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Where to start with fixing this swingweight nonsense?


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I made a huge mistake today. I checked the weights and swingweights of my clubs today because the last few times I've gone out something has felt off. Now I have the numbers to show that something is definitely off. My driver, 3 wood, and hybrids are fine. They are a little lower in SW than I would prefer, but that is easily fixed and they follow an expected pattern. The problem is really with my irons and wedges. I want to preface this by saying that I am far from a good player, but I do suffer from some hypersensitivity to spec differences. Back when I was playing tennis, all of my racquets had to be with 0.1g of each other, 2mm in balance, identical swingweights (tennis swingweight is a dynamic measurement unlike golf clubs), and I was extremely sensitive to string tension. This will play into my issue with my irons and wedges as I found out today.

Club Description Weight (grams) Swing Weight
Srixon I-701 - 5 Iron 450.0 D2
Srixon I-701 - 6 Iron 458.4 D2
Srixon I-701 - 7 Iron 451.8 D1
Srixon I-701 - 8 Iron 456.3 D1
Srixon I-701 - 9 Iron 467.2 D2
Srixon I-701 - Pitching Wedge 472.5 D4
Callaway X-Forged 50 Wedge 475.4 D5
Callaway X-Forged 54 Wedge 481.6 D6
Callaway X-Forged 58 Wedge 461.3 D6

So, I'm at a bit of a loss here. The drop in both weight and swing weight at the 7 and 8 iron is giving me a lot of issues. Ideally, I'm looking for a D4 in the irons and D6 in the wedges. Now, I know I could add weight to each club as necessary to match the swingweights where I want, but with the overall weights kind of all over the place, I'm worried that the static weight differences are going to bother me to no end. It's been awhile since I did any club building and I don't have equipment to make it easy and convenient. If I had to guess, I'm looking at pulling the heads, checking the heads and making adjustments as necessary as a minimum. Based on what I find there, I wouldn't be surprised if I have to pull grips and add counter weights to some clubs to make everything work. At a certain point, it almost seems that I would be better off getting new shafts and starting over compared to sinking too much effort into these older Rifle shafts. Is there a simpler way that I am missing that would allow me to match up the swing weights and keep a steady progression in static weight?

Driver: Srixon Z565, Miyazaki Kaula Mizu
3 Wood: Snake Eyes Viper Tour, Aldila NV
Hybrids: Snake Eyes Viper Tour 18 and 24 deg, Aldila NV
Irons: Srixon I-701 5-PW, Nippon Modus3 Tour 120
Wedges: Callaway X-Forged 50, 54, and 58, Nippon Modus3 Wedge 115
Putter: Yes! Marilyn

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To further understand and help with your hypersensitivity I t would be good to know the full story about the clubs. 

Are the lengths of the club lowering at 1/2" intervals

you said "older Rifles" does that mean you installed them yourself or was a custom build?

third what are the lie angles of the clubs? do they progress evenly too?

all the questions above relate to swing weight where you may find the cause of the problem.

 

Or you could add about 2 grams of lead to the 7 and 8 iron head and the Srixons are the same swing weight with the wedges getting heavier. IMO is a good thing. the PW is a bit heavy but in line with the increase/

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Driver - 44.5" 5.0 flex 10.5 deg ACCRA tour Z GP MCC4+ 1 deg closed

Irons - 5-pw, GW stnd length 5.0 flex same grip 1 deg flat. Type low medium offset cavity back, no diggers

Wedges - 56 and 60 tour grind wedge spinner and mcc4+ grip 2 flat 10 and 8 in bounce

Putter - 33" 3 deg loft 70 lie, lrg slight line slightly toe hang

Ball - truvis

Carried in a Sun Mountain C-130 USA bag - BE PROUD.

HC - LH but 85 is a good number, playing in Ohio.

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I didn’t catch if you were the original buyer of the clubs either. 
 

Some people don’t care about swingweight, but MOI match instead, which is a measurement taken from the end of the grip rather than the 14 inch fulcrum or whatever it is. That is a possibility here, albeit the weights of the 2 irons still look off based on my limited understanding of that process.

In addition to what McGolf said, I’d be wondering if the shafts in the wedges all the same? As well, whether all the grips the same model and color.

:ping-small: g400 lst

:callaway-small: x2 hot pro 17* :taylormade-small:M4 22* hybrid

New Level PF-2 p-7, 902 6-5

:taylormade-small: hi-toe 51* and 57*

:mizuno-small: M Craft IV

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Having just gone through this and having my ZX5's adjusted, I'm curious how this proceeds.  How did you measure the swing weights; your own scale, pro shop? The reason I ask is that I tried one of the "manual" on-line calculators and found it inaccurate.  I subsequently purchased a SW scale and have compared it to a production facilities equipment to verify accuracy. Starting the SW adjustment with bogus numbers = No Bueno. @McGolfreally helped me out in deciding how best to resolve the problem - so you've got one of our forums best to assist 👍.

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:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

 

 

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I would start by just adding some lead tape to the 7 & 8 irons to bring the swing weight and total weight up to where you want it.  You can add it in the exact increments you need to get it perfect.  Then depending on how much you end up needing you could just leave it as a permanent fix or you would have a good start on what you need to do going forward.

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On 9/16/2021 at 12:39 PM, McGolf said:

To further understand and help with your hypersensitivity I t would be good to know the full story about the clubs. 

Are the lengths of the club lowering at 1/2" intervals

you said "older Rifles" does that mean you installed them yourself or was a custom build?

third what are the lie angles of the clubs? do they progress evenly too?

all the questions above relate to swing weight where you may find the cause of the problem.

 

Or you could add about 2 grams of lead to the 7 and 8 iron head and the Srixons are the same swing weight with the wedges getting heavier. IMO is a good thing. the PW is a bit heavy but in line with the increase/

Thanks for the responses. I'll try to answer as best I can. The iron lengths go down in 1/2" intervals, but all of the Callaway wedges are the same length (I know, I'm weird). I originally purchased the clubs with standard DG shafts but then had them replaced with the Rifle Flighted shafts after about a year. This was after I moved for college and no longer had access to the equipment at my old job so the work was done by another. The lie angles are 2 degrees upright, which would be a 64 degree lie angle 7-iron. They do progress normally from there. They have always been 1/2" long so I am used to higher swingweights and prefer that. 

13 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Having just gone through this and having my ZX5's adjusted, I'm curious how this proceeds.  How did you measure the swing weights; your own scale, pro shop? The reason I ask is that I tried one of the "manual" on-line calculators and found it inaccurate.  I subsequently purchased a SW scale and have compared it to a production facilities equipment to verify accuracy. Starting the SW adjustment with bogus numbers = No Bueno. @McGolfreally helped me out in deciding how best to resolve the problem - so you've got one of our forums best to assist 👍.

I did use the calculator online along with some measurements and for my case it appears to be reasonably accurate. I will take the clubs to the shop tomorrow and get them measured on their swingweight scale to verify. From there I will know where I'm going. Based on the initial measurements and calculations and far too much time on this, I found a way to get the static and swing weights to something that would be typical for me. Unfortunately, this would mean adding a total of 104 grams of weight between the different clubs in this group. If it turns out that the swingweight calculation is hugely wrong I will have to modify my work to get where I want the clubs. In ideal world, these are the specs that I believe I can get to. The MOI matching might make more sense to me logically, but that brings about a whole extra measurement and calculation.

Club Description Weight (grams) Balance Point (inch)   Swing Weight
Srixon I-701 - 5 Iron 457.0 27.680   D4.0
Srixon I-701 - 6 Iron 462.0 27.530   D4.0
Srixon I-701 - 7 Iron 467.0 27.390   D4.0
Srixon I-701 - 8 Iron 472.0 27.240   D4.0
Srixon I-701 - 9 Iron 477.0 27.110   D4.0
Srixon I-701 - Pitching Wedge 482.0 26.970   D4.0
Callaway X-Forged 50 Wedge 487.0 27.040   D6.0
Callaway X-Forged 54 Wedge 487.0 27.040   D6.0
Callaway X-Forged 58 Wedge 487.0 27.040   D6.0
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Driver: Srixon Z565, Miyazaki Kaula Mizu
3 Wood: Snake Eyes Viper Tour, Aldila NV
Hybrids: Snake Eyes Viper Tour 18 and 24 deg, Aldila NV
Irons: Srixon I-701 5-PW, Nippon Modus3 Tour 120
Wedges: Callaway X-Forged 50, 54, and 58, Nippon Modus3 Wedge 115
Putter: Yes! Marilyn

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I would use a scale to verify sw's before doing anything.  Then using the sw of the iron that performs the best for me, I'd us lead tape on every other club to match that and verify it translates to on course performance over a month or two of playing.  After making adjustments I'd decide how to make the weight changes permanent.  In my experience wedge lengths are generally the same, I don't think you are weird for that.  

and I'd listen to any advice McGolf has to offer...he is a great resource....check out his you tube channel.

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Modern Bag:  Sub70 849 Pro 9*, Hazrdous Smoke S Flex;  Titleist 915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex;  Snake Eyes 15*, & 23* Hybrids; Mizuno JPX 900 Forged 5 - PW, PX LZ 6.0;  Cleveland Tour Action 49*, 53*, 57*; PX LZ 6.5 ;  Ping Heppler Fetch;  Ball - Snell MTB-X; Bag - Sun Mountain H2NO 

Classic Bag:  Driver - Wilson Staff Persimmon; 3w - Hogan Speed Slot; 5w - Wilson Staff Tour Block; 3 - pw - Staff Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson;  putter - bullseye standard or flange.

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Good answers.

Nothing beats an actual measurement such as on a SW scale. When you go to the shop you find even more issues or,,,, none at all. However if your feel is heighten then the 7 and 8 iron is where I would concentrate. 

The wedge being the same is not weird. I made clubs like that for years with the idea heavier SW is better has the loft goes up. Which leads me to question the SW of the wedges. It would mean the clubs would be progressively heavier.

lastly, Rifle Flighted (depending on the generation made) are made such that the changes in the shaft occur at the 7/8 iron and this too may be the issue. particularly when placed in clubs with different hosel lengths from the original use heads.

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Driver - 44.5" 5.0 flex 10.5 deg ACCRA tour Z GP MCC4+ 1 deg closed

Irons - 5-pw, GW stnd length 5.0 flex same grip 1 deg flat. Type low medium offset cavity back, no diggers

Wedges - 56 and 60 tour grind wedge spinner and mcc4+ grip 2 flat 10 and 8 in bounce

Putter - 33" 3 deg loft 70 lie, lrg slight line slightly toe hang

Ball - truvis

Carried in a Sun Mountain C-130 USA bag - BE PROUD.

HC - LH but 85 is a good number, playing in Ohio.

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"Warning" self promotion statement to occur

If you want to talk golf equipment, I do a live stream on Mondays at 1730 or 530 pm eastern. on YouTube and Facebook. 

search out mcgolf custom clubs and you will find it. About an hour, usually a little than a hour, very laid back 

If this is improper please remove. 

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Driver - 44.5" 5.0 flex 10.5 deg ACCRA tour Z GP MCC4+ 1 deg closed

Irons - 5-pw, GW stnd length 5.0 flex same grip 1 deg flat. Type low medium offset cavity back, no diggers

Wedges - 56 and 60 tour grind wedge spinner and mcc4+ grip 2 flat 10 and 8 in bounce

Putter - 33" 3 deg loft 70 lie, lrg slight line slightly toe hang

Ball - truvis

Carried in a Sun Mountain C-130 USA bag - BE PROUD.

HC - LH but 85 is a good number, playing in Ohio.

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Just a quick update on this. I did not get a chance to check the SW at the local store because I got a call to visit a client site out of town over the weekend. I decided to try the MOI matching route instead since it makes more logical sense to me. So far I've cut off the old (2 month old) grips, pulled the shafts, and set up my spreadsheet calculations so I just need to plug in the component weights. It won't be absolutely perfect, but it will be very close based on the typical calculation of MOI. I've got a little bit of cleanup to do on the heads and shafts before weighing them but I have 3 days of conferences this week. 

Things aren't all cleaned up, but I've got a 20 gram difference between the 58 wedge shaft and the other two Wedges even though they are supposed to be the same shaft. I'll have to deal with that. Also the 7 and 8 iron shafts were a few grams light for the normal progression. The 7 iron head is a bit light. Nothing I can't work around for the head weights, but the shaft weights have me questioning whether I can use them or just start over and replace them all.

Edited by RichL85
Added information.
  • Hmmm 1

Driver: Srixon Z565, Miyazaki Kaula Mizu
3 Wood: Snake Eyes Viper Tour, Aldila NV
Hybrids: Snake Eyes Viper Tour 18 and 24 deg, Aldila NV
Irons: Srixon I-701 5-PW, Nippon Modus3 Tour 120
Wedges: Callaway X-Forged 50, 54, and 58, Nippon Modus3 Wedge 115
Putter: Yes! Marilyn

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I'm not familiar with the procedure for MOI matching, but I would say it's worth the money to replace the shaft in that 58 wedge if it is that far off from what it needs to be.  

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I got everything cleaned up and measured the heads and shafts. None of the heads are so far out of expectation that I can't deal with them. Highlighted are the areas of concern I have. 7 and 8 iron shafts are on the lighter side, and the 8 iron is cut 1/4" short. Apparently whoever did the install did not seat the 8-iron shaft all the way into the hosel, which is why the shaft is short. Then of course there is that 58 degree wedge shaft, 20 grams lighter than the other wedges. That seems like a large weight difference to me for what are supposed to be the same shafts. I think at this point, I'm looking at new shafts for the wedges at a minimum, but the 7 and 8 are causing me concern as well. 

MOI Matching Head Weight (g) Shaft Weight (g) Club Length (in)
5 Iron 250.2 130.4 38.75
6 Iron 259.2 127.4 38.25
7 Iron 263.7 117.2 37.75
8 Iron 272.9 113.9 37.00
9 Iron 280.2 116.8 36.75
PW 289.8 112.7 36.25
50 Wedge 299 109.6 36.00
54 Wedge 302.1 106.8 36.00
58 Wedge 303.4 87.0 36.00

Driver: Srixon Z565, Miyazaki Kaula Mizu
3 Wood: Snake Eyes Viper Tour, Aldila NV
Hybrids: Snake Eyes Viper Tour 18 and 24 deg, Aldila NV
Irons: Srixon I-701 5-PW, Nippon Modus3 Tour 120
Wedges: Callaway X-Forged 50, 54, and 58, Nippon Modus3 Wedge 115
Putter: Yes! Marilyn

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