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What are you doing with the '21 Ball test data?


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1 hour ago, Tsecor said:

I always have a high angle of descent so im not worried about stopping power unless im inside 30 yards and around the greenside.....thats where i need spin the most.  I have hit the BX before and i didnt like it for some reason. 

Off the driver (mid speed), the BXS is noticeably longer than the other two balls but when you get to the 8 iron (mid speed) the XS gives those yards right back. ...then nyou get to the wedge and the XS has ~ 500 more rpms which equates to ~ 40 revolutions during a 5 second wedge flight....its literally splitting hairs....so, from a playability standpoint, does one of these "grab" a little more on bump and runs or is one of these better feeling around the green (not too soft or hard), so it feel like whatever you put into it, you will get that out of it?

The left dash was bad for me around the green because I would hit it and think im gonna run it 15-20 feet and it would go 25 feet or i would feel like id have to hit it softer and it would not runout enough.....

I've never heard anyone discuss calculations on numbers of revolutions given the length of ball flight. Do you have any info that led you down this path of analysis? If you need more spin, play a higher spin ball. If 500 rpm isn't enough, then play the Kirkland I guess 🤷‍♂️

The XS grabs the most because it's the highest spin. The RX is the lowest spin urethane ball made by Bridgestone which should be lower than the left dash which will make it likely to run out more especially because soft balls seem to have higher ball speeds on slower shots. 

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9 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

if you are going towards the firmer balls, AVX is not for you.  Thats as soft as it gets and feels completely different than the other balls you listed. Its a good ball, but way different

Thanks, I included the AVX based on some of the distance metrics it produced, but good point that it isn't in the same class as the more firm balls I listed.  Maybe a good "gives you a bit of both" ball.   

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4 minutes ago, BMart519 said:

I've never heard anyone discuss calculations on numbers of revolutions given the length of ball flight. Do you have any info that led you down this path of analysis? If you need more spin, play a higher spin ball. If 500 rpm isn't enough, then play the Kirkland I guess 🤷‍♂️

The XS grabs the most because it's the highest spin. The RX is the lowest spin urethane ball made by Bridgestone which should be lower than the left dash which will make it likely to run out more especially because soft balls seem to have higher ball speeds on slower shots. 

most of the "X" balls have more spin around the greens because the cover comes into play more because the core is not being compressed.  a lot of "soft" balls are lower spin so they fly further...

there is tons of data out there how long a ball is in flight, which on wedge shots and iron shots is in the neighborhood of 5 seconds.....its simple math....a ball that spins 7500 rpm in a full minute, would in theory rotates 125x a second. Over that 5 seconds you would get 625 rotations......but when you factor is spin degredation over the course of tthe flight, you come out with ~ 500 actual rotations......so many people think the ball is spinning faster than it actually is when it hits the green when in fact the spin rates between balls is fractional at best in the actual golf shot....if you have a deep angle of descent, you probably have good control on approach shots......its the shorter shots that do not use height as a control that spin may be the bigger factor....so in theory, most balls are within 15 feet of each other off the tee.....5-10 feet of each other off the irons......no real differences.....but the shots around the green, out of greenside rough and putting is where the differences can really come into play

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11 minutes ago, Tiftaaft said:

Thanks, I included the AVX based on some of the distance metrics it produced, but good point that it isn't in the same class as the more firm balls I listed.  Maybe a good "gives you a bit of both" ball.   

it performs well is most areas and is long but soft....greenside is ok to me, but the prov1 acts better around the greens IMO. But it does perform like the firmer balls do on distance shots

 

 

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19 hours ago, TBS said:

The ball test in '19 is what drew me to MGS and I've loved going through the '21 data and discussing it on the Ball test thread. I wanted to start a new thread for everyone to share what they are going to do with the data they received. 

So, what is your next move after reviewing the '21 ball test data??

For me, I'm going to try out some of the Vice Pro and Pro Plus. I fall right in between Mid and high swing and although my current gamer Snell MTBX faired well, it was not a standout like last year. Although I think ProV1x left dash would be a good fit, I'm not willing to pay the price at this point, so I like to look at the more premium budget (DTC) options. I've posted this elsewhere but this ball test showed that you really need to find the ball that is best for you, your equipment, and your game. I think Big Box stores should start offering ball fittings for a small price that can be applied when you buy 2 or more boxes of balls. 

I think that, just like in '19, it shows that if you are playing one of the more, "name brand" balls, youre probably paying too much and you could get the same performance with a DTC ball.

I personally love Japanese golf equipment but I honestly cant convince myself that Im getting anything other than a lighter wallet if I choose to play Srixons or Bridgestones over Maxfli/Snell/Vice/Cut, etc.

"I suppose its better to be a master of 7 than to be vaguely familiar with 14." - Chick Evans

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Woods: Tommy Armour Atomic 10.5* 

Hybrid: Mizuno MP Fli-Hi 3H

Irons: Mizuno T-Zoid True 5, 7 and 9-irons

Wedge: Mizuno S18 54* and Top Flite chipper

Putter: Mizuno Bettinardi A-02

Ball: Maxfli Tour X

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20 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

most of the "X" balls have more spin around the greens because the cover comes into play more because the core is not being compressed.  a lot of "soft" balls are lower spin so they fly further...

there is tons of data out there how long a ball is in flight, which on wedge shots and iron shots is in the neighborhood of 5 seconds.....its simple math....a ball that spins 7500 rpm in a full minute, would in theory rotates 125x a second. Over that 5 seconds you would get 625 rotations......but when you factor is spin degredation over the course of tthe flight, you come out with ~ 500 actual rotations......so many people think the ball is spinning faster than it actually is when it hits the green when in fact the spin rates between balls is fractional at best in the actual golf shot....if you have a deep angle of descent, you probably have good control on approach shots......its the shorter shots that do not use height as a control that spin may be the bigger factor....so in theory, most balls are within 15 feet of each other off the tee.....5-10 feet of each other off the irons......no real differences.....but the shots around the green, out of greenside rough and putting is where the differences can really come into play

RPM is a unit of measure, nothing is measured in total rotations during ball flight so it's not correlated to anything else measured. I'm just wondering why you do that calculation and if there is some table or other research you are comparing those numbers to... In your example above, the ball had 500 rotations in flight which is meaningless to the interaction with the green because it happened in the past. You are looking for the spin rate at the time of impact to compare landing conditions, you just changed the units from RPM to rotations per second. 

The test measurements are in RPM and scale pretty well based on Tony's comments in the articles about "higher spin with driver, higher with wedge". Use the Wedge RPM values to pick balls that spin more to have less roll out greenside. This is why I personally use the B XS because its the highest spinning Bridgestone ball and seems to have the least roll out(but driver spin can equal the BX at certain speeds). The XS is lower compression (than BX) and higher spin unlike the V1X, CSX, Maxfli X, which makes it a bit unique. If the B XS has 500 total rotations greenside then the RX and RXS have ~450, which is 10% less and will roll out farther because that is less stopping power on a shot with the same landing angle. Said another way if the BXS is 125x/second the RX is 112, (or 7500 rpm vs 6900 rpm) which is still 10% less, so more roll out. 

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24 minutes ago, BMart519 said:

RPM is a unit of measure, nothing is measured in total rotations during ball flight so it's not correlated to anything else measured. I'm just wondering why you do that calculation and if there is some table or other research you are comparing those numbers to... In your example above, the ball had 500 rotations in flight which is meaningless to the interaction with the green because it happened in the past. You are looking for the spin rate at the time of impact to compare landing conditions, you just changed the units from RPM to rotations per second. 

The test measurements are in RPM and scale pretty well based on Tony's comments in the articles about "higher spin with driver, higher with wedge". Use the Wedge RPM values to pick balls that spin more to have less roll out greenside. This is why I personally use the B XS because its the highest spinning Bridgestone ball and seems to have the least roll out(but driver spin can equal the BX at certain speeds). The XS is lower compression (than BX) and higher spin unlike the V1X, CSX, Maxfli X, which makes it a bit unique. If the B XS has 500 total rotations greenside then the RX and RXS have ~450, which is 10% less and will roll out farther because that is less stopping power on a shot with the same landing angle. Said another way if the BXS is 125x/second the RX is 112, (or 7500 rpm vs 6900 rpm) which is still 10% less, so more roll out. 

Its just used as a way of over simplifying how little spin may mean when the ball actually hits the green....nothing more. We all know the spin # is measured directly after the ball leaves the face......this is the MAX #.....but what happens after? how much speed is lost during that 5 - 6 second flight and how fast is the ball spinning when it hits the green? IDK...thats what im really interested in....not really a max spin rate 1 millisecond off the club face....

In the MGS test, the XS and the V1X are identicle in spin on all the clubs and speeds.

Here is a great article on spin degredation that concludes 

"A ball in flight loses  3.3 to 4 percent of its spin for each second it is in the air. In the six seconds of hang time typical on the PGA Tour, the initial spin is reduced to between 78 and 82 percent of its initial spin.

Spin decay

Jamie McConnell JM Golf Academy, Ireland said it best 

“Controlling the spin rate of the golf ball is an important factor particularly in the short game. Being able to produce more spin on a 50 yard wedge shot when it is needed can be the difference between winning and losing a tournament. In the same sense, the ability to produce chip shots with less spin can be the difference between playing to or playing under a golfer’s handicap.”

so, as i search for that unicorn ball that is low spin off the driver and irons, but spins a lot more around the greens in relation, i am not sure the technology exists. It seems the Chromesoft X may be the closest to what im lookng for. 

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51 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

Its just used as a way of over simplifying how little spin may mean when the ball actually hits the green....nothing more. We all know the spin # is measured directly after the ball leaves the face......this is the MAX #.....but what happens after? how much speed is lost during that 5 - 6 second flight and how fast is the ball spinning when it hits the green? IDK...thats what im really interested in....not really a max spin rate 1 millisecond off the club face....

In the MGS test, the XS and the V1X are identicle in spin on all the clubs and speeds.

Here is a great article on spin degredation that concludes 

"A ball in flight loses  3.3 to 4 percent of its spin for each second it is in the air. In the six seconds of hang time typical on the PGA Tour, the initial spin is reduced to between 78 and 82 percent of its initial spin.

Spin decay

Jamie McConnell JM Golf Academy, Ireland said it best 

“Controlling the spin rate of the golf ball is an important factor particularly in the short game. Being able to produce more spin on a 50 yard wedge shot when it is needed can be the difference between winning and losing a tournament. In the same sense, the ability to produce chip shots with less spin can be the difference between playing to or playing under a golfer’s handicap.”

so, as i search for that unicorn ball that is low spin off the driver and irons, but spins a lot more around the greens in relation, i am not sure the technology exists. It seems the Chromesoft X may be the closest to what im lookng for. 

You are going to have to drop the duece or get off the pot at some point. Your current approach is going to have gob constantly questioning if you are missing something in any aspect of the game whether it’s more distance or better tee dispassion, control with irons, ability to hit different shots into the green. Just like with your irons you have reached a point of over analyzing the ball and it’s only going to hurt your game rather than help you get better.

Either you don’t want to make a decision because you are worried about. Ring stuck with something and will be wondering if it’s the right decision or you are trying to avoid deciding so you can have some escape for your game being off and being able to say the ball I’m using doesn’t work for X

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Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

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Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

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Ball: Titleist Prov1

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I am disappointed in the test because I believe dispersion / shot area is very important and it was not included in the test results.

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5 hours ago, BMart519 said:

The B RXS and RX will have less greenside spin the the Left Dash as well as stopping power on approaches. The XS is the ball most similar to the V1 and CS (I've played all 4 Bridgestone balls). The B X would then be your next option, but it is definitely firmer and low spin. 

I am trying out the B X now then try the XS 

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great post!... Maybe you guys can help me a little.

I know the ball is one of the most important pieces of equipment, so any help works.  i hit the ball low, with little spin. I went to a fitting center and my 6 iron was only spinning 3300-4500. i know this is way low and its hard for me to hold greens. i play srixon z585 irons with NIPPON MODUS 3 105 SHAFTs. my swing speed is up to par and my carry is 180ish, but i need spin to get the height i need. any ball advice? i was thinking taylor made tp5 because of spin, but tp5x is supposed to have more height. Thanks for any help.

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8 minutes ago, Flebix said:

great post!... Maybe you guys can help me a little.

I know the ball is one of the most important pieces of equipment, so any help works.  i hit the ball low, with little spin. I went to a fitting center and my 6 iron was only spinning 3300-4500. i know this is way low and its hard for me to hold greens. i play srixon z585 irons with NIPPON MODUS 3 105 SHAFTs. my swing speed is up to par and my carry is 180ish, but i need spin to get the height i need. any ball advice? i was thinking taylor made tp5 because of spin, but tp5x is supposed to have more height. Thanks for any help.

Max spin would be Kirkland.   But, i don't think any ball is going to get you in a good range spin wise.  Your distance is probably the result of the low spin that you are seeing.    I'd work on swing to get more spin loft.     https://blog.trackmangolf.com/spin-loft/

 

 

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
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I sorted through the DtC balls. I’ve been playing Oncore Elixr. They advertise the Vero X1 for high swing speeds but it seems like a ball I can hit with the indicated compression. I just got a dozen to try on course. 

Sub 70 irons and wedges. Epic Flash sub zero driver and 3 metal. Callaway rescue 18 and 22 degree. 

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when i run outta golf balls( Srixon Zstar, Snell Black), i will be switching to titliest pro v1.  better fit. better consistency.

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I have been poring over the info which has been very time consuming. I have narrowed down my selections of golf balls down to 3 possibles of which I currently have been playing for the last couple of years. As I am approaching 80, obviously my swing speed has decreased significantly. I am currently playing the Bridgestone BRXS and the Srixon Q Star Tour. I like both balls and I don't think many more options are going to significantly increase my distance. The outlier ball that I am going to try is the MG C4. The results seemed relatively comparable both the Srixon and Bridgestone and in some cases they were actually longer. I will a couple dozen and just see what types of results I can get.

WITB:

Driver - Callaway BB Alpha 9* Kuro Kage 50g. Reg. Shaft - 45"

3 Wood - Callaway X-Hot 3 Deep Pro 14.5* Project X 5.5

5 Wood - Callaway XR 19* Project X 5.5

3 - 5 Tour Edge Exotics EX9 Hybrids 18*, 22*, & 25* w/ AeroTech i80 SteelFiber Reg. Shaft

6 - PW - Callaway Apex w/ AeroTech i80 SteelFiber Reg. Shaft - Standard length & lofts 

GW, SW & LW - Hogan TK - 49*, 54* & 58* - KBS fst - Wedge flex

Putter - Ping - Mid Ketsch Heavy - 33"

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I have tried several of the balls from the test in 2019.  I am a senior with a ball speed of 80-85 and hit the Callaway Epic driver.   When I read the test and saw 

that a tour ball was getting great distance with a slow swing speed then I thought I would give it a try.  I tried the Bridgeston Tour Bx balls and found them to 

give me the best overall distance.  My score has dropped almost 6 strokes due to distance gain, less dispersion on iron shots and the ball seems to stop alot faster 

on the green. The Bridgestone ball is also very durable. 

 I also tried several of the Callaway balls, Taylormade,  Vice, and others to include Titlelist.  I really like the Titlelist Tour S, but they discontinued the ball and the new model

does not feel as good.    

 

Thanks MGS for doing the testing as it really helped my game. 

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I bought 6 boxes of MTBX's about a week before the results came out, my gamer. 

I was hoping to see the results first but 1. I was running low and 2. I couldn't get my hands on Snell's for a long time (In Canada) so I jumped on the order when I could. 

After seeing the results. Glad I did, nothing tells me otherwise. I am right inbetween the High and mid swing speed on the test and need a low spin ball. 

Maybe, maybe might try Srixon Zstar XV because they go on sale for a really nice price up here, but I doubt it. I really enjoy the Snell's and ppl's reaction when they have no clue what it is. I have converted a few ppl and find it fun. 

Price is a major factor for me, so Pro V's are out. 

Edited by Chadvb

What's in the bag:
 
Driver:  Cobra Speedzone 9.0 at 7.5 - Accra Tour Z M4 (45.75 inch)

Second Driver:  Titleist 913 D3 7.5 - Oban Devotion (41.5 inch)

Driving iron - Taylormade GAP2 2 lo - Accra M4 hybrid shaft (39 inch)

Long irons - (4, 5) Mp18 MMC Fli Hi - Modus 105x - 7 iron length

Irons - (PW - 6) JPX 900 tour - Modus 105x 

Wedges (50,54) - Vokey SM5

Wedge (61) Taylormade milled grind             

Putter: Scotty Cameron Select Newport 2, Scotty Cameron Newport, Wilson Infinite Michigan Ave

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Still buying Srixon Q-Star Tour. Nice reference on balls, but everyone has their favorites.

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Ping G410 5 Fairway Wood Mitsubishi Tensi Orange R Flex

Ping G410 4-5-6 Hybrids Mitsubishi Tensi Blue R Flex

Ping i500 Irons 5-U w/Recoil SmacWrap F3 Flex (power-spec lofts)

Ping 3.0 Eye2 Glide Wedges 54°-58° w/Recoil SmacWrap F3 Flex

2019 Bettinardi QB6 and 2021 Ping Fetch Putter (depends on the greens)

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Great idea for thread - thanks for starting!

I tend to hit the ball a little low and while I am always looking for driver yards, I want to try to find a sweet spot of higher launch/ more driver carry/ lower compression (I know Tony would not like me for saying that last bit). As an example, I really enjoy the feel of the prior gen TP5 (USA Pix), the prior gen AVX, and the OnCore Elixir. I have also enjoyed testing the Snell MTB-X and Black and the 2019 Maxfli Tour. I have kicked out the ProV1x, left dash, all Bridgestone models, Kirkland Signature (even though I love Costco!), and TP5x.

As a mid-swing speed player, I will investigate this year's results as follows: the new TP5, the Snell MTB Black, ProV1, AVX, Maxfli Tour, and Vice Pro since those are suggestions from the MGS team for balls in the 80's compression range. The Maxfli and Vice Pro had relatively higher launching numbers and had some of the best carry distances for the compression range I prefer.

And I agree - this is my favorite report that the team does. I know they don't like to do it, so perhaps they should run a contest and if forum members would be willing to pay their way out to the testing site, perhaps MSG foots the hotel and food bill for a bunch of members to help out over the week. Perhaps 5-10 winners could be used to help relieve them. Just a thought to help out. I can imagine that even after one day, I would be glad to be finished, but at the same time, I gladly put up my hand to volunteer!

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