the swing.  The point being that just the shaft can have a big influence on how the golfer swings and delivers the club.  Obviously I could find better fits than that head, but this is what people actually do.  They lock in on a head and then try a few shafts to make something work. My impression with that club would have simply been avoid the head,  it just isn’t right for me.    Now it becomes perception,  was it the head or the shaft that had the bigger influence. 

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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3 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Agree 100%, but it was the shaft that influenced the swing.  The point being that just the shaft can have a big influence on how the golfer swings and delivers the club.  Obviously I could find better fits than that head, but this is what people actually do.  They lock in on a head and then try a few shafts to make something work. My impression with that club would have simply been avoid the head,  it just isn’t right for me.    Now it becomes perception,  was it the head or the shaft that had the bigger influence. 

Agree but if a shaft doesn’t influence a change in the swing and the golfer swings the same with with two different shafts theres not going to any significant change in numbers.

This is also why most fitters start with the head first then shaft.

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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3 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Nope the thought amongst many of the shaft is used to fine tune launch. Head and loft are going to be where the golfer finds the right launch characteristics. Then the shaft will be used to get it to optimal levels. And a shaft alone will not have significant change in launch or spin for a golfer. This has been stated by several shaft manufacturers across various social media platforms 

 

5 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Agree but if a shaft doesn’t influence a change in the swing and the golfer swings the same with with two different shafts theres not going to any significant change in numbers.

This is also why most fitters start with the head first then shaft.

Maybe I am misreading but you originally said the shaft is fine tuning and the head controls launch.  But now you said the shaft could make significant changes in numbers.   Not trying to argue,  I think it is simply better to say that if you are getting really bad launch numbers with a shaft/head combo it might be easier to find a different head.  Of all the 3 woods in the fairway testing it only happened with 1 club head where we struggled this much to find a stock shaft that worked well.  Most were as you indicated fine tuning 

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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Personal testing experience and trackman numbers and on course use tell me that different weight characteristics of different shafts within the same flex category (even though there is no standard) can have a big influence in the swing weight of a club and the overall performance while used on the same clubhead.  The differences for me weren't in the 'fine tuning' range but in the 'broad performance' range. 

Modern Bag:  :ping-small: G410 LST 10.5*, Hzrdus Smoke RDX 6.5 Flex;   :titelist-small:  915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex;  Snake Eyes 18* 2h, 23* 4h & 27* 5h; :mizuno-small: JPX 900 Forged 6 - PW, PX LZ 6.0;  Edison 2.0 49*, 53*, 57* KBS Tour 120 S;   :ping-small:  Heppler Fetch;  Ball - :Snell: MTB-X; Bag - Jones MyGolfSpy Edition! 

Shot Scope H4, MG600 Rangefinder

Classic Bag:  Driver - :wilson_staff_small: Persimmon; 3w - :Hogan: Speed Slot; 5w - :wilson_staff_small: Tour Block; 3 - pw - :wilson_staff_small: Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson;  putter - bullseye standard or flange.

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4 hours ago, thefullmonte said:

So a quick Google Machine reference tells me that the 425 Max us just 2 grams heavier than the current head I have (208 vs 206)

I looked up the TSi2 for reference, it’s actually lighter at 196g

reflecting on the mini 425 fitting, I’m not sure I actually used a shaft over 65g.  Current is 72g.  I guess I’m not sure how much difference those 2 or 6 gram differences in head or shaft would be expected to make 

In my testing and experimenting, swapping between an Evenflow shaft and an Accra shaft of the same length changed the swingweight of the same G410+ head from D2 to D5.  Maybe for some that wouldn't be a big deal but for me it changed the performance of the club quite a bit.  I then experimented with different head weights to 'lighten' the swingweight and different positions to get a preferred ball flight and got a club that is very dependable for me.  If I hadn't got it to perform I was going back to my G10 / red Prolaunch and continuing the search.

Modern Bag:  :ping-small: G410 LST 10.5*, Hzrdus Smoke RDX 6.5 Flex;   :titelist-small:  915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex;  Snake Eyes 18* 2h, 23* 4h & 27* 5h; :mizuno-small: JPX 900 Forged 6 - PW, PX LZ 6.0;  Edison 2.0 49*, 53*, 57* KBS Tour 120 S;   :ping-small:  Heppler Fetch;  Ball - :Snell: MTB-X; Bag - Jones MyGolfSpy Edition! 

Shot Scope H4, MG600 Rangefinder

Classic Bag:  Driver - :wilson_staff_small: Persimmon; 3w - :Hogan: Speed Slot; 5w - :wilson_staff_small: Tour Block; 3 - pw - :wilson_staff_small: Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson;  putter - bullseye standard or flange.

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