My Quest to Break 90.

[Jonny_Crash]

1 hour ago, jkatz0318 said:

 As you're a self-described golf nerd, Jon Sherman's material is great for course management---look at his Practical Golf material and website.  And there's an excellent podcast series put together by Sherman and a very good swing guru, Adam Young---the name of the podcast is The Sweet Spot.  Good luck, keep at it, you have all the tools.

Thanks, I'll check this out for sure.  I love the practical golf website.  

[Ed S]

Loved reading this thread with your journey - I have no doubt you’d be able to reach your goal!

A lot of good advice here that should be very useful to you. I want to reiterate the importance of the short game. For example, I’d love to have your length with all the clubs - I’m nowhere near you, my GIR is underwhelming and yet I’m regularly in the 80’s because my putts per round is about 1.8 vs you 2.1, and again my short game is far from exceptional. But  this 0.3 difference is about 6 strokes per round. 
 

I also wanted to make another suggestion for tee or approach shots - instead of clubbing down (which is a good suggestion in its own right) have you tried to not swing out of your shoes on every shot but instead hit at about 85% of your max? It will allow you to take back club slower and make a downswing smoother which should translate into better execution. Cheers!

[Jonny_Crash]

Thanks  @Ed Sthose are some good thoughts.  I do need to put in some more short game time, it's costing me strokes for sure.  

Regarding the 85%, this seems to mess up my timing and things get disjointed.  That of course speaks to some issues with my swing, but it is probably something I should practice.  It reminds me of something I heard once.  The only shot that your are really trying to hit as far as possible is the tee shot.  The goal is to advance as far as safely possible.  Once that shot has happened the focus shifts to distance control. A smooth easy swing with a less loft is often better than going hard with more loft. No sense in muscling a PW when a 9 iron is available. 

[Jonny_Crash]

Went to the range at lunch today and hit a bunch of balls.  I shortened my backswing up a bunch, which helped with my timing.  I also played with standing a little more upright in the knees.  Finally, I worked on getting into the slot on the downswing. Overall it seemed to have a positive effect and I struck the ball really well. 

I played a round of virtual golf at Spanish Bay (the range has top tracer).  For those that aren't familiar, you play as usual but anything inside about 25 yards of the pin you get a shot at holing out.  This is done by taking a shot at one of the range targets (today's was a 62 yard).  Depending on how close your  were and your lie you are given a ring around your target (e.g within 5' is a birdie, 10' is a par and outside that is a bogey). 

I finished with an even par 72 from  6,700 yards.  My drives were a bit wayward (but you never lose a ball haha).  Approach shots were great and my 60 yard was on fire.  I had 5 birdies, 3 bogeys and one double.  It is obviously fake golf, but it was nice to hit the ball well.   

The highlight was the first two shots on hole 1.  Drive was about 320 first cut left, then I hit a 6I 200 with a baby draw to about 15 feet.  It was delightful. 

Anyway, encouraging day.  

[RickyBobby_PR]

5 hours ago, Jonny_Crash said:

Thanks  @Ed Sthose are some good thoughts.  I do need to put in some more short game time, it's costing me strokes for sure.  

Regarding the 85%, this seems to mess up my timing and things get disjointed.  That of course speaks to some issues with my swing, but it is probably something I should practice.  It reminds me of something I heard once.  The only shot that your are really trying to hit as far as possible is the tee shot.  The goal is to advance as far as safely possible.  Once that shot has happened the focus shifts to distance control. A smooth easy swing with a less loft is often better than going hard with more loft. No sense in muscling a PW when a 9 iron is available. 

That means you are out of sync in your swing. If you can’t hit good shots with a 3/4 length swing or at a slower pace you can’t do it at full speed. Ocassionally things will work right for a swing or two at full speed but as Monte Scheinblum says his and pretty much every pro  spends 85% of their time practicing swings at lead arm parallel. You rarely see an amateur at the range doing this. Athletic motion golf has timed the swing and from lead arm parallel the swing is 1/2 way done. From the top of the swing there about .25 seconds til impact. 
 

Anything you think about at the top of the swing doesn’t end up happening til after impact because of the short period of time from there til impact.

[Jonny_Crash]

I totally agree with you.  My timing has always been quick and I struggle to slow it down.  I worked on some clock drills with my wedges today.  I was able to get that in sync today and was hitting my targets really consistently (for me).  

 

[Jonny_Crash]

I got out and played 18 yesterday.  It's been unseasonably warm here in SLC, so I was in shorts all day... which just felt strange. 

I finished at 99, which was good score seeing as how I've not been playing much.  I had 2 pars and 1 bird.  6 bogeys and 9 doubles or worse (3 of those were triples).   I hit 3 fairways, but most of the misses were in the first cut (or couple of adjacent fairways).   I ended up with a lot of shots blocked by trees and or requiring a punch out, so that added up on the scorecard.  

Best hole was the 3rd.  It's a pretty straight forward 360 yard hole.  I ripped a driver about 290, nice 3/4 58* to about 8ft and rolled in a birdie.  On the 11th, I hit a towering 50* to about 8' but slid the birdie putt past the hole.  There were probably 3 or 4 putts I missed by a couple of inches, so the score could have been better.

Worst hole was the 10th,  I snap hooked a tee shot OB, reloaded and pushed it right into the junk.  I recovered, but had a couple miss hits and ended up with a triple.  The 14th also had a lost ball ob right this time.  

I hit 4 GIR and a couple nGIR.  I totaled 37 putts (3 three putts and 2 one putts).  

My three favorite shots of the day.  The tee ball on 11 (50* to 8ft).  My second on 13.  I missed my tee shot pin high right and it kicked down a hill.  I had a flat lie on some packed mud, but hit a perfect flop to about 2'.  I slid the putt by and took a bogey.  My second shot on the par 4 15th was a gem.  I teed off into the sun with my 3U.  I pushed it off the toe and had about 195 yds over a greenside bunker.  I roped a 6I and ended up with a 20' putt (3 putted).  It was perfectly executed with a little cut over the bunker to the green.  

The short game was overall decent.  One skulled shots, couple left short, but overall okay.  I need to work on getting it closer to the pin on chips and pitches.  It looks like I 2-putted after most of my chips/pitches so I'm not getting it quite close enough on those.  

I think I'm close, but still some things to work out.  

Edited November 30, 2021 by Jonny_Crash
typo

[BMart519]

21 hours ago, Jonny_Crash said:

I hit 4 GIR and a couple nGIR.  I totaled 37 putts (3 three putts and 2 one putts).  

The short game was overall decent.  One skulled shots, couple left short, but overall okay.  I need to work on getting it closer to the pin on chips and pitches.  It looks like I 2-putted after most of my chips/pitches so I'm not getting it quite close enough on those.  

2x 1 putts minus a bird after GIR means you got up an down roughly 1/14 times with 4 GIR, or 7%. Not decent  

Especially if you had putts or easy bump and runs with the nGIRs. Putting and chipping probably cost you 5-10 shots. 

[Jonny_Crash]

2 hours ago, BMart519 said:

2x 1 putts minus a bird after GIR means you got up an down roughly 1/14 times with 4 GIR, or 7%. Not decent  

Especially if you had putts or easy bump and runs with the nGIRs. Putting and chipping probably cost you 5-10 shots. 

 

When you say it this way.... it wasn't decent haha. 

However, some of my not GIR's are likely different than another (better players).  I had some where I just failed to get up and down (puts or bump and run), but several are shots from 100 yds plus to get onto the green and then a two putt.  Nevertheless, the point is well taken ... and I certainly don't get up and down very often. 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Jonny_Crash

[Jonny_Crash]

I played 18 on Saturday as it was unseasonably warm here in Utah.  It was a very up and down round.  A couple of brilliant holes and a couple of WTF holes.  Overall, I need to iron out my consistency.  I typically had at least one great shot per hole, but that was bookended by some total garbage.  

Hole 18 pretty much sums it up.  It's a big downhill 450 yard par 4.  There is a creek at about 300 yards so driver is out of the question for me (given the slope).  I teed off with my 3U and just crushed it. 

 

 

I got to my ball with about 150 to the middle of the green and promptly duffed into the creek.  Recovery shot was pushed right.  I had a nice pitch on and a 2 putt.   I just need to spend some time drilling the pattern that works (which I know) and build that muscle memory.  Right now my bad shots are just way too bad.  

Fun game though, such a good challenge! 

[Micah T]

18 at bonneville is a good hole: I played Sunday and got there just as the sun set: temp dropped 15 degrees instantly! The 2nd shot on this hole can be so tough depending on where your tee shot ends up: you could have a blind, ball below your feet, downhill lie for your 2nd… 

 

[MNUte]

21 hours ago, Jonny_Crash said:

I played 18 on Saturday as it was unseasonably warm here in Utah.  It was a very up and down round.  A couple of brilliant holes and a couple of WTF holes.  Overall, I need to iron out my consistency.  I typically had at least one great shot per hole, but that was bookended by some total garbage.  

Hole 18 pretty much sums it up.  It's a big downhill 450 yard par 4.  There is a creek at about 300 yards so driver is out of the question for me (given the slope).  I teed off with my 3U and just crushed it. 

 

 

I got to my ball with about 150 to the middle of the green and promptly duffed into the creek.  Recovery shot was pushed right.  I had a nice pitch on and a 2 putt.   I just need to spend some time drilling the pattern that works (which I know) and build that muscle memory.  Right now my bad shots are just way too bad.  

Fun game though, such a good challenge! 

Have you thought about playing the Par 3 courses at Mulligans, Fore Lakes or Mick Riley? Those are some of the places where I work on my 150 yard and in game. Since not many people play Par 3 courses, you can take some time to practice multiple shots with multiple balls. And they're fairly cheap options to get you practicing in an actual playing environment. 

[MmmmmmBuddy]

I'm a little late to the thread.  

Keep at it.  Getting better at this game takes time and effort.  Given your athletic ability, and the yardage that you hit it, breaking into the low 80's consistently is a very achievable goal.

I play a lot of events with guys that look like they are shooting a million, but when we add it up at the end of the day, they come in with 68-73.  The secret is short game, short game, short game.  It will save your bad holes, and make your good holes great.  

Watch James Sieckmann here or read his book.  It will change your life.  

 

Best of luck in the coming year.  Keep at it and you will get there! 

[Jonny_Crash]

2 hours ago, MNUte said:

Have you thought about playing the Par 3 courses at Mulligans, Fore Lakes or Mick Riley? Those are some of the places where I work on my 150 yard and in game. Since not many people play Par 3 courses, you can take some time to practice multiple shots with multiple balls. And they're fairly cheap options to get you practicing in an actual playing environment. 

This is a great idea, I need to get out and hit a bunch of approach shots. 

[Jonny_Crash]

33 minutes ago, MmmmmmBuddy said:

I'm a little late to the thread.  

Keep at it.  Getting better at this game takes time and effort.  Given your athletic ability, and the yardage that you hit it, breaking into the low 80's consistently is a very achievable goal.

I play a lot of events with guys that look like they are shooting a million, but when we add it up at the end of the day, they come in with 68-73.  The secret is short game, short game, short game.  It will save your bad holes, and make your good holes great.  

Watch James Sieckmann here or read his book.  It will change your life.  

 

Best of luck in the coming year.  Keep at it and you will get there! 

Thanks for the encouragement and the advice.  I'll check out those books for sure.  I really do need to put some more time into my short game, it's costing me a lot of strokes. 

[Jonny_Crash]

20 hours ago, Micah T said:

18 at bonneville is a good hole: I played Sunday and got there just as the sun set: temp dropped 15 degrees instantly! The 2nd shot on this hole can be so tough depending on where your tee shot ends up: you could have a blind, ball below your feet, downhill lie for your 2nd… 

 

 

It was so frustrating because I hit dead center to the flat lie... then just chunked it right into the creek.. that's golf haha.  

Hope you shot well!  It was a lovely weekend out there! 

[aaronsteph11]

This sounds very similar to my golf journey. 
 

Started playing Aug. 2020. Bought a starter set for cheap after playing a scramble for work. Replaced almost everything with some used clubs between Dec. 2020 and April 2021. I usually shoot mid to low 90s while breaking 90 3 times this fall. I have the RAC OS 2005 irons as well and I am looking at the Sub 70 699/699 pros. Was it hard adjusting to less offset on the 699 pros vs the Rac OS? I am hoping to get new irons after the holidays but am unsure to get 699 or the pros. Thanks and good luck with your journey! 

[Jonny_Crash]

1 hour ago, aaronsteph11 said:

I have the RAC OS 2005 irons as well and I am looking at the Sub 70 699/699 pros. Was it hard adjusting to less offset on the 699 pros vs the Rac OS? I am hoping to get new irons after the holidays but am unsure to get 699 or the pros. Thanks and good luck with your journey! 

Very similar indeed!  

You know, I didn't have much problem adjusting to the less offset.  It didn't seem to make much difference to me at all.  I did the Sub 70 demo program and it was great.  Once I hit the 699 Pro's I knew it would work.  I like that they are somewhat aspirational clubs and should work as I improve my ball striking.  I highly recommend trying them out!  

Good luck to you as well! 

[MNUte]

7 hours ago, Jonny_Crash said:

This is a great idea, I need to get out and hit a bunch of approach shots. 

Enjoy! Being from Minnesota originally, I'm not as turned off by cold weather as others. And Mulligans will let you play through the winter as long as there's not snow on the ground, so it's a great way to try stuff out throughout the winter.

[Jonny_Crash]

15 hours ago, MNUte said:

Enjoy! Being from Minnesota originally, I'm not as turned off by cold weather as others. And Mulligans will let you play through the winter as long as there's not snow on the ground, so it's a great way to try stuff out throughout the winter.

Yeah, as long as there isn't snow I'll get out there and duff around (unless I'm skiing).  Good to know about mulligans. I do appreciate the thoughts on this, it really is helpful!  

[Jonny_Crash]

Figured it was time for an update.  I've had a bunch of range time over the past month or so.  I stumbled across Porzak Golf on youtube and his process really seemed to resonate.  I'm trying to implement what I hear from them and think it is going pretty well.  I've shortened and smoothed out my swing.  I'm making much more consistent contact (still a slight push or hook depending on my club face control).  I have lost a bit of distance in this process, but the gains in consistency seem to more than outweigh that fact.  

My take away is still way too far inside, but I feel like I'm in a good place at the top of my backswing and in the downswing.  I'll try to post a video in the coming days of a couple of DTL swings.  

Golf is such a puzzle

[RickyBobby_PR]

3 hours ago, Jonny_Crash said:

Figured it was time for an update.  I've had a bunch of range time over the past month or so.  I stumbled across Porzak Golf on youtube and his process really seemed to resonate.  I'm trying to implement what I hear from them and think it is going pretty well.  I've shortened and smoothed out my swing.  I'm making much more consistent contact (still a slight push or hook depending on my club face control).  I have lost a bit of distance in this process, but the gains in consistency seem to more than outweigh that fact.  

My take away is still way too far inside, but I feel like I'm in a good place at the top of my backswing and in the downswing.  I'll try to post a video in the coming days of a couple of DTL swings.  

Golf is such a puzzle

Porzak has some good content and simple swing thoughts. If you have watched the ones with Hannah yet I would suggest checking those out.

[RollingGreens]

I know your focused more on swing thoughts currently but I read some of your earlier content and was wondering if you have put any thoughts into course management. It seems that you can hit the ball longer than most but have some some control issues from time to time like most of us. You have or had some issues with playing roughly inside of 100 yards. Have you thought about playing to yardages that are advantageous to you to hit into greens? Using clubs that you are the most comfortable with and building everything else up in the meanwhile 

[Jonny_Crash]

On 1/28/2022 at 5:54 PM, RollingGreens said:

I know your focused more on swing thoughts currently but I read some of your earlier content and was wondering if you have put any thoughts into course management. It seems that you can hit the ball longer than most but have some some control issues from time to time like most of us. You have or had some issues with playing roughly inside of 100 yards. Have you thought about playing to yardages that are advantageous to you to hit into greens? Using clubs that you are the most comfortable with and building everything else up in the meanwhile 

 

This is very much something that I need to work on.  This winter I'm working on the swing, but I plan to implement some better damage limitation/course management this upcoming season.  

[RollingGreens]

2 hours ago, Jonny_Crash said:

 

This is very much something that I need to work on.  This winter I'm working on the swing, but I plan to implement some better damage limitation/course management this upcoming season.  

It takes a lot of variables to come together to score well. Making it as easy as you can so you can on yourself is important. MaKes the harder shots or holes just that much easier for us to succeed. 

[Jonny_Crash]

37 minutes ago, RollingGreens said:

It takes a lot of variables to come together to score well. Making it as easy as you can so you can on yourself is important. MaKes the harder shots or holes just that much easier for us to succeed. 

I totally agree, in the past I made so many stupid errors... cost a lot of strokes.  I'm starting to be a bit more repeatable with my swing, so that will only help the on course decision making.  I'm very excited for the upcoming season

[Jonny_Crash]

Been spending a lot of time bashing balls at the range.  My practice routine isn't great, but I am starting to hit the ball a bit better.  Still struggle with an open club face on my driver, but the rest is starting to gel.  

One thing I have noticed is that when I swing easy, I hit the ball really well.  However, as I swing I tend to get more and more tense and try to muscle the ball.  When this happens I lose the clubface and will start getting steep and chunky.  It's something I'm becoming more aware of, so that helps.  It's also something I know from actual swings.  I hit the ball better when I swing easy.  That being said, I find the urge to muscle the ball creeping back in.  

Anyone have any tips or swing thoughts for swinging easy?  I took a lesson a long while back and the pro told me there were two ways to play golf, with effortless power or with powerless effort.  This is my current go to swing thought.  

 

[cnosil]

Just now, Jonny_Crash said:

Been spending a lot of time bashing balls at the range.  My practice routine isn't great, but I am starting to hit the ball a bit better.  Still struggle with an open club face on my driver, but the rest is starting to gel.  

One thing I have noticed is that when I swing easy, I hit the ball really well.  However, as I swing I tend to get more and more tense and try to muscle the ball.  When this happens I lose the clubface and will start getting steep and chunky.  It's something I'm becoming more aware of, so that helps.  It's also something I know from actual swings.  I hit the ball better when I swing easy.  That being said, I find the urge to muscle the ball creeping back in.  

Anyone have any tips or swing thoughts for swinging easy?  I took a lesson a long while back and the pro told me there were two ways to play golf, with effortless power or with powerless effort.  This is my current go to swing thought.  

 

When I start doing that I just think make a 3/4 swing. 

[russtopherb]

8 minutes ago, Jonny_Crash said:

Been spending a lot of time bashing balls at the range.  My practice routine isn't great, but I am starting to hit the ball a bit better.  Still struggle with an open club face on my driver, but the rest is starting to gel.  

My suggestion is to have a defined practice routine, which may result in you swinging easier because you won't feel like you're just trying to bash the ball as far as you can.

I hit balls in chunks of 5, to remind myself to take a step back every now and again to really think about what I'm doing, or trying to do. Unless there's something very specific with my swing I'm working on, I vary up the clubs I'm using too and I ALWAYS have a target in mind, even with the driver. I also will play a simulated round with at least half a bucket, which again helps me think about targets and what club is the best to get the ball there. Constantly switching up clubs doing that helps me stay loose, just like I try to be on the course.

[MmmmmmBuddy]

41 minutes ago, Jonny_Crash said:

Been spending a lot of time bashing balls at the range.  My practice routine isn't great, but I am starting to hit the ball a bit better.  Still struggle with an open club face on my driver, but the rest is starting to gel.  

One thing I have noticed is that when I swing easy, I hit the ball really well.  However, as I swing I tend to get more and more tense and try to muscle the ball.  When this happens I lose the clubface and will start getting steep and chunky.  It's something I'm becoming more aware of, so that helps.  It's also something I know from actual swings.  I hit the ball better when I swing easy.  That being said, I find the urge to muscle the ball creeping back in.  

Anyone have any tips or swing thoughts for swinging easy?  I took a lesson a long while back and the pro told me there were two ways to play golf, with effortless power or with powerless effort.  This is my current go to swing thought.  

 

Here is my .02...

If your normal 150 club is 9i, try to hit some full swing shots 150y with a 7 or 6 iron.  Try taking 2-4 more club and hit them a specific yardage with full swings.  Try it on the range and then take it too the course.

 

Good Luck!