Jump to content

Is the 60º wedge really that hard?


Recommended Posts

I've seen many posts where someone or other was quoted as saying that the average recreational player doesn't need such a lofted wedge.

Having experimented with the sixty since it was first introduced and eventually adopting it as a regular inclusion, I would opine that it depends on the sixty.

 

A low bounce sixty is for playing a somewhat skilled shot from forward in the stance.  

It's not a regular golf swing.  It has an exaggerated follow through and requires actually learning a specialty shot.  

I play the shot despite not being near scratch level, but I've played it for a long enough time to not get nervous or quit on it.

So maybe the low bounce sixty isn't for everybody.

 

A higher bounce sixty is played more like a regular wedge shot.

The ball is back in your stance.

Your hands are well in front, effectively delofting the club.

Once you get past the apprehension that you're swinging a little harder than you feel comfortable swinging for the length of the shot, it becomes just another club.

 

That's my take on the sixty.  If you don't play the sixty with bounce, it's mostly because it's not one of your 14 most needed clubs, not because it's particularly hard.

If you don't play the low bounce sixty, it's just because you're not interested in learning that shot or don't need it enough to worry about it.

Neither one is absolutely necessary to play with.  Either one can be played with practice.

 

  • Like 1

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Or maybe because:

  • you usually don't need that much loft, unless you play on a course with hazards everywhere around most greens
  • starting online is just easier with a lower lofted club because it's a shorter swing, e.g. a 9i vs a 60º
  • hitting thin with a 60º results in the worst outcome vs another loft (way long)
  • with a fluffy lie, the danger of going under the ball and hitting off the top of the face results in the worst outcome vs any other loft (way short) - often compounded because most players use a 60º when short sided going over a bunker, water, etc. that you're now in, defeating the original purpose

If you make your 60º your go to club for all chipping, and practice with it more than any other wedge, it could indeed be more versatile. That would lessen but not eliminate the mishit pitfalls. It is a harder club to get good at because of the high loft, no matter what bounce.

Because I have room in my 14 club limit, I carry a 60º low bounce (and a 56º high bounce) and I have had some great results with it when short sided, but I've had enough mishits that I won't use it unless it's the only choice. I use it less than once a round, a true special purpose club for me. YMMV

  • Like 4
  • Callaway Rogue 10.5° & 3W
  • Mizuno CLK 3H 19°, JPX900 Forged 4-GW, S18 56.10, S18 60.06
  • Evnroll ER5B ER2
  • Maxfli Tour Snell MTB-Black
  • Ping Pioneer - MGI Zip Navigator AT
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not all 60* wedges are the same.  

I've carried a 60 on and off over the years, and found the sole and bounce are key for me.  I do a little less well with the Tom Watson Scoring System 60*, it doesn't have a lot of bounce.  The Maltby Design 60* I got from GolfWorks is much better.  It has a low bounce angle, but a wider sole, which increases the effective bounce.  I've found it works well in chipping and the like.  

That said, I've found I can generally get away with even a moderately high bounce 56* with no higher lofts in my bag.  I'm able to open the club to do what I wish to for shorter shots, and use a form of the Pelz clock theory for short to mid range pitches.

I expect my results may not apply to all.  😉
 

  • Like 2

Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 10*, Aldila NV75 X, 43.5" -or- SpeedZone, HZRDUS Black 75 6.5, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, RIP Beta 90, 42" -or- Stage 2 Tour, NV105 X, 42.5"
2h or 3h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S -or- RIP Alpha 105 S
Irons:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft in progress, slowly); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 2-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R
GW: Dynacraft Dual Milled CNC 52*, Steelfiber 125 S; Scratch 8620 DS 53*, Steelfiber 125 S
SW:  Ram TG-898 56*, DGX ss2x; Ram Tom Watson 55*, DGX ss2x; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS; PM Grind 19 58*, stock shaft
Putter:  Mizuno TPM-2, 34"
Ball:  Wilson Staff Duo Professional, TM TP5

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

Not all 60* wedges are the same.  

I've carried a 60 on and off over the years, and found the sole and bounce are key for me.  I do a little less well with the Tom Watson Scoring System 60*, it doesn't have a lot of bounce.  The Maltby Design 60* I got from GolfWorks is much better.  It has a low bounce angle, but a wider sole, which increases the effective bounce.  I've found it works well in chipping and the like.  

That said, I've found I can generally get away with even a moderately high bounce 56* with no higher lofts in my bag.  I'm able to open the club to do what I wish to for shorter shots, and use a form of the Pelz clock theory for short to mid range pitches.

I expect my results may not apply to all.  😉
 

Agree. The 58/60 was a wedge I struggled with for a long time when I first started out and even up until maybe 5-6 years ago. I used it for full swings which was part of the problem. Second when I had lack of short game knowledge it was one that could easily be bladed or chunked when trying to chip and pitch with it.

Once I learned to stop full swinging it and how to use the bounce on shorter shots my results started to improve. Even more so when I stopped the ball back, hands forward method.

Once a person learns how to use the bounce of wedges it’s a game changer 

  • Like 4

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I keep it in my bag for sand. Vokey wedge. Also good for hacking out of tall grass or a blade edge strike out of the rough around the green. 

  • Like 1

@prilltx

Golf is challenging, R U doing the work...or hoping 4 different outcomes?

Titleist C16 irons

Vokey 55°, 60° wedges

Cleveland 50°, 46° wedges

Ping Sigma2 41 inch putter

Titleist D2 driver, 904 / 908 3 and 5 wood 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I carry a 50, 54, 60. It’s no more difficult to hit well than a driver. You have to learn the proper technique and practice, just like any club. 

  • Like 3

 

Driver:      :taylormade-small:  SIM2 Max 9° on Fujikura VENTUS Blue 5S

Fairway:   :taylormade-small:  M6 15°  On Matrix White Tie 

                  :mizuno-small: ST180 18° on MRC Fubuki 

                     :ping-small:  G425MAX  7  Flat on Fujikura VENTUS Blue 6s

                     :ping-small:  G425MAX  9  Flat on :ping-small: Alta CB 65R

Hybrid:     :ping-small:  G425MAX  6 H Flat on :ping-small: Alta CB 65R

Irons:     :ping-small:  i 500 7-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :vokey-small: SM8 50°, 54° & 60° on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: Studio Style Newport 1.5

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X :taylormade-small: TP5x 

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:  

Range Finder: :918457628_PrecisionPro: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/4/2021 at 8:08 AM, NRJyzr said:

Not all 60* wedges are the same.  

I've carried a 60 on and off over the years, and found the sole and bounce are key for me.  I do a little less well with the Tom Watson Scoring System 60*, it doesn't have a lot of bounce.  The Maltby Design 60* I got from GolfWorks is much better.  It has a low bounce angle, but a wider sole, which increases the effective bounce.  I've found it works well in chipping and the like.  

That said, I've found I can generally get away with even a moderately high bounce 56* with no higher lofts in my bag.  I'm able to open the club to do what I wish to for shorter shots, and use a form of the Pelz clock theory for short to mid range pitches.

I expect my results may not apply to all.  😉
 

Agree that not all 60º wedges are the same.  I struggled in the past, but the sole grind makes all the difference for me.  My goto club around the green is my 60º Callaway PM Grind designed by Roger Cleveland for Phil Mickelson.  It has a C-grind sole that allows me to hit the 12º bounce club off tight lies.  Like any club, it takes practice to hit it consistently.  When I head to the range to practice, I always hit pitch shot to the pitching green and hit chip shots off the fringe onto the putting green.

So, my answer is No... if you have the right 60º for the job and practice any shot you would use it for on the course.  If you don't practice, of course it's hard... but so is the driver!

  • Like 2

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m not sure the reasoning you give for carrying a 60 jives with your contrary take on the advice that people give against carrying one. 

You said that you need to play a 60 differently from other clubs. Sometimes forward, or sometimes back, forward presses, delofted, exaggerated follow throughs, etc.… I don’t know, it just doesn’t seem like the kind of thing the average player needs to learn when a 56 or even a PW and 8 iron and a basic balanced setup would do just as well for 99% of shots around the greens the average golfer plays on.

Also it’s rare to find any 60 degree wedges anymore with less than 8 degrees of bounce anyway. They are mostly stock at higher bounces nowadays.

I think the advise is pretty good honestly. To be fair, I now stop at 57 as of last year. I haven’t yet encountered any shots I thought I more loft would have made a better result.

 

  • Like 1

:ping-small: g400 lst

:callaway-small: x2 hot pro 17* :taylormade-small:M4 22* hybrid

New Level PF-2 p-7, 902 6-5

:taylormade-small: hi-toe 51* and 57*

:mizuno-small: M Craft IV

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I play a 58, but even then, rarely use it. Mainly for greenside bunkers, high lofted lob shots (probably 1 every 2 rounds) and that’s about it. Use the 54 for most other things. Saying that, I wouldn’t take it out in place of anything. 

  • Like 2

Driver: Titleist TSi2 10 / Mitsubishi Tensei AV Blue Raw 65 S

3 Wood: Titleist TSi3 15 / Project X RDX Smoke Black 70 6.0

Hybrid: Titleist TSi3 18 / Fujikura Atmos HB Tour Spec Red 7 S

4 Iron: Titleist U500 / Graphite Design Tour AD DI 85 S

5 - 9 Irons: Mizuno 921 Tour / Nippon Modus 3 120 S

Wedges: Titleist Vokey SM7 46F, 50F, 54S & 58M / Nippon Modus Wedge 115

Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport Select (2016) / BGT Stability Tour

Ball: Srixon Z Star XV

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you think hitting a 69* wedge is hard, wait until you try a 64*. I have both. I'm rather good with the 60*, but the 64* for some reason takes about twice as much work to get the hang of it. Same make and model, just much harder to use the 64*. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

If you think hitting a 60* wedge is hard, wait until you try a 64*. I have both. I'm rather good with the 60*, but the 64* for some reason takes about twice as much work to get the hang of it. Same make and model, just much harder to use the 64*. 

I'm at the moment gaming a 62 which has been in and out of my bag, depending on the other wedges being bagged.

Hitting a hard full shot with it is dicey, that much I can verify.  I've in fact stopped trying.

Little greenside lobs seem to be similar to a 60°, though.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There was a time I could not hit a 60' to save my life.  Now my 60' is a part of my 14. 

1) It is amazing how easy it is to hit once you take lessons,

2) understand what the instructor is saying and

3) learn to execute those instructions.

I feel 1,2 and 3 are the keys to playing golf well.  Learning to play with siblings and friends is great but lessons with 5-6 hours of practice per lesson is such a key.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a 60/12 Callaway PM Grind in my bag. I use it in deeper sand traps and those tricky shots over a sand trap onto the green. The higher toe wedge took me a bit to get use to but I love the club. 

  • Like 1

Bassbeamer 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very interesting topic. I am a 12. I have 50, 56, 60 in my bag. I play public and private. So 56 is 14 bounce and 60 is 8 bounce. It has worked really well for me. However I find as I am getting better opening the face… the 60 is used less and less. What’s the strategy difference between those that carry a 52or54&58 vs 56&60?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had one once, a Vokey about 25 years ago and I liked it but now my gap in the bag has shifted to the top end due to my age. I am comfortable using my 56, 52, and 48 degree wedges.

Cobra F9 driver and 3 wood, Mitsubishi Tensei CK Blue regular flex 60 shafts in both. PXG 5 wood, Diamana S+ regular flex 60 shaft. Ben Hogan 4-PW irons, regular flex Recoil shafts, 70g. Ben Hogan Equalizer wedges, 48, 52, and 56 degrees, Recoil shafts. Scotty Cameron Futura 5S putter. Ping Pioneer bag. Garmin G80 range finder. Maxfli tour golf balls. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m an old fart and grew up 100 yrs before utility wedges … I was taught to open my sand wedge varying degrees or bump & run a choked down 8 iron. I bought a 60* 2 yrs ago and love it because it doesn’t release as much from 20 yds in … or just drop in a full 50 yd shot. The biggest issue I have is the impulse to have my hands in front of the ball which de-lofts the club. Keep in mind that I do not have enough head speed to stop short pitches, but I have developed a feel for gauging the small release I get. Does that make sense? I do believe the key is a bounce that fits your course’s firmness and your swing. I’ve tried 60s I can’t hit well. But maybe that’s just because I took the time to get comfortable with my Calloway PM grind … a club I’ve never seen anyone else using 🥴

Edited by B_R_A_D_Y
  • Like 2

:titelist-small: TSi3 #1-3-5 all with Tensi Blue S-flex

:callaway-small: 2019 Apex Pro black 3 & 4H Catalyst 70 or    

:titelist-small: TSi3 #2-3 depending on how I’m playing. Tensi Blue

:callaway-small: 2019 Calloway Apex Pro black, 5-PW, Catalyst 100 - 6.0, Super Stroker Jumbo   

:cobra-small:  2020 RadSpeed OL 4H, 5-GW … won’t get to actually use till warmer weather

:callaway-small: 2019 PM-grind, 56° & 60°, KBS steel, Green Cap

:taylormade-small: Blue Spider EX

:titelist-small: Pro V1X

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/2/2021 at 11:37 AM, Middler said:

If you make your 60º your go to club for all chipping, and practice with it more than any other wedge, it could indeed be more versatile. That would lessen but not eliminate the mishit pitfalls. It is a harder club to get good at because of the high loft, no matter what bounce.

 

... When I first started playing I hit waaaaaaay too many bad shots with my 60* so I was deterred to make it my go to club around the green and used it for every shot. I figured once I became proficient using it, I would develop other shots like 8i bump and runs. After 2 years of constant use and even more practice I became very efficient using only my LW and never did go to other shots. Served me well for 35 years in the soft midwest conditions but moving to the hard fast desert courses in Phoenix with Bermuda grass, that philosophy came back to haunt me. Sticky Bermuda grain has grabbed the leading edge when hitting a millimeter behind the ball, which would be fine back in Chicago but actually stops the clubbed like ABS brakes. Grain also makes high lofted pitches either release down grain or grab into the grain, something a low running chip does not have to deal with. It has taken me a year but I am getting much better at a variety of shots around the green. So where you play can have as much effect as how you play when using a LW.

... My experience teaching and playing with higher index golfers is they don't have the trust or feel required to use a LW. Taking a longer swing and blading a LW over the green leaves scar tissue and the LW almost demands longer swings than most Am's are comfortable making. Obviously having the right bounce for the conditions you play or the shots you like to hit is very important, but the margin for error is so great for high and some mid index players and if they don't practice like they are on tour, a LW is probably best left out of the bag. And while taking longer swings with short shots, full shots are almost always better with 1/2 or 3/4 swings. I can hit the ball farther with a 3/4 swing than I can taking a LW to parallel. It is a unique club in that those using it well don't see any problem with a LW and those using it poorly curse it's very existence. 

... I played with a low index senior golfer a few weeks ago that surprised me by using a "chipper" around the green. He was very good with it and again showed me why they make so many different clubs that can all do the same thing. 

  • Like 8

Driver:   TaylorMade SIM2 Max 10.5* ... Diamana Ltd 60R
Fairway:  TaylorMade SIM2 Max 15* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
                 TaylorMade SIM2 Max 18* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
Utility:   TaylorMade DHy 19* ... Diamana Ltd 65R
              Taylor Made Sim Hybrid 22* ... Diamana Ltd 75R
Irons:    4-Pw Cobra King Tour MIM ... Steelfiber 95R
Wedges:  Cobra Snakebite 50* ... Steelfiber 95R
                 TaylorMade MG3 58* LB ... Steelfiber 95R
Putter:  Cleveland Hunting Beach Soft 11S 33.5"
Ball:      TaylorMade TP5x (2021)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Carried a 60 for many years but never felt comfortable with the club. I could hit it but just did not like the outcome. Had the 52/56/60 combo but then went to 50/54/58 to better align with my PW loft. My 58 is my go to club 90 yard and in for most shots.

:cobra-small: Fly Z+ Aldila DVS

Golfsmith Jet Stream 3W UST V2

:titelist-small: 915 H3 Diamana

:titelist-small: 915 H4 Diamana

:benhogan-small: Apex Edge Pro Apex 4

:titelist-small: Vokey SM6 50F/54S/58S

:titelist-small: Studio Design 2.5/:cleveland-small: Huntington Beach 11S

:titelist-small: Pro V1x

:skycaddie:

Bag Boy Chiller

Bag Boy Quad XL

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've carried a 60 on and off. I have found my best results--sand, anything requiring finesse around the green, shorties from the secondary fringe when short sided can be accomplished better with a 58 degree with 10-12 degrees of bounce.  Have left too many in the greenside sand with the 60 !

My best, favorite and current setup:  Callaway Jaws 50/10, 54/10, 58/12.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not if you practice, and not if you get the right grind.  That being said less loft is usually less risky, I prefer a 58*, with some bounce, with my technique, 60* is just overkill.  I find it hard to get the ball to the hole, and I find 58* to be plenty of loft for almost all situations.  

 

In my mind commit to a lob wedge somewhere between 57 and 62*. make sure your gapping is good for your swing and that it's good from 50 yards in.  Err on the side of less loft.  

  • Like 1

Ping G400

Ping G410 3,5,7

JPX 921 Hotmetal

Vokey 54, 58M

Odyssey #1 black
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...