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Miura CB-301 vs 2019 Titleist T200


DJ Mico
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I did a fitting in March 2021 and got fit into Titleist T200 irons. I had previously been playing Titleist DCI 762 irons, so these were a massive upgrade. I received the irons in April and have played about 20 rounds since with them. The T200s are fantastic and work so well for me. My only complaint was that the 8-PW are different from the rest of the set. Starting at the 7 iron and into the long irons, the T200 has the Max Impact technology. The 8-PW have no Max Impact and I believe are simply hollow-bodied irons comparable to a Ping i500--please someone correct me if I am wrong. The feeling from the short irons is very dull, and every shot felt the same whether struck thin, solid, off the toe, or on the heel. After many rounds and range sessions, I was seeking an improved feel in these short irons.

I did a lot of research about the best feeling clubs. Miura irons are known as the best in class for feel. So, long story short, I pulled the trigger on the Miura CB-301 in 7-PW. I ordered the Miuras strong to match lofts with the T200 and ensure my gapping remained the same. I just received the Miuras and played 2 rounds with them, so I felt I had compiled enough data for a comparison of the two.

In terms of looks and size, the two are very similar in sole width and blade length from heel to toe. The main differences are the T200 is slightly shorter from heel to toe, is maybe a bit smaller with a shorter face, and the T200 are significantly lighter than the Miura. The Miura has a pre-worn leading edge and other grinding on the sole, but otherwise is just a forged cavity back with fairly strong lofts and no discernable technology.

 IMG_4207.jpg.97d46bb73a0691c88f92707efcfc08c0.jpgIMG_4212.jpg.71944371a8f1756012e598a134d41a13.jpg

After all the comparisons in looks and weight, I finally decided it was time to give the fine pieces of metal a swing. The "hype" around Miura and their "legendary" feel is certainly warranted. These have that exact "soft" and "buttery" feeling you expect when you are getting a forged iron. Even the 2-piece range balls felt great. As a former baseball player, the best I can describe the feeling of hitting the Miura is like a hitting a high quality wood bad. You definitely get the feedback of mishits, but good shots feel like you are swinging the club and not even realizing you hit the ball aside from a gentle "thud" sound and little smooth vibration through the club as the ball melts into the sweetspot then rockets off at your target. 

I get it is not entirely apples-to-apples to compare a fully forged Miura to a technology-packed players' distance iron like the T200, so I also hit the Miura PW against my Mizuno T20 wedges. As Mizuno's saying goes "nothing feels like a Mizuno," so I also put that to the test. The T20 are fantastic feeling wedges and were the best feeling wedges I had tested during my fitting for the variety of wedge shots. However, compared to the Miura, the T20 felt a bit firmer. Where the ball felt like it melted into the Miura, the ball felt like it did not quite get into the face as much. I would put the feelings on a spectrum. The T200 are softer than the DCI 762, the T20 wedges are softer than the T200 irons, and the Miura are softer than the T20 wedges. 

Aside from being in love with the feeling, I also wanted to really see the performance differences between the Miuras and the T200s. My range recently installed TopTracer which measures distance, land angle, curve, ball speed, height, launch angle, and hang time. I am not sure how accurate it is compared to a launch monitor, but I am sure it provided a fair enough representation of the differences in the clubs.

Side by side comparisons
 
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My observations of the data are that the Miura is equally as long or longer than the T200 in the 8-PW, but the Miura also went higher with a steeper landing angle. In terms of the 7 irons where the technology ramps up in the T200, the Miura was not significantly shorter in distance. In fact, I seem to think consistently hitting the Miuras around a comparable number is better than occasionally hitting a T200 over 165, but then also having the potential of only hitting it 150. I don't have a launch monitor to truly verify my findings, but despite a lack of technology within, I found the Miura to be comparable in distance and ball speed while feeling significantly better.
 
Overall, I do think it comes down to preferences while also maximizing performance, which shows the benefits of fitting. I prefer a softer and more responsive feel in my short irons, and I found the best feeling clubs that also maintained the distances I got from my T200s. I am a very happy customer, and I will be hard pressed to find clubs that feel as good as my Miuras.
Edited by DJ Mico
Pictures not loaded properly on initial post
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Driver: :callaway-small: Mavrik Sub Zero 9º (Fujikura Pro 2.0 Tour Spec 6X)

3 Wood:callaway-small: Mavrik 15° (Aldila Rogue White 70S)

Hybrid: :callaway-small:Mavrik Pro 3 Hybrid 20° (KBS Proto 80 S)

4i-7i:titelist-small: T200 (AMT Black S300)

8i-PW:Miura: CB-301 (Nippon Modus3 105 S)

Wedges

:mizuno-small: T20 48/5 Satin (GW); T20 54/14 Blue Ion (SW) (Tour Issue S400)

:ping-small: Glide 3.0 Eye2 60/8 (LW) (Nippon Ping Z-Z115)

Putter:odyssey-small: Toulon Design Stroke Lab Las Vegas with H7 neck

Ball: :titelist-small: ProV1

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On 9/8/2021 at 6:20 PM, DJ Mico said:

Overall, I do think it comes down to preferences while also maximizing performance, which shows the benefits of fitting. I prefer a softer and more responsive feel in my short irons, and I found the best feeling clubs that also maintained the distances I got from my T200s. I am a very happy customer, and I will be hard pressed to find clubs that feel as good as my Miuras.

Miuras are good irons but their history of "great feel" is interesting. Miura was known in the past for having the "densest" feel, meaning firm and clicky. I think people called it dense to help them mentally justify dropping over $3 large on a set of irons. Miura makes different irons out of different metals, so feel is going to be different from model to model.

I think what you found with your T200/Miura experiment is that loft is still the primary determining factor of distance. Technology in clubs really has minimal impact in short irons. The mass and dimensional properties of the head are always going to trump whatever goo or technology manufacturers claim to put in the clubhead. The Miuras launching higher is likely caused by a a different COG and potentially different groove cut. I'm assuming you used the same shafts? Did you give up some forgiveness with the Miuras? Maybe, but the higher the loft, the less it matters. This is why I really liked the older Ping i-series irons like the i15s. The i15s were an extremely progressive set with much smaller clubheads on the short irons and rather chunky GI heads on the long irons. I liked those sets because you could have a really progressive set without having to try and make combo sets. 

Overall, it sounds like you make an improvement to your irons. I personally don't like chunky short irons even though in theory it shouldn't really matter. I still think there is something to how our minds perceive "feeling" relative to the to certain mass and dimensional properties of the clubhead. This cannot be explained with physics, so I don't expect conclusive research to ever be done on the topic. The only conclusive thing that can be said is that manufacturers still make forged/smaller clubs, so there is obviously enough people who prefer smaller clubs and that means something. 

One question? Why not blend your T200s with T100s? 

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8 minutes ago, Kansas King said:

Miuras are good irons but their history of "great feel" is interesting. Miura was known in the past for having the "densest" feel, meaning firm and clicky. I think people called it dense to help them mentally justify dropping over $3 large on a set of irons. Miura makes different irons out of different metals, so feel is going to be different from model to model.

The feel of the Miuras is defitinitely an interesting topic. 

They don’t have the buttery feel/sound every uses to describe some brands like Mizuno. They are a denser feel/sound but not clicky. Those who like the sound/feel of the mizunos, older titleist MBs tend not to like the feel/sound of the Miuras. Also those who have so so ball striking don’t like the Miuras because of the sound/feel on mishits.

I have played CB57 and wish I never sold them, have the CB301 and have hit the 1957 baby blades on several occasions. I prefer the sound/feel of the Miuras over mizunos and titleist and I’ve hit/games numerous irons from both these brands.

Nobody I know who games Miura uses needs to use the words dense or anything else to justify the money they spent on them. The quality of the iron is why they play them and like me they prefer that feel and sound

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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Just now, RickyBobby_PR said:

The feel of the Miuras is defitinitely an interesting topic. 

They don’t have the buttery feel/sound every uses to describe some brands like Mizuno. They are a denser feel/sound but not clicky. Those who like the sound/feel of the mizunos, older titleist MBs tend not to like the feel/sound of the Miuras. Also those who have so so ball striking don’t like the Miuras because of the sound/feel on mishits.

I have played CB57 and wish I never sold them, have the CB301 and have hit the 1957 baby blades on several occasions. I prefer the sound/feel of the Miuras over mizunos and titleist and I’ve hit/games numerous irons from both these brands.

Nobody I know who games Miura uses needs to use the words dense or anything else to justify the money they spent on them. The quality of the iron is why they play them and like me they prefer that feel and sound

I think Miuras are great irons but I've hit the CB501s and to me, I thought they felt very clicky and I wasn't striking them poorly. Sure, those are an older design but probably one of their more historically successful designs, at least in the U.S. as those are the ones I see the most of. I wouldn't tell someone not to get Miuras but I don't think outperform anything else on the market that's decent. The only thing Miura probably would be best at is tighter tolerances but honestly, assuming you're using a competent club builder, reasonable tolerance variations aren't going to really impact the final product in a meaningful way.

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5 minutes ago, Kansas King said:

I think Miuras are great irons but I've hit the CB501s and to me, I thought they felt very clicky and I wasn't striking them poorly. Sure, those are an older design but probably one of their more historically successful designs, at least in the U.S. as those are the ones I see the most of. I wouldn't tell someone not to get Miuras but I don't think outperform anything else on the market that's decent. The only thing Miura probably would be best at is tighter tolerances but honestly, assuming you're using a competent club builder, reasonable tolerance variations aren't going to really impact the final product in a meaningful way.

Most people who aren’t familiar with miura and other similar forgings have that thought about the sound because it’s unfamiliar to them and many have the perception that be ahead they are forged. 
 

I personally would never discourage anyone from getting any club regardless of price. I would tell them to at least test them before blind buying.

Only incompetent club builders for miura are those who don’t sell them in their shops. I’ve seen this first hand with my buddy who has the baby blades.

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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1 minute ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Most people who aren’t familiar with miura and other similar forgings have that thought about the sound because it’s unfamiliar to them and many have the perception that be ahead they are forged. 
 

I personally would never discourage anyone from getting any club regardless of price. I would tell them to at least test them before blind buying.

Only incompetent club builders for miura are those who don’t sell them in their shops. I’ve seen this first hand with my buddy who has the baby blades.

I would also not discourage anyone from a club due to price unless it's a financially poor decision for them. I also don't know why anyone would play a set of baby blades other than to experience the novelty of it. I could see Miuras becoming more popular with all the other club manufactures starting to encroach on Miura pricing, that is assuming Miura doesn't jack up their own prices. I'm sure Miura will have a strong future. If Golfworks can design modern Maltby irons that are competitive with the big boys, I don't see any reason why Miura couldn't also. 

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On 9/13/2021 at 8:30 AM, Kansas King said:

I'm assuming you used the same shafts?

One question? Why not blend your T200s with T100s? 

Regarding blending with the T100 or T100S, I hit both and did not get the same joy in seeing the ball take off that I saw in the T200 during my fittings. I hit them well, but I had really wanted to get Miura irons.

A big point I realize I left out of my initial post is that the shafts are different between the two sets. I admit that I really wanted Miuras and bought them without doing a fitting. While I know that seems counter to my message emphasizing proper fitting, I would like to explain myself because I did not just blindly pick the Miura I liked best and buy them "off the rack" from Miura's website with aspirations of eventually playing blades with X-stiff shafts. I knew I wanted Miura irons, but I wanted to stay within my skill level and found the CB301 was the perfect blend of game improvement/players' distance looks and performance for my skills. I also called the only two fitting locations that say they carry Miura within a reasonable distance from me and asked if they had the CB301s and neither did.

I went for two fittings within the last year. One in October 2020 for the full bag, and again in March 2021 after new products came out where I got the T200s. I hit irons during both fittings but did the second one in March to do a more iron specific fitting as I felt rushed during the first to be able to do the whole bag. Over the course of both fittings, I hit the Srixon Z585, ZX5, JPX 921 Forged, and Ping i500 all with the Nippon 105S shaft and hit all the clubs well. After my first fitting, I actually ended being "fit" for the i500 with the Modus 105S. During my second fit, I had hit the T200 with the AMT Black (the stock shaft) and obviously also hit that really well as I ended up getting them.

When I was looking into Miura's online store, I saw the AMT Black S300 is not one of the shafts they carry, but they did offer the Modus 105 that I have hit well. I did substantial research to compare the Modus 105S and the AMT Black. I also researched the other iron heads I hit with the Modus shaft and compared them to the Miura 301 head. As I understand it, the only difference between the two shafts is the weight as the Nippon is not progressively weighted like the AMT. But the shafts do have virtually identical tip and butt frequencies and torque measurements. 

I would like to think I did full due diligence on my purchase and used what I learned from my actual fittings to properly fit myself for the Miuras. I realized the pictures did not upload properly on my initial post, but I would say I did a decent job as the numbers from TopTracer show I was able to maintain ball speed, distance, and forgiveness. I have also seen an increase in dispersions because I feel the T200 would occasionally give me one shot that would go 5-10 yards longer than normal, but the Miura more consistently goes the same distance on well-struck shots.

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Driver: :callaway-small: Mavrik Sub Zero 9º (Fujikura Pro 2.0 Tour Spec 6X)

3 Wood:callaway-small: Mavrik 15° (Aldila Rogue White 70S)

Hybrid: :callaway-small:Mavrik Pro 3 Hybrid 20° (KBS Proto 80 S)

4i-7i:titelist-small: T200 (AMT Black S300)

8i-PW:Miura: CB-301 (Nippon Modus3 105 S)

Wedges

:mizuno-small: T20 48/5 Satin (GW); T20 54/14 Blue Ion (SW) (Tour Issue S400)

:ping-small: Glide 3.0 Eye2 60/8 (LW) (Nippon Ping Z-Z115)

Putter:odyssey-small: Toulon Design Stroke Lab Las Vegas with H7 neck

Ball: :titelist-small: ProV1

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