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Play the "right" way—or ditch the driver?


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For me it depends on what tees I am hitting from. While I am fairly good with the driver now, I used to hit with less than driver when playing from the whites. As I got better hitting driver from more forward tees wasn't really fun. I cant imagine not using driver from further back tees unless it was for specific strategic purposes. I would say dont use driver until you can consistently hit the fairway with the other clubs then maybe try incorporating the driver. You'll probably have to use driver as you progress to the back tees unless youre Henrick Stenson but most of us here are not. 

Irons: Taylormade Combo set P770 (4-6) & P7MB (7-P) Nippon modus3 tour 120 (X, +.5"/-1 deg)

Driver: Titleist 917D3 Matrix ozik 6Q3 (X, C1)

3 wood: Taylormade SIM Max Ventus black 7 X

Hybrid: Callaway Mavrik 3 18deg KBS Tour Hybrid 85g X

Putter: Spider X chalk

Wedges: Vokey SM7 60 deg 4*, SM8 50 deg 8* and Cleveland RTX 56 deg 12*

Right handed

Milwaukee, Wisconsin

HCP: 6

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I rarely pull the big stick - my 7 - yes 7 wood - consistently goes 230 ish, usually out-driving playing partners hitting driver.  Play around 6,000 yards, so not usually an issue.  Sometimes wish I could smoke a driver on the par 5's, but then I'm not usually good enough to go for the green in 2 anyway!  So a nice layup to wedge distance is what the doctor orders.  Of course the driver is ALWAYS great on the range...just can't bottle it up and take it to the course!! 🤣

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Hit driver on 8 or 9 holes.  Try shorten driver shaft 1/2 inch.  Try counterweight driver shaft, company called Tourlock makes weights. This will drop you driver swingweight from say D-1 to C-8.  And yes like Ariyah Jutanugarn try a new driving iron for the more dangerous 3 or 4 holes. 

Driver: PXG 0211, A flex Evnflo Riptide (2021). And an old Callaway 454 TI (2004) on regular flex.

3 W: Callaway Steelhead Xr A flex Tensei CK 55 gram. The rest are Regular flex.

5 W : Titleist TSi 1 on Aldila Ascent regular flex.

Driving Iron: Mizuno MP 18 MMC 3 18 degree, on Mamiya Recoil reg flex.

4 iron:  Mizuno Fly-Hi, 24 degree hybrid iron, GFF, even tho it is a hollow body iron.

6,7,8,9,wedge: Ping I 500, on Recoil reg flex shafts.

Gap wedges: 52 x 9 Mizuno forged S5, wedge shaft; 60 x 6 Mizuno forged T7, wedge shaft.

Sand: Old original Hogan Sure Out on Apex original shaft, probably 56 / 12.

Chipper:  (yep I carry a chipper) old Don Martin "Up n In" bronze? copper? 🙂

Putter: Just switched Jan 2024 to a Odyssey Stroke lab "R" Ball with the 2 piece, multi material shaft.🙃

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Obviously there isn’t one answer that’s better than another, rather different perspectives on what your end goals are. Lower scores, hit a driver 300 down the middle, hit a driver straight… so many different aspects here but what works for me is this. I hit the ball further than most so I don’t get the big dog out that often, so I look at each hole and decide a few things before choosing a club. Yardage to different trees, bunkers, hazards, etc. then understand my bailout points and distances, meaning if I slice one to the right, what does my next shot give me to the green, what would my possible distance be from that tee shot, what if I hit it too far, what’s to the left and so forth.  Once I am comfortable with the distances and bailout points I choose my club, typically I’m going to hit a 4 iron because that gives me shot shaping control and about 250 in distance. I can typically play any par 4 with that club. Now when do I get my driver out, really if a course suits my eye and my shot. I play a bit of a power fade (DJ inspired) so if I’m playing well and scoring well it’s in my hand, if I’m struggling a bit or the ball tends to roll out more on the fairways I’m putting the big dog back in the bag. I want to give myself the best opportunity to score well and this is what I have found that works for me. 
 

Hope someone finds it helpful! 
-Steven

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Irons: Taylormade P790 4 iron thru Approach wedge w/ stock dynamic gold stiff shafts.   

Wedges: Taylormade 54 degree wedge and Taylormade high toe 60 degree wedge. 

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Driver: Ping LST Driver w/ Stiff shaft at 10.5 degrees  3 wood: Taylormade M6 Stock stiff shaft

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Were you fitted? If so, go back to the fitter. If not, go to Club Champion or a pro shop (not a big box store).

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Ping G425 Max Driver 10.5° w/Fujikura Ventus TR

Ping G425 Max 5-7-9 Fairway Woods w/Ping Alta CB

Ping G425 Irons 5-U w/Ping Alta CB (Power-Spec Lofts)

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Keep hitting the 3 wood off the tee for the time being. Practice with the driver on the range. Figure out what is different about yoiur 3 wood swing and your driver swing. Copy your 3 wood swing with your driver. Stop trying to hit up on the ball with your driver. Instead, swing level with the ground through the ball. That usually leads to way more consistency. I have read that testing shows most tour pros swing level through the ball, not up on it. Swinging up on the ball makes it difficult to keep a consistent left wrist position at impact. It collapses and opens the face one time. The next time it rolls over and you hit it left. Swinging level through the ball should stop or minimize that.

Callaway 816 Alpha DBD driver, 3 wood, 5 wood, Alpha 815 3 hybrid, RAZR X Forged cavity back irons 3-AW, 54-14 MD4 wedge, Maltby MS+ wide grind 60 degree lob wedge, 37 inch Rife Swithback Two putter. All clubs overlength - 47 inch driver, 45 inch 3wood, 44 inch 5 wood, 41 inch 3 hybrid, 39.5 inch 5 iron with other irons in line with that. All clubs graphite shafted and X-flex except flex of putter.

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I say go with your gut.  One summer in men’s league, I lowered my GHIN handicap by 3 strokes playing only irons.  Kept in play, got it on or close to green and chipped and putted. Bogie generally the worst score. With driver, its not un common for me to have 2-3 holes of +2 or worse, but may have 1 or 2 birdies. Maybe bag it until you work out kinks and can keep it in play.  Maybe one day I will take my own advice again!

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At 75,  when I have issues with any part of my game, I still go see my teaching pro.  Within a few minutes he normally can figure it out and after a small bucket of balls or less I am in the middle of the fairway.  We have four teaching pros at our course and I can get help from any of them when needed.  I play with a teaching pro and he is there when I need him.  My usual problems with my driver is about position over the ball and tempo.  My driver is a Titleist TSi3 set at 10.75* and has a Fujikura Speeder 661 TR S shaft and when hit solidly eats the middle of the fairways.    I use both during my rounds of play, my TSi3D and my TSi2F.  All depending on the length of the hole.   Alignment, position of the ball, tempo are the three things that my teacher looks at for me.  With respect and good luck.      

 

Driver - TSi3 10.75* - Fujikura Speeder 661 TR

Fairway - TSi2 14.25* - Fujikura Motore Speeder VC 6.1 

Fairway - TSR1 17.0* - Fujikura Vista Pro 65S

Hybrid - TSR1 20.0* - Fujikura Atmos Red Tour 75  

Hybrid - TSR1 23.0* - Fujikura Atmos Red Tour 75

Irons - T350 (2023) - 6-48W - True Temper AMT Red 95g-107g

Wedges - Vokey SM9 - 52.08F, 56.10S - True Temper AMT Red 94 

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Putter - 2023 Scotty Cameron Super Select Squareback 2 35" 

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So I have had the same battle off and on for awhile. I finally took some lessons and adjusted the settings on my driver to where I prioritized in the fairway over distance. I also moved to a set of tees where I have a 7i or below for most of my approach shots. I have also prioritized enjoying the game over my ego. Whichever way you go just remember it's your game, your swing, have fun.

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23 hours ago, cnosil said:

Strategy off the tee should always be hit the ball as far as you can but avoid "penalty" shots.     Based on your description it sounds like you spend more time in recovery mode when you play the driver and you are relatively successful with the 3w.   The answer is simple when playing use the 3w and work on your driver.   Seems the general guess is that you are hitting down on the ball.  Put a driver cover about a foot in front of a teed up ball and avoid hitting the cover when hitting the driver.   If you hit the cover you have a descending angle of attack/

I agree with this - hit the longest club you get in play 80 percent of the time plus and go from there. We all have handicaps for a reason. A number of years back we had a nice thread on the minimum distance a male golfer needed to hit the ball to be a scratch golfer. 
 

I believe we settled on 225 if everything else was very good. I know that I played at very close to scratch everything right around 240. 
 

If you are hitting them in play at 245, the tee ball will be the least of your problems. 

You might try a 2 wood (mini driver) or a higher lofted shorter shared driver - same thing. 

 

Of course in time there’s always ….. taking some lessons. That’s a possibility, too. 🙂

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

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@GolfSpy MPR question: do you KNOW you tend toward negative AOA with driver or just guessing? The only reason I ask is for years I suspected I hit down on the ball based on launch, flight, etc. When I had my fitting for the Epic Speed test, I found out I actually have a positive AOA that averaged 2-2.5 degrees.

Not that this will really have an impact on your conundrum, mostly just curiosity, but I understand your pain. Up until a couple years ago I never hit driver because I couldn't. Ultimately, I realized like @edingc that I sprayed the ball with a 3 more than I thought I did which finally convinced me to figure out a driver. It's been a slow process for me since I don't have much time for practice, but I'm finally at a point where I can feel/understand what contributes to bad results. Correcting them is a different issue, of course.

Driver:  :callaway-small:Epic Speed 9* (set -1) MMT 70X
3W:bridgestone-small: Tour B JGR Recoil 760ES
3H, 4H: :bridgestone-small: Tour B JGR 19*, 23* Recoil 780ES
4-AW:bridgestone-small: Tour B JGR HF2 Modus3 Tour 105
SW: :cleveland-small: RTX Zipcore Black Satin 54*
LW:Sub70: TAIII Black 58*
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Cut down the length of your driver.  Sounds like it is too long.  You will give up some yards, but you will have more control and be more consistent.  Would also consider what is making you be inconsistent.  Is it inside /out swing, over the top, etc.  are you over compensating, which leads to the hook. Have you thought about taking lessons just for the driver?

Driver: Cobra Aerojet 9* Ventus Red 5S shaft

3W: Cobra Aerojet Max 

Cobra LTDx 3H-5H

7-PW Callaway Rogue ST Max Elevate 85 steel shafts

Wedges:  Cleveland CBX zipcore steel 46*, 50*, 54*, 58*

Putter: Odyssey Tri-hot 5K Rossie

Ball:  Titleist ProV1 or AVX

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I carry a driver but weather I hit it depends on how I am feeling and the way I am swinging. On holes where I can get away with it, as there is a nice wide landing zone I will generally hit it, however if I am having a really good round and are up there to win the comp it will stay in the bag. 

One thing I did notice is that you have Sub Zero versions, when I was looking to change my driver and 3 wood I tried these and found them allot less consistent verses the standard Epic Flash.

One trick I was taught years ago was how to maximise your landing zone off the tee. Nowadays hit a fade so I was taught to tee up on the right edge of the tee box and aim at a point 10m from the left edge of the fairway. This provides a much bigger area for the ball to fade in to. You just have to remember to swing on the target line. Naturally if you hit a draw the opposite applies.

Edited by Firebird

Callaway Epic Flash 9 Degree

Callaway Epic Flash 3 wood 15 Degree

Callaway Apex 21 Hybrid 19 Degree

Callaway Steelhead Pro 4-AW Irons

Cleveland 54 Degree Wedge Steel Shaft

Recoil Graphite Shafts in all Callaway

Cobra Vintage Series Stingray 40

Preferred ball - Seed 001

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17 minutes ago, Firebird said:

One thing I did notice is that you have Sub Zero versions, when I was looking to change my driver and 3 wood I tried these and found them allot less consistent verses the standard Epic Flash.

I noticed that too. Testing a max ls and with my crappy swing it’s easier to keep in play compared to the EF SZ. 

Follow my journey to enjoying golf and going low

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38 minutes ago, Firebird said:

One thing I did notice is that you have Sub Zero versions, when I was looking to change my driver and 3 wood I tried these and found them allot less consistent verses the standard Epic Flash.

 

20 minutes ago, rbsiedsc said:

I noticed that too. Testing a max ls and with my crappy swing it’s easier to keep in play compared to the EF SZ. 

On having the Epic Flash SZ: when I went for a driver fitting, my spin rate was so high that the fitter was throwing everything at it that he could to get that down. Unfortunately, the fitting (at a Callaway fitting day) was not done with a high-end LM, so it wasn't measuring AoA, but the spin rates I was seeing (upper 3,000s) were consistent with a negative AoA.

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Driver is a weakness for me, as well.  I know that I'm losing shots with it over the courses of the game, and it's an area that I'm working on improving.  At 70 years of age, I know that I've lost significant distance off the tee and, although I've moved up a set of tees, I still find myself often having a FW or longer iron into the green.  For that reason, I believe that it's best for me to continue with my driver and continue to work toward minimizing the push fade that I tend to hit too often (I know why, but fixing it is a work in progress).  I'm also working to improve my impact on the sweet spot, knowing that this will improve my distances -- again, a work in progress.

Good luck in your quest to resolve your issues off the tee box.

Driver: :callaway-small: Rogue ST Max (10.5* set at -1 and neutral) -- Mitsubishi Tensai Blue 55g R shaft

Fairway: :callaway-small: Rogue ST Max 3 wood (16.5*) and Heaven Wood (20*)-- Tensai Blue 55g R shaft

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I have a lot of the same struggles with the driver. Dispersion is inconsistent and I’m a high spin player. I dropped my driver for a strong 3 wood seeing as how the carry distance was nearly the same but I am in the fairway 80% of the time now. I gave the taylormade 300 mini driver a shot as well but saw better results with the tsi3 strong 3 wood. 

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I took my driver out of the bag earlier this year and I now carry two 3 Woods.  Identical head and shaft, but one is set to 16* and the other 13* with an inch added to length.  Also I can hit both of them iff the deck too.

I'm not a long hitter, but often out drive my driver weilding companions, and hit a few more fairways than before too.

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I don't understand how someone can hit a 3 wood quite well and be bad with a driver. My 3 wood is a club that I basically just take for a walk every couple of weeks as I hate hitting it.

Ultimately, playing golf is about getting the ball in the hole in as few strokes as possible, so I'd say do whatever you need to do to achieve that. If that means benching the driver from play, maybe that's the right thing to do, but I'd always suggest working on how to hit it consistently, but do that away from the course. Driver is a weapon that shouldn't be ditched permanently, but if it hurts more than helps, it's not right, right now.

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9 hours ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

 

On having the Epic Flash SZ: when I went for a driver fitting, my spin rate was so high that the fitter was throwing everything at it that he could to get that down. Unfortunately, the fitting (at a Callaway fitting day) was not done with a high-end LM, so it wasn't measuring AoA, but the spin rates I was seeing (upper 3,000s) were consistent with a negative AoA.

Did you check where you impact the face? I got high spin with very positive AoA (average was 4) because I would  strike low on face. After watching Monte’s Drive 4 Dough, saw his clip of lowering tee height influenced a more level and centered strike. Swing now around +1 degrees with much more centered strike 

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9 hours ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

but the spin rates I was seeing (upper 3,000s) were consistent with a negative AoA.

If you are hitting with a positive angle bit make contact on the bottom of the driver face spin will be high. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

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I'm an old hacker, but when the driver heads south, I'll choke up on the grip an inch or two to improve contact, control, and consistancy.  The larger driver  head  vs. the 3W gives greater confidence standing on the tee.  I've also adjusted my loft to 11.5 degrees to keep the ball in the air longer.  My best drive has been 245 yards vs about 200 for the 3W.

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Golf is supposed to be fun. Play whatever club you want off of the tee that gives you the best chance to score your lowest score. I'm an 8.9 index and I either use my 3 wood or 2 hybrid off of the tee depending on the hole. Remember, "fairways and greens". 

Steve Uhlenbrock
"The Happy Prof"

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On 8/17/2021 at 5:52 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

The right way is to get the ball in the hole with the least amount of strokes. 
 

Ariya Jutangarn rarely even carries driver. 
 

Play golf the way that gives you enjoyment and let’s you score your best

It's all about fairways and greens - hit what works for you - even the pros know when to step away from the driver to assure "fairways and greens"!

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11 minutes ago, Scotland4ever said:

It's all about fairways and greens - hit what works for you - even the pros know when to step away from the driver to assure "fairways and greens"!

It really isn’t about fairways.  Fairways are desirable but chasing fairways at all costs isn’t a good approach.  Data analytics has changed the way golf is played.  

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The experiment continued this morning. I did swap a shorter shaft into my driver, but I decided that today would be 3w on any hole I would normally have hit driver off the tee. The results:

  • Hole 1: 235 down the right side of the fairway
  • Hole 4: 218 in the fairway
  • Hole 5: sweeping draw, 243 in the middle
  • Hole 6: 219, high fade
  • Hole 8: 246, right rough, no problem
  • Hole 9: 187, lost it right, hit a tree and came back in the fairway

All told, Arccos gave me a -1.2 SG:Driving for the round, compared to my 10 round average of -5. I think that might be my best SG:Driving on the front nine of my course.

I am planning to go in for a driver fitting next month on a scheduled trip to the Twin Cities. I think I might keep playing 3w off the tee until then.

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:755178188_TourEdge: CBX T3 15°, Project X HZRDUS Black
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4 minutes ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

The experiment continued this morning. I did swap a shorter shaft into my driver, but I decided that today would be 3w on any hole I would normally have hit driver off the tee. The results:

  • Hole 1: 235 down the right side of the fairway
  • Hole 4: 218 in the fairway
  • Hole 5: sweeping draw, 243 in the middle
  • Hole 6: 219, high fade
  • Hole 8: 246, right rough, no problem
  • Hole 9: 187, lost it right, hit a tree and came back in the fairway

All told, Arccos gave me a 1.2 SG:Driving for the round, compared to my 10 round average of -5. I think that might be my best SG:Driving on the front nine of my course.

I am planning to go in for a driver fitting next month on a scheduled trip to the Twin Cities. I think I might keep playing 3w off the tee until then.

Saw your Twitter post that you lost more strokes on your short game.  Did you have more or longer short game shots than normal or was it just a bad day with the wedges?   Seems like you didn’t put yourself if bad position off the tee so 3wd seems like a good option there. 

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Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
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Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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