Mizuno Pro 221/223/225

[bens197]

43 minutes ago, Sluggo42 said:

Cmon Ben! Not everyone is out to get me… are they? Do I have a big sign on my back that says “kick me”?

All I know is, I wouldn't do that to you...

[MattWillGolf]

1 hour ago, Sluggo42 said:

I feel so dirty now…

Dirty or seen?

[Bubbly Pop]

Well, I received my 225's about a week ago, and after 27 holes they are getting traded in. I ordered them without even hitting them, as I've always loved Mizuno, these looked perfect for me, and they are beautiful.  However, and I hate to be the guy to say it, but the hollow bodied Mizuno 225's just doesn't feel like a Mizuno to me, not even close.  They are a nice profile size, and look exactly as I would want them to, but they just feel, well, hollow.  I'll try another Mizuno option, but these are not it.   

[Sluggo42]

1 hour ago, MattWillGolf said:

Dirty or seen?

Now just wondering if I was a perfect example of a sales ploy… even tho I was in the market…

but- if the lessons stick and I finally find a swing that is correct- then it’s all good

[Cremeens03]

Is it just me or do you think that the Mizuno Pro font on the backs of the club take a little bit of the classiness out of the look of them. I'm sure that they are fantastic club as Mizuno's are, I don't have any actual experience with these specific clubs. I just feel like it takes away from how sleek and nice the club is.

[sosuHands]

@Hook DeLoft I did have my loft and lies checked and had to have them adjusted, so its probably not the loft issue.

[chisag]

2 hours ago, Sluggo42 said:

Now just wondering if I was a perfect example of a sales ploy… even tho I was in the market…

but- if the lessons stick and I finally find a swing that is correct- then it’s all good

 

... While I have no doubt Golftec is always trying to add lessons to anything they do, especially a fitting, I don't think they targeted or tricked you. I was just having some fun a little at your expense. And as you said, you liked the guy and were ready for lessons anyway so we are all looking forward to hearing how your lessons go. 

[tmherron]

I was fitted for the 223's prior to launch in January. I used the Mizuno fitting system and had great results with the Nippon 950 shaft. I tried all 3 Mizuno Pro heads and the 223 worked best for me. Great looking and a great feel. I have and 8.9 HC Index and I am 67 years old so these irons will need to take me into my 70's. I am replacing my Ping I-200's. 

Driver Ping G425 Max

3,5 woods - Ping G400

7 wood - Ping G425

Irons 5-Gap Ping I200 Replacing with Mizuno Pro 223 (+1" Flat)

54,58 degree - Ping Glide

Putter - Odyssey White Hot #7 with Stroke Lab Shaft 36" 2 degrees up

Edited March 28, 2022 by tmherron

[MWGolf23]

On 3/11/2022 at 5:29 PM, Bubbly Pop said:

Well, I received my 225's about a week ago, and after 27 holes they are getting traded in. I ordered them without even hitting them, as I've always loved Mizuno, these looked perfect for me, and they are beautiful.  However, and I hate to be the guy to say it, but the hollow bodied Mizuno 225's just doesn't feel like a Mizuno to me, not even close.  They are a nice profile size, and look exactly as I would want them to, but they just feel, well, hollow.  I'll try another Mizuno option, but these are not it.   

That should be expected since they are a hollow body, made with chromoly 8-4, and include tungsten in most of the set. They are for higher handicap, slower swing speed players looking for forgiveness and distance as well as the blade aesthetic. Not feel.

If you prioritize the Mizuno forged feeling you'll get that from the 223 PW-8 as they are the 1025e steel fully forged like the 221 blades, a better feel with the 223s than in the 225s in the 7-4. Obviously the 221, JPX Tours and JPX Forged will have great forged, soft feeling as well. I will say the 225s still feel better to me than other players distance irons.

If feel is what you really want over distance and forgiveness, go with the 221s. Or 223s are a nice blended set of feel then forgiveness and distance in the mid to long irons. I wanted the best of both worlds. The blade buttery feel and then forgiveness and distance where I needed it. 223 PW-6 and 225 in the 5 and 4. Hope this helps!

[chisag]

30 minutes ago, MWGolf23 said:

That should be expected since they are a hollow body, made with chromoly 8-4, and include tungsten in most of the set. They are for higher handicap, slower swing speed players looking for forgiveness and distance as well as the blade aesthetic. Not feel.

 

... Really not true at all. They are geared toward mid to low index players that either never had a lot of club head speed or those that have lost some speed in their losing battle with Father Time. And feel is so very subjective. I don't think it is fair to compare a hollow head players distance iron to a solid forged MB but instead compare feel to other hollow head irons like P790's, T100S or Forged Tec. I have not hit the 225's yet but played P790's that felt a little dead and T100S that had a very dense feel for a players distance iron. Ymmv of course ...

[RickyBobby_PR]

31 minutes ago, chisag said:

And feel is so very subjective. I don't think it is fair to compare a hollow head players distance iron to a solid forged MB but instead compare feel to other hollow head irons like P790's, T100S or Forged Tec.

Especially when many are equating feel to the sound. And these are all good comparison irons as well as pxg 

[MWGolf23]

5 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... Really not true at all. They are geared toward mid to low index players that either never had a lot of club head speed or those that have lost some speed in their losing battle with Father Time. And feel is so very subjective. I don't think it is fair to compare a hollow head players distance iron to a solid forged MB but instead compare feel to other hollow head irons like P790's, T100S or Forged Tec. I have not hit the 225's yet but played P790's that felt a little dead and T100S that had a very dense feel for a players distance iron. Ymmv of course ...

@chisag My apologies. I said higher handicap and I should have clarified that it is for higher handicap than blade players. Higher handicap has definitely changed in my mindset to be 10-20 in MyGolfSpy's forum as most involved in this forum are no higher than that. A lot of good golfers here. Mizuno I believe often mentions 10+ handicap with some lower handicaps adding them in the long irons for extra help (don't exactly quote me on that). And when the product team is discussing the irons, they typically say higher handicap in reference to the other clubs, while mentioning the handicap range. So not super high handicap for sure. Players Distance. Good players seeking more distance/forgiveness for sure. You are correct in thinking it is not a GI iron with a ton of offset and we are on the same page with who should play this iron. Yes, I agree on the distance piece 100% and mentioned that. My father in fact finally got fitted and gained substantial distance moving from a more traditional loft set to the P790 and his handicap is similar to mine.

The person I was responding to was mentioning the Mizuno feel and that is why he is wanting to get rid of his 225s. The 225s aren't going to feel the best. The Mizuno feel is exclusively about their blades and small cavity forged irons. You are not going to get the coveted Mizuno feel from a hollow body iron or a GI club. It has to be a forged blade or a small cavity club. But yes, 225s could very well feel better than P790s. I too have not compared them against each other.

[Sluggo42]

On 3/11/2022 at 6:17 PM, chisag said:

 

... While I have no doubt Golftec is always trying to add lessons to anything they do, especially a fitting, I don't think they targeted or tricked you. I was just having some fun a little at your expense. And as you said, you liked the guy and were ready for lessons anyway so we are all looking forward to hearing how your lessons go. 

I started a thread in the “lessons” catagory, as today was first lesson…

[chisag]

4 hours ago, MWGolf23 said:

@chisag My apologies. I said higher handicap and I should have clarified that it is for higher handicap than blade players. Higher handicap has definitely changed in my mindset to be 10-20 in MyGolfSpy's forum as most involved in this forum are no higher than that. A lot of good golfers here. Mizuno I believe often mentions 10+ handicap with some lower handicaps adding them in the long irons for extra help (don't exactly quote me on that). And when the product team is discussing the irons, they typically say higher handicap in reference to the other clubs, while mentioning the handicap range. Players Distance. Good players seeking more distance/forgiveness for sure. You are correct in thinking it is not a GI iron with a ton of offset and we are on the same page with who should play this iron. Yes, I agree on the distance piece 100% and mentioned that. My father in fact finally got fitted and gained substantial distance moving from a more traditional loft set to the P790 and his handicap is similar to mine.

The person I was responding to was mentioning the Mizuno feel and that is why he is wanting to get rid of his 225s. The Mizuno feel is exclusively about their blades and small cavity forged irons. You are not going to get the coveted Mizuno feel from a hollow body iron or a GI club. It has to be a forged blade or a small cavity club. But yes, 225s could very well feel better than P790s. I too have not compared them against each other.

 

... No apologies necessary just a friendly disagreement of the original post.   Having played MP33's and written a WRX review for the MP59's several years ago I know what you mean. As a + index the Pro 223's would be my first choice if I were looking to replace my Cobra MIM irons but I love these irons so a set of Pro 225's would be my choice. At 68 I hit my 4 iron a comfortable 190-195 and if I could stretch that to 200-205 my gapping would be a little better so I have ordered a set of the '22 Forged Tecs and hope they beat out my MIM's or even just replace my long irons but I am open to whatever works.

... I am very much a feel player and appreciate a soft dense feel and am spoiled by the MIM's that look so good at address and feel as soft (or softer) then Mizuno's I have played but the feel is a little different and really unique. I can play a club that doesn't feel as dense and soft as I would like but I can't play a club that feels bad, so I am hoping the hollow headed FT's feel good enough if the performance is there.  

[MWGolf23]

9 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... No apologies necessary just a friendly disagreement of the original post.   Having played MP33's and written a WRX review for the MP59's several years ago I know what you mean. As a + index the Pro 223's would be my first choice if I were looking to replace my Cobra MIM irons but I love these irons so a set of Pro 225's would be my choice. At 68 I hit my 4 iron a comfortable 190-195 and if I could stretch that to 200-205 my gapping would be a little better so I have ordered a set of the '22 Forged Tecs and hope they beat out my MIM's or even just replace my long irons but I am open to whatever works.

... I am very much a feel player and appreciate a soft dense feel and am spoiled by the MIM's that look so good at address and feel as soft (or softer) then Mizuno's I have played but the feel is a little different and really unique. I can play a club that doesn't feel as dense and soft as I would like but I can't play a club that feels bad, so I am hoping the hollow headed FT's feel good enough if the performance is there.  

The 2° stronger difference in 225 (30°) 7 iron vs the 223 (32°) 7 iron got me 10 extra yards. 223's could still very well be in play for you if you still want a softer feel. You can easily bend them stronger and get very similar yardage to the 225's if you want.

I'm sure the FT's will treat you well! Hard to go wrong with anything in the market today. The OEM's have done well to keep up with each other across the board. Mostly comes down to looks and feel of each club with very marginal performance gains, if any.

[Golfspy_TCB]

11 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... No apologies necessary just a friendly disagreement of the original post.   Having played MP33's and written a WRX review for the MP59's several years ago I know what you mean. As a + index the Pro 223's would be my first choice if I were looking to replace my Cobra MIM irons but I love these irons so a set of Pro 225's would be my choice. At 68 I hit my 4 iron a comfortable 190-195 and if I could stretch that to 200-205 my gapping would be a little better so I have ordered a set of the '22 Forged Tecs and hope they beat out my MIM's or even just replace my long irons but I am open to whatever works.

... I am very much a feel player and appreciate a soft dense feel and am spoiled by the MIM's that look so good at address and feel as soft (or softer) then Mizuno's I have played but the feel is a little different and really unique. I can play a club that doesn't feel as dense and soft as I would like but I can't play a club that feels bad, so I am hoping the hollow headed FT's feel good enough if the performance is there.  

As usual Chisag, your post sparked my interest.  I may have even inquired about this before to you... My all time favorite sticks were the MP33's.  In fact, I have considered finding a near(est possible) mint set and just go with it.  But what I'm interested in your opinion about is MP33's vs. the MIM's (which you and I traded notes about last summer), and the Pro 223 and 221's if you have had a chance to swing them with intent.  I too prefer "feel" over forgiveness... but my "feel" is significantly less consistent than yours... I know... but I'm working on that part.  You may have already given your thoughts on this, and I just missed it... so feel free to point me to your previous post if you did

[chisag]

2 hours ago, Tiftaaft said:

As usual Chisag, your post sparked my interest.  I may have even inquired about this before to you... My all time favorite sticks were the MP33's.  In fact, I have considered finding a near(est possible) mint set and just go with it.  But what I'm interested in your opinion about is MP33's vs. the MIM's (which you and I traded notes about last summer), and the Pro 223 and 221's if you have had a chance to swing them with intent.  I too prefer "feel" over forgiveness... but my "feel" is significantly less consistent than yours... I know... but I'm working on that part.  You may have already given your thoughts on this, and I just missed it... so feel free to point me to your previous post if you did

 

... I would not say I prefer feel over forgiveness, like most serious players I want both. That said forgiveness is low on my list as I want/need some but not more than a typical Players Iron. Which brings me to the MIM irons that have the best combination of feel, looks at address, performance and forgiveness. Granted I was playing Maxfli HT-100 balata balls back then but Mp33's had that melt into the face kind of Mizuno feel I have not found in many others, although Z101's come to mind. MIM's have a different feel, still dense and soft ... just different and unique. To be honest first few rounds I was not a big fan of the feel but grew to love it. A little low or on the toe and they do not feel as sweet, so kinda like MB's you instantly know when you miss the center but mishits are much less penal. I am not a MB fan because I think a quality Players Iron provide all the performance benefits of a MB with just a little forgiveness that can make all the difference on slightly missed shots and more importantly help on poor swing days. Ymmv of course. 

... I have not hit the Mizuno Pro series yet so I can't comment on their feel yet. 

[Golfspy_TCB]

1 hour ago, chisag said:

I would not say I prefer feel over forgiveness,

Thanks Chisag,  I didn't mean to over generalize your comment (or make incorrect assumptions).  Of course we need some forgiveness... we aren't Iron Byron or Ping Man, or whatever PXG calls their swing machine.  That said... the "melt into the face" feeling I got from a well struck MP-33 is what made me an obsessed golfer for life... maybe I should be mad at Mizuno for showing me what that feels like, so now I am up in the middle of the night running calculations in my head on how I can recapture it.  My gamer irons are awesome irons... but they don't give me that feel... or sound... which I am ashamed to say is also more important to me than it should be.  So even when I happen to make a mistake and catch one pure... and the ball flies high and straight to the target, hits the green - one hops and stops...... there is still a bit of disappointment in the feel and sound... because... it wasn't that MP33 feedback. 

Anyway, great comments as always... thanks for sharing you thoughts with us... I, for one, learn something about golf, or myself, ... or both, every time I read one of your posts.  Tim.

[chisag]

1 hour ago, Tiftaaft said:

the "melt into the face" feeling I got from a well struck MP-33 is what made me an obsessed golfer for life... maybe I should be mad at Mizuno for showing me what that feels like, so now I am up in the middle of the night running calculations in my head on how I can recapture it. 

 

... Oh I get it. I have told this before but I was playing Hogan '99's and the feel was just too crisp for my tastes. So I traded them in for my MP33's and was much happier. I was at the range and a guy next to me was hitting new Hogan '99's and after we both hit a 4 iron to the same green I asked him how he liked his irons. He laughed and said he loved them and had just traded in his MP33's because they felt like "mush" and the Hogans had a much more satisfying crips feel. I told him that was just so ironic as I had just traded in my Hogans because they felt harsh and I loved the melt into the face MP33's. 

... It was very informative for me and I took "feel" into account on all future reviews with comments like "If you prefer a crisp feel you will love these..." 

[Golfspy_TCB]

6 minutes ago, chisag said:

... It was very informative for me and I took "feel" into account on all future reviews with comments like "If you prefer a crisp feel you will love these..." 

Totally agree.  "feel" is subjective to each person, and not only how we perceive it, but what we each like.  Your '99 Hogan story is a great example.  I swear those MP33's actually wrapped around the ball and threw it up into the air.  haha.  When I find a demo set of the 221's and 223's at my local shop, I am looking forward to seeing how they compare to my memory of those 33's.