adapting to an iron shaft that is too flexible

[NC Golfer]

Just bought the XL halo hybrid irons in a Sr shaft and I am coming from a much stiffer shaft. I am a sr golfer with a slower swing speed. When I hit the ball well, I get a high and perfect shot. It's effortless. But, it is very inconsistent. Also, there's not much feel to it. Should I be swinging slower or any other tips? As a sr golfer, I know I will grow into these clubs. Just looking for some more immediate success. 

[cnosil]

Shaft fitting is more than I have X swing speed so I should use this stiffness of shaft.  When you swing a club you apply forces throughout the swing which cause the shaft to bend.  Fitting looks at this and determines the profile that works fiesta for you.  In the shaft work there isn’t any consistent measurement across the board so a senior flex from one manufacturer may be a regular in another.  You may even find that to be true across different models made by the same manufacturer.   
 

you say some conflicting things:  “When I hit the ball well, I get a high and perfect shot. It's effortless. But, it is very inconsistent. “.   Are you saying that when you make a good swing that the ball flight is good and when you don’t make a good swing the flight isn’t as good?  If so,  that is what we all struggle with.  No one; including professionals hit the ball perfectly every time.  To get better a ball striking lessons would be the recommendation.  
 

you mention “feel”.  Feel is a subjective thing and I don’t know what you expect to feel when you swing a club.  Some player feel the head and the shaft while others feel very little.  The clubs weighting and shaft profile all impact how a club feels.

when you purchased these clubs how did you determine if they were correct for your swing?  Did you just buy them off the rack or hit them on a launch monitor with no comparison to your current clubs or other head/shaft configurations ?

 

[NC Golfer]

9 hours ago, cnosil said:

Shaft fitting is more than I have X swing speed so I should use this stiffness of shaft.  When you swing a club you apply forces throughout the swing which cause the shaft to bend.  Fitting looks at this and determines the profile that works fiesta for you.  In the shaft work there isn’t any consistent measurement across the board so a senior flex from one manufacturer may be a regular in another.  You may even find that to be true across different models made by the same manufacturer.   
 

you say some conflicting things:  “When I hit the ball well, I get a high and perfect shot. It's effortless. But, it is very inconsistent. “.   Are you saying that when you make a good swing that the ball flight is good and when you don’t make a good swing the flight isn’t as good?  If so,  that is what we all struggle with.  No one; including professionals hit the ball perfectly every time.  To get better a ball striking lessons would be the recommendation.  
 

you mention “feel”.  Feel is a subjective thing and I don’t know what you expect to feel when you swing a club.  Some player feel the head and the shaft while others feel very little.  The clubs weighting and shaft profile all impact how a club feels.

when you purchased these clubs how did you determine if they were correct for your swing?  Did you just buy them off the rack or hit them on a launch monitor with no comparison to your current clubs or other head/shaft configurations ?

 

cnosil,

Thanks, for the reply and questions! Regarding my conflicting comments. Yes, some of this is a result of poor ball striking. We all say a pured shot feels great and a not so great shot feels worse and have bad results. Maybe, it will just take more time to get more consistent. As I remember, in my prior gen Cleveland hybrid irons, it took a few months. We all have high hopes with new clubs and after dropping 900 bucks. 

I made this decision off a few swings at a demo day. I did bring my old clubs for a comparision. In hind sight, working with a launch monitor would have been better. But, it wasn't available at the demo day and the golf galaxy where I made the purchase has a launch monitor; but, didn't have both the regular and senior shafts to compare them.

I figured worse case scenario I will eventually need a sr shaft.  It feels like I am a slow swinger. Again, no launch monitor to qualify this. However, my 5 iron goes 140-150 yards, another indication, I thought, it was time for a sr shaft. 

With that said, maybe someone will have a suggestion on a swing change to adapt to a more flexible shaft. I am not adding expense to these clubs to fix them right away.

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by NC Golfer

[Kenny B]

15 hours ago, NC Golfer said:

Just bought the XL halo hybrid irons in a Sr shaft and I am coming from a much stiffer shaft. I am a sr golfer with a slower swing speed. When I hit the ball well, I get a high and perfect shot. It's effortless. But, it is very inconsistent. Also, there's not much feel to it. Should I be swinging slower or any other tips? As a sr golfer, I know I will grow into these clubs. Just looking for some more immediate success. 

I am a slow swinger as well, so I know what you are going through with the iron change.  Not knowing what the clubs and specs are for your previous irons, it's difficult to say if the senior flex is a problem.  It's also possible that the XL Halos are very much lighter than your other clubs; the Halos have a 59g Project X Cypher stock graphite shaft.  It's a decent shaft.  If your previous clubs had a much stiffer shaft, they were likely quite a bit heavier.  It does take getting used to light clubs when you have been swinging heavier clubs.

A heavier club tends to smooth out the transition to the downswing, whereas light clubs will cause sequencing issues until you get used to them.  Getting out of sequence in transition is a problem for many amateur golfers.  Pros and most low handicap golfers can swing a senior flex or even an L flex club reasonably well because they get their arms and body sequenced properly.  They know what that feels like.  Amateurs just get lucky once in awhile; that's when you see the great shot.

To answer your question; never swing slower... unless it's a drill.  Swing correctly.

I'm going through a similar change as well.  This is not a plug (OK, maybe a little), but if you look up Monte Scheinblum on Instagram, he has great stuff posted every day about this problem and many other swing issues and how to fix them.  I've taken lessons from him, and he is a great teacher and a wealth of information.  Give him a follow; costs nothing, but his videos are gold and very reasonably priced IMO.

[peteco]

15 hours ago, NC Golfer said:

cnosil,

Thanks, for the reply and questions! Regarding my conflicting comments. Yes, some of this is a result of poor ball striking. We all say a pured shot feels great and a not so great shot feels worse and have bad results. Maybe, it will just take more time to get more consistent. As I remember, in my prior gen Cleveland hybrid irons, it took a few months. We all have high hopes with new clubs and after dropping 900 bucks. 

I made this decision off a few swings at a demo day. I did bring my old clubs for a comparision. In hind sight, working with a launch monitor would have been better. But, it wasn't available at the demo day and the golf galaxy where I made the purchase has a launch monitor; but, didn't have both the regular and senior shafts to compare them.

I figured worse case scenario I will eventually need a sr shaft.  It feels like I am a slow swinger. Again, no launch monitor to qualify this. However, my 5 iron goes 140-150 yards, another indication, I thought, it was time for a sr shaft. 

With that said, maybe someone will have a suggestion on a swing change to adapt to a more flexible shaft. I am not adding expense to these clubs to fix them right away.
 

Like you I am going from heavy, steel shaft, regular flex shaft irons to lighter, graphite, senior flex irons. Like you, my 5 iron distance is about 140 or so yards. My biggest problem with the new irons is I am pulling them left most of the time (right handed clubs). I struggle with over the top swing, but I have that under much better control now. I pay much closer attention to club face angle, but still pull it, not as much as before, but it is still there. So is it the weight, the shaft, me, all of the above???

[Kenny B]

7 hours ago, peteco said:

23 hours ago, NC Golfer said:

cnosil,

Thanks, for the reply and questions! Regarding my conflicting comments. Yes, some of this is a result of poor ball striking. We all say a pured shot feels great and a not so great shot feels worse and have bad results. Maybe, it will just take more time to get more consistent. As I remember, in my prior gen Cleveland hybrid irons, it took a few months. We all have high hopes with new clubs and after dropping 900 bucks. 

I made this decision off a few swings at a demo day. I did bring my old clubs for a comparision. In hind sight, working with a launch monitor would have been better. But, it wasn't available at the demo day and the golf galaxy where I made the purchase has a launch monitor; but, didn't have both the regular and senior shafts to compare them.

I figured worse case scenario I will eventually need a sr shaft.  It feels like I am a slow swinger. Again, no launch monitor to qualify this. However, my 5 iron goes 140-150 yards, another indication, I thought, it was time for a sr shaft. 

With that said, maybe someone will have a suggestion on a swing change to adapt to a more flexible shaft. I am not adding expense to these clubs to fix them right away.
 

Like you I am going from heavy, steel shaft, regular flex shaft irons to lighter, graphite, senior flex irons. Like you, my 5 iron distance is about 140 or so yards. My biggest problem with the new irons is I am pulling them left most of the time (right handed clubs). I struggle with over the top swing, but I have that under much better control now. I pay much closer attention to club face angle, but still pull it, not as much as before, but it is still there. So is it the weight, the shaft, me, all of the above???

My guess, and it's only a guess without seeing your swing, is that it's you.  94.2% of high handicap golfers have an OTT move at the top of their backswing.  You say it's better, but not what you did to make it better.  Likely it's still there, and the degree of which it's a problem depends on many factors.  

Going from heavy to lighter clubs will make it worse because the clubs feel so light that your first move in the downswing has less resistance, so it's easier to turn the shoulders first and pull left.  When starting the downswing, focus on trying to keep your back to the target as long as you can.  Try not to rotate until your arms are parallel.  Do this in slow motion.  It will take time to get used to the feel of lighter clubs.  Don't rush it.

[NC Golfer]

On 10/8/2021 at 11:39 PM, Kenny B said:

I am a slow swinger as well, so I know what you are going through with the iron change.  Not knowing what the clubs and specs are for your previous irons, it's difficult to say if the senior flex is a problem.  It's also possible that the XL Halos are very much lighter than your other clubs; the Halos have a 59g Project X Cypher stock graphite shaft.  It's a decent shaft.  If your previous clubs had a much stiffer shaft, they were likely quite a bit heavier.  It does take getting used to light clubs when you have been swinging heavier clubs.

A heavier club tends to smooth out the transition to the downswing, whereas light clubs will cause sequencing issues until you get used to them.  Getting out of sequence in transition is a problem for many amateur golfers.  Pros and most low handicap golfers can swing a senior flex or even an L flex club reasonably well because they get their arms and body sequenced properly.  They know what that feels like.  Amateurs just get lucky once in awhile; that's when you see the great shot.

To answer your question; never swing slower... unless it's a drill.  Swing correctly.

I'm going through a similar change as well.  This is not a plug (OK, maybe a little), but if you look up Monte Scheinblum on Instagram, he has great stuff posted every day about this problem and many other swing issues and how to fix them.  I've taken lessons from him, and he is a great teacher and a wealth of information.  Give him a follow; costs nothing, but his videos are gold and very reasonably priced IMO.

 

Thanks, Kenny. You'r reply is spot on. My previous shaft in the HB3 was an R Shaft Action Ultralite 65g. Years ago, I met a a club maker at a demo day and he said get rid of those things. They were heavy and not flexible.  So, the new halo's are definitely lighter and also more flexible. My sequencing is definitely off. I know what to do, one piece takeaway and swing from the ground up, I just can't execute it. I'm familiar with Monte and will take another look at his content.

Edited October 11, 2021 by NC Golfer

[RickyBobby_PR]

On 10/8/2021 at 6:00 PM, NC Golfer said:

With that said, maybe someone will have a suggestion on a swing change to adapt to a more flexible shaft. I am not adding expense to these clubs to fix them right away.

 

Nobody would recommend changing a swing to fit a shaft/club. The recommendation would be to go get fit to the right shaft/club. 
 

That then becomes a larger rabbit hole of issues including one trying to figure out if the bad or worse result is the club or swing change or both.

This is the downside of the mindset of flex ratings on shafts. As it was mentioned there’s no industry standard on flex or other things like torque. Same for weight stampings a 6 stiff in one brand may be 63g while it may be 69g in another brand. The weight and profile of the shaft are more important than flex. Even just looking at shafts that are tip stiff as an example. Shafts from different companies can be tip stiff but without knowing the measurements of each or the material or layers of material one can’t say x is stiffer than y or vice versa 
 

[NC Golfer]

6 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Nobody would recommend changing a swing to fit a shaft/club. The recommendation would be to go get fit to the right shaft/club. 
 

That then becomes a larger rabbit hole of issues including one trying to figure out if the bad or worse result is the club or swing change or both.

This is the downside of the mindset of flex ratings on shafts. As it was mentioned there’s no industry standard on flex or other things like torque. Same for weight stampings a 6 stiff in one brand may be 63g while it may be 69g in another brand. The weight and profile of the shaft are more important than flex. Even just looking at shafts that are tip stiff as an example. Shafts from different companies can be tip stiff but without knowing the measurements of each or the material or layers of material one can’t say x is stiffer than y or vice versa 
 

Thanks, Ricky. Good point, there's a lot of factors on this and the smart thing to do was to get fit. I am too late for that. I thought it would be an easy choice just upgrading to a new version of the Cleveland hybrid iron club. But, what I chose are worlds apart from a previous gen. It's getting better with each time out. There's hope. 

It's funny when I see used clubs for sale, often they have stiff shafts. So, there are golfers making a bad decision in the other direction.

Edited October 11, 2021 by NC Golfer

[Kenny B]

10 hours ago, NC Golfer said:

 

Thanks, Kenny. You'r reply is spot on. My previous shaft in the HB3 was an R Shaft Action Ultralite 65g. Years ago, I met a a club maker at a demo day and he said get rid of those things. They were heavy and not flexible.  So, the new halo's are definitely lighter and also more flexible. My sequencing is definitely off. I know what to do, one piece takeaway and swing from the ground up, I just can't execute it. I'm familiar with Monte and will take another look at his content.

Just FYI... Monte told me that the "one piece takeaway" is garbage and an awful cliche.  His preference is to have the wrists set so the club is 90º to the left arm parallel; wrists have to move earlier than when using one piece takeaway.  His latest two videos, No-Turn Cast and BroomForce emphasizes starting the downswing by "casting" to 8 o'clock (releasing the vertical hinge in the wrists), then rotating through impact which releases the horizontal hinge in the wrists.  

Since I went through the lightweight club change, I know that it's very easy to start rotating BEFORE the arms start moving toward impact.  Bad things happen that way!  Starting the arms moving sooner (casting behind you) and keeping your back to the target longer, helps synch up the golf swing... provides more power!

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 hours ago, NC Golfer said:

It's funny when I see used clubs for sale, often they have stiff shafts. So, there are golfers making a bad decision in the other direction.

Not really. Stiff shafts are probably the most common flex bought bu golfers and there’s lots of golfers who upgrade frequently. Assuming it’s them moving in from a bad choice if flex isn’t a safe bet. It could even be moving on from the design of the club whether it be to much bounce or not enough, spin or launch doesn’t fit their need. Way too many reasons for people to move on to assume it’s for a bad decision on flex

[RickyBobby_PR]

8 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

Just FYI... Monte told me that the "one piece takeaway" is garbage and an awful cliche.  His preference is to have the wrists set so the club is 90º to the left arm parallel; wrists have to move earlier than when using one piece takeaway.  His latest two videos, No-Turn Cast and BroomForce emphasizes starting the downswing by "casting" to 8 o'clock (releasing the vertical hinge in the wrists), then rotating through impact which releases the horizontal hinge in the wrists.  

Since I went through the lightweight club change, I know that it's very easy to start rotating BEFORE the arms start moving toward impact.  Bad things happen that way!  Starting the arms moving sooner (casting behind you) and keeping your back to the target longer, helps synch up the golf swing... provides more power!

The one piece takeaway vs not is an interesting topic on the swing. Lots of people teach it like GG, AMG, Meandmygolf, Adam Porzak to name a few. They all pretty much teach too that wrists should set early in the swing and it’s basically how club gets to club parallel aka p2. From there the wrists don’t need any more set and it’s a fold of the trail arm and finish rotation.

Most amateurs including myself as guilty of 1) not understanding proper wrist movement 2) how to set them 3) set them to late. All lead typically over swings, collapsing trail arms and from there it’s almost hope and pray the swing works

[dlow206]

Did you get the normal build or the "accuracy" build that Cleveland offers? The normal build is actually counterbalanced, they put I think an 8 gram weight in the butt of the shaft. Also, the Halo XL at the normal build are a bit longer in length than a standard men's set. 

[Kenny B]

42 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The one piece takeaway vs not is an interesting topic on the swing. Lots of people teach it like GG, AMG, Meandmygolf, Adam Porzak to name a few. They all pretty much teach too that wrists should set early in the swing and it’s basically how club gets to club parallel aka p2. From there the wrists don’t need any more set and it’s a fold of the trail arm and finish rotation.

Most amateurs including myself as guilty of 1) not understanding proper wrist movement 2) how to set them 3) set them to late. All lead typically over swings, collapsing trail arms and from there it’s almost hope and pray the swing works

Agreed.  I think Monte was trying to emphasize an early wrist set for me because I did the one-piece takeaway for so many years for Moe Norman's single plane swing, and I never set my wrists as much as I should by the time I reach top of backswing.  I still have trouble with that.  I don't over swing; if anything I under swing and don't rotate as much as Monte would like to see.  Think an old, slow Jon Rahm swing without much wrist set!!  

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 minute ago, Kenny B said:

Agreed.  I think Monte was trying to emphasize an early wrist set for me because I did the one-piece takeaway for so many years for Moe Norman's single plane swing, and I never set my wrists as much as I should by the time I reach top of backswing.  I still have trouble with that.  I don't over swing; if anything I under swing and don't rotate as much as Monte would like to see.  Think an old, slow Jon Rahm swing without much wrist set!!  

Makes sense. Setting early is pretty consistent thought I’ve seen in numerous instructors over the last year of learning more about swing. Between club parallel and lead arm parallel is where pretty much the thought. Club parallel form what I seen is where they all suggest where to do it. They teach it in different ways. I know when I set early ala Monte ntc or his efficient swing I see much better swings

[NC Golfer]

52 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

Did you get the normal build or the "accuracy" build that Cleveland offers? The normal build is actually counterbalanced, they put I think an 8 gram weight in the butt of the shaft. Also, the Halo XL at the normal build are a bit longer in length than a standard men's set. 

I got them as plus 1/2 inch. Same as my HB3's. They are about the same lenghth. I am told it has the counter balance weights. I will know for sure when I regrip.

[Firebird]

Shaft weight and stiffness makes very little difference. In fact most golfers would not know the difference. Here is a video that compares shafts.

 

At the end of the day the general consensuses is it all comes down to feel and confidence. I have 4 different shafts for my Driver - Regular 65G, Stiff 65G, Stiff 100G and X Stiff 65G. The only one that I usually feel the difference is the 100G.

[dlow206]

20 minutes ago, Firebird said:

Shaft weight and stiffness makes very little difference. In fact most golfers would not know the difference. Here is a video that compares shafts.

 

At the end of the day the general consensuses is it all comes down to feel and confidence. I have 4 different shafts for my Driver - Regular 65G, Stiff 65G, Stiff 100G and X Stiff 65G. The only one that I usually feel the difference is the 100G.

Completely disagree that shaft weight doesn't matter. I play shafts normally in the 90 gram range for irons. If I were to play 130 gram shafts, and you gave me 5 shots to hit, they probably would be ok. But over the course of a round, I will get tired and my swing will suffer with that heavy of a shaft. 

[NC Golfer]

It's getting better with the senior shaft. Starting to be more consistent. But, the shots are very high. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, NC Golfer said:

It's getting better with the senior shaft. Starting to be more consistent. But, the shots are very high. 

Do they reach the apex then balloon up and drop out of the sky?

High or even very high isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Is launch and spin are in right zone apex and descent angle will be fine.

Too many amateurs dont hit the ball high enough especially those with slower swing speeds.

but without any numbers very high means nothing other than what you are perceiving and could be a result of you making a swing to get the irons to work and thus making compensations. If that’s happen the end result will be not optimal 

[NC Golfer]

4 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Do they reach the apex then balloon up and drop out of the sky?

High or even very high isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Is launch and spin are in right zone apex and descent angle will be fine.

Too many amateurs dont hit the ball high enough especially those with slower swing speeds.

but without any numbers very high means nothing other than what you are perceiving and could be a result of you making a swing to get the irons to work and thus making compensations. If that’s happen the end result will be not optimal 

It's hard to say, just noticebly higher compared to my previous irons (HB's.) Yes, not a bad thing, if there's no huge distance loss. It will hold the greens better.

[revkev]

1 hour ago, NC Golfer said:

It's getting better with the senior shaft. Starting to be more consistent. But, the shots are very high. 

I'm going to jump in here.  Most of the time what we think is high, really isn't at all, in fact it's often not a high enough launch. Also the advice that came earlier, about flex and weight of a shaft not being important was debatable at best - shaft weight is extremely important for most golfers.  

 

In the end its really impossible for anyone here to give sound advice because we haven't seen you swing and we don't know what your numbers are.  If you can't or won't get on a trackman my best advice would be to just keep working on it - how does the ball react when it comes down?  How does the ball react on shots into the wind?  Are you able to control your trajectory with them?  What's the shot shape like on good strikes compared to your old irons?  Have you ever taken lessons?  Would you take lessons?  

 

Those are all questions that need to be answered in order to be truly helpful and even then while there are some knowledgeable people in this thread we aren't teachers.  I'm reading stuff about setting wrists - the last two teachers that I have had have never mentioned that - perhaps I do it well but I think it's because they expect the wrists to set as a result of other things that are happening in the swing.

 

Good luck.

 

 

[Chip Strokes]

if anyone wants to know what a high ball flight looks like, i invite you to come play a round with me 

i promise you that a PW at 170’ in the air is a sight to behold 

[chisag]

17 hours ago, revkev said:

I'm going to jump in here.  Most of the time what we think is high, really isn't at all, in fact it's often not a high enough launch.

 

... So true Rev. It is almost impossible to hit the ball too high. Obviously excessive spin will cause ballooning but anyone that has played with someone averaging over 300yds off the tee knows how high these guys hit the ball. Their angle of descent is not as steep as one would think as they still get plenty of roll on hard desert fairways but also max carry on the soft fairways so win-win. I played with a guy averaging around 340 off the tee and he hit the ball so high I would lose it in flight. First hole is a 360 yd par 4 and I saw it take off and lost it about halfway in flight but it was easy to spot in the green side bunker. He hit a 3 iron from 255 over a par 5 green and he was mad he didn't hit his 4 iron   I hit my driver pretty high but his 3 iron was even higher. 

[BostonSal]

Phoe-sag/aftra  [just doing a little updating] is citing yardages that I obviously don't need to worry about.  

Is the game still fun when you get too good?

I'm grateful to play on a course built in the hickory shaft era without significant room for expansion.

The 1906 yardages are perfect for my 2021 weary ass.

My trajectory seems ok so somebody recommended the right shafts for my new irons.

[Firebird]

23 hours ago, dlow206 said:

Completely disagree that shaft weight doesn't matter. I play shafts normally in the 90 gram range for irons. If I were to play 130 gram shafts, and you gave me 5 shots to hit, they probably would be ok. But over the course of a round, I will get tired and my swing will suffer with that heavy of a shaft. 

True, but I doubt you would know the difference if it was a 75g shaft. 

[dlow206]

2 hours ago, Firebird said:

True, but I doubt you would know the difference if it was a 75g shaft. 

Maybe, maybe not. I can definitely tell a difference between the heft of my wife's clubs vs. my clubs. She has 65 gram shafts in hers and 95 gram in mine, about the same weight grips, and the clubheads should be in the same weight realm. But I can generally play lighter shafts better than heavier, and i probably could hit her clubs fine even though they are lighter and a much softer flex. 

[chisag]

On 10/14/2021 at 2:21 PM, Firebird said:

Shaft weight and stiffness makes very little difference. In fact most golfers would not know the difference. Here is a video that compares shafts.

 

At the end of the day the general consensuses is it all comes down to feel and confidence. I have 4 different shafts for my Driver - Regular 65G, Stiff 65G, Stiff 100G and X Stiff 65G. The only one that I usually feel the difference is the 100G.

 

... Like everything pertaining to the crazy game, shafts are very personal. So much goes into it like late release or early release or no release? For someone casting, flex is basically irrelevant and an argument can be made for x-stiff in everything like Karsten surmised as an engineer and not a golfer. Same theory behind the Nunchuk 100gm ultra stiff driver shafts. The Nunchuk was the most consistent shaft I ever hit on Demo day at the PGA Show but again standing in one spot and grooving a driver is not the same as playing 18 holes and it didn't work as well actually playing golf. 

... Consistent players that have a hitting or swinging motion will usually find a pretty big difference as well. The story of Fred Couples finding a 3 wood in Toms Watsons trunk that had a shaft with no designation on it and reportedly a L-Flex that he was just killing thinking it was an X-flex until Watson told him it was a R-flex is a good one. After learning it was "way too soft" for him Freddie couldn't hit it anymore. Yea, this game isn't mental at all but shows a swinger can hit a softer flex shaft effectively. At around 95+ and a smooth swinger I play R-Flex in my driver and fw woods but play S-flex in my irons. (currently playing Steelfiber i95's in R-flex that is the same as most other S-flex irons shafts). I can also play softer flexes but not stiffer flexes*. A hitter will most likely find the opposite and play S-flex or even X-flex regardless of swing speed and will usually suffer with R/A flex shafts. 


* in my last Taylor Made iron fitting and judging by my age at 68, my fitter started with 65gm A-flex and I hit them short as in 10-15yds! and offline. We progressed through heavier weights and stiffer flexes until we hit the sweet spot with 95gm R-flex shafts. Going to S-flex and heavier weights my distance started decreasing and my trajectory started to drop as well. It also felt like too much work so we had our answer, which I already knew but wanted the fitter to come to his own conclusions. 

I love to try new driver shafts but the Diamana LTD R-flex I was playing in my Sim could not be improved in a Sim2. We tried quite a few shafts and none were as good for distant and diversion. Just goes to show when you find something that really works well for your swing, it is pretty tough to beat it with a fitting and dam near impossible by trial and error.