BostonSal Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 I've seen many posts where someone or other was quoted as saying that the average recreational player doesn't need such a lofted wedge. Having experimented with the sixty since it was first introduced and eventually adopting it as a regular inclusion, I would opine that it depends on the sixty. A low bounce sixty is for playing a somewhat skilled shot from forward in the stance. It's not a regular golf swing. It has an exaggerated follow through and requires actually learning a specialty shot. I play the shot despite not being near scratch level, but I've played it for a long enough time to not get nervous or quit on it. So maybe the low bounce sixty isn't for everybody. A higher bounce sixty is played more like a regular wedge shot. The ball is back in your stance. Your hands are well in front, effectively delofting the club. Once you get past the apprehension that you're swinging a little harder than you feel comfortable swinging for the length of the shot, it becomes just another club. That's my take on the sixty. If you don't play the sixty with bounce, it's mostly because it's not one of your 14 most needed clubs, not because it's particularly hard. If you don't play the low bounce sixty, it's just because you're not interested in learning that shot or don't need it enough to worry about it. Neither one is absolutely necessary to play with. Either one can be played with practice. CanadaMike, mackdaddy, Bob Pegram and 4 others 7 Quote Louisville Golf Persimmon___2, 4, 5, 7-woods; Epon AF-906___driving iron; Titleist T100 5, 6, 7, 8, 9-irons; Titleist T100S___48°; Edison 2.0___53º; Titleist SM-9 (T)___58º; Tad Moore Otto Hackbarth___putter; Titleist Pro V1x___ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middler Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 Or maybe because: you usually don't need that much loft, unless you play on a course with hazards everywhere around most greens starting online is just easier with a lower lofted club because it's a shorter swing, e.g. a 9i vs a 60º hitting thin with a 60º results in the worst outcome vs another loft (way long) with a fluffy lie, the danger of going under the ball and hitting off the top of the face results in the worst outcome vs any other loft (way short) - often compounded because most players use a 60º when short sided going over a bunker, water, etc. that you're now in, defeating the original purpose If you make your 60º your go to club for all chipping, and practice with it more than any other wedge, it could indeed be more versatile. That would lessen but not eliminate the mishit pitfalls. It is a harder club to get good at because of the high loft, no matter what bounce. Because I have room in my 14 club limit, I carry a 60º low bounce (and a 56º high bounce) and I have had some great results with it when short sided, but I've had enough mishits that I won't use it unless it's the only choice. I use it less than once a round, a true special purpose club for me. YMMV tony@CIC, RollingGreens, golfslut1225 and 4 others 6 1 Quote Titleist TSR2 11° HZRDUS Red CB 50 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize Titleist TSR2 16.5º HZRDUS Red 60 CB 6.0 & TSR2 21º HZRDUS Black 4G 70 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize Mizuno JPX923 HMP 4-GW, T22 54.12WS, T22 58.04DC w Lamkin ST+2 Hybrid Midsize Evnroll EV5.3 Maxfli Tour & ProV1 Ping Pioneer - MGI Zip Navigator AT Payntr X 002 LE, Ecco Biom C4, FJ DryJoys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRJyzr Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 Not all 60* wedges are the same. I've carried a 60 on and off over the years, and found the sole and bounce are key for me. I do a little less well with the Tom Watson Scoring System 60*, it doesn't have a lot of bounce. The Maltby Design 60* I got from GolfWorks is much better. It has a low bounce angle, but a wider sole, which increases the effective bounce. I've found it works well in chipping and the like. That said, I've found I can generally get away with even a moderately high bounce 56* with no higher lofts in my bag. I'm able to open the club to do what I wish to for shorter shots, and use a form of the Pelz clock theory for short to mid range pitches. I expect my results may not apply to all. Kenny B, tony@CIC, Joefreddy and 2 others 5 Quote Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 11*, Aldila NV75 X, 43.5" -or- SpeedZone, HZRDUS Black 75 6.5, 43.5" 3w: Cobra King LTD, RIP Beta 90, 42" -or- Stage 2 Tour, NV105 X, 42.5" 2h or 3h: TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S -or- RIP Alpha 105 S Irons: 3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft in progress, slowly); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 2-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R GW: Dynacraft Dual Milled CNC 52*, Steelfiber 125 S; Scratch 8620 DS 53*, Steelfiber 125 S SW: Ram TG-898 56*, DGX ss2x; Ram Tom Watson 55*, DGX ss2x; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS; PM Grind 19 58*, stock shaft Putter: Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34"; Ping Scottsdale TR Craz-E, 35"; Cleveland Huntington Beach 1, 35" Ball: Wilson Staff Duo Professional, Bridgestone Tour B-RXS, Callaway Chrome Soft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 13 minutes ago, NRJyzr said: Not all 60* wedges are the same. I've carried a 60 on and off over the years, and found the sole and bounce are key for me. I do a little less well with the Tom Watson Scoring System 60*, it doesn't have a lot of bounce. The Maltby Design 60* I got from GolfWorks is much better. It has a low bounce angle, but a wider sole, which increases the effective bounce. I've found it works well in chipping and the like. That said, I've found I can generally get away with even a moderately high bounce 56* with no higher lofts in my bag. I'm able to open the club to do what I wish to for shorter shots, and use a form of the Pelz clock theory for short to mid range pitches. I expect my results may not apply to all. Agree. The 58/60 was a wedge I struggled with for a long time when I first started out and even up until maybe 5-6 years ago. I used it for full swings which was part of the problem. Second when I had lack of short game knowledge it was one that could easily be bladed or chunked when trying to chip and pitch with it. Once I learned to stop full swinging it and how to use the bounce on shorter shots my results started to improve. Even more so when I stopped the ball back, hands forward method. Once a person learns how to use the bounce of wedges it’s a game changer Golf Dawg, NRJyzr, tony@CIC and 1 other 4 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prillac Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 I keep it in my bag for sand. Vokey wedge. Also good for hacking out of tall grass or a blade edge strike out of the rough around the green. tony@CIC 1 Quote @prilltx Golf is challenging, R U doing the work...or hoping 4 different outcomes? Titleist C16 irons Vokey 55°, 60° wedges Cleveland 50°, 46° wedges Ping Sigma2 41 inch putter Titleist D2 driver, 904 / 908 3 and 5 wood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoverRick Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 I carry a 50, 54, 60. It’s no more difficult to hit well than a driver. You have to learn the proper technique and practice, just like any club. Tyler86, Kenny B, korsmot and 2 others 3 2 Quote G430LST 10.5° on T P T POWER 18 Hi Driver G430MAX 3w on T P T POWER 18 Hi Fairway G425 3H on T P T POWER 18 Hi Hybrid P790 Black 4-A on TGI 80S ES21 54-8° & 58-12° on Hi Rev DF2.1 on White ProV1 Precision Pro NX7 Pro All Iron grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated Mid Driver, 3w, 3H are JumboMax JMX UltraLite XS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny B Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 On 10/4/2021 at 8:08 AM, NRJyzr said: Not all 60* wedges are the same. I've carried a 60 on and off over the years, and found the sole and bounce are key for me. I do a little less well with the Tom Watson Scoring System 60*, it doesn't have a lot of bounce. The Maltby Design 60* I got from GolfWorks is much better. It has a low bounce angle, but a wider sole, which increases the effective bounce. I've found it works well in chipping and the like. That said, I've found I can generally get away with even a moderately high bounce 56* with no higher lofts in my bag. I'm able to open the club to do what I wish to for shorter shots, and use a form of the Pelz clock theory for short to mid range pitches. I expect my results may not apply to all. Agree that not all 60º wedges are the same. I struggled in the past, but the sole grind makes all the difference for me. My goto club around the green is my 60º Callaway PM Grind designed by Roger Cleveland for Phil Mickelson. It has a C-grind sole that allows me to hit the 12º bounce club off tight lies. Like any club, it takes practice to hit it consistently. When I head to the range to practice, I always hit pitch shot to the pitching green and hit chip shots off the fringe onto the putting green. So, my answer is No... if you have the right 60º for the job and practice any shot you would use it for on the course. If you don't practice, of course it's hard... but so is the driver! NRJyzr, tony@CIC, BIG STU and 1 other 4 Quote “We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndySP Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 I’m not sure the reasoning you give for carrying a 60 jives with your contrary take on the advice that people give against carrying one. You said that you need to play a 60 differently from other clubs. Sometimes forward, or sometimes back, forward presses, delofted, exaggerated follow throughs, etc.… I don’t know, it just doesn’t seem like the kind of thing the average player needs to learn when a 56 or even a PW and 8 iron and a basic balanced setup would do just as well for 99% of shots around the greens the average golfer plays on. Also it’s rare to find any 60 degree wedges anymore with less than 8 degrees of bounce anyway. They are mostly stock at higher bounces nowadays. I think the advise is pretty good honestly. To be fair, I now stop at 57 as of last year. I haven’t yet encountered any shots I thought I more loft would have made a better result. tony@CIC, Agent 87 and Bears1 2 1 Quote g430 lst TS2 20* hybrid, New Level PF-2: P-7; 902: 6-5 hi-toe 51* and 57* M Craft IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray06 Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 I play a 58, but even then, rarely use it. Mainly for greenside bunkers, high lofted lob shots (probably 1 every 2 rounds) and that’s about it. Use the 54 for most other things. Saying that, I wouldn’t take it out in place of anything. tony@CIC, silver & black and Bears1 3 Quote Driver: Titleist TSi2 10 / Mitsubishi Tensei AV Blue Raw 65 S 3 Wood: Titleist TSi3 15 / Project X RDX Smoke Black 70 6.0 Hybrid: Titleist TSi3 18 / Fujikura Atmos HB Tour Spec Red 7 S 4 Iron: Titleist U500 / Graphite Design Tour AD DI 85 S 5 - 9 Irons: Mizuno 921 Tour / Nippon Modus 3 120 S Wedges: Titleist Vokey SM7 46F, 50F, 54S & 58M / Nippon Modus Wedge 115 Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport Select (2016) / BGT Stability Tour Ball: Srixon Z Star XV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IONEPUTT Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 If you think hitting a 69* wedge is hard, wait until you try a 64*. I have both. I'm rather good with the 60*, but the 64* for some reason takes about twice as much work to get the hang of it. Same make and model, just much harder to use the 64*. Quote All my clubs are custom built with aftermarket shafts that have been spine and FLO aligned for max performance every swing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BostonSal Posted October 15, 2021 Author Share Posted October 15, 2021 7 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said: If you think hitting a 60* wedge is hard, wait until you try a 64*. I have both. I'm rather good with the 60*, but the 64* for some reason takes about twice as much work to get the hang of it. Same make and model, just much harder to use the 64*. I'm at the moment gaming a 62 which has been in and out of my bag, depending on the other wedges being bagged. Hitting a hard full shot with it is dicey, that much I can verify. I've in fact stopped trying. Little greenside lobs seem to be similar to a 60°, though. Quote Louisville Golf Persimmon___2, 4, 5, 7-woods; Epon AF-906___driving iron; Titleist T100 5, 6, 7, 8, 9-irons; Titleist T100S___48°; Edison 2.0___53º; Titleist SM-9 (T)___58º; Tad Moore Otto Hackbarth___putter; Titleist Pro V1x___ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegolfgal Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 There was a time I could not hit a 60' to save my life. Now my 60' is a part of my 14. 1) It is amazing how easy it is to hit once you take lessons, 2) understand what the instructor is saying and 3) learn to execute those instructions. I feel 1,2 and 3 are the keys to playing golf well. Learning to play with siblings and friends is great but lessons with 5-6 hours of practice per lesson is such a key. korsmot and tony@CIC 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassbeamer Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 I have a 60/12 Callaway PM Grind in my bag. I use it in deeper sand traps and those tricky shots over a sand trap onto the green. The higher toe wedge took me a bit to get use to but I love the club. BIG STU and tony@CIC 2 Quote Bassbeamer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isthisyourhomeworklarry Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 Very interesting topic. I am a 12. I have 50, 56, 60 in my bag. I play public and private. So 56 is 14 bounce and 60 is 8 bounce. It has worked really well for me. However I find as I am getting better opening the face… the 60 is used less and less. What’s the strategy difference between those that carry a 52or54&58 vs 56&60? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorak Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 I had one once, a Vokey about 25 years ago and I liked it but now my gap in the bag has shifted to the top end due to my age. I am comfortable using my 56, 52, and 48 degree wedges. Quote Cobra F9 driver and 3 wood, Mitsubishi Tensei CK Blue regular flex 60 shafts in both. PXG 5 wood, Diamana S+ regular flex 60 shaft. Ben Hogan 4-PW irons, regular flex Recoil shafts, 70g. Ben Hogan Equalizer wedges, 48, 52, and 56 degrees, Recoil shafts. Scotty Cameron Futura 5S putter. Ping Pioneer bag. Garmin G80 range finder. Maxfli tour golf balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_R_A_D_Y Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 (edited) I’m an old fart and grew up 100 yrs before utility wedges … I was taught to open my sand wedge varying degrees or bump & run a choked down 8 iron. I bought a 60* 2 yrs ago and love it because it doesn’t release as much from 20 yds in … or just drop in a full 50 yd shot. The biggest issue I have is the impulse to have my hands in front of the ball which de-lofts the club. Keep in mind that I do not have enough head speed to stop short pitches, but I have developed a feel for gauging the small release I get. Does that make sense? I do believe the key is a bounce that fits your course’s firmness and your swing. I’ve tried 60s I can’t hit well. But maybe that’s just because I took the time to get comfortable with my Calloway PM grind … a club I’ve never seen anyone else using Edited October 16, 2021 by B_R_A_D_Y silver & black, BIG STU, tony@CIC and 1 other 4 Quote TSi3 #1-3-5 all with Tensi Blue S-flex 2019 Apex Pro black 3 & 4H Catalyst 70 or TSi3 #2-3 depending on how I’m playing. Tensi Blue 2019 Calloway Apex Pro black, 5-PW, Catalyst 100 - 6.0, Super Stroker Jumbo 2020 RadSpeed OL 4H, 5-GW … won’t get to actually use till warmer weather 2019 PM-grind, 56° & 60°, KBS steel, Green Cap Blue Spider EX Pro V1X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisag Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 On 10/2/2021 at 11:37 AM, Middler said: If you make your 60º your go to club for all chipping, and practice with it more than any other wedge, it could indeed be more versatile. That would lessen but not eliminate the mishit pitfalls. It is a harder club to get good at because of the high loft, no matter what bounce. ... When I first started playing I hit waaaaaaay too many bad shots with my 60* so I was deterred to make it my go to club around the green and used it for every shot. I figured once I became proficient using it, I would develop other shots like 8i bump and runs. After 2 years of constant use and even more practice I became very efficient using only my LW and never did go to other shots. Served me well for 35 years in the soft midwest conditions but moving to the hard fast desert courses in Phoenix with Bermuda grass, that philosophy came back to haunt me. Sticky Bermuda grain has grabbed the leading edge when hitting a millimeter behind the ball, which would be fine back in Chicago but actually stops the clubbed like ABS brakes. Grain also makes high lofted pitches either release down grain or grab into the grain, something a low running chip does not have to deal with. It has taken me a year but I am getting much better at a variety of shots around the green. So where you play can have as much effect as how you play when using a LW. ... My experience teaching and playing with higher index golfers is they don't have the trust or feel required to use a LW. Taking a longer swing and blading a LW over the green leaves scar tissue and the LW almost demands longer swings than most Am's are comfortable making. Obviously having the right bounce for the conditions you play or the shots you like to hit is very important, but the margin for error is so great for high and some mid index players and if they don't practice like they are on tour, a LW is probably best left out of the bag. And while taking longer swings with short shots, full shots are almost always better with 1/2 or 3/4 swings. I can hit the ball farther with a 3/4 swing than I can taking a LW to parallel. It is a unique club in that those using it well don't see any problem with a LW and those using it poorly curse it's very existence. ... I played with a low index senior golfer a few weeks ago that surprised me by using a "chipper" around the green. He was very good with it and again showed me why they make so many different clubs that can all do the same thing. Middler, Isthisyourhomeworklarry, mackdaddy and 5 others 8 Quote Driver: Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R Fairway: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R Hybrids: 430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r Irons: '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r Wedges: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r Putter: Sport-60 33" Ball: Maxfli Maxfli Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titleist87 Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 Carried a 60 for many years but never felt comfortable with the club. I could hit it but just did not like the outcome. Had the 52/56/60 combo but then went to 50/54/58 to better align with my PW loft. My 58 is my go to club 90 yard and in for most shots. Quote Fly Z+ UST Proforce V2 Black Golfsmith Jet Stream 3W UST Proforce V2 915 H3 Diamana Red 915 H4 Diamana Red Apex Edge Pro UST Recoil Dart Vokey SM6 50F/54S/58S Aerotech SteelFiber Huntington Beach 11S Pro V1 Bag Boy Chiller Bag Boy Quad XL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Tee Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 I've carried a 60 on and off. I have found my best results--sand, anything requiring finesse around the green, shorties from the secondary fringe when short sided can be accomplished better with a 58 degree with 10-12 degrees of bounce. Have left too many in the greenside sand with the 60 ! My best, favorite and current setup: Callaway Jaws 50/10, 54/10, 58/12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlygrisse Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 Not if you practice, and not if you get the right grind. That being said less loft is usually less risky, I prefer a 58*, with some bounce, with my technique, 60* is just overkill. I find it hard to get the ball to the hole, and I find 58* to be plenty of loft for almost all situations. In my mind commit to a lob wedge somewhere between 57 and 62*. make sure your gapping is good for your swing and that it's good from 50 yards in. Err on the side of less loft. BIG STU, korsmot and B_R_A_D_Y 3 Quote Ping G400 Ping G410 3,5,7 JPX 921 Hotmetal Vokey 54, 58M Odyssey #1 black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franc38 Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 (edited) I've played a 60 (or a 58) for most of my golfing career. I've heard time and again things like "amateurs shouldn't play that, it's too hard"... But then I remember, a few years ago, finding a video of Luke Donald (may be the absolute grand master of the 60, sorry Phil) explaining that different type of players, strokes and all could lead to different type of "easier to play short club". And he carried on to suggest that we should take a high lofted wedge (60, 58... ) a lower lofted wedge (48, 50, 52) a short iron (8i or 9i) and the putter, and try multiple situations around the green, go 4 or 5 balls with each of these 4 options and see what worked the best for us. To me, that was an eye opener, despite what my coach and loads of people were saying I had much better success with 2 clubs, the 58 or 60 and the putter. So now, I use "lobbers" or putters for everything within 30 yards of the pin, 58 or 52 between 30 and 90 yards, 52° outside of that. I can carry my 58 to about 110 yards but when I hit full swings with it I end up having too much dispersion both in depth and width, so I much prefer a "partial 52". That might ultimately be the reason why some say the lob wedges are "impossible" or "hard" to play for amateurs : full swing shots with them are difficult, minute variations in strike quality can change significantly the outcome and the margin for error is a bit thin. Then again, if I was playing longer 58 shots more often, I'd certainly control them better! Edited October 18, 2021 by Franc38 typo tony@CIC 1 Quote Aim small... pray to miss small My bag: Ping hoofer lite. My driver: Nike Vapor Pro. 4w: Inesis 500. Hybrid: Nike Vapor Flex. Irons (4-PW): Takomo 301 combo on KBS tour X. Wedges: Vokey SM7 52° and 58°. Putter: Cleveland Classic HB1. Balls: Inesis Tour900 yellow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IONEPUTT Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 Bottom line with any WEDGE, or any club for that matter is that you need to "Practice" with the club to learn how to make it work for you. Reading some of the posts here, it seems that a lot of you recommend a LW for shots inside 50 yards or so. That makes me wonder How Far do you hit you LW? For me, I hit my 60* wedge 90 yards with a full swing. IF I take me hands back to waist high, like with a 9 o'clock position, I hit my 60* 50 yards. If I go back to 10 O'clock I get 75 yards carry with it. What about you? Because I hit the ball 90 yards with my 60* wedge, I tend to use it for most of my shots under 90 yards and it. It's the club I practice with most, so it's the one I'm most comfortable using. What about you? tony@CIC and Haro 2 Quote All my clubs are custom built with aftermarket shafts that have been spine and FLO aligned for max performance every swing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IONEPUTT Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 14 minutes ago, Franc38 said: I've played a 60 (or a 58) for most of my golfing career. I've heard time and again things like "amateurs shouldn't play that, it's too hard"... But then I remember, a few years ago, finding a video of Luke Donald (may be the absolute grand master of the 60, sorry Phil) explaining that different type of players, strokes and all could lead to different type of "easier to play short club". And he carried on to suggest that we should take a high lofted wedge (60, 58... ) a lower lofted wedge (48, 50, 52) a short iron (8i or 9i) and the putter, and try multiple situations around the green, go 4 or 5 balls with each of these 4 options and see what worked the best for us. To me, that was an eye opener, despite what my coach and loads of people were saying I had much better success with 2 clubs, the 58 or 60 and the putter. So now, I use "lobbers" or putters for everything within 30 yards of the pin, 58 or 52 between 30 and 90 yards, 52° outside of that. I can carry my 58 to about 110 yards but when I hit full swings with it I end up having too much dispersion both in depth and width, so I much prefer a "partial 52". That might ultimately be the reason why some say the lob wedges are "impossible" or "hard" to play for amateurs : full swing shots with them are difficult, minute variations in strike quality can change significantly the outcome and the margin for error is a bit thin. Then again, if I was playing longer 58 shots more often, I'd certainly control them better! 15 minutes ago, Franc38 said: I've played a 60 (or a 58) for most of my golfing career. I've heard time and again things like "amateurs shouldn't play that, it's too hard"... But then I remember, a few years ago, finding a video of Luke Donald (may be the absolute grand master of the 60, sorry Phil) explaining that different type of players, strokes and all could lead to different type of "easier to play short club". And he carried on to suggest that we should take a high lofted wedge (60, 58... ) a lower lofted wedge (48, 50, 52) a short iron (8i or 9i) and the putter, and try multiple situations around the green, go 4 or 5 balls with each of these 4 options and see what worked the best for us. To me, that was an eye opener, despite what my coach and loads of people were saying I had much better success with 2 clubs, the 58 or 60 and the putter. So now, I use "lobbers" or putters for everything within 30 yards of the pin, 58 or 52 between 30 and 90 yards, 52° outside of that. I can carry my 58 to about 110 yards but when I hit full swings with it I end up having too much dispersion both in depth and width, so I much prefer a "partial 52". That might ultimately be the reason why some say the lob wedges are "impossible" or "hard" to play for amateurs : full swing shots with them are difficult, minute variations in strike quality can change significantly the outcome and the margin for error is a bit thin. Then again, if I was playing longer 58 shots more often, I'd certainly control them better! I totally understand what you are saying about what some coaches have to say about what to use. I remember a time I was playing a round with a local golf instructor, and I had about 25 yards to the flag and in deep rough. I pulled out my 60* wedge and set up to play a Flop shot, and the instructor told me to stop and play a regular Pitch shot instead, as it was a "Higher Percentage Shot". I told him "Not if it's what I practice the most". I went ahead and played my Flop shot with the face wide open and made a pretty big swing. Ball landed a few feet from the flag and left me with a simple "TAP IN" for birdie. That's when he told me it was pure LUCK and I could do it again. So I dropped another ball and did it again, only to have the ball end up inside 3 feet for another easy putt. That's when I told him a second time it's NOT a low percentage shot when it's the shot I practice the most. Needless to say, he didn't tell me what type of shot to play around the greens after that. NRJyzr, BIG STU and Franc38 3 Quote All my clubs are custom built with aftermarket shafts that have been spine and FLO aligned for max performance every swing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crimea_river Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 This discussion is meaningless because of QC. Odds are your wedge’s loft is within (-3; +3) of its stated loft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfnut0226 Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 On 10/2/2021 at 2:22 PM, BostonSal said: I've seen many posts where someone or other was quoted as saying that the average recreational player doesn't need such a lofted wedge. Having experimented with the sixty since it was first introduced and eventually adopting it as a regular inclusion, I would opine that it depends on the sixty. A low bounce sixty is for playing a somewhat skilled shot from forward in the stance. It's not a regular golf swing. It has an exaggerated follow through and requires actually learning a specialty shot. I play the shot despite not being near scratch level, but I've played it for a long enough time to not get nervous or quit on it. So maybe the low bounce sixty isn't for everybody. A higher bounce sixty is played more like a regular wedge shot. The ball is back in your stance. Your hands are well in front, effectively delofting the club. Once you get past the apprehension that you're swinging a little harder than you feel comfortable swinging for the length of the shot, it becomes just another club. That's my take on the sixty. If you don't play the sixty with bounce, it's mostly because it's not one of your 14 most needed clubs, not because it's particularly hard. If you don't play the low bounce sixty, it's just because you're not interested in learning that shot or don't need it enough to worry about it. Neither one is absolutely necessary to play with. Either one can be played with practice. comes down to how many wedges do you really need in a bag, learn different ways tohit a 56deg and you don't need the 60 deg, likewise for all the other wedges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korsmot Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 Some of it is just mental. If you got a 60 and a 56 with the same bounce and grind, they would hit the same. I have 60-56-52-48-PW in the bag. Why 5 wedges? Because I am interested in scoring and they keep jacking the PW lofts (so really 4 wedges and a 9I from the year 2000). I hit a 60 the same way I hit any of the wedges so I have more options in the scoring zone (inside 125 yards). There is no reason that you can't hit a full shot with the 60 the same way you would a 56 or a 52. What is the difference? It is really an issue with the 14 club limit. If there was no limit I would carry 20 clubs. Use the right tool for the right job. But there is a limit. So, how many times do you really hit a 3 iron round? How many times do you to exactly hit it 200 yards and land it within 10 feet? I know we all want to. Plus a 60 has a few more specialty shots (cut lob, short sided bunker, etc.) Those specialty shots do take technique and practice. Read Dave Pelz short game bible and it makes the case for more wedges. I have several pitches and chips and adding another club multiplies the options. I could go with 58-54-50 PW and save a club but again, do I really need the 3 iron or 2 hybrid plus 5 wood? My margin for error in those clubs that I can realistically expect is measured in yards not feet. With most short game shots, I am trying to get inside a makeable putting distance (10 feet). If I don't, my likelihood of saving a stroke is very low. (less than 10%), and that's the point. Saving that one stroke when you don't hit the green! I also agree about learning about bounce and having a few options in your wedges for different situations. SW (56) with 12 deg of bounce and 60 with 8-10. taking a good lesson about using the bounce as well. Don't be afraid of the 60, it is just a 56 with more loft. Micah T 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackdaddy Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 I had an aha moment about 15 years ago hitting a 60* wedge and it helped me breaking 80. 1) You have to hit the 60* about twice as hard as the distance looks like you would need to swing. 2) You have to turn through the shot with your hips and shoulders, even if it is just a small turn. When you don't turn your hips and shoulders the tendency is to swing all arms and decelerate. I find that the harder I swing the the more distance gets lost to height. I have seen a few people saying they don't want the hands forward in the stance. I hope that they are still soling the club flat which tilts the shaft forward, you still need to have the grip in the center of your stance but the club will be soled back in your stance. I see lots of people opening the face to about 80* because they want the head in the center of their stance it rarely works out for them. I was recently in Myrtle Beach where the Bermuda grass and it's long roots made hitting my 6* wedge crazy hard to hit. I tried it on the first day and it was a nightmare for 9 holes. At the turn I went to the car and got a 12* bounce lob wedge and after a few shots to adjust my feel I started to hit my normal excellent wedge shots. On tight woven Bermuda grass a higher bounce wedge with a wider sole is very helpful in preventing digging. miamistomp, NRJyzr and BIG STU 3 Quote Driver: Titleist TSR 3 10* Accura TZ6 M3 65g Fairways: Callaway Rogue 15* & 19* Matrix Ozik TP 6 HD stiff Hybrid: Titleist TSI 4 & 5 Hybrids Mitsubishi Tensi AV 65 HY X stiff Irons: KZG Forged III 6-P Accura iS7 (Refinished and regrooved) Wedges: Cleveland CBX 50*, Taylormade MG 3 Tiger grind 56 bent to 54/10 & Taylormade MG 4 Tiger grind 56 bent to 58/14 Putter: Positive Putter's Custom P2 (think Edel putter meets Heavy Putter) Ball: Callaway Chome Tour All clubs have Winn Dri-Tac Wraps oversized Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isthisyourhomeworklarry Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 23 hours ago, chisag said: Great insight! And I play Chicago 80% of the year. I have gotten confident enough on the range to hit my wedges in buckets…. But throw a drought and lie into the equation and your +3-4 pretty quick! Playing drought Chicago, Variation of Midwest parkland/links and AZ. I think I may go 54&58 to manage the variation. ... When I first started playing I hit waaaaaaay too many bad shots with my 60* so I was deterred to make it my go to club around the green and used it for every shot. I figured once I became proficient using it, I would develop other shots like 8i bump and runs. After 2 years of constant use and even more practice I became very efficient using only my LW and never did go to other shots. Served me well for 35 years in the soft midwest conditions but moving to the hard fast desert courses in Phoenix with Bermuda grass, that philosophy came back to haunt me. Sticky Bermuda grain has grabbed the leading edge when hitting a millimeter behind the ball, which would be fine back in Chicago but actually stops the clubbed like ABS brakes. Grain also makes high lofted pitches either release down grain or grab into the grain, something a low running chip does not have to deal with. It has taken me a year but I am getting much better at a variety of shots around the green. So where you play can have as much effect as how you play when using a LW. ... My experience teaching and playing with higher index golfers is they don't have the trust or feel required to use a LW. Taking a longer swing and blading a LW over the green leaves scar tissue and the LW almost demands longer swings than most Am's are comfortable making. Obviously having the right bounce for the conditions you play or the shots you like to hit is very important, but the margin for error is so great for high and some mid index players and if they don't practice like they are on tour, a LW is probably best left out of the bag. And while taking longer swings with short shots, full shots are almost always better with 1/2 or 3/4 swings. I can hit the ball farther with a 3/4 swing than I can taking a LW to parallel. It is a unique club in that those using it well don't see any problem with a LW and those using it poorly curse it's very existence. ... I played with a low index senior golfer a few weeks ago that surprised me by using a "chipper" around the green. He was very good with it and again showed me why they make so many different clubs that can all do the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiTerp50 Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 On 10/15/2021 at 3:00 PM, IONEPUTT said: If you think hitting a 69* wedge is hard, wait until you try a 64*. I have both. I'm rather good with the 60*, but the 64* for some reason takes about twice as much work to get the hang of it. Same make and model, just much harder to use the 64*. 8 hours ago, dlygrisse said: Not if you practice, and not if you get the right grind. That being said less loft is usually less risky, I prefer a 58*, with some bounce, with my technique, 60* is just overkill. I find it hard to get the ball to the hole, and I find 58* to be plenty of loft for almost all situations. In my mind commit to a lob wedge somewhere between 57 and 62*. make sure your gapping is good for your swing and that it's good from 50 yards in. Err on the side of less loft. Agree with this summary - it is a different technique than a gap wedge. Without skill, blading and riding too high on the face will make for alarming results as an infrequently used club. The reputation is earned but a skilled golfer can use it effectively. Quote Titleist TSR 11 degree, HZRDS Red R 44.75 LH Titleist TSR-1 5/7 Woods LH Titleist TSR-1 23 Hybrid LH Titleist T200 7-48 - T350 6 Tensai AMT Red LH Titleist SM9 50-54-58 TT AMT Red LH Scotty Phantom X 7.5 RH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyScotland Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 Couldn't do without my 60 degree. I'm a 2.1 index playing a typical James Braid designed course with plateau greens guarded with bunkers. Barely a round passes without my having to use it on a flop shot or bunker shot. I don't keep stats but I reckon it must save me 30 -40 shots a season in up-and-downs. Trust in the loft and commit to the shot and you can't go far wrong. As for full shots - forget it! Haro 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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