My Quest to Break 90.

[Jonny_Crash 247]

Thanks for all the feedback and advice everyone.  Since I'm a bit of a nerd, I'm going to start breaking posts down into a couple of categories.  I see a couple of things that need work and attention: 1) full swing; 2) around the greens; and 3) course management (i.e. damage limitation).

1: Full swing.  I need to get this more reliable and consistent.  Right now I'm never sure if I'm going to hit straight, right or snap a hook.  My miss is typically (80%) a push/push-slice.  This is valuable in calculating aim-points and shot dispersion.  Narrowing this down will be immense in keeping the big scores down.  

2: Putting and chipping is a stronger part of my game usually, but I need to continue to refine this. 

3: Course management is huge for me.  I need to keep the ball in play and better decisions about what I'm hitting and why.  I've read a lot about strokes gained and such (DECADE), but have never put any of this into practice.  Need to look into this a bit more and see if I can find a good fit.

Thanks for following along.

[Jonny_Crash 247]

Some stats on my game. I typically just play rounds of 9 before or after work, so most of these stats are from those rounds.  I have the free version of 18 birdies, so it keeps some rudimentary stats over the last 18 -21 rounds.  

Per 9 holes:

• 4.5 holes with a double or worse,
• 2.8 bogey,
• 1.6 pars,
• 0.1 birdies

Par averages: 

• Par 3: 4.3 shots
• Par 4: 5.7 shots
• Par 5: 7.3 shots

Putts Per Hole Avg:  2.2 (low of 1.8 and high of 2.6) 

• GIR %: 23.6%

Driving Distribution: Note some are short tops or duffs and are counted as straight, I need a way to break these out: 

• 14.7% left 
• 40% fairways hit
• 45.4% right 

Up and Down:

• 0.7 per round

Penalties:

• 2.1/round 
• 7 of 21 rounds with no penalties
• 9 of 21 with 4 or more penalties
• 5 of 21 with 1-2 penalties

 

[cnosil 24,351]

15 minutes ago, Jonny_Crash said:

 

Per 9 holes:

• 4.5 holes with a double or worse,

Driving Distribution: Note some are short tops or duffs and are counted as straight, I need a way to break these out: 

• 14.7% left 
• 40% fairways hit
• 45.4% right 

Penalties:

• 2.1/round 
• 7 of 21 rounds with no penalties
• 9 of 21 with 4 or more penalties
• 5 of 21 with 1-2 penalties

 

So let’s focus on these.   Penalties…what are they coming from and how can we stop them. I assume the double or worse is largely die to penalty strokes.  
 

based on your driving I am assuming you have a left to right ball flight.  How many times in those 9 holes are you unable to make a reasonable approach to the green?  When you are teeing off, where do you setup on the tee box?  If 85% of your shots are fairway or right side,  setup on right side if tee box, set a target on the left side if the fairway, and accept that the ball will work its way back. 

[Jonny_Crash 247]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

So let’s focus on these.   Penalties…what are they coming from and how can we stop them. I assume the double or worse is largely die to penalty strokes.  
 

based on your driving I am assuming you have a left to right ball flight.  How many times in those 9 holes are you unable to make a reasonable approach to the green?  When you are teeing off, where do you setup on the tee box?  If 85% of your shots are fairway or right side,  setup on right side if tee box, set a target on the left side if the fairway, and accept that the ball will work its way back. 

Most penalties are tee shots (plus the occasional long iron).  I'd say that on a open course, I'm usually able to get a good look at the green So maybe 1 or 2 of 7 don't give me a shot at a GIR.   On a narrow or tight course that number goes up quickly. 

 

I usually set up in the middle and aim middle, so that is an area to adjust for sure.  

[cnosil 24,351]

17 minutes ago, Jonny_Crash said:

Most penalties are tee shots (plus the occasional long iron).  I'd say that on a open course, I'm usually able to get a good look at the green So maybe 1 or 2 of 7 don't give me a shot at a GIR.   On a narrow or tight course that number goes up quickly. 

 

I usually set up in the middle and aim middle, so that is an area to adjust for sure.  

Why are you taking penalties on tee shots?   Lost balls, OB, penalty areas?   What are you doing to fix that?   Normal 

Normal strategy is to hit the ball as far as possible off the tee, but if you are taking lots of penalties,  you need to move back to a club that doesn’t result in adding penalty strokes and work on hitting driver better.   

[RickyBobby_PR 9,241]

48 minutes ago, Jonny_Crash said:

I usually set up in the middle and aim middle, so that is an area to adjust for sure.  

You are taking away 1/2 the fairway to land in and bringing in the chance for the offline shots to be unplayable.  Aim down the side of the fairway your ball starts on and let it come back into the fairway or at least to the other side. 

[Jonny_Crash 247]

2 hours ago, cnosil said:

Why are you taking penalties on tee shots?   Lost balls, OB, penalty areas?   What are you doing to fix that?   Normal 

Normal strategy is to hit the ball as far as possible off the tee, but if you are taking lots of penalties,  you need to move back to a club that doesn’t result in adding penalty strokes and work on hitting driver better.   

Lost balls and OB are the key issues off the tee.  I should probably bench the DR and 3W until I get the swing a little more dialed and can keep it in play.  

 

 

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

You are taking away 1/2 the fairway to land in and bringing in the chance for the offline shots to be unplayable.  Aim down the side of the fairway your ball starts on and let it come back into the fairway or at least to the other side. 

This makes sense.... I just need to trust in my miss. 

[Riverboat 776]

2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

You are taking away 1/2 the fairway to land in and bringing in the chance for the offline shots to be unplayable.  Aim down the side of the fairway your ball starts on and let it come back into the fairway or at least to the other side. 

This is exactly correct. Don't put away the driver. From the numbers you provided, I would say that if you would aim at the left edge of the fairway AND actually try to hit it there your fairway number will jump to 60-70%. The key is you actually have to hit it at that edge of the fairway. Your natural tendency will be to aim there,  but then try to steer it back to the center. This will only exacerbate the left to right shape and make things even worse. 

The only exception would be if there is OB left and normal rough right. Then go back to aiming up the middle. 

[cnosil 24,351]

58 minutes ago, Jonny_Crash said:

Lost balls and OB are the key issues off the tee.  I should probably bench the DR and 3W until I get the swing a little more dialed and can keep it in play.  

There are lots of ways to play this game.  There are strategies that you can take to break 90; basically if you score a 5 on every hole you have shot a 90.  Pick a club that you can confidently hit well and straight and keep the ball in play.  Get the ball on the green in 3 or less and 2 putt.  All you have to do is beat a 5 once and you have an 89.    While effective,  people don't like to play this way because they believe it isn't how golf should be played.  

[MNUte 367]

2 hours ago, cnosil said:

There are lots of ways to play this game.  There are strategies that you can take to break 90; basically if you score a 5 on every hole you have shot a 90.  Pick a club that you can confidently hit well and straight and keep the ball in play.  Get the ball on the green in 3 or less and 2 putt.  All you have to do is beat a 5 once and you have an 89.    While effective,  people don't like to play this way because they believe it isn't how golf should be played.  

To build off of this, let's use your distances and Bonny from the blues as an example:

• DR: 275
• 3W: 240
• 3U: 230
• 5I: 204
• 6I: 193
• 7I: 180
•  8I: 168
• 9I: 156
• PW: 147
• GW: 125
• SW: 115
• LW: 105

Hole 1: 457 Yard par 5, straight but tight course. 

5 iron off the tee gives you ~ 250 into the green. 2nd shot PW gives you about 105 into the green, i.e. your lob wedge. If you can hit each of those three shots relatively straight, you have a wedge into the green and no major risk of OB. 

 

Hole 2: 361 yard par 4, again straight but tight. 

5 iron off the tee gives you ~155 into the green. I.e. your shot into the green is your 9 iron. 

 

Hole 3: 393 yard par 4, again straight. 

5 iron off the tee gives you 188 into the green. Hit your 7 iron and you're right up at the front of the green. Bump and run and at worse you're at bogey. 

 

Hole 4: 418 yard par 4, HCP 3 so give yourself an extra shot and treat it as a part 5. 

5 iron off the tee gives you 213 in. I.e. two lob wedge shots so that you're not pushing the upper end of your boundary and forcing it.  Again, taking the bogey. 

 

Hole 5: 518 yard par 5, HCP 1 so give yourself an extra shot and treat it as a par 6. 

5 iron off the tee gives you 313 in. I.e. two 9 iron shots, you still can make it GIR and you're not putting yourself in bad spots or trying to force your range.

 

Hole 6: 156 yard par 3. 

9 iron to the green.

 

Hole 7: 353 yard par 4. 

5 iron off the tee gives you 148 in. I.e. your PW. 

 

Hole 8: 355 yard par 4. 

5 iron off the tee gives you 150 in. I.e. your PW again. 

 

Hole 9: 160 yard par 3. 

9 iron up to the front of the green. 

 

So there you go. A plan for a straight but narrow front nine without driver or wood and in which you only need to be consistent with five clubs: 5 iron nine times (your tee club), 7 iron once, 9 iron six times, PW three times, LW three times. It won't all go according to plan like that, but it shows that even from the blues you don't necessarily need to use your driver to shoot below bogey golf if your iron and particularly your wedge game get dialed in. 

 

[Jonny_Crash 247]

17 hours ago, cnosil said:

There are lots of ways to play this game.  There are strategies that you can take to break 90; basically if you score a 5 on every hole you have shot a 90.  Pick a club that you can confidently hit well and straight and keep the ball in play.  Get the ball on the green in 3 or less and 2 putt.  All you have to do is beat a 5 once and you have an 89.    While effective,  people don't like to play this way because they believe it isn't how golf should be played.  

 

I sometimes fall pray to the driver, iron, putter concept of golf.  If the goal is to score well, not just to hit all of my clubs then a change in mentality is worth it.  Let's be honest though.... it's sometimes just fun to hit the driver (even when we know we shouldn't).  

[Jonny_Crash 247]

14 hours ago, MNUte said:

So there you go. A plan for a straight but narrow front nine without driver or wood and in which you only need to be consistent with five clubs: 5 iron nine times (your tee club), 7 iron once, 9 iron six times, PW three times, LW three times. It won't all go according to plan like that, but it shows that even from the blues you don't necessarily need to use your driver to shoot below bogey golf if your iron and particularly your wedge game get dialed in. 

 

 

Thanks for breaking it down like this!  Very illuminating

[cnosil 24,351]

Just now, Jonny_Crash said:

 

I sometimes fall pray to the driver, iron, putter concept of golf.  If the goal is to score well, not just to hit all of my clubs then a change in mentality is worth it.  Let's be honest though.... it's sometimes just fun to hit the driver (even when we know we shouldn't).  

Not disagreeing with you in any way.   That is why what I described is hard; people want to hit driver and don’t see just safely advancing the ball as proper golf;  mental aspect of golf is tough.  If you simply want to break 90 why not give it a try and see how you do. 

[Jonny_Crash 247]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

Not disagreeing with you in any way.   That is why what I described is hard; people want to hit driver and don’t see just safely advancing the ball as proper golf;  mental aspect of golf is tough.  If you simply want to break 90 why not give it a try and see how you do. 

 

Definitely will.  

[Jonny_Crash 247]

I'm headed to  Moab this weekend for what is usually a guys bike trip.  However, given my recovering Achilles, I'll be hitting the links.  I'm probably going to play Moab GC and Hideout (down in Monticello).  I'm going to keep the driver and 3W in the bag for at least one of these rounds and concentrate on keeping the ball in play and scoring.  They are both on the shorter side:

Moab: 6,180 from the blues (69.4/128)

Moab GC has a couple of longer par 4's in the 380-390 range.  But a good 5i off the tee should leave me anywhere from a 6i to 8i in.  So that should be feasible.  I'll probably play a couple of those as 5's.     In general it looks pretty wide open, so the chances of a lost ball seem slim.  Provided I keep it more or less in play I should have a decent chance of scoring.

 Hideout: 6,225 yards from the blues 69.7/126

This course looks a lot tighter with some more hazards, so it may lead to some higher scores if I spray a ball here or there.  It looks quite lovely an should be a good time. 

I'll map out a more distinct strategy in the coming days for both courses.  

[Jonny_Crash 247]

I played 18 twice this past weekend.  Once at Moab Golf and once Hideout in Monticello, Utah.  I ditched the driver for the weekend and took a 5i off the tee (with the occasional 3i).  I played Moab on Thursday.  I ran out of light so I didn't really score the back nine (plus my swing left me).  So for the front 9 I shot a 52. 

Stats:

• I hit 4 fairways 
• 2.1 putts/hole (19 total)
• 12 chip/pitch shots
• 1 penalty shot

My approach/short game was abysmal.  I missed all the greens in regulation.  I tripled both par 5's and doubled 3 of the Par 4's.  I left quite a few shots short and topped a couple approach shots.  I've been trying to re-route my swing so it isn't as OTT, so that led to some frustrating shots.  

Overall there were some positives.  Tee shots with the 5i all worked really well. I kept the ball in play and was in the 200-230 range more or less in the fairway.  So that was  good change.  It was a fun track and lovely weather (just a bit overcast).  

[Jonny_Crash 247]

On Friday I played Hideout in Monticello, Utah.  Link  It was a wonderful course and I was able to play by myself and work on my game.  Regrettably, I was stuck behind the slowest foursome of all time.  Every time I got to the tee behind them, they would race off down the fairway.  I should have been more assertive about playing through but alas.  However, it did give me time to take notes on each hole, so that was nice.  

I ended up playing terribly and shot a 117.  I was okay off the tee, but everything else was a bit of a disaster.  My swing was all out of sorts around the 13th hole and I more or less just gave up.  (took two 10's and then went bogey, double, double).   

Stats:

• I only hit 4 fairways, but a couple were just off the side (so that is fine for me)
• I hit 3 GIR
• 37 putts (2.1 per hole)
• 20 chip shots (so lots of dinking about with the short game)
• 7 penalties (mostly on the back nine)
• 2 sand shots (both out first time).  

My notes are as follows:

1. FW 250 yds, GIR, Bad first put left 10’ (5)
2. 5i right second cut, 7i, 54* bladed onto green, 2 putt (5)
3. miss short right. Chip on 2 putt (4)
4. topped tee ball short into junk. Re-teed right 2nd cut,  Left 4th short. 2 bad chips severely uphill, one good chip to 18”, one putt (8)
5. tee shot blocked by tree, 2nd punch out; 3rd bunker; 4th out, 5 chip, 6-7 putts (7)
6. lost tee shot, 3rd 250 3i, chunked 54. Chip on 2 putt. (7)
7. front right bunker with 9i, easy out and 2 putt (4) 
8. left off tee; punch to 150, 3rd short. 4th bladed over into hazard (pen), 2 pitches on, 3 putt (10)
9. 250 left off tee. 2 tough shots out of rough, pw long and R. Pitch on and 1 putt (7) 
10. OB left. Punch under tree, punch away from trees. Chip 2,  putt 2 (8)
11. 9i on. Ripped back 10’. Tough 3 putt (4)
12. Tee shot left. Kicked down hill to FW; chunked approach: pitch on. 2 putt (5)
13. Tee shot left kicked to fw. Topped ob for pen, Then went long ob for a pen, chip on and 2 putt (10)
14. 2 tee balls lost ob left. Couple chunks and misfits. Pitch on 2 putt (10)
15. Fw 200 uphill with 5i. Chunked one. On in 3, 2 putt bogey (5)
16.  One right OB. Reload 260 middle. GW to fringe, chip on 1 putt (6)
17. tee shot short, downhill pitch over a swale… into that. Pitch to backside, 3 putt (6) 
18. Topped tee shot. PW to 170. Hero shot over creek with 8i,  Pitch on, 2 putt (6)

All in all, very uneven round.  I did hit some great shots of the tee, which was nice. Generally kept it in play (aside from 13 and 14).  I hit a couple of 230 yd 5i's and one 250 yd 3U.  

About the 8th hole, my swing just started feeling so unnatural and awkward.  Approach shots in particular just felt awful.  This resulted in a lot of fat shots.  I realized I was swaying badly in my takeaway.  This got me so far behind the ball it was almost impossible to get a good strike.  So I left a ton of shots there.  The tee shots OB were also bad.  Couple from leaving the clubface open (due to the sway) and a couple from swinging all arms and yanking it left.  

 

 

 

[Jonny_Crash 247]

Ultimately it was a frustrating weekend of golf (albeit very fun and pretty). 

I make a lot of mistakes on the course, that cost me a lot of strokes.  The complete lack of a short game this weekend was a bit of a shocker.  My wedge game is usually one of my stronger areas of play.  I'll hit the practice area and try to tighten that up.  

I've been trying to keep my hands outside a bit more on my backswing and I've fallen into a big lateral sway.  Then I'm not getting back to square. On the weekend,  I missed 7 tee shots left and 5 right.  The approach shots were mostly pushes and generally missed right.  It's clearly just time for a lesson.  I need an objective eye on things.  It's hard to play golf when you don't know where the ball is going.   

 

[russtopherb 9,304]

13 minutes ago, Jonny_Crash said:

I've been trying to keep my hands outside a bit more on my backswing and I've fallen into a big lateral sway.  Then I'm not getting back to square. On the weekend,  I missed 7 tee shots left and 5 right.  The approach shots were mostly pushes and generally missed right.  It's clearly just time for a lesson.  I need an objective eye on things.  It's hard to play golf when you don't know where the ball is going.   

 

I know a lot of responses on the forum tend to trend towards "get a lesson" when it comes to swing issues, or "get fit" when it comes to equipment issues, but they're usually the best way to go. I'll never forget the range session that led me to getting a few lessons, which made a world of difference. Am I regularly in the 80's? Nope, not even close. But I'm regularly in low 90's approaching high 80's and I can diagnose what's going wrong more often than not. Sometimes a few simple tweaks under the eye of a pro can make a huge difference in your game. 

[Jonny_Crash 247]

18 minutes ago, russtopherb said:

I know a lot of responses on the forum tend to trend towards "get a lesson" when it comes to swing issues, or "get fit" when it comes to equipment issues, but they're usually the best way to go. I'll never forget the range session that led me to getting a few lessons, which made a world of difference. Am I regularly in the 80's? Nope, not even close. But I'm regularly in low 90's approaching high 80's and I can diagnose what's going wrong more often than not. Sometimes a few simple tweaks under the eye of a pro can make a huge difference in your game. 

 

Yeah, it just makes sense to get it sorted out by someone who knows what they are doing.