Hosel, Shaft Sizes & Insert Depth

[fixyurdivot]

Like my experiences with a number of other industries, and more specifically aerospace hardware/components, my new foray into club building quickly reminds me how we engineers abhor the idea of standardization .  While looking at shaft pulls and used heads for my first iron build project, I see the "sticky wicket" of varied hosel and shaft diameters. I then start to wonder just how many combinations there are and I stumble onto this thread, and specifically a post/reply by Tom Wishon. 

Seems pretty safe that I can rule out the myriad of odd sizes from yesteryears as I don't plan to build vintage stuff... but its good to know those variances exist. 

So I've seen a handful of you basically recommend to match the shaft tip to hosel diameter whenever possible (makes sense), but also see that a 0.355 and shim into a 0.370 is common.  Common perhaps, but what are the downsides?  I also see that sanding (removing) 0.015 over the inset depth is not uncommon - but again, what are the issues?  If carefully blended as to leave no sharp step (stress riser), does removing that much material introduce the likelihood of failure?

Lastly, what about insertion depth?  Most of the more current information I'm seeing states that should be between 1-1/8 to 1-1/2".  I'm asking about this partly so I can ascertain what a "play length" will be should I find some shaft pulls. I see that Golfworks offers a pretty good library on various iron head hosel size and insert depth... are there any other sources besides the OEM's?

Thanks All!

 

 

[BostonSal]

1 hour ago, fixyurdivot said:

Like my experiences with a number of other industries, and more specifically aerospace hardware/components, my new foray into club building quickly reminds me how we engineers abhor the idea of standardization .  While looking at shaft pulls and used heads for my first iron build project, I see the "sticky wicket" of varied hosel and shaft diameters. I then start to wonder just how many combinations there are and I stumble onto this thread, and specifically a post/reply by Tom Wishon. 

Seems pretty safe that I can rule out the myriad of odd sizes from yesteryears as I don't plan to build vintage stuff... but its good to know those variances exist. 

So I've seen a handful of you basically recommend to match the shaft tip to hosel diameter whenever possible (makes sense), but also see that a 0.355 and shim into a 0.370 is common.  Common perhaps, but what are the downsides?  I also see that sanding (removing) 0.015 over the inset depth is not uncommon - but again, what are the issues?  If carefully blended as to leave no sharp step (stress riser), does removing that much material introduce the likelihood of failure?

Lastly, what about insertion depth?  Most of the more current information I'm seeing states that should be between 1-1/8 to 1-1/2".  I'm asking about this partly so I can ascertain what a "play length" will be should I find some shaft pulls. I see that Golfworks offers a pretty good library on various iron head hosel size and insert depth... are there any other sources besides the OEM's?

Thanks All!

 

 

There was a period not too long ago--well, I guess it's been a while now-- when things were worse in terms of standardization.

Wilson had "fat shafts."

Top Flite had .400" tip diameter driver and fairway wood shafts.

And there were several   "shaft over hosel" iron models on the market that also worked with nothing but original shafts.

I remember at least one hybrid manufacturer that used the narrower wood size tips instead of iron size tips.

These trends are happily in remission now, but I wouldn't put anything past the OEMs.

GolfWorks used to more or less be the bible for this information, but unfortunately, I haven't kept abreast.

[dlow206]

My opinion on 0.355 shimmed to 0.370 and 0.370 sanded (graphite) to 0.355 if done correctly, is unlikely to cause an issue. Maybe there could be an issue if we are talking about really lightweight, really soft graphite shafts that have very thin tips. 

Hosel depth and buying pulls is a challenge because it will vary between OEMs. I won't buy pulls anymore. 

[Calvo90]

4 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Lastly, what about insertion depth?  Most of the more current information I'm seeing states that should be between 1-1/8 to 1-1/2".  I'm asking about this partly so I can ascertain what a "play length" will be should I find some shaft pulls. I see that Golfworks offers a pretty good library on various iron head hosel size and insert depth... are there any other sources besides the OEM's?

Thanks All!

If I understood correctly your question you should be asking about BBTG measurement (bottom bore to ground measurement) to determine total length of the club (BBTG + shaft pull length equals total club length). BBTG info is near impossible to obtain from OEM and I have not really seen any info on the internet so the only way is measuring it yourself by removing one iron head.

If you are interested about BBTG of Srixon irons I can measure my Srixon Z565 heads tomorrow. 

[fixyurdivot]

5 hours ago, dlow206 said:

Hosel depth and buying pulls is a challenge because it will vary between OEMs. I won't buy pulls anymore. 

Aren't the majority of hosel depths, once reamed/cleaned out to original factory condition, in the 1-1/8 to 1-1/2 inch?  I wondered about a pull that had deeper insertion than the new head its going into, and any blemish from the previous depth showing above the end of hosel, but figure the ferrule covers that?  What specifically have you experienced with pulls Derrick?

[dlow206]

6 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Aren't the majority of hosel depths, once reamed/cleaned out to original factory condition, in the 1-1/8 to 1-1/2 inch?  I wondered about a pull that had deeper insertion than the new head its going into, and any blemish from the previous depth showing above the end of hosel, but figure the ferrule covers that?  What specifically have you experienced with pulls Derrick?

I guess hosel depth itself isn’t my issue. More so that when someone is selling a set of pulls that played “standard”, you have to figure out what “standard” is and how “standard” is measured. Also, not all sets these days are gapped 0.5” apart, sometimes the gapping varies. And with graphite shafts, i am very OCD with how the tips were sanded lol.

[fixyurdivot]

2 hours ago, Calvo90 said:

If I understood correctly your question you should be asking about BBTG measurement (bottom bore to ground measurement) to determine total length of the club (BBTG + shaft pull length equals total club length). BBTG info is near impossible to obtain from OEM and I have not really seen any info on the internet so the only way is measuring it yourself by removing one iron head.

If you are interested about BBTG of Srixon irons I can measure my Srixon Z565 heads tomorrow. 

I'm just referring to (and asking about) the "general rule of thumb" on hosel depths on modern iron heads. I play +1/2" so when considering any shaft pulls, I'm looking for those that measure accordingly (or longer that can be trimmed).  I realize that even if the range is 1.125 to 1.500 inch, that's 0.375 that needs to be accounted for in getting to desired play length.

[fixyurdivot]

1 minute ago, dlow206 said:

I guess hosel depth itself isn’t my issue. More so that when someone is selling a set of pulls that played “standard”, you have to figure out what “standard” is and how “standard” is measured. Also, not all sets these days are gapped 0.5” apart, sometimes the gapping varies. And with graphite shafts, i am very OCD with how the tips were sanded lol.

Yea, good points.  Many sellers do show/list the actual length of all shafts.  I wouldn't consider a set that dosen't have that info.

[ChitownM2]

I was in the same boat and just got in the last items I need to build my first set. Now if I could just get some time away from work to build them....

I would say you should buy the heads first and then look for shafts.  You also need to have a 0.355 shaft lying around so that you can determine what the BBTG for the heads are and then you will know what shafts to shop for and can determine what the playing length will be without any surprises. 

I started off picking up a set of shafts that I was going to swap in to a set of sim heads but ended up selling the irons before I got around to swapping them.  At that point I had a set of 0.370 shafts and was looking for heads and found a set of Srixon Z355 for a great price but they are some weird in between 0.360 hosels.  I ended up trading the 0.370 shafts for some 0.355 ones after a bunch of research because I decided that trying to sand the tips evenly enough to fit properly was going to be a pain.  I also didn't want to bore out the hosels although it seemed like that wouldn't actually have been that bad so I'm now going to use the 0.355 shafts with some quick center to hopefully take out the small amount of play.

[Calvo90]

7 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

I'm just referring to (and asking about) the "general rule of thumb" on hosel depths on modern iron heads. I play +1/2" so when considering any shaft pulls, I'm looking for those that measure accordingly (or longer that can be trimmed).  I realize that even if the range is 1.125 to 1.500 inch, that's 0.375 that needs to be accounted for in getting to desired play length.

I understand, I was just trying to warn you about BBTG measurement. I found this relevant because when I bought +0,5 inch pulls from (I think) Mizuno irons and dry fit them into Srixons, they were only 0,25 inch longer than standard. I thought the seller measured them wrong but when I dry fit them in Mizuno head, the total measurement of the club was +0,5 inch as advertised despite the same hosel insertion depth. Reason for that was because of BBTG of Srixon irons was smaller than that of the Mizuno.

http://image.slidesharecdn.com/shafttrimminginstructionsv5-090910085457-phpapp02/95/basics-of-golf-club-shaft-trimming-11-728.jpg

Edited September 18, 2021 by Calvo90

[fixyurdivot]

On 9/18/2021 at 12:54 AM, Calvo90 said:

I understand, I was just trying to warn you about BBTG measurement. I found this relevant because when I bought +0,5 inch pulls from (I think) Mizuno irons and dry fit them into Srixons, they were only 0,25 inch longer than standard. I thought the seller measured them wrong but when I dry fit them in Mizuno head, the total measurement of the club was +0,5 inch as advertised despite the same hosel insertion depth. Reason for that was because of BBTG of Srixon irons was smaller than that of the Mizuno.

http://image.slidesharecdn.com/shafttrimminginstructionsv5-090910085457-phpapp02/95/basics-of-golf-club-shaft-trimming-11-728.jpg

Thanks for pointing this out; definitely something I need to drill down on if I buy any shaft pulls.  Kicking around the idea of re-shafting my G410's with Recoils.  I see that they are a 0.355 taper and that the SMACWrap ES780 F3 shafts only require butt end trimming.  A new 8 shaft set is only $60 more than the pulled set I'm watching on eBay... no brainer.  

My fitting came down to the G425's or ZX5's with Accra, MMT, and Recoils in that order of performance. I hit the G425's against my G410's several times using the local shops PING kiosk and they are essentially identical.  I kind of like the look of the G425 badging better but I've already got the G410's.... so many options .

[McGolf]

for the irons, can a 355 fit into the 370 ,,, yes with a shim. Is there a down side? It is always preferable to be a one on one 370 to 370 355 to 355 etc however, and shim to take up the space is the accepted "repair" or assembly to ensure stability.

hosel depth is a manufacturer choice and tolerance. Mizuno can be different than Srixon, Callaway etc. Then what, that is when shaft profiles, weight , BBGm come into play which is off topic. 

From a graphite perspective sanding off a little to fit say a 370 to fit 355 fits in the category of "it depends" (the most used golf answer) some makes place plenty of material at the tip, those are great for removal,  those that are trying to make a ver light shaft that doesn't seem to occur and no its not very good to try. 

If you want to discuss this further join the live stream on mondays 1730 eastern time on the youtube channel. www.youtube.com/mcgolfcustomclubs 

Edited October 4, 2021 by McGolf