Jump to content

Gapping


thefullmonte
 Share

Recommended Posts

Ok, so first two plunges in this experiment 

I picked up a TSI2 18* fairway wood (that needs a new shaft) and a 24* TSI2 Hybrid that should be here later this week.  
 

Looking for the Hybrid to fit the “long par 3” hole in the bag.  When demoing the fairway wood, I hit that exact combo I purchased…and it was the best feeling hybrid I’ve ever hit.  
 

The Fairway wood has a 70g HZRDUS RDX shaft in it; like to get a 80 or 85g in there ASAP. But even that was consistently 215-220-ish.  


Will start with these two and see where we go.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder if you should just try a somewhat shorter and slightly heavier fairway wood.  It can even be close to the same loft as your 3w.  

Personally, I've recently done this with my own 3w.  I managed to find 90g and even 100g+ shafts that I could plug in to one of my 3w's.  It's helped with consistency quite a bit.  They're not easy to find, but they're still out there.  My current options have been RIP Alpha 80, RIP Beta 90, and NV105, the last being essentially impossible these days.

I realize I'm chiming in a little late.  🙂
 

Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 10*, Aldila NV75 X, 43.5" -or- SpeedZone, HZRDUS Black 75 6.5, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, RIP Beta 90, 42" -or- Stage 2 Tour, NV105 X, 42.5"
2h or 3h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S -or- RIP Alpha 105 S
Irons:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft in progress, slowly); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 2-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R
GW: Dynacraft Dual Milled CNC 52*, Steelfiber 125 S; Scratch 8620 DS 53*, Steelfiber 125 S
SW:  Ram TG-898 56*, DGX ss2x; Ram Tom Watson 55*, DGX ss2x; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS; PM Grind 19 58*, stock shaft
Putter:  Mizuno TPM-2, 34"
Ball:  Wilson Staff Duo Professional, TM TP5

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The shafts in the existing clubs were without question too light.

 

even the last 12 hours, I’m trying to shop for a heavier shaft in the new fairway wood…and I can’t find anything without spending more on a shaft than I did the club

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you're a Stiff flex guy, and like the NV, here's an NV95 S
https://www.ebay.com/itm/383603831953?epid=1502300808&hash=item595091f491:g:hGYAAOxyUrZSsgV-

Same seller has an RIP Beta 90 X, if that hits your target (this was my source for my two RIP Beta 90 shafts).  There's also some Tour Green and Tour Blue 85 shafts of various flexes available in their store.

Disclaimer:  unaffiliated with them, other than as a (repeat) customer
 

Edited by NRJyzr

Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 10*, Aldila NV75 X, 43.5" -or- SpeedZone, HZRDUS Black 75 6.5, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, RIP Beta 90, 42" -or- Stage 2 Tour, NV105 X, 42.5"
2h or 3h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S -or- RIP Alpha 105 S
Irons:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft in progress, slowly); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 2-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R
GW: Dynacraft Dual Milled CNC 52*, Steelfiber 125 S; Scratch 8620 DS 53*, Steelfiber 125 S
SW:  Ram TG-898 56*, DGX ss2x; Ram Tom Watson 55*, DGX ss2x; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS; PM Grind 19 58*, stock shaft
Putter:  Mizuno TPM-2, 34"
Ball:  Wilson Staff Duo Professional, TM TP5

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I went to a 5W & 7W and my consistency has increased tremendously. I never could hit a hybrid consistently. Adjusted the 7W to play at 23 degrees and fits perfectly between my 5W and 5i. The trajectory is nice and high and lands softly. It holds well into most greens and it has actually become one of my favorite clubs. 

Driver: :titelist-small:TSi3 Graphite Design Tour AD XC-6 X-Flex

3 wood :titelist-small: HZRFUS Smoke Yellow 70 6.5 Flex

5 wood :titelist-small: TSi3 Graphite Design Tour AD HD-7 X-Flex

7 wood :titelist-small: TSi2 Graphite Design Tour AD IZ-8 X-Flex

5-7 iron :taylormade-small: P-770 KBS C-Taper Stiff

8-9 iron :taylormade-small: P-7MB KBS C-Taper Stiff

46-50-54-58 Wedges :vokey-small: SM8 Custom KBS C-Taper 46-50 : KBS Hi-Rev 2.0 54-58

Putter :cameron-small:  Phantom X 11.5

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, KDM0716 said:

I went to a 5W & 7W and my consistency has increased tremendously. I never could hit a hybrid consistently. Adjusted the 7W to play at 23 degrees and fits perfectly between my 5W and 5i. The trajectory is nice and high and lands softly. It holds well into most greens and it has actually become one of my favorite clubs. 

Today was the first round with the new 5W in the bag.   I still want to get a slightly heavier shaft in it, but I had a couple beautiful shots that really surprised me.

 

I’ll say this, I am absolutely smitten with the new Titleist TSi2 line.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Feedback here has been extremely helpful.  Wanted to provide an update and ask another question.  
 

5 Wood had another dynamite day on the course; last two rounds have been the lowest scores of the season.  Couldn’t be happier with mew additions to the bag.

5W has been consistently between 220-235 yards with the heavier (loaner from a friend) shaft in.  

Today was first day on the course with the TSi2 5 Hybrid.  The intent here was for something on long Par 3’s and more difficult lies.  Absolutely delivered today in both categories.  Even had an Eagle where I stuck the Hybrid about 15 ft from the pin.

This is going to be sort of an odd comment…but I almost feel like there isn’t quite enough gap between the two though.  The Hybrid was 210-ish on a couple shots.

Given the difference in the ball flights, I’m thinking the similarity isn’t the biggest issue.  But I’m almost tempted to either loft the Hybrid up…or add another hybrid???  It’s already a 24* and it almost feels absurd to go for another 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, thefullmonte said:

Feedback here has been extremely helpful.  Wanted to provide an update and ask another question.  
 

5 Wood had another dynamite day on the course; last two rounds have been the lowest scores of the season.  Couldn’t be happier with mew additions to the bag.

5W has been consistently between 220-235 yards with the heavier (loaner from a friend) shaft in.  

Today was first day on the course with the TSi2 5 Hybrid.  The intent here was for something on long Par 3’s and more difficult lies.  Absolutely delivered today in both categories.  Even had an Eagle where I stuck the Hybrid about 15 ft from the pin.

This is going to be sort of an odd comment…but I almost feel like there isn’t quite enough gap between the two though.  The Hybrid was 210-ish on a couple shots.

Given the difference in the ball flights, I’m thinking the similarity isn’t the biggest issue.  But I’m almost tempted to either loft the Hybrid up…or add another hybrid???  It’s already a 24* and it almost feels absurd to go for another 

You have at least a 10 yard gap and as much as a 25 yard gap between the hybrid and 5w that’s not too similar and where most people should be, although the 15 yard gap in the 5w between shots is a lot I’m guessing that’s more of a strike/swing issue. 
 

Unless you have a big gap between the hybrid and the iron below it i don’t see a need to add another hybrid. Playing with the loft settings to tweak the hybrid or the 5w is where I would start.

Then if still debating on adding a club go find a fitter who offers bag gapping and have the numbers analyzed to see what works best for your needs and swing and then setup the bag based on that 

  • Like 3

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, thefullmonte said:

5W has been consistently between 220-235 yards 

The Hybrid was 210-ish on a couple shots.

 

What you are describing is 227 on average with the 5w and average of 210 with the hybrid.  Seems like a good gapping.    Golf clubs are like shotguns and not sniper rifles..it is a dispersion circle not a dispersion do.  some shots go longer and some shorter and there may be a slight overlap between the club above and below.   

  • Like 5
  • Love 1

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  :seemore-small: mFGP2

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, cnosil said:

What you are describing is 227 on average with the 5w and average of 210 with the hybrid.  Seems like a good gapping.    Golf clubs are like shotguns and not sniper rifles..it is a dispersion circle not a dispersion do.  some shots go longer and some shorter and there may be a slight overlap between the club above and below.   

I was incredibly pleased with the left to right dispersion; but less confident in the distance dispersion with the Hybrid.  I carded an eagle yesterday with it sticking the second shot from 200-ish.  But the last hole I was 210 out and flew the green by 15 yards.   My irons are usually really consistent re distance.  I’m guessing that’s something that likely comes with a few more rounds with it in the bag.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also, for as often as I play, I’m almost brand new to actually attempting to score well when I play.  The feedback and input here has been extremely helpful.  I wanted to make sure to say Thank You for those that have routinely taken time to offer that feedback and insight.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's hard to talk about gapping in terms of yardage because we all hit certain clubs differently.  

One individual player has to work gapping issues out for him or herself because another's solution won't work for him or her.

Off the top of my head, I know my lofts but I'd have to look at them to notice the gaps. 

In this era of GPS, most of us know how long we usually hit anything when making decent contact under similar conditions. 

I have holes at certain distances in my game to be sure, but I live with that to include the clubs that I hit well.  If you hit everything well, you can plug those gaps using that as a criteria to configure your set.

The only gaps I can call up to mind immediately are 6° gaps between a 42° 9-iron through a 60° lob wedges.  In other words, 42-48-54-60.

I'd have to actually look at the others to compare them to the solutions offered by the Spys here.

Driver___12º  [only off tee]

Fwy Wd___16° [almost only off tee]

Fwy Wd___19°

Fwy Wd.__22°

Driving iron___20° [only off tee]

5-iron___27º

6-iron___30°

7-iron___34°

8-iron___38°

9-iron___42º

W1___48°

W2___54°

W3___60º [very few full shots]

 

When I actually look at it, the loft gaps aren't terribly distorted at all.   Nevertheless, there are some trick anomalies, not major ones,  in actual distances.

But I've got clubs that I feel I can hit so that's the priority.

 

 

 

 

Edited by BostonSal

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, BostonSal said:

It's hard to talk about gapping in terms of yardage because we all hit certain clubs differently.  

One individual player has to work gapping issues out for him or herself because another's solution won't work for him or her.

The only gaps I can call up to mind immediately are 6° gaps between a 42° 9-iron through a 60° lob wedges.  In other words, 42-48-54-60.

 

We talk about gapping in terms of yardage because that is the gapping that matters and you can’t talk about a clubs loft because the balls go different distances.  
 

you talk about degrees of loft a lot but there is so much more that impacts distance.  I hit a lot of clubs every year as a most wanted tester and one that Head design, shaft length, total club weight, swing speed, and yes loft impact distance.  Different clubs with the same loft may have different launch angles, different spin characteristics, and may be swung differently by the player which will influence carry and overall distance.   Based on your swing speed you may need that 6* to get the necessary distance gaps.  Someone that swings faster may only need 2* between those clubs and someone that swings slower might be able to drop two of those clubs from their set.  Manufacturers also have different loft gaps between clubs within a set
 

you are correct, the player has to work things out for themselves.  Most of the issues with gapping fall at the long end if the bag because those clubs get harder to hit and the distance gaps get smaller due to poor contact. Here you start to talk about club design because irons, Fairway woods, and hybrids will all work differently.  The suggestions provided are just that suggestions since the player needs to actually go hit the club to see how well they hit the club and if the ball goes the right distance with the desired ball flight.  
 

Ultimately there are no rules on how a set needs to be setup for a player to accomplish their goals.  There are lots of things to consider and knowing a clubs loft is probably one of the last things a player needs to know.  

  • Like 4

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  :seemore-small: mFGP2

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, cnosil said:

 

 There are lots of things to consider and knowing a clubs loft is probably one of the last things a player needs to know.  

You only need to know what they're supposed to be if you have them checked for loft and lie at the beginning of the season.

Our pro shop offers that service, so occasionally, people do that.

That would just be the irons and wedges.

You know the driver and the fairway woods lofts because the manufacturer publishes them, even though you don't do anything about them.

Unless they have those adjustable sleeves like many now have.

 

But of course, loft is but one of many factors that determine ball flight, the others being club design and quality of contact.

There's no question that a multi-piece 25° 5-iron is designed quite differently than a 32º classic blade 5-iron from 1960.

Is anybody even questioning that?  

A decision was made, when technology required changing loft settings, to keep the club numbers more in line [although not exactly] with the lengths of the clubs rather than the lofts.

They could have just as easily still stamped "5" instead of "7" on the 32° degree club

while making the very same modern club with no difference in the club other than the stamping,

They went the other way, but it was going to be different one way or the other, no matter what decision was made.

 

We observe the difference from that with which we grew up, but that's all that is is.  An observation.

 

 

Edited by BostonSal

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, BostonSal said:

You know the driver and the fairway woods lofts because the manufacturer publishes them, even though you don't do anything about them.

Actually you don’t unless it’s been digitally measured and provide to you. I have had drivers that were measured and be .75 and 1.5* off. I have a had several fairway woods any where from .5 to 1.2* off pictured is a 19* 5w measured at 18.5. Many drivers are upwards of 2* off. 

679CF781-B64A-4AEB-AB23-416781BBD0F9.jpeg

  • Like 2

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Actually you don’t unless it’s been digitally measured and provide to you. I have had drivers that were measured and be .75 and 1.5* off. I have a had several fairway woods any where from .5 to 1.2* off pictured is a 19* 5w measured at 18.5. Many drivers are upwards of 2* off. 

679CF781-B64A-4AEB-AB23-416781BBD0F9.jpeg

That's interesting to know.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Actually you don’t unless it’s been digitally measured and provide to you. I have had drivers that were measured and be .75 and 1.5* off. I have a had several fairway woods any where from .5 to 1.2* off pictured is a 19* 5w measured at 18.5. Many drivers are upwards of 2* off. 

Manufacturing tolerances are great things 😁.  This potential variation applies to every club in the bag.  

  • Like 2

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  :seemore-small: mFGP2

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Manufacturing tolerances are great things 😁.  This potential variation applies to every club in the bag.  

Yeah. I think many will be surprised how big of a tolerance there is from the manufacturers for loft and lie and swing weight.  Most would probably be surprised that when they place custom orders for swing weights most manufacturers will try to come close but don’t guarantee it. One of the few companies that does a good job at that is Ping. They will also digitally measure if requested. If I order anything Ping I try to do it during demo days and let their reps submit the order so that if we do a non standard swing weight it will get submitted properly and done.

I’ve had wedges from Vokey and Cleveland be 2* off on loft. Both times they were weaker than stated loft

  • Like 2

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Actually you don’t unless it’s been digitally measured and provide to you. I have had drivers that were measured and be .75 and 1.5* off. I have a had several fairway woods any where from .5 to 1.2* off pictured is a 19* 5w measured at 18.5. Many drivers are upwards of 2* off. 

 


This is part of why I have a hard time buying fixed hosel clubs in the fairway woods and hybrids.  It's too easy to find yourself with two clubs with specs 3* or 4* apart, but maybe a degree apart in reality.

It can also be that way with adjustable clubs, but at least you can make an attempt to do something about it.  

The issue in drivers in the 90s and early-mid 2000s was truly bad.  It was fine for low trajectory players, but for those with naturally higher trajectories, it was a nightmare finding an OEM club you could actually hit.  It's why I spent so long in the component driver world (such as SMT); the components tended not to use the +3 or +4 and -0  tolerance that you'd see in OEM-land

Edited by NRJyzr
  • Like 1

Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 10*, Aldila NV75 X, 43.5" -or- SpeedZone, HZRDUS Black 75 6.5, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, RIP Beta 90, 42" -or- Stage 2 Tour, NV105 X, 42.5"
2h or 3h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S -or- RIP Alpha 105 S
Irons:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft in progress, slowly); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 2-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R
GW: Dynacraft Dual Milled CNC 52*, Steelfiber 125 S; Scratch 8620 DS 53*, Steelfiber 125 S
SW:  Ram TG-898 56*, DGX ss2x; Ram Tom Watson 55*, DGX ss2x; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS; PM Grind 19 58*, stock shaft
Putter:  Mizuno TPM-2, 34"
Ball:  Wilson Staff Duo Professional, TM TP5

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:


This is part of why I have a hard time buying fixed hosel clubs in the fairway woods and hybrids.  It's too easy to find yourself with two clubs with specs 3* or 4* apart, but maybe a degree apart in reality.

It can also be that way with adjustable clubs, but at least you can make an attempt to do something about it.  

The issue in drivers in the 90s and early-mid 2000s was truly bad.  It was fine for low trajectory players, but for those with naturally higher trajectories, it was a nightmare finding an OEM club you could actually hit.  It's why I spent so long in the component driver world (such as SMT); the components tended not to use the +3 or +4 and -0  tolerance that you'd see in OEM-land

I try to avoid fixed fw too unless I’m ordering from a customer club builder and will try to buy tour versions because I know what I’m getting or unless I’m looking for one that is purely for going as far as possible.

The early to mid 2000s I couldn’t get a Callaway or TaylorMade driver that worked for me without having to go premium shaft.  I stuck with titleist and Ping for that reason. 
 

I heard rumors the media solheim would stamp lower lofts on the drivers to market to the golfers who so a 9* was 11-12* of loft. 

  • Like 1

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...